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Sauna use as a lifestyle practice to extend healthspan
- jonahbenton 5y agoAm curious about comparatives between sauna and cryo. Extremes of all kinds encourage certain protective/restorative responses in these biological machines.
- ReptileMan 5y agoWhy not both? Usually during the winter you have access to extremely cold showers. Where I live it is what we do - fight with snowballs outside or in the pool and then in the sauna
- hkt 5y ago..where do you live? Sounds like a great tradition!
- ReptileMan 5y agoAny mountainous or northern country in europe that has spa hotels will do.
- DeBraid 5y ago> Heat shock proteins are produced by cells in response to exposure to stressful conditions (heat, cold, UV light, and during wound healing or tissue remodeling) > Many members of this group function to stabilize new proteins to ensure correct folding or by helping to refold proteins that were damaged by the cell stress. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_shock_protein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_shock_protein
- OrvalWintermute 5y agoI have read numerous things about the benfits of sauna, and fairly minimal downsides if healthy, and not mixed with drugs/alcohol and done in moderation. Although I love cold weather, and grew up some years in a fairly cold area, the concern I have about varying cryo treatment is the difference between passive cryo, and active cryo therapies involving exertion. This because of the well-known relationship between cold and heart attacks stemming from exercise with cold, often seen in snow shoveling [1], [2]. [1] https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/home-and-family/how-to/cold-weather-and-heart-attacks-with-dr-karol-watson https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/home-and-family/how-to/cold-... [2] https://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/the-heart-risk-that-comes-with-winter/ https://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/the-heart-risk-that-c...
- serpix 5y agoSnow shoveling is a strenuous exercise and gets the heart pumping fast. Temperature doesn't mean that much while doing hard workouts outside. Last winter I was drenched in sweat while shoveling my yard and it was -15c outside. Only wore slim pants and long sleeve shirt.
- bitL 5y agoDo both in a series, e.g. 5x sauna interleaved with 5x cryo. That works wonders but you need to get used to it so start slowly.
- throw1234651234 5y agoI feel like there is a balance here somewhere that the proponents never talk about - there is definitely a too much. Also, as with anything, the benefits are vastly overstated. Tangentially related - cold showers - when you read about them, it's some magic thing, when you do it, you just get used to it in a couple of days and it doesn't do much anything for you. Fasting for 3 days (with water). Nothing happens. You maybe lose half a pound of fat if you walk for 4+ hours on the last day. Etc. Anyway, the core point is that there is a significant shock if you jump from a sauna into a cold pool. Don't try it after reading and then get a heart attack.
- mirekrusin 5y agoWhat about bikram yoga then?
- jpmattia 5y agoMight as well skip to the end of the story and start training for Badwater. https://www.badwater.com/event/badwater-135/ https://www.badwater.com/event/badwater-135/
- moneywoes 5y agoWhere does someone find a sauna in our Covid times?
- ARandomerDude 5y agoTexas or Florida.
- itronitron 5y agoSeriously, in many part of the world during the summer you can just go outside. Although I wonder what the relative humidity is of a typical sauna and where it falls on the spectrum between Southeastern to Southwestern US.
- tsukikage 5y agoBuild one in your back yard. At the end of the day, it's a shed with a bench, a heater and a bunch of rocks. It might be good for your health or it might be woo, but at least you'll have a sauna and that's its own reward.
- NullPrefix 5y agoinb4 all the city folk with no back yards.
- Johnny555 5y agoMy townhouse neighbor had one built on her back deck - it's small, looks like only a single person can use it at a time, but it fits nicely on her deck, and only needs a 120V outlet. You can also find portable indoor saunas: https://www.amazon.com/portable-saunas-home/s?k=portable+saunas+for+home https://www.amazon.com/portable-saunas-home/s?k=portable+sau...
- nazgulnarsil 5y agoI had no idea these were so cheap. One of these followed by a cool shower sounds amazing. Thanks for linking.
- iombi3 5y agoSponsored by sauna businesses
- fsloth 5y agoActually there is lots of peer reviewed research supporting the idea that sauna is good for you. E.g. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2130724 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... This is by Finnish researchers. Finland has no “sauna industry” that would need lobbying, everyone basically has one or has access to one alredy.
- ng55QPSK 5y agobtw: It's only a rumor that every Nokia office has a sauna.
- paulcole 5y agoThis is kind of like why in America there’s no advertising for sodas because everyone buys them already.
- fsloth 5y agoThat's just it. In Finland sauna is something that is an expected utility in a house like a bedroom or toilet. So while there is research in how sleep or toilet behaviour affects health, there is no "bedroom" industry trying to upsell the benefit of having a distinct room for your bed, or a toilet industry convincing you it's a good idea to use the loo.
- cromulent 5y ago“Rhonda P. Patrick, Ph.D. and Teresa L. Johnson receive funding from FoundMyFitness.com, a science journalism website.”
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- hkt 5y agoIf the benefits come from mild hyperthermia, doesn't that mean they can also be achieved by having a bath that is slightly too hot?
- sova 5y agoYes, I think they would be about the same, although when you sweat in a sauna it goes to the floor, whereas in a bathtub it hangs out in the bathwater. So as far as cleansing of toxins goes, maybe one is better than the other. There was another article exploring the Japanese custom of bathing at onsen, and how it is also loosely linked to extended lifespan, so I believe you are correct with your statement.
- eli 5y agoToxins?
- jwiz 5y agoThey are like evil spirits.
- brianwawok 5y agoI believe there are some heavy metals that you can only really get out of your body via sweating. But “granola” people have built up a whole story about sweating and toxin clearing that AFAIK has no basis in science.
- NavinF 5y agoCitation needed for that first part. A quick google says there is no evidence that sweating out toxins improves health and the liver and kidneys remove far more toxins than sweat glands
- brianwawok 5y agoRight it’s right up there with getting your back cracked to improve digestion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/well/live/can-you-sweat-out-toxins.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/well...
- xriddle 5y agoI've been wanting to build one for a while but I see so many pre-owned infrared saunas available on the cheap. Any consensus if it's just as good? The article references one study that used infrared that reported positive effect. https://www.cfp.ca/content/55/7/691.short https://www.cfp.ca/content/55/7/691.short
- linux2647 5y agoMy wife has an infrared sauna and loves it. I’ve used it a few times and it gets pretty hot. You sweat a lot, so I’m assuming it’s getting the same effect
- frosted-flakes 5y agoMaybe the same health effects, but definitely not the same experience. A traditional Finnish sauna isn't just a hot room; löyly (the steam that is created by throwing water on the hot rocks of the stove) is a core part of taking a sauna, and that's missing in an infrared sauna.
- sergers 5y agoI would agree... Bought a 3 person infrared sauna (through Costco) for about 1600$ 12 years ago. There were periods we didn't use it but generally at least a couple times a week. Gets you hot, helps you sweat, can be relaxing in itself. But it's not same 'experience' as a traditional sauna. I would probably say it was one of the best purchases I have made based on how much we used it, still running strong, has definately helped us over the years.
- emerongi 5y agoIf a friend were to invite me to an infrared sauna, I would not go.
- amelius 5y agoSome people install them in their shower.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoI prefer steam rooms. If I am in there for 30 minutes I notice my IT bands in the legs are as loose as if I had stretched for an hour.
- loonster 5y agoIts much easier to overheat in a wet sauna.
- ng55QPSK 5y agoWe asked a finish colleague about smoke sauna (you heat with wood and a part of the smoke is lead inside), about details and reason. Answer: We don't need a reason for sauna.
- vanderZwan 5y agoThat is a more verbose reply than I would have expected in response to a question like that, and I'm not even joking
- gorkempacaci 5y agoI take it you have’t met many Finnish people.
- vanderZwan 5y agoI live in Sweden, so I have, and most of them would have just given me the Finnish piercing blank stare of "why are you hurting my brain with stupid questions like that?"
- nabla9 5y agoFormer US ambassador to Finland, Bruce Oreck had an unusual smoke sauna experience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQW27oJ3YU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQW27oJ3YU To be clear: The smoke comes inside only when you heat the sauna and goes out trough small opening in the wall. You bath after the fire is out, not when the sauna is full of smoke. What is left is the smell of smoke in the walls.
- emerongi 5y agoThis is correct, however you will still breathe in smoke "residue", which can be a bit uncomfortable and it will also cling to your body/hair. Even if you wash thoroughly after the sauna, you will notice a smoke smell on your hair. A smoke sauna is just an inferior version of the modern Finnish sauna. It's a bit of a hassle to prepare and I personally dislike the "smoke effect".
- sabujp 5y agoveritasium has a video about this that basically says the same thing about stressing the body (e.g. expose yourself to cold, eat less protein, do strenuous exercise) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt7LjqJ45k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt7LjqJ45k , extreme heat would probably also have the same effect
- nyjah 5y agoI sauna every single day. I started about 4 years ago. When I got my sauna I could only go for 2-3 minutes at time without having to take a break. Now I am comfortable for 15 minutes and struggling for last 5-7 minutes. I usually go 20-22 minutes at 175-195F. I enjoy it, I have no idea if there are major health effects. Its always rejuvenating in the moment and relaxing after. I bought an old school one. I ordered from https://almostheaven.com/ https://almostheaven.com/ and it was a great delivery experience so I recommend them, but there are plenty of other sauna companies out there. And the infrared is just not something I am familiar with so I stayed away. I purchased the small 4 person sauna, but got the bigger heater to get it hotter quicker. I don't regret it, but I don't recommend it either.
- mikepurvis 5y agoI hot tub at 100F, but the sauna is a lot hotter than that, wow! And I'm only in once or twice a week, definitely not daily.
- im3w1l 5y agoWater conducts heat better than air. It also disables cooling by perspiration.
- mikepurvis 5y agoYeah, I think most tubs are hard limited at 104 for safety reasons.
- konart 5y agoGoogle tells me 100F is just 37,8C. This is pretty damn cold for a tub, no? Just a bit warmer than body temperature.
- naasking 5y agoHave you tried walking outside in 37.8 C weather? It's blistering hot. Your body should be quite a bit warmer than the environment because we have to radiate heat away to preserve homeostasis. 21 C is a comfortable room temperature.
- botolo 5y agoI wonder if this could be the same with hot yoga. I had a session yesterday for the first time, and I sweat like never before.
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- teucris 5y agoDid anyone else think of Jitterbug Perfume[0] when they read this headline? 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitterbug_Perfume https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitterbug_Perfume
- SuoDuanDao 5y agoHuh. Never heard of that novel, but now I'm wondering why perfume seems to feature so frequently in french-influenced literature.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoSaunas are very interesting, but I think it's important to keep it in perspective: Many of the sauna papers theorize that the sauna might mimic some, though not all, of the positive effects of exercise: > Interestingly, many of the physiological responses to sauna use (described in detail below) are remarkably similar to those experienced during moderate- to vigorous-intensity aerobic exercise, and sauna use has been proposed as an alternative to aerobic exercise for people who are unable to engage in physical activity due to chronic disease or physical limitations If you don't have a sauna but you're looking for positive health benefits, some moderate intensity aerobic exercise could provide more health benefits anyway. Even heat shock proteins, which many people have come to associate with sauna use, are expressed during exercise. Of course, it's easier to sit in a sauna than to jog or run, but we should keep it in perspective: Saunas are currently at the peak of their hype cycle due to popularization on certain outlets like the Joe Rogan podcast. It's reminiscent of a few years ago when Reservatrol was all over podcasts and the news as a wonder supplement after popular media exaggerated the research. Exercise is still king. EDIT: Of course, both can be better than either one alone, but if you're limited on time and/or resources then don't feel left out: Exercise is much, much cheaper than a sauna.
- kiba 5y agoIt's not a dichotomy, plus you can get much hotter in a saunas then you can running. So it's not a completely analogous.
- newbamboo 5y agoBoth is better than just either.
- jxidjhdhdhdhfhf 5y agoYou can also go out for a run on a hot day during the summer and sweat your ass off. Feels bad and good at the same time.
- dsizzle 5y agoThe paper cites this study, which substantiates these claims https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/07853890.2017.1387927?src=getftr& https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/07853890.2017.13... Also on the topic of cheaper, at the end of the original paper is some evidence that hot baths offer similar benefits to saunas.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sdfjkl 5y agoIs there an energy efficient type of Sauna yet? It seems a huge waste of energy to heat a room to such high temperatures, using it for maybe an hour and then let it all puff away.
- tmpz22 5y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=are+saunas+energy+efficient https://www.google.com/search?q=are+saunas+energy+efficient
- frosted-flakes 5y agoThe rooms are small though. Is it a waste of energy to heat an entire oven to bake a cake, only to let the heat all puff away? It would only be a waste if you heated the sauna, but then didn't use it.
- sdfjkl 5y agoIt is! That's why the Omnia/Pardini oven is so much more energy-efficient.
- ng55QPSK 5y agoI remember heating a small sauna at a friends' house with wood (something like 3 square meters), you don't need much if the sauna is reasonably isolated to the outside.
- fogihujy 5y agoPlace the sauna in the basement. Heat goes up on its own.
- allenleein 5y agoSauna saved my life in some way. I was suffering from idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis for almost a year in 2019. I was devastated both physically and mentally. Two months before COVID, after watched Laird Hamilton's interview about Sauna, I started to do Sauna 20mins-25mins and practice meditation every day after a workout. After doing it for three months, I fully recovered from the IPF.
- cma 5y agoDid it stop progressing, or did the sauna reverse the scar tissue?
- allenleein 5y agoIt only stops progressing. According to my doctor, the scar tissue is impossible to reverse. Luckily, It didn't affect my cardiovascular ability. I can still surf big waves like a normal surfer.
- keshet 5y agoI recently saw an article about reversing fibrosis in mouse studies using an FDA-approved drug, e.g.: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210823170126.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210823170126.h... If I google "pulmonary fibrosis reversal" a number of things come up although they all appear to still be in the research phase. Never say never.
- allenleein 5y agoThank you :))!
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- dwaltrip 5y agoDoes anyone have other good resources on what saunas do to the body? I just started using the one at my climbing gym and was pretty amazed at how I felt afterwards. It's really nice. I'm very curious what is happening physiologically.
- throwawaysea 5y agoDuring COVID do public saunas require masks? Is that safe given the hot conditions? More generally what do sauna experienced people suggest we look for in selecting a place?
- mastax 5y agoFrom what I remember of Veritasium's video on ageing (https://youtu.be/QRt7LjqJ45k https://youtu.be/QRt7LjqJ45k) there is evidence to support the idea that various activities which are stressful for the body are good at slowing or even reversing ageing. They mentioned fasting, aerobic exercise, and exposure to cold temperatures, so it would make sense to me that saunas would work similarly.
- jahnu 5y agoGreat Interview here which touches on that too https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w9t5 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w9t5
- bradlys 5y agoSpecifically: https://youtu.be/QRt7LjqJ45k?t=857 https://youtu.be/QRt7LjqJ45k?t=857 0. Avoid DNA damage 1. Eat less (IF + caloric restriction) 2. Eat less protein 3. HIIT 4. Be Cold 5. Be Hot
- Abishek_Muthian 5y agooff topic/fiction 'Pop Squad' is the top rated episode of 'Love, Death & Robots Season 2'[1] in which humans have cracked longevity and so offspring (children) are banned; treated as pests and you can correlate what name 'Pop Squad' refers to. (Warning: Very dark theme). [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10468230/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10468230/
- albertzeyer 5y agoI go to the sauna regularly for over 30 years now. My parents have a Finish electric dry sauna at home in Germany. Also we did vacation in Finland regularly. And I lived in Finland for a year. Sometime in the 90ties, saunas became quite common in Germany for some reason. Initially it was only some single saunas in addition to some fun pool. Later that expanded to more and more saunas, and then we got whole sauna areas with 10-20 different saunas, and they became very common. We have many of such places now in every bigger city. Those sauna areas have lots of events like putting water with different herbs on the hot stones every 30 minutes in different saunas, where you also get fresh fruits, drinks or other things. These 10-20 saunas cover all common styles like Finish, Russian, Turkish, and many others. We also have a sauna at our university in Germany (probably also not really uncommon). It's not just very relaxing. Which by itself is already very nice. Esp also after some extensive sport session. But it's also a very nice social event. At the university, it's always nice to chat with lots of different people. When I lived in Finland (Erasmus), we also had a sauna at our student hostel, and basically every other place as well. It was always a regular event. It's also interesting to see the cultural differences. In Germany, everyone is naked, and the atmosphere varies a lot, depending where you go. Often it's quiet (more expensive public places), sometimes it's chatty (e.g. university), sometimes it can be annoying (cheap public places). In Finland, you also have public saunas, but nothing like these big sauna areas like in Germany. It's usually 1-3 saunas, and you wear swimming trunks. The student hostel sauna was probably a bit special due to the Erasmus students. Sometimes we went with other Finish students to their private saunas. They usually put lots of water on the hot stones. I also visited a friend once in Russia in Yekaterinburg. We also went to sauna a lot with other local friends of him, and also in our hotel. Russians put even much more water on the hot stones, and usually stay shorter in it (10 minutes or so), but make it hotter, and go more often. That was just my experience.
- awillen 5y agoWhat is an infusion in this context?
- albertzeyer 5y agoAh that might be a bad translation from German. When you put water on the hot stones, to get some steam. I just checked the English Wikipedia on sauna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna) and it seems that the English language does not have a word for this?
- arisAlexis 5y agoI am frequently paranoid about things that people don't think. One of those is inhaling microparticles from whatever wood/plastic combos get overheated there.
- bagacrap 5y agobut if that were really a problem wouldn't the effect show up in studies
- bradgranath 5y agoI'm sorry WTF is "healthspan"?