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Apple will let developers accept payment outside App Store
- oenetan 5y agohttps://ghostarchive.org/archive/xCvEZ https://ghostarchive.org/archive/xCvEZ https://archive.is/lnqON https://archive.is/lnqON
- rlalwani 5y agoThis is really big news. Waiting to see some more details. Apparently nothing changes if you decide to take in-app payments but you will be able to take payments outside App Store and avoid the 30% cut Apple takes.
- etaioinshrdlu 5y agoNot exactly. Developers were free to take outside payments for apps. Developers were forbidden from linking or talking about this from within the app. On their on website was OK. This change lets developers tell their customer about outside payments from within the app. From what I gather, apps are still required to accept Apple Pay if they offer any type of in-app purchase. And apps that do not work without an outside-app purchase are still rejected as well.
- n0w 5y agoBased on the news release from Apple it looks like developers still aren't allowed to link to this from inside the app. It only allows for out of app communications (like email)?
- pritambaral 5y ago> It only allows for out of app communications (like email)? That's not new.
- ElFitz 5y ago> And apps that do not work without an outside-app purchase are still rejected as well. Apps such as Netflix & Spotify?
- croes 5y agoSure, because the rules are the same for all. No wait, only for those that Apple does not necessarily want to have in its App Store.
- viktorcode 5y agoSame rules for all developers; not same rules for all kinds of apps. Those may have different criteria.
- ElFitz 5y agoHey then? Or any B2B SaaS’ app, for that matter?
- joering2 5y agoThis and another news they will allow more different pricing points, up to 500 from 100. I wonder if some PR/research team at Apple woke up one day and finally realize the outcry re scan of iPhone in iOS 15 may actually hurt the brand longterm.
- morpheos137 5y agoEverything that is done with a platform dependent app can be done with a platform independent web app. I don't know what the best way out of this is but app stores were a step back. Your phone could have one app...a web browser and maybe a few utilities like a calculator, calendar, clock. Even these could be implemented as web apps running in the browser.
- hossbeast 5y agoSounds like the slowest, most bloated way possible to design a calculator that runs on a phone.
- martzy13 5y agoAgreed. It seems like a great way to turn your web browser into an abstraction of an operating system.
- em-bee 5y agobut this is what apple originally intended, just phones weren't powerful enough at the time. later firefoxOS did exactly that. and it worked well. its only weak part was the lack of apps in the market.
- snuxoll 5y agoCries in Palm webOS. I still miss my Palm Pre - shame HP killed Palm.
- diskzero 5y agoHas too much time passed for FirefoxOS to become viable again? The latest moves by Apple seems to be changing public sentiment .
- commoner 5y agoKaiOS was forked from Firefox OS, and it's currently installed on over 150 million devices, mostly in India. Unfortunately, it's closed source. https://www.engadget.com/2019-02-26-kaios-third-mobile-operating-system.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-02-26-kaios-third-mobile-opera... https://www.fastcompany.com/90457544/kaios-most-innovative-companies-2020 https://www.fastcompany.com/90457544/kaios-most-innovative-c...
- DarthNebo 5y agoThey'd have to mend a lot of rules around not having links to your own website & what not as well
- oreally 5y agoI guess epic games just won?
- eclipxe 5y agoNo, this is unrelated
- croddin 5y agoThis is not the epic case, but now couldn’t epic direct users of fortnite to add credits to their account on epic’s website and bypass the apple tax, which is part of what epic wants out of their case?
- commoner 5y agoApple still forbids developers from mentioning or linking to less expensive ways to pay in the app, so Epic's complaint is still unsettled.
- SilverRed 5y agoYes but its is poor UI with extra friction. It's not so bad if you have a recurring subscription but it will kill you if you are trying to get users to manually pay regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if the drop in sales would account for more than the 30% fee. This is actually a bit of a genius plan from Apple because it does not actually help epic but makes it look like they have no reason to complain now.
- michaelmrose 5y agoThere is already legislation in process that would do a hell of a lot more than this change including giving vendors the ability to sell entirely via their own store. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/11/bipartisan-bill-targets-apple-and-googles-ability-to-profit-from-app-stores.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/11/bipartisan-bill-targets-appl... If lawmakers are already going to give you 200% of what you originally asked for why on earth would you settle for half?
- setpatchaddress 5y agoBecause even in the best case scenario, you’d have to wait a half decade before getting that supposed 200%. That’s assuming it passes at all. A bill must get actually passed by both houses of congress and signed into law by the president. Until then, it’s vaporware. And then, once a bill is passed, someone has to enforce it, and that enforcement likely has to work its way through the court system.
- smoldesu 5y agoThis is a step in the right direction, but it's not reform, nor is the kind of transparency that would have remedied issues like the Hey email scandal. In any case, it's an interesting departure from the "courageous" Apple that unabashedly removed the headphone jack and dismissed concern over on-device scanning as 'screeching'.
- viktorcode 5y agoActually, it is. Hey developers insisted on their right to tell customers where they can pay right from the app. And shortly they will have this right.
- quyleanh 5y agoIf this one becomes official, can Epic back to App Store? I guess no, since it will be a precedent for other escalations.
- eclipxe 5y agoThis is unrelated to Epic
- aero-glide2 5y agoBut some users told be that would be a violation of the ToS and Epic violated it so Epic should just shut up and play by the rules!
- lolinder 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28323688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28323688 Linking this here from the other thread, because the above comment cites the actual court documents, which clear up a lot of confusion I'm seeing on this thread. Apple's concession only applies to communications outside of the app using contact information obtained outside of the app. (Which, yes, was somehow disallowed before.) If your user signed up through the app? Tough luck. This "concession" only removes a rule that Apple know it never could have defended in court.
- arglebarglegar 5y agois it? I think that it is saying that you can now use info obtained in-app to contact someone about other payment methods (if you ask permission first)
- askvictor 5y agoI wonder if this will lead to apps not allowing the initial sign-up inside the app, thus potentially reducing usage of AppleID? Although it wouldn't surprise me if Apple were to forbid apps that don't allow in-app sign-up.
- gavanm 5y agoDidn't Apple require that apps must allow for at least some functionality without external signup? I seem to recall that that was an issue for the "Hey" email client.
- giansegato 5y agoA part from special cases (like bank apps), you have to always allow users to sign up in app. And if you allow to do that through identification providers other than email (eg. Google or FB), you have to provide Apple sign-in too.
- taurath 5y agoThey do, unless you’re Netflix, or certain “business” apps which they change the definition of every few days.
- dustyharddrive 5y agoThis is the worst tech news headline I’ve ever seen. The change the article is referring to is allowing developers to refer to non-IAP payments in communication with users outside the app (the fact that this was disallowed before blows my mind). This does absolutely nothing to change the in-app anti-steering rules Apple has. (edit: for clarity)
- Grustaf 5y agoBut I don’t get it, it has never been forbidden, isn’t that exactly how netflix and all other subscription business do it? Clearly they have communicated about the payment outside the app?
- simion314 5y agoApps were rejected if they had a link that would open a page that would give you the information that you have an option to get a cheaper price if you pay outside Apple. You can find on other comments (maybe on the other thread) the exact rule from Apple.
- Grustaf 5y agoYes of course, but that is surely still forbidden. The change is about communication outside the app.
- SilverRed 5y agoNetflix and spotify dump you on a page which says "You can not continue via the app". They have not been allowed to tell you how you can continue to set up a payment, only that it can not be via the app. Now they can say go to this url to set it up.
- saurik 5y agoAnd AFAIK even to this lame extent is only a narrow exemption for applications that sell access to content like article, movies, music, and books.
- uCantCauseUCant 5y agoBut you have to register the revenue and have to pay the apple-tax?
- rambambram 5y agoThanks Apple, for "letting" me accept payment outside the App Store. Thanks for not watching the streets and not intervening when somebody tries to pay me. All jokes aside, the wording is wrong. Apple does not "let me". I do. And Apple indeed doesn't stop me. In one sentence Apple not only 'backs down', but presents itself as the one who 'lets you'. Well, thanks Apple. :')
- chmike 5y agoIf I have a web app allowing people to register and pay a recurring fee. Can Apple require that people using the iOS version app pay the subscription through the web store and then pay the Apple tax ?
- rambambram 5y agoTo be honest, I have no clue. When they have physical control, they can block whatever they want. When you enter an agreement with them, they can legally force things. What they can not do - however - is act like they are the ones making the law, and saying stuff like they "let" you and me. They are not gods and their only prophet was a Cluster B disordered hippy who is now dead.
- shrikant 5y agoNo, this has never been the case. For example, you can buy a subscription to the Downdog app through thir website where it's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than via their iOS app. After this, you can continue using their iOS app as a fully paid subscriber just fine.
- chmike 5y agoThanx. Good news
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