7 ms·

When I made another Monkey Island

460 points by sabas_ge 4y ago

Sharlin 4y ago
"When you have fans like this, who needs haters?"
- technovader 4y ago
  He's being a baby here. There's a proper way to take criticism from a passionate fanbase of 20+ years. IMO the criticism is absolutely justified, just from looking at the screenshots and trailer.
  - Sharlin 4y ago
    His response seems entirely reasonable, and some grumpiness is definitely expected from someone whose domain is literally grumpygamer.com. As a fan of the originals, I also see nothing wrong with the art style of the new game.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    The way my mind understands this as actions across the passage of time: 1. Ron created the games back then 2. People played the games back then. Some people absolutely loved the games and had a profound impact on them 3. 20+ years of life happened to Ron and those who played and loved the games. During that time, great distortions occur: nostalgia, rose-coloured glasses, older memories become shinier memories 4. Ron decides to make sequel based on who he is now 5. Step 3 causes fear of the ruin of a legacy and tainting of protected childhood memories (cough Star Wars cough). This is the present. 6a. Game is released 6b. Some hardcore fans love it, some hardcore fans hate it. As it ever was. And specifically to this comment: >There's a proper way to take criticism from a passionate fanbase of 20+ years. There's some kind of ridiculous level of entitlement in dictating how an artist should take criticism. Were I to have any say in it, I'd dictate this: Fucking ignore it and be true to your own creative vision. After all, that's the same way the magic has been created previously.
darkerside 4y ago
Super nostalgic. Where can I play the original and perhaps more importantly, the first sequel, which I never actually played?
- jaimebuelta 4y ago
  They are available quite cheaply on gog.com https://www.gog.com/en/games?query=monkey%20island&developers=lucasfilm&order=desc:score https://www.gog.com/en/games?query=monkey%20island&developer... They are very good! Obviously the style is out of fashion and some puzzles can be a bit frustrating (though not as much as old Sierra adventures), but they are amazing games...
  - Svip 4y ago
    These are the special editions with updated graphics and voice acting. Although you can always switch back to the original style at any time.
    - Sharlin 4y ago
      Honestly, I have the special edition and after about ten minutes of playing I switched to the original graphics and music and didn't really look back. They really have aged quite well, even though of course they look much blockier on a 24" TFT compared to the original 15"ish CRT experience...
      - technovader 4y ago
        worth mentioning the music is. ot great in the remastered editions they give you 2 options and neither of them are the incredible adlib version of the original
      - vanderZwan 4y ago
        Which is kinda strange because the "pixel" art of those days was never intended to be rendered as blocky pixels, but designed to make use of the CRT's softness.
kgbcia 4y ago
lucasarts had a string of hits that are timeless, dig, day of the tentacle, sam and max[had own tv show], and full throttle. great single player games that didn't require fast user clicks. you can go at your own pace. it was like the studio Ghibli of the 90s
- cpfohl 4y ago
  Man, I loved The Dig. Once my kids are old enough to _not_ have nightmares from some of the scenes we're doing it.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    If you loved The Dig, you'll badly want a remake after this https://youtu.be/xHJlIhpNS2I https://youtu.be/xHJlIhpNS2I
- ByThyGrace 4y ago
  > sam and max[had own tv show] Sam and Max was a 80s-90s comic by Steve Purcell[0], who was also a LucasArts employee at the time. You will recognize his art style in several Monkey Island scenes. Anyway the point is that the tv show was not based on the videogame which you seem to be implying, but on the comic instead. The comic series is artistically amazing. Purcell is a master of setting an atmosphere. It's also meant to be comedic but the humor is mainly cartoon violent slapstick mixed with pop culture references (of the time). It's dated by now. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Purcell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Purcell
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  > that didn't require fast user clicks It absolutely did! Curse that seagull in MI1 tavern, ugh.
chapliboy 4y ago
The game looks stunning, and I'm happy about the direction they have chosen graphically. What I am most excited about is what new game design and mechanics we might get to see. I'm hoping it will be more than raw point and click, and hopefully will involve more mechanics for puzzle solving.
unwind 4y ago
This reminded me of the amusing way the leas character (Guybrush) was named. Obligatory wiki linkage [1] but basically due to a Deluxe Paint filename convention. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guybrush_Threepwood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guybrush_Threepwood
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  Read it from the man himself - and also common myths around the filename: https://grumpygamer.com/guybrush_fact_fiction https://grumpygamer.com/guybrush_fact_fiction
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    I remained strongly impressed (and chuckly) by > Facts are so 2015 -- Ron Gilbert, Fall 2020
noduerme 4y ago
Well, that was a fuckton more fun to read than the monthly update from Chris Roberts
- kappuchino 4y ago
  The german actor and musician? I'm confused.
  - ChoGGi 4y ago
    The Star Citizen guy
    - paines 4y ago
      You meant to say Wing Commander
      - WorldMaker 4y ago
        Yeah that movie was awful, over-hyped and over-budget, too, just like Roberts' greatest unfinished game Freelancer
Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
I love his Day of the Tentacle critique, it's basically what my grandma would say if she reviewed games.... "I'm sure what you've created might be good, but it's not my cup of tea at all... In fact..."
- rob74 4y ago
  Your grandma is a wise person - but of course it's the only way to critique a game made by people that you respect and that you worked with for a long time...
- benniomars 4y ago
  I love the Chuck Jones style in that game. I play through it at least 5-6 times a year. But I also just like Chuck Jones's stuff in general.
  - fernandotakai 4y ago
    it was my first real adventure game (i couldn't even progress through it because i didn't speak a single word of english -- it was trial and error until i understood what "open", "push", "pull", "pick up" were) so i absolutely LOVE the art style. but i totally get what ron means -- art style is 100% personal preference.
darkwater 4y ago
When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped playing modern videogames and as much as I love the style of Thimbleweed Park, going forward for an artist like Ron is what _defines_ an artist. If you like MI1 and Mi2, just play MI1 and MI2 again as I do from time to time. Just like you would watch again a movie from the '70s or listen to the Beatles. But you cannot ask an artist to stay always the same because you loved their first works.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Fan culture in the age of twitter is so polluted with loud minorities.
- soneca 4y ago
  I am glad Ron thinks like that. I didn’t know there was this rage against not being pixel art (but I should have suspected). I am glad it isn’t. I backed and loved Thimbleweed Park (even the ending), but that project was all around nostalgia. The gameplay, the X-Files-y story, it made sense for that game to be pixel art. Now Monkey Island is exactly what Ron said, state of the art. I liked even the 3D one. I am even more excited for this new one after reading the post.
- rob74 4y ago
  What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere. I mean, just look at this screenshot: https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1/screens/image002.jpg https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1... Parts 1 and 2 had this effect on me, with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately. If Return to Monkey Island manages to recapture some of that, I don't care if it's pixel art or whatever else...
  - 867-5309 4y ago
nomoreusernames 4y ago
old 2d scumm is my favorite engine. with all its weird stuff going on, the amount of imagination it has unleashed is next to magical. its like the amiga500 or c64. there is something about being limited as a creative person which sparks imagination. certain "things" do it better or worse. scumm should be seen as an instrument, not a tool.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  An old art teacher of mine once said "art is creativity expressed under constraints".
  - nomoreusernames 4y ago
    its why fart jokes are funny.
nu11ptr 4y ago
I have incredible memories of playing MI1, and to a lesser extent, MI2 (never finished - no Internet back then and these games were tricky). I think it is very cool he is getting to make the game he wants, and I do the same with my development work (it is always for me, if someone else likes it...bonus). I'll reserve judgement until release, but I personally don't like the art style...but who cares, I'm probably not his audience anyway (I stopped gaming years ago, but would probably pick up a copy if it was retro style - and then never play it anyway).
- ricardo81 4y ago
  Cool indeed. I think MI caught the spirit of gameplay for me, alongside iconic titles like Elite and Civ. Pirates of the Caribbean had a similar spirit. I'll likely be handing over cash for this version. If the new game has the same banter and half decent puzzles, it'll be a winner, for me. Something to get my daughter to play with me if she has the patience of walking about the place!
  - wlll 4y ago
    > Pirates of the Caribbean had a similar spirit. The film? Did you see the (at least one) Monkey Island reference in it?
    - ricardo81 4y ago
      Yep. I see the Disney ride was used as inspiration for the game. Makes sense that they are suspiciously similar! >reference "Captain Jack Sparrow at one point used a coffin as a rowboat, just like Guybrush did. The movie and the game both featured a Caribbean voodoo lady who lived in a swamp. " https://www.ocweekly.com/10-things-you-did-not-know-about-monkey-island-6606074/ https://www.ocweekly.com/10-things-you-did-not-know-about-mo... Definitely recall the coffin reference. Pleasing to see.
      - wlll 4y ago
        Plus, the little boy on the dock fishing at the start of (I think) one of the films.
SamPatt 4y ago
Curse of Monkey Island is still one of my all time favorites. The voice acting and humor were second to none.
lawgimenez 4y ago
The Curse of Monkey Island is my favorite game, I am honored to read this post and blog. Thanks HN! I still remember the part of the game where Guybrush was stuck in a quicksand, I remember it took me days to figure the solution out.
- fouadf 4y ago
  It's my favorite game too, this game takes me back to wonderful childhood memories. Ironically that puzzle was the one of the easiest for me to solve
  - lawgimenez 4y ago
    Awesome then! I could not remember that single thing I forgot to collect for that puzzle, maybe it was the gum? I dunno but I enjoyed it a lot. Fun memories.
    - sn0wtrooper 4y ago
      You only needed the Helium Ballon, which you had in the inventory since the beggining of the game
      - lawgimenez 4y ago
        It's cool and amazing that you still remember this. I mean last time I played this game was over 20 years ago ha! Ah yes the Helium balloon and this is the also the part Guybrush needs to shoot the dart right?
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        Papapeeshoo
nottorp 4y ago
> It's ironic that the people who don't want me to make the game I want to make are some of the hard core Monkey Island fans. And that is what makes me sad about all the comments. I don't know. I can probably still finish monkey 1 and 2 without a walkthrough because I've played them many times. That makes me a fan right? And I find the fake modern pixel art... boring.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Not sure I misunderstand you or not, but you seem to have missed the point of the article? Monkey 1&2 are not pixel art, it's "state of the art" graphics. The new one will also not be pixel art, it'll try to move the graphics forward. So if you think pixel art is boring, you should be happy with what was outlined in this blog post?
  - nottorp 4y ago
    > So if you think pixel art is boring, you should be happy with what was outlined in this blog post? I am. Read again. Including what I quoted from the original article.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Yeah, read it a couple of times now. Seems you're actually agreeing with the author, while your comment reads like your disagreeing, but again, probably just me misunderstanding your comment. All is good, I probably just need a break from the computer :)
- the_af 4y ago
  > I don't know. You probably do know. If you've read the reactions online, you'll probably know some vocal fans are disappointed with the new art style. This is Ron's reply to them. There will be exceptions. You are one. I am another. But it doesn't invalidate Ron's point, because it's easy to fact-check it by going online and looking for opinions, even in Ron's own blog.
deleted 4y ago
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rightnow 4y ago
I'd love the new design and i love the old games. I dont really see the point of doing a new game with the old tech. Its better to make a new game with new tech that brings it into 2022.
Copenjin 4y ago
This is one of the few cases where I'll just buy it, I don't even care what good decisions he is making. I've played Thimbleweed Park and loved it, brought back a lot of memories.
- GaylordTuring 4y ago
  I agree. There are very few games that I’ll buy on day one without even reading the reviews. This will be one of them.
hitpointdrew 4y ago
I love this post. I know a decent amount of indie devs, I also have done some hobby game development myself. I see this alarming trend of devs and small studios that are, what I would call, hyper engaging with their players. I get it, the players are important, you want to sell the game, you want people to play it. But, the entitlement and feedback I have seen from some players is just ridiculous. Most players don't have the fist clue as to what makes a good game, or just how hard it actually is to make games. I feel like this post was very elegant way of basically saying "Shut the hell up, it's my game, I don't care what you want, I am making this game primarily for me. This is my art, and my way of expressing myself and sharing it with the world, this is not a collaboration. If you like it great, if you don't, oh well.", but in a much more palatable and acceptable manner.
- ricardo81 4y ago
  Seems to be the case with many resurrected franchises, Star Trek coming to mind. As a kid in the 80s/early 90s, games and series like these caught my imagination. They were fun. Probably fun, interesting and inspiring in different ways to different people. Agree if we listened to everyone's refined version, we'd end up with a different game for everyone. In the end it's only meant to be entertainment.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    In all fairness: there is a difference between the original creator coming up with his/her own beloved continuation of a beloved project, and a soulless money grab by leveraging name recognition with an existing fan base. Irrespective of who is doing the soulless money grabbing (corporation, original creator, etc). Return to Monkey Island comes across like the former (so far), various Trek and Wars continue-spinning-off-quels more like the latter.
    - ricardo81 4y ago
      True. Difficult comparison when the original creators are no longer around to create. Was just referring to strong fan positions.
erwincoumans 4y ago
Fun games but did anyone read the footer on Ron's page? death by dismemberment! "Unless otherwise noted, all content is Copyright 2004-2022 Ron Gilbert. Unauthorized use under penalty of death by dismemberment and/or fine not less than one million dollars. (v4.1)"
- giords 4y ago
  Ah, that penalty is easily dismissible by pressing F13
fouadf 4y ago
Big fan of the game series here. Honestly it's such a thrill to have Ron work on RTMI. I can't wait to see what he has in store for us.
deater 4y ago
for those demanding chunky pixels, you should try this version: http://deater.net/weave/vmwprod/monkey/ http://deater.net/weave/vmwprod/monkey/
stuckinhell 4y ago
I just played thimbleweed park, and yikes what a horrible ending. I'm very worried about Monkey Island now. Some authors NEED editors. I think Ron Gilbert needs the original team to help him on what works and what doesn't. Even the original Chrono Trigger was going to be super depressing, if the original writer had his way on everything. I would have hated his version of it.
- riffraff 4y ago
  Thimbleweed Park was imvho a "meh" game. I hope the new monkey island can improve on that. OTOH I am now playing "The Captain" which is a modern take on point&click with beautiful pixel art and a few new things, and I feel it filled my need for a good monkey island already.
  - inDigiNeous 4y ago
    Yeah for me it was pretty meh also, main problem being too many puzzles that required items from all around the map to be used in another location that might have been on the other corner of the map where you got the item from. Also just too much plot, so many characters and their background stories, how can you care about all of them.. Still very excited about the new Monkey Island, hopefully they don't over trick all the things in it ..
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  This is partly why I think Dave Grossman's deep involvement is so important to Return to Monkey Island. Ron seems best with a larger writers room and Dave by all accounts is one of the best influences he can have that is also a Known Quantity from the rest of the franchise.
- legitster 4y ago
  This worries me a bit too. I have a lot of fondness for Monkey Island, but more often than not - giving a creative person complete creative controls is less likely to produce something good.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
PeterHolzwarth 4y ago
It's a bit ironic that he says he was not really a fan of Day of the Tentacle's "Chuck Jones" art style, when the screenshots for his upcoming Return to Monkey Island are all very specifically that 90's-infused Chuck Jones style - multiple skewed perspective lines in a scene, extreme avoidance of curves (rendered instead as polygonal outlines, so to speak). The art style for his new game is rather ironically nostalgia-laden in probably an unintentional way: it's deep nineties pop art, ala "Xtreme", etc. <edit> This interview article has a number of screenshots that demo this: https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/14/23021974/return-to-monkey-island-ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-interview-screenshots https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/14/23021974/return-to-monkey...
- halfnormalform 4y ago
  The new one sort of reminds me of the "lowbrow" style of Josh Agle, AKA Shag: http://www.shag.com http://www.shag.com
- hadjian 4y ago
  I thought exactly the same! I remember, seeing screenshots of DotT for the first time and the new screens of RtMI invoke the same feeling. Love it!
  - seba_dos1 4y ago
    Yeah, I kinda feel like the style of RoMI could make a better DotT:Remastered than DotT:Remastered did :)
- emmanueloga_ 4y ago
  Reminds me a bit of games like guacamelee [1]. There are a bunch of new or newish games that use this "vector style" ... I always thought this is used mostly out of convenience since it is cheaper/faster to animate with tools like Spine or Dragon Bones. 1: https://www.drinkboxstudios.com/games/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition/ https://www.drinkboxstudios.com/games/guacamelee-super-turbo...
  - 4y ago
YakBizzarro 4y ago
About the art, I think another perfect example is Grim Fandango. It was the first Lucasarts 3D adventure, at a time when the 3D (late '90) was a graphically inferior solution to 2D. However, they exploited the low polygon number, to give a special character to the models, like paper dolls. So the heresy of moving from 2D was instead a conscious artistic choice, strictly linked to the then-modern technologies.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  ...and then Escape from Monkey Island utilized the same tech as Grim Fandango, but without those stylistic choices that made Grim Fandango's graphics work so well :)
- bob1029 4y ago
  > So the heresy of moving from 2D was instead a conscious artistic choice, strictly linked to the then-modern technologies. This is how it should have been all along. The only reason modern GPUs are in such demand is because we forgot to apply art before shiny tech. I don't know why things like polygon count and texture resolution turned into a metric for fun. To this day I can have way more fun in older games like Minecraft than super polished AAA titles like RDR2 or Cyberpunk 2077. The graphics used to get me interested back when we thought photorealism was going to make shit way more fun, but the reality of artistic expression turned out to be much more complex than this...
  - dale_glass 4y ago
    Plenty games went the other way. For every stylish Grim Fandango there's been dozen of Superman 64 and Bubsy 3D, where the developers spent so much time trying to get graphics to work that they had no time left for gameplay or story. Shiny tech means there's much less fighting with the technology that's needed. You can take advantage of that today you don't need to optimize every clock cycle and spend the time polishing up the gameplay. Also, some stories require a fair amount of tech. Superman 64 should have happened in a bustling Metropolis, just like Cyberpunk 2077 does. But it was impossible with the technology of the time.
- 4y ago
adamrezich 4y ago
> Roger Ebert had a great quote that I am constantly reminding myself of: > "The muse visits during the act of creation, not before." I'd never heard this before but this is an amazing quote.
- VladimirGolovin 4y ago
  “This is the other secret that real artists know and wannabe writers don’t. When we sit down each day and do our work, power concentrates around us. The Muse takes note of our dedication. She approves. We have earned favor in her sight. When we sit down and work, we become like a magnetized rod that attracts iron filings. Ideas come. Insights accrete.” ― Steven Pressfield, The War of Art. BTW, easily one of the best books I've ever read.
madarco 4y ago
Ron says "I never liked the art in DotT...never liked the wacky Chuck Jones style" but the first screens of RTMI looks exactly like that! Not that I don't like that style, but I don't think it's a surprise for Lucas Art fans. Day of the Tentacle, Sam & Max, Fullthrottle weren't that far away (except with a lower resolution)
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  Full throttle had a fairly grounded art style.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    Relative to those others, sure, but it was still such an interesting mishmash of biker/tattoo art, heavy metal art, and dystopian imagery that doesn't exist just about anywhere else in games. (The next closest is probably Brütal Legend, for obvious reasons.)
pier25 4y ago
We live in weird times. Something amazing can happen (such as a new Monkey Island game) and there will always be an angry mob with pitchforks that will be very vocal about it on social media. This probably was always the case, but the internet now serves as an amplifier of some sort of hype-based social feedback mechanism for ideas and opinions. This mechanism probably made sense 200,000+ years ago when groups were very small and it helped survival by promoting social cohesion. But today the internet connects billions of humans and it's a pretty toxic behavior.
- technovader 4y ago
  More like legitimate criticism that is brushed off as "haters" and "mob"
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
I find it interesting that sequels in gaming are way easier than in movie business: game designers don't have to deal that much with stars ageing or dying, and voice actors are far easier to replace than on-screen ones. Though with deepfake technology this might be changing.
pizzabearman 4y ago
I feel like monkey island one and two was basically a very advanced "book" with basic animated illustrations. But you could still fill in a lot with your own imagination with the graphics of that time. Skip forward to any of todays games and they are way way closer to a movie then a book. Just like when any book is made into a movie there is a lot of hardcore fans that have a different mental model of their book and don't want it overshadowed by a movie. It is easy to avoid and not watch the "movie". I will be very happy to see a new game by Ron based on what he feels is his vision and not what the public wants.
technovader 4y ago
Ron you really should not be bashing your oldest most hard core fans. Monkey Island 2 is a masterpiece. The 2D hand drawn style and animation are a huge part of it. I'll take any Monkey Island sequel, but if you take a closer look at say the Tales of Monkey Island sequels, you'll see what people are worried about. Monkey Island 4 was TERRIBLE. Fully 3D and tank controls. Tales of Monkey Island was great but completely ruined by terrible tank controls. A proper Monkey Island games needs to be 1. Point and Click 2. Have excellent puzzle design and structure 3. Ideally 2D hand drawn art and animation 4. Least important, Pixelated style like MI2 or Loom People who are critizing the trailer are worried we're getting another Tales of Monkey Island or Monkey Island 4. As long as you nail #1 (proper point and click controls) I think you will still make a better Monkey Island sequel since Curse of Monkey Island
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  > Monkey Island 2 is a masterpiece. My mileage certainly differs. I loved how it looked, but to me it is by far the weakest of the lucasarts games I played (and I played all but the first Maniac Mansion and Zac McKraken). It is far too difficult! Far too many locations and items, you just get overwhelmed in the middle part of the game. MI1 was a much better game in this regard.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  What do 3D games have to do with this though? The new game is very clearly not 3D. Also, while Escape was absolutely atrocious, Tales wasn't so bad. It wasn't point'n'click, but unlike Escape it actually had reasonable controls.
  - technovader 4y ago
    The new game isn't 3D, you're right. At least from the trailer I can assume so. But I wouldn't rule it out completely. Let's see when we actually get some gameplay. But it still feels like a major downgrade to Curse of Monkey Island or the originals. It looks like every other game, very generic style. It's lost the charm of the original games IMO. I think Ron has an opportunity to differentiate his game from all the bad sequels we got before it.
fancyPantsZero 4y ago
When he talks about pushing the art forward, I wonder if he is also talking about the art of game design. Is he going to show us a futuristic vision of the classic point & click gameplay, or is this part still stuck in the past?
deleted 4y ago
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danielodievich 4y ago
Wait there is a new Monkey Island game (<googles furiously>)... Growing up in Soviet Union and getting 100% games pirated through floppies, I played Monkey Island (funny), DoTT (funny ^2), Gobli[i|ii]ns, Space Quest (!star trek?), Gabriel Knight (scary!) and many other adventure games with fervor only lightly diluted by doing other things like programming. My command of English wasn't so good. And being behind a (slowly falling apart) iron curtain, the cultural references were often completely over my head. I didn't understand half of the jokes in Monkey Island, I didn't get all the Star Trek references in Space Quest although I do now, and I was completely unsure what was the deal with the Cherry tree and Franklin (oh wait was it Washington) joke in the Day of the Tentacle, but I rolled with it. Doing it all made my english so much better, and so profit! But those games were still amazingly awesome and I'll be getting the return of Monkey Island sight unseen!

460 points by sabas_ge 4y ago

Sharlin 4y ago

"When you have fans like this, who needs haters?"

technovader 4y ago
He's being a baby here. There's a proper way to take criticism from a passionate fanbase of 20+ years. IMO the criticism is absolutely justified, just from looking at the screenshots and trailer.
- Sharlin 4y ago
  His response seems entirely reasonable, and some grumpiness is definitely expected from someone whose domain is literally grumpygamer.com. As a fan of the originals, I also see nothing wrong with the art style of the new game.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  The way my mind understands this as actions across the passage of time: 1. Ron created the games back then 2. People played the games back then. Some people absolutely loved the games and had a profound impact on them 3. 20+ years of life happened to Ron and those who played and loved the games. During that time, great distortions occur: nostalgia, rose-coloured glasses, older memories become shinier memories 4. Ron decides to make sequel based on who he is now 5. Step 3 causes fear of the ruin of a legacy and tainting of protected childhood memories (cough Star Wars cough). This is the present. 6a. Game is released 6b. Some hardcore fans love it, some hardcore fans hate it. As it ever was. And specifically to this comment: >There's a proper way to take criticism from a passionate fanbase of 20+ years. There's some kind of ridiculous level of entitlement in dictating how an artist should take criticism. Were I to have any say in it, I'd dictate this: Fucking ignore it and be true to your own creative vision. After all, that's the same way the magic has been created previously.

darkerside 4y ago

Super nostalgic. Where can I play the original and perhaps more importantly, the first sequel, which I never actually played?

jaimebuelta 4y ago
They are available quite cheaply on gog.com https://www.gog.com/en/games?query=monkey%20island&developers=lucasfilm&order=desc:score https://www.gog.com/en/games?query=monkey%20island&developer... They are very good! Obviously the style is out of fashion and some puzzles can be a bit frustrating (though not as much as old Sierra adventures), but they are amazing games...
- Svip 4y ago
  These are the special editions with updated graphics and voice acting. Although you can always switch back to the original style at any time.
  - Sharlin 4y ago
    Honestly, I have the special edition and after about ten minutes of playing I switched to the original graphics and music and didn't really look back. They really have aged quite well, even though of course they look much blockier on a 24" TFT compared to the original 15"ish CRT experience...
    - technovader 4y ago
      worth mentioning the music is. ot great in the remastered editions they give you 2 options and neither of them are the incredible adlib version of the original
    - vanderZwan 4y ago
      Which is kinda strange because the "pixel" art of those days was never intended to be rendered as blocky pixels, but designed to make use of the CRT's softness.

kgbcia 4y ago

lucasarts had a string of hits that are timeless, dig, day of the tentacle, sam and max[had own tv show], and full throttle. great single player games that didn't require fast user clicks. you can go at your own pace. it was like the studio Ghibli of the 90s

cpfohl 4y ago
Man, I loved The Dig. Once my kids are old enough to _not_ have nightmares from some of the scenes we're doing it.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  If you loved The Dig, you'll badly want a remake after this https://youtu.be/xHJlIhpNS2I https://youtu.be/xHJlIhpNS2I
ByThyGrace 4y ago
> sam and max[had own tv show] Sam and Max was a 80s-90s comic by Steve Purcell[0], who was also a LucasArts employee at the time. You will recognize his art style in several Monkey Island scenes. Anyway the point is that the tv show was not based on the videogame which you seem to be implying, but on the comic instead. The comic series is artistically amazing. Purcell is a master of setting an atmosphere. It's also meant to be comedic but the humor is mainly cartoon violent slapstick mixed with pop culture references (of the time). It's dated by now. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Purcell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Purcell
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
> that didn't require fast user clicks It absolutely did! Curse that seagull in MI1 tavern, ugh.

chapliboy 4y ago

The game looks stunning, and I'm happy about the direction they have chosen graphically. What I am most excited about is what new game design and mechanics we might get to see. I'm hoping it will be more than raw point and click, and hopefully will involve more mechanics for puzzle solving.

unwind 4y ago

This reminded me of the amusing way the leas character (Guybrush) was named. Obligatory wiki linkage [1] but basically due to a Deluxe Paint filename convention. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guybrush_Threepwood https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guybrush_Threepwood

DocTomoe 4y ago
Read it from the man himself - and also common myths around the filename: https://grumpygamer.com/guybrush_fact_fiction https://grumpygamer.com/guybrush_fact_fiction
- mdp2021 4y ago
  I remained strongly impressed (and chuckly) by > Facts are so 2015 -- Ron Gilbert, Fall 2020

noduerme 4y ago

Well, that was a fuckton more fun to read than the monthly update from Chris Roberts

kappuchino 4y ago
The german actor and musician? I'm confused.
- ChoGGi 4y ago
  The Star Citizen guy
  - paines 4y ago
    You meant to say Wing Commander
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      Yeah that movie was awful, over-hyped and over-budget, too, just like Roberts' greatest unfinished game Freelancer

Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago

I love his Day of the Tentacle critique, it's basically what my grandma would say if she reviewed games.... "I'm sure what you've created might be good, but it's not my cup of tea at all... In fact..."

rob74 4y ago
Your grandma is a wise person - but of course it's the only way to critique a game made by people that you respect and that you worked with for a long time...
benniomars 4y ago
I love the Chuck Jones style in that game. I play through it at least 5-6 times a year. But I also just like Chuck Jones's stuff in general.
- fernandotakai 4y ago
  it was my first real adventure game (i couldn't even progress through it because i didn't speak a single word of english -- it was trial and error until i understood what "open", "push", "pull", "pick up" were) so i absolutely LOVE the art style. but i totally get what ron means -- art style is 100% personal preference.

darkwater 4y ago

When you read posts like this, and also the previous, linked one [1], you can clearly see that Ron is a smart and humble guy. I really dislike the fan mob that it's starting the hate because RTMI is not going to be a throwback and retro-game. > Monkey Island 1 and 2 weren't pixel art games. They were games using state-of- the-art tech and art. This is SO true, and as much as I loved those games, as much as I stopped playing modern videogames and as much as I love the style of Thimbleweed Park, going forward for an artist like Ron is what _defines_ an artist. If you like MI1 and Mi2, just play MI1 and MI2 again as I do from time to time. Just like you would watch again a movie from the '70s or listen to the Beatles. But you cannot ask an artist to stay always the same because you loved their first works.

jeffwask 4y ago
Fan culture in the age of twitter is so polluted with loud minorities.
soneca 4y ago
I am glad Ron thinks like that. I didn’t know there was this rage against not being pixel art (but I should have suspected). I am glad it isn’t. I backed and loved Thimbleweed Park (even the ending), but that project was all around nostalgia. The gameplay, the X-Files-y story, it made sense for that game to be pixel art. Now Monkey Island is exactly what Ron said, state of the art. I liked even the 3D one. I am even more excited for this new one after reading the post.
rob74 4y ago
What was special about the first two Monkey Island games (at least for me) was the atmosphere. I mean, just look at this screenshot: https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1/screens/image002.jpg https://www.adventurecorner.de//uploads/images/games/monkey1... Parts 1 and 2 had this effect on me, with part 3 the magic was mostly gone unfortunately. If Return to Monkey Island manages to recapture some of that, I don't care if it's pixel art or whatever else...
- 867-5309 4y ago

nomoreusernames 4y ago

old 2d scumm is my favorite engine. with all its weird stuff going on, the amount of imagination it has unleashed is next to magical. its like the amiga500 or c64. there is something about being limited as a creative person which sparks imagination. certain "things" do it better or worse. scumm should be seen as an instrument, not a tool.

JohnFen 4y ago
An old art teacher of mine once said "art is creativity expressed under constraints".
- nomoreusernames 4y ago
  its why fart jokes are funny.

nu11ptr 4y ago

I have incredible memories of playing MI1, and to a lesser extent, MI2 (never finished - no Internet back then and these games were tricky). I think it is very cool he is getting to make the game he wants, and I do the same with my development work (it is always for me, if someone else likes it...bonus). I'll reserve judgement until release, but I personally don't like the art style...but who cares, I'm probably not his audience anyway (I stopped gaming years ago, but would probably pick up a copy if it was retro style - and then never play it anyway).

ricardo81 4y ago
Cool indeed. I think MI caught the spirit of gameplay for me, alongside iconic titles like Elite and Civ. Pirates of the Caribbean had a similar spirit. I'll likely be handing over cash for this version. If the new game has the same banter and half decent puzzles, it'll be a winner, for me. Something to get my daughter to play with me if she has the patience of walking about the place!
- wlll 4y ago
  > Pirates of the Caribbean had a similar spirit. The film? Did you see the (at least one) Monkey Island reference in it?
  - ricardo81 4y ago
    Yep. I see the Disney ride was used as inspiration for the game. Makes sense that they are suspiciously similar! >reference "Captain Jack Sparrow at one point used a coffin as a rowboat, just like Guybrush did. The movie and the game both featured a Caribbean voodoo lady who lived in a swamp. " https://www.ocweekly.com/10-things-you-did-not-know-about-monkey-island-6606074/ https://www.ocweekly.com/10-things-you-did-not-know-about-mo... Definitely recall the coffin reference. Pleasing to see.
    - wlll 4y ago
      Plus, the little boy on the dock fishing at the start of (I think) one of the films.

SamPatt 4y ago

Curse of Monkey Island is still one of my all time favorites. The voice acting and humor were second to none.

lawgimenez 4y ago

The Curse of Monkey Island is my favorite game, I am honored to read this post and blog. Thanks HN! I still remember the part of the game where Guybrush was stuck in a quicksand, I remember it took me days to figure the solution out.

fouadf 4y ago
It's my favorite game too, this game takes me back to wonderful childhood memories. Ironically that puzzle was the one of the easiest for me to solve
- lawgimenez 4y ago
  Awesome then! I could not remember that single thing I forgot to collect for that puzzle, maybe it was the gum? I dunno but I enjoyed it a lot. Fun memories.
  - sn0wtrooper 4y ago
    You only needed the Helium Ballon, which you had in the inventory since the beggining of the game
    - lawgimenez 4y ago
      It's cool and amazing that you still remember this. I mean last time I played this game was over 20 years ago ha! Ah yes the Helium balloon and this is the also the part Guybrush needs to shoot the dart right?
      - WorldMaker 4y ago
        Papapeeshoo

nottorp 4y ago

> It's ironic that the people who don't want me to make the game I want to make are some of the hard core Monkey Island fans. And that is what makes me sad about all the comments. I don't know. I can probably still finish monkey 1 and 2 without a walkthrough because I've played them many times. That makes me a fan right? And I find the fake modern pixel art... boring.

capableweb 4y ago
Not sure I misunderstand you or not, but you seem to have missed the point of the article? Monkey 1&2 are not pixel art, it's "state of the art" graphics. The new one will also not be pixel art, it'll try to move the graphics forward. So if you think pixel art is boring, you should be happy with what was outlined in this blog post?
- nottorp 4y ago
  > So if you think pixel art is boring, you should be happy with what was outlined in this blog post? I am. Read again. Including what I quoted from the original article.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Yeah, read it a couple of times now. Seems you're actually agreeing with the author, while your comment reads like your disagreeing, but again, probably just me misunderstanding your comment. All is good, I probably just need a break from the computer :)
the_af 4y ago
> I don't know. You probably do know. If you've read the reactions online, you'll probably know some vocal fans are disappointed with the new art style. This is Ron's reply to them. There will be exceptions. You are one. I am another. But it doesn't invalidate Ron's point, because it's easy to fact-check it by going online and looking for opinions, even in Ron's own blog.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rightnow 4y ago

I'd love the new design and i love the old games. I dont really see the point of doing a new game with the old tech. Its better to make a new game with new tech that brings it into 2022.

Copenjin 4y ago

This is one of the few cases where I'll just buy it, I don't even care what good decisions he is making. I've played Thimbleweed Park and loved it, brought back a lot of memories.

GaylordTuring 4y ago
I agree. There are very few games that I’ll buy on day one without even reading the reviews. This will be one of them.

hitpointdrew 4y ago

I love this post. I know a decent amount of indie devs, I also have done some hobby game development myself. I see this alarming trend of devs and small studios that are, what I would call, hyper engaging with their players. I get it, the players are important, you want to sell the game, you want people to play it. But, the entitlement and feedback I have seen from some players is just ridiculous. Most players don't have the fist clue as to what makes a good game, or just how hard it actually is to make games. I feel like this post was very elegant way of basically saying "Shut the hell up, it's my game, I don't care what you want, I am making this game primarily for me. This is my art, and my way of expressing myself and sharing it with the world, this is not a collaboration. If you like it great, if you don't, oh well.", but in a much more palatable and acceptable manner.

ricardo81 4y ago
Seems to be the case with many resurrected franchises, Star Trek coming to mind. As a kid in the 80s/early 90s, games and series like these caught my imagination. They were fun. Probably fun, interesting and inspiring in different ways to different people. Agree if we listened to everyone's refined version, we'd end up with a different game for everyone. In the end it's only meant to be entertainment.
- Beldin 4y ago
  In all fairness: there is a difference between the original creator coming up with his/her own beloved continuation of a beloved project, and a soulless money grab by leveraging name recognition with an existing fan base. Irrespective of who is doing the soulless money grabbing (corporation, original creator, etc). Return to Monkey Island comes across like the former (so far), various Trek and Wars continue-spinning-off-quels more like the latter.
  - ricardo81 4y ago
    True. Difficult comparison when the original creators are no longer around to create. Was just referring to strong fan positions.

erwincoumans 4y ago

Fun games but did anyone read the footer on Ron's page? death by dismemberment! "Unless otherwise noted, all content is Copyright 2004-2022 Ron Gilbert. Unauthorized use under penalty of death by dismemberment and/or fine not less than one million dollars. (v4.1)"

giords 4y ago
Ah, that penalty is easily dismissible by pressing F13

fouadf 4y ago

Big fan of the game series here. Honestly it's such a thrill to have Ron work on RTMI. I can't wait to see what he has in store for us.

deater 4y ago

for those demanding chunky pixels, you should try this version: http://deater.net/weave/vmwprod/monkey/ http://deater.net/weave/vmwprod/monkey/

stuckinhell 4y ago

I just played thimbleweed park, and yikes what a horrible ending. I'm very worried about Monkey Island now. Some authors NEED editors. I think Ron Gilbert needs the original team to help him on what works and what doesn't. Even the original Chrono Trigger was going to be super depressing, if the original writer had his way on everything. I would have hated his version of it.

riffraff 4y ago
Thimbleweed Park was imvho a "meh" game. I hope the new monkey island can improve on that. OTOH I am now playing "The Captain" which is a modern take on point&click with beautiful pixel art and a few new things, and I feel it filled my need for a good monkey island already.
- inDigiNeous 4y ago
  Yeah for me it was pretty meh also, main problem being too many puzzles that required items from all around the map to be used in another location that might have been on the other corner of the map where you got the item from. Also just too much plot, so many characters and their background stories, how can you care about all of them.. Still very excited about the new Monkey Island, hopefully they don't over trick all the things in it ..
WorldMaker 4y ago
This is partly why I think Dave Grossman's deep involvement is so important to Return to Monkey Island. Ron seems best with a larger writers room and Dave by all accounts is one of the best influences he can have that is also a Known Quantity from the rest of the franchise.
legitster 4y ago
This worries me a bit too. I have a lot of fondness for Monkey Island, but more often than not - giving a creative person complete creative controls is less likely to produce something good.
pcthrowaway 4y ago

PeterHolzwarth 4y ago

It's a bit ironic that he says he was not really a fan of Day of the Tentacle's "Chuck Jones" art style, when the screenshots for his upcoming Return to Monkey Island are all very specifically that 90's-infused Chuck Jones style - multiple skewed perspective lines in a scene, extreme avoidance of curves (rendered instead as polygonal outlines, so to speak). The art style for his new game is rather ironically nostalgia-laden in probably an unintentional way: it's deep nineties pop art, ala "Xtreme", etc. <edit> This interview article has a number of screenshots that demo this: https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/14/23021974/return-to-monkey-island-ron-gilbert-dave-grossman-interview-screenshots https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/14/23021974/return-to-monkey...

halfnormalform 4y ago
The new one sort of reminds me of the "lowbrow" style of Josh Agle, AKA Shag: http://www.shag.com http://www.shag.com
hadjian 4y ago
I thought exactly the same! I remember, seeing screenshots of DotT for the first time and the new screens of RtMI invoke the same feeling. Love it!
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  Yeah, I kinda feel like the style of RoMI could make a better DotT:Remastered than DotT:Remastered did :)
emmanueloga_ 4y ago
Reminds me a bit of games like guacamelee [1]. There are a bunch of new or newish games that use this "vector style" ... I always thought this is used mostly out of convenience since it is cheaper/faster to animate with tools like Spine or Dragon Bones. 1: https://www.drinkboxstudios.com/games/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition/ https://www.drinkboxstudios.com/games/guacamelee-super-turbo...
- 4y ago

YakBizzarro 4y ago

About the art, I think another perfect example is Grim Fandango. It was the first Lucasarts 3D adventure, at a time when the 3D (late '90) was a graphically inferior solution to 2D. However, they exploited the low polygon number, to give a special character to the models, like paper dolls. So the heresy of moving from 2D was instead a conscious artistic choice, strictly linked to the then-modern technologies.

seba_dos1 4y ago
...and then Escape from Monkey Island utilized the same tech as Grim Fandango, but without those stylistic choices that made Grim Fandango's graphics work so well :)
bob1029 4y ago
> So the heresy of moving from 2D was instead a conscious artistic choice, strictly linked to the then-modern technologies. This is how it should have been all along. The only reason modern GPUs are in such demand is because we forgot to apply art before shiny tech. I don't know why things like polygon count and texture resolution turned into a metric for fun. To this day I can have way more fun in older games like Minecraft than super polished AAA titles like RDR2 or Cyberpunk 2077. The graphics used to get me interested back when we thought photorealism was going to make shit way more fun, but the reality of artistic expression turned out to be much more complex than this...
- dale_glass 4y ago
  Plenty games went the other way. For every stylish Grim Fandango there's been dozen of Superman 64 and Bubsy 3D, where the developers spent so much time trying to get graphics to work that they had no time left for gameplay or story. Shiny tech means there's much less fighting with the technology that's needed. You can take advantage of that today you don't need to optimize every clock cycle and spend the time polishing up the gameplay. Also, some stories require a fair amount of tech. Superman 64 should have happened in a bustling Metropolis, just like Cyberpunk 2077 does. But it was impossible with the technology of the time.
4y ago

adamrezich 4y ago

> Roger Ebert had a great quote that I am constantly reminding myself of: > "The muse visits during the act of creation, not before." I'd never heard this before but this is an amazing quote.

VladimirGolovin 4y ago
“This is the other secret that real artists know and wannabe writers don’t. When we sit down each day and do our work, power concentrates around us. The Muse takes note of our dedication. She approves. We have earned favor in her sight. When we sit down and work, we become like a magnetized rod that attracts iron filings. Ideas come. Insights accrete.” ― Steven Pressfield, The War of Art. BTW, easily one of the best books I've ever read.

madarco 4y ago

Ron says "I never liked the art in DotT...never liked the wacky Chuck Jones style" but the first screens of RTMI looks exactly like that! Not that I don't like that style, but I don't think it's a surprise for Lucas Art fans. Day of the Tentacle, Sam & Max, Fullthrottle weren't that far away (except with a lower resolution)

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
Full throttle had a fairly grounded art style.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  Relative to those others, sure, but it was still such an interesting mishmash of biker/tattoo art, heavy metal art, and dystopian imagery that doesn't exist just about anywhere else in games. (The next closest is probably Brütal Legend, for obvious reasons.)

pier25 4y ago

We live in weird times. Something amazing can happen (such as a new Monkey Island game) and there will always be an angry mob with pitchforks that will be very vocal about it on social media. This probably was always the case, but the internet now serves as an amplifier of some sort of hype-based social feedback mechanism for ideas and opinions. This mechanism probably made sense 200,000+ years ago when groups were very small and it helped survival by promoting social cohesion. But today the internet connects billions of humans and it's a pretty toxic behavior.

technovader 4y ago
More like legitimate criticism that is brushed off as "haters" and "mob"

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

I find it interesting that sequels in gaming are way easier than in movie business: game designers don't have to deal that much with stars ageing or dying, and voice actors are far easier to replace than on-screen ones. Though with deepfake technology this might be changing.

pizzabearman 4y ago

I feel like monkey island one and two was basically a very advanced "book" with basic animated illustrations. But you could still fill in a lot with your own imagination with the graphics of that time. Skip forward to any of todays games and they are way way closer to a movie then a book. Just like when any book is made into a movie there is a lot of hardcore fans that have a different mental model of their book and don't want it overshadowed by a movie. It is easy to avoid and not watch the "movie". I will be very happy to see a new game by Ron based on what he feels is his vision and not what the public wants.

technovader 4y ago

Ron you really should not be bashing your oldest most hard core fans. Monkey Island 2 is a masterpiece. The 2D hand drawn style and animation are a huge part of it. I'll take any Monkey Island sequel, but if you take a closer look at say the Tales of Monkey Island sequels, you'll see what people are worried about. Monkey Island 4 was TERRIBLE. Fully 3D and tank controls. Tales of Monkey Island was great but completely ruined by terrible tank controls. A proper Monkey Island games needs to be 1. Point and Click 2. Have excellent puzzle design and structure 3. Ideally 2D hand drawn art and animation 4. Least important, Pixelated style like MI2 or Loom People who are critizing the trailer are worried we're getting another Tales of Monkey Island or Monkey Island 4. As long as you nail #1 (proper point and click controls) I think you will still make a better Monkey Island sequel since Curse of Monkey Island

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
> Monkey Island 2 is a masterpiece. My mileage certainly differs. I loved how it looked, but to me it is by far the weakest of the lucasarts games I played (and I played all but the first Maniac Mansion and Zac McKraken). It is far too difficult! Far too many locations and items, you just get overwhelmed in the middle part of the game. MI1 was a much better game in this regard.
seba_dos1 4y ago
What do 3D games have to do with this though? The new game is very clearly not 3D. Also, while Escape was absolutely atrocious, Tales wasn't so bad. It wasn't point'n'click, but unlike Escape it actually had reasonable controls.
- technovader 4y ago
  The new game isn't 3D, you're right. At least from the trailer I can assume so. But I wouldn't rule it out completely. Let's see when we actually get some gameplay. But it still feels like a major downgrade to Curse of Monkey Island or the originals. It looks like every other game, very generic style. It's lost the charm of the original games IMO. I think Ron has an opportunity to differentiate his game from all the bad sequels we got before it.

fancyPantsZero 4y ago

When he talks about pushing the art forward, I wonder if he is also talking about the art of game design. Is he going to show us a futuristic vision of the classic point & click gameplay, or is this part still stuck in the past?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

danielodievich 4y ago

Wait there is a new Monkey Island game (<googles furiously>)... Growing up in Soviet Union and getting 100% games pirated through floppies, I played Monkey Island (funny), DoTT (funny ^2), Gobli[i|ii]ns, Space Quest (!star trek?), Gabriel Knight (scary!) and many other adventure games with fervor only lightly diluted by doing other things like programming. My command of English wasn't so good. And being behind a (slowly falling apart) iron curtain, the cultural references were often completely over my head. I didn't understand half of the jokes in Monkey Island, I didn't get all the Star Trek references in Space Quest although I do now, and I was completely unsure what was the deal with the Cherry tree and Franklin (oh wait was it Washington) joke in the Day of the Tentacle, but I rolled with it. Doing it all made my english so much better, and so profit! But those games were still amazingly awesome and I'll be getting the return of Monkey Island sight unseen!