13 ms·
Baffling neurological illness affects growing number of young adults
- phkahler 5y ago>> But in January, the province of New Brunswick is widely expected to announce that the cluster of cases, first made public last year after a memo was leaked to the media, is the result of misdiagnoses, which have mistakenly grouped unrelated illnesses together. If they want to say that, I think they are obligated to also provide the correct diagnosis. I hate when people say "we know it's not X" without proof and without a specific alternative.
- davesque 5y agoI'm not sure about this case, but wouldn't it be okay to say something like that if none of the diagnostic criteria for a disease are met?
- sudosysgen 5y agoThey can't say that, because their point is that these are all existing diseases, so for that point to be true they'd have to meet the criteria.
- phkahler 5y agoThis is a new mystery disease, there is little known about it. I'd say they need to positively identify a case as something else to say it's not the new thing.
- 0x_rs 5y ago>The 3 referring physicians in New Brunswick engaged the Public Health Agency of Canada’s Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease Surveillance System (CJDSS) to actively investigate the possibility of human prion disease, but to date, all test results have been negative for known forms of human prion disease. https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/ocmoh/cdc/neuro_cluster.html https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/ocmoh/cdc/neu... So it does not seem to be prions, despite the similarities.
- nieve 5y agoI'm not sure "known" is very comforting when we have no reason to believe that we have a complete inventory of all possible prion diseases in humans.
- lazide 5y agoWhich at least is good - be aware Prions are very hard to detect or categorize (and most forms of infectious prions seem incredibly hard to destroy). We don’t have a generic ‘prion’ test, and there is a non-zero chance of a different type we haven’t categorized yet. Until relatively recently they were considered some kind of ‘wake up sweating and dismiss the nightmare as just fantasy’ type cause that should be dismissed by rational people, though there were a number of serious known diseases that no virus or bacteria could be shown identified as causing. Not actually knowing what causes a disease is a lot more common than people think though, including for a number of relatively common diseases. The ones we’ve shown a prior cause for had a big question mark next to them despite concerted effort. They were also generally in either remote populations that were practicing some taboo things (human cannibalism), a few families, or in animals (scrapie), and clearly fatal. In the mid 60’s it was becoming apparent these diseases were not likely caused by the most common theory of a ‘slow virus’ or any known bacteria, as even biological sterilizing agents, viral killing agents, hard UV, and high levels of ionizing radiation didn’t stop samples from being infectious, and searches to find the actual cause started looking for more novel sources, despite a lot of skepticism. The term prion, after decades of research, was only coined in ‘82, and only generally accepted as the actual source of the disease (instead of a red herring for a disease caused by a not-yet-isolate virus) in the late 90’s to early 2000’s. One of the most prolific researchers on the topic got a Nobel prize for his work proving they exist - but only in 2017. A brief history [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4626585/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4626585/] So not likely, but until another cause can be isolated, best to not fully rule it out either, even if it is negative for all known prions. With how good many of our tests actually are, it’s easy to overweight their accuracy in categorizing unknown phenomenon. Somewhat of a CSI type effect.
- gfykvfyxgc 5y agoSeems obviously BMAA but clearly the government don’t want to say so because it will destroy the lobster industry. We should all be terrified of BMAA and it’s here because of climate change. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190124110834.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190124110834.h... Climate change is making the oceans and fresh water toxic and very deadly. We’ve seriously fucked the earth. Have you ever heard weasel words more reminiscent of a cover up: “ But experts nonetheless warn that testing itself is also more difficult than the public realizes. While some medical tests can provide quick and definite results other types of investigation require far more work. “What people are talking about really amounts to a full research investigation, because then we know what we’re looking for precisely,” said the federal scientist who was familiar with both the cluster and the testing process. “Right now we don’t have a way to interpret simple data that you might get when testing a person’s brain tissue for a particular toxin. For example, how much are ‘elevated’ levels of a neurotoxin compared to the rest of the public? And when does that become a cause for concern?” The scientist said teams are ready to begin the research, but “New Brunswick has specifically told us not to go forward with that work”.”
- chiefalchemist 5y agoNot nitpicking but to clarify a bit, that study says "Such blooms are a regular feature of Australian inland waterways and are increasing due to nutrient run-off, reduced river flows and climate change." So while climate change (i.e., warming in targeted areas) doesn't help, it's more of the final nail in a series of nails we've been driving into Mother Nature's heart. The idea we could be so negligent and abusive of our own home without repercussions is a great narrative for profits, but not so good for our home.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jvanderbot 5y agoThe leading cause of toxic algae blooms like this is nutrient runoff. The leading cause of nutrient runoff is over-fertilization of industrialized farmland. I've never heard of climate change associated with these until now, but I've only worked tangentially with these phenomenon, and am not an expert.
- ljf 5y agoPrevious reporting on the issue; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/mystery-brain-disorder-baffles-canadian-medicine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/mystery-brain-... 'Forever Chemicals' are known to get concentrated in shellfish - I wonder if that is an issue? I'd love to see the comparative numbers of similar cases in other environments - this seems very high but I have no idea what the baseline for this sort of thing is. As someone that grew up with the spector of 'mad cow disease' (bse/cjd) in the UK, it is horrible to think about the affects in these people and their families. The fact that care givers are also falling ill is very interesting and concerning.
- formerly_proven 5y agoYou really should never eat shellfish from unknown sources, because these are either from unsustainable farms pumped full with chemicals to keep diseases in check or from the sea. Either way, very dirty food in more than one way. If you really gotta eat shellfish, get it from local closed-cycle industrial farms. That's of course more expensive, because you're paying for what you're getting.
- halpert 5y agoI was pretty impressed with Maine's lobster catch regulations. Most notably, the license holder has to be the one to physically pull up the traps, which puts a very small upper bound on how big a single lobster catching operation can be. They also have catch regulations to keep the practice sustainable, which makes sense given that it's a large part of their economy.
- GordonS 5y agoAs someone that did a lot of research into aquaculture for work a couple of years back, I'm now very picky about where I get fish, whether finfish or shellfish. Safety, processes, practices and quality vary wildly by region and farm.
- mrosett 5y agoDo you have any high level suggestions?
- donkarma 5y agoPretty scary, can't wait to read the book on it in 10 years.
- halpert 5y agoThis was previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28979532 The linked article is about how NB went out of their way to shut out federal investigators. If it’s environmental, it’s possible the NB government is trying to cover it up. This is also briefly touched on in this article: > The scientist said teams are ready to begin the research, but “New Brunswick has specifically told us not to go forward with that work”.
- wayoutthere 5y agoThis should be unsurprising. Governments consistently represent business interests over the well-being of their population. As a result the right is already running on populism and the left is not far behind with all the labor organizing that’s happening. We’re in for a wild ride over the next decade.
- spanktheuser 5y agoI’m not sure I disagree with your broader point, but I don’t understand how labor organizing equates with right-wing populism. To me greater efforts at unionization are simply a rational economic response. What am I missing?
- wayoutthere 5y agoLabor organizing is largely being driven by left-wing populism in the face of unrelenting corporate ghoulishness from the Democratic Party. Once the right went hard populist it became the meta because business interests fled to the other side and pissed them off too. And historically, high levels of populism in politics usually ends up in authoritarianism. I’m actually very sympathetic to left wing populist positions; but at the same time it’s very easy for charlatans to prey on.
- imglorp 5y agoThat signals a splendid research candidate.
- sh4un 5y agoCanadian healthcare is scary, and it's made worse by these politicians that always go to the US for care. The joke is that it's gotten so progressive that no one gets better, we all have to equally suffer. You can see clearly how this situation was mishandled.
- nightowl_games 5y agoJust chiming in here as a Canadian to express my immense satisfaction with our public health care. I just got an appointment for a minor issue in less than 24 hours. We recently had a baby and got top shelf care at a new hospital, better than the San Diego hospital my friend just had a baby at. All of it was free. Except the parking. Friggen' parking, amirite. This case clearly has basically nothing to do with public 'health care' this is clearly political and health research related.
- elevenoh 5y agoCanadian healthcare is indeed in rough shape. Our health outcomes have plateaued, wait times increased and costs rocketed. The inevitable nature of uncompetitive systems.
- vsareto 5y ago>Our health outcomes have plateaued Healthcare is messy. That plateau might be the best we can accomplish given our current technology, science, healthcare, politics, and culture. It's not necessarily a measurement that always has to go up (like USA stocks). If you want to put this on non-competitive systems, the USA has a competitive system and it is probably worse than Canada. If not completely worse, then certainly worse on major dimensions like cost and accessibility. I'd be interested in what these health outcomes measured if you have a link handy.
- southerntofu 5y ago> The inevitable nature of uncompetitive systems. This is highly misinformed. The problem is precisely the introduction of competitiveness in a system which previously worked well. This is for example explained in Adam Curtis' documentary The Trap Part 2 [0] which you may find online in many places. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(British_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(British_TV_series)
- stevespang 5y ago
- anthk 5y agoHead to the woods to make a small hike, at least once in a week. Avoid polluted environments.
- never_a-pickle 5y agoAnd take every precaution possible against ticks. Untreated Lyme is debilitating.
- southerntofu 5y agoUpvoted because that's solid advice. The problem is you may not know about polluted environments. This may well be the case of a private contractor burying very dangerous chemicals in a clearing in the woods and polluting the surroundings, in which case hiking there is not gonna do you any good. Environmental pollution is everywhere industrial capitalism is. All the major scandals about waste disposal in Europe (including nuclear waste disposal!) should make us think twice before we as a society find it acceptable to allow anyone to produce that kind of dangerous substances.
- fsagx 5y agoEnvironmental pollution is everywhere industrial capitalism is Also where industrial communism was? Where industrial democratic socialism is? Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say: where industrial humans are or have been?
- Swenrekcah 5y agoProbably true, or perhaps: Wherever regulators have not been carefully selected and sufficiently empowered.
- southerntofu 5y agoWell that's a nitpicking argument which depends on your definitions. From what i understand, what you call "communism" i call "State capitalism" and what you call "democratic socialism" i call "liberal capitalism". Under all these systems, there's privileges: people who have more and people who have less, while communism is usually defined as a stateless/classless society (including by marxists). > Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say: where industrial humans are or have been? Indeed! Yet this formula ignores the ties between the two concepts. Industrialization and capitalism grew hand in hand with extractivism and colonization starting in the 16th century. Without the industry to build boats to exploit the overseas, capitalism could not exist: yet without massive accumulation of wealth, industry as we know it could not be created. This is not to say pollution is impossible without capitalism. But capitalism as a social structure incentivizes not to care because there's no (immediate) profit involved in respecting your environment, and because there will always be more areas to exploit and pollute: our overlords are now openly talking of colonizing Mars once they're done fucking things up over here! If you have intellectual curiosity for critiques of industrial capitalism, i strongly recommend the "End: Civ" documentary.
- avl999 5y agoIt looks like the province of New Brunswick is pursuing the "Don't Look Up" strategy in dealing with this. The federal government should step in and force the province's hand on investigating this.
- julz_hk 5y agoI'm surprised that Chronic Wasting Disease (a prion disease similar to CJD or BSE but found in wild and farmed deer, moose etc) isn't mentioned. A quick search however brings up this article linking prion disease, sewage sludge pollution and these cases. https://www.cp24.com/news/ask-questions-but-don-t-panic-about-mysterious-n-b-brain-syndrome-experts-1.5355355 https://www.cp24.com/news/ask-questions-but-don-t-panic-abou...
- anonuser123456 5y agoCWD is everywhere in the US. We’d be seeing this everywhere if it were CWD related.
- tomohawk 5y agoInteresting what happens when doctors no longer work for you, but can only work for the government monopoly.
- hluska 5y agoThis is only news because doctors resist. They’re doing great.
- aaomidi 5y agoThis is an annoying indirection in this discussion. Doctors working for everyone also means they work for the highest bidder. Remember the tabaco industry in the US and the doctors literally advertising it? How about doctors near areas of chemical spills getting $£€¥ from the companies to keep quiet about them? How about the opioid crisis that has killed thousands of Americans? Yeah. So, if you want to bring up a misleading example, at least think of the entire cycle of the "other side" of this. At the end of the day the thing is "interesting what happens when doctors are incentivized with capital and success is measured by how rich you are"
- sudosysgen 5y agoYou're right, and the worst is that private clinics and practices are allowed in Canada, and they have no interest in getting involved with this.
- refurb 5y agoThere are almost no private clinics in Canada
- sudosysgen 5y agoThat is untrue. There are almost a dozen within 30 minutes of where I live.
- refurb 5y ago
- elzbardico 5y agoWe must be very, very careful before assuming that the government and health authorities are lying here. The guardian usually goes for "the worst case scenario" and it is easy to see all kinds of causal relationships in a series of anecdotes when our fear response is triggered.
- booleandilemma 5y agoContagious dementia? What a terrifying article.
- Warlockcraft 5y agoThis neurological disorder is not baffling to me. It is expected because of mental health issues that come from poverty, homelessness, water pollution, food pollution, air pollution, climate change, toxins in manufacturing plants, toxic chemicals that oil companies release into our Earth's environment, unrecycled trash causing methane, dehumanizing censorship, cut-throat politicians, and so forth damaging Earth's environment including people's well-being. Impulsive consumers are consuming carcinogenic junk food, alcohol, products for smoking, etc. So, this neurological disorder does not surprise me one bit. It is the corporate oligarchs who pretend this is baffling to hide their profit-driven agenda to control our world at the expense of our well-being and Earth's environment.