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Cruise (GM) receives permit for fully driverless cars

• bigyikes 6y ago
  What does the vehicle energy source have to do with whether the vehicle is driverless or not? Why does this article seemingly conflate driverless technology with clean energy technology? Congrats to Cruise — more driverless vehicles & greener vehicles are a great thing, but I could have done without the activism.
  • swiley 6y ago
    The securities market.
  • rtlfe 6y ago
    Both are good. They're doing both. Might as well talk about both.
  • kube-system 6y ago
    It's a marketing piece. They're not conflating technologies; they're enumerating their value proposition.
  • petermcneeley 6y ago
    Is automating recharge easier than refill? What about the hundreds of extra watts of power consumed by the self driving brain (cpu gpu tpu)?
  • numpad0 6y ago
    For some reasons investor type people tends to associate Lithium rechargeable battery with automation. Probably an inference from the fact that SDC stack prefers hybrids with linear acceleration, or could be another Kool Aid ingestion.
    • tachyonbeam 6y ago
      I think it's because both of those things (battery EVs and driverless cars) are assumed to be "the future of cars", so they've been conflated together as future trends for automotive technology. You probably have Tesla to blame for that, as the company is pursuing both, and everyone is looking at Tesla. The technologies are orthogonal, but I do think it does make sense to pursue both of these things together. EVs are much more energy efficient. They will cost less energy to run. The choice to go to EVs also makes sense if you think about robotaxis, as EVs will require much less maintenance, they have much fewer moving parts. You also have the environmental argument to consider. Gasoline-powered Uber rides are not environmentally friendly. The general assumption is that robotaxis will decrease the price-per-ride to the point where there will be a big shift towards less people owning cars, and probably also less people using mass transit. That will mean less people taking buses and more people in cars. If all of your robotaxis are EVs, this is less of a concern.
• rtlfe 6y ago
  Driverless cars are going to be much better than driverful cars in cities since they follow the rules and behave predictably. But I do wish cities would get on board with the clear win of reducing the need for cars. SF is small enough that you could get anywhere pretty easily with an electric-assist bike if only there were sufficiently safe infrastructure. Combine that with better transit, and most people never need to use a car for daily life.
  • justapassenger 6y ago
    > Driverless cars are going to be much better that driverful cars in cities since they follow the rules and behave predictably But on the other hand, city environment is very unpredictable and lots of other actors there don't follow the rules. It'll be great in long term, but transition will be really hard.
    • rtlfe 6y ago
      It's hard for me to imagine how it could get worse in the short term. I encounter the following from human drivers on a regular basis, and I can't imagine any reasonable software doing them: * Notice me attempting to use a crosswalk and choose not to yield * Drive dangerously close behind my bicycle while honking for additional intimidation * Pass my bicycle at obviously unsafe distances * Park in crosswalks * Blatantly disregard lane markings * Run stop signs * Pittsburgh left turns
      • llukas 6y ago
        https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36649/watch-a-tesla-model-3-fail-an-automatic-braking-test-and-vaporize-a-robot-pedestrian https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36649/watch-a-tesla-model-3-fa... So let me rephrase what you just said, you want your life as a pedestrian to rely on software that is not verified by 3rd party in any way and only rely on good faith of manufacturer? Did it ever work well? Also such manufacturer can update software literally everyday without any external regression testing? I agree that most of what you mention won't happen but failure mode of AI cars would be much different and imho much worse as pretty impossible to predict.
• fallingmeat 6y ago
  Why is this allowed on public roadways and not confined to a lab until reasonable levels of safety (either via developmental process or time-in-service) can be demonstrated and verified by a regulatory agency? FAA wouldn't let fly a self-proclaimed 'safe' and fully autonomous aircraft around national airspace without such assurance. Why is this different?
  • peter422 6y ago
    Because what happened is exactly what you said?
    • fallingmeat 6y ago
      Did it? Which agency audited and approved the development process? What was the basis for conformance (to what minimum standards are these vehicle systems said to meet)? What standards are used to demonstrate development and test compliance to that basis?
      • freehunter 6y ago
        The article mentions they got a permit from the California DMV, so if you want answers to those questions I would start with the agency that issued the permit.
      • Voloskaya 6y ago
        They got approved by California DMV. The procedure to get such an approval is section 227.38 of [1]. There is no audit or anything of the sort. It's just a form to fill where the company must certify that their car is good enough and they have certain processes in place to take remote control of the vehicle if needed, and to deal with an eventual accident. > "The manufacturer certifies that the autonomous vehicles are capable of operating without the presence of a driver inside the vehicle and that the autonomous technology meets the description of a level 4 or level 5 automated driving system under SAE International's Taxonomy and Definitions for Terms Related to Driving Automation Systems for On-Road Motor Vehicles, standard J3016 (SEP2016), which is hereby incorporated by reference." Basically anyone can get approved, as long as they can prove they can deal with the consequences (sufficient insurance coverage etc.). It reminds me a little bit of the FAA letting Boeing certify the 737 Max themselves. [1]: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/Adopted-Regulatory-Text-2019.pdf https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/Adopted-Regula...
• slg 6y ago
  I wonder what happens when these cars get in an accident. I don't even mean in the legal sense. What happens in the immediate wake of an accident? Is there a note on the car about what the other driver should do? Is there a way for someone back in the office to communicate to the other driver on the scene? Does the other driver need to wait around until some human shows up?
  • shajznnckfke 6y ago
    Interesting. You’d definitely have some crash detection. A remote human operator could be assigned to take over when the car stops to drive around some obstacle in an unexpected situation. If a crash happened (whether or not it was remote controlled), you could have speakers/cameras/microphones allow the operator to communicate with bystanders until help arrives. Police would need to be called for a major accident, while for a fender bender you can probably just send a car with some security people to pay off the other driver and get them to sign an NDA, and drive the crashed car back to base.
    • nradov 6y ago
      Remote human operation is only possible with a reliable cellular data connection. There are still dead zones in many cities, especially in tunnels.
      • shajznnckfke 6y ago
        For a product that’s still being tested and not fully rolled out, you could block it from operating in those spots, if you can reliably map where they are.
        • owowow 6y ago
          How do you protect against sudden dead spots or spots where cellular data is degraded? It only takes one power cut, grumpy person with a cellphone jammer, or error in the cellular modem to cause a lapse in usable connectivity.
  • 6y ago
• bigbubba 6y ago
  Alternative title: GM receives a permit to use the general public as unsuspecting guinea pigs in their potentially lethal experiments.
• Animats 6y ago
  Why is this appearing as personal writing on Medium rather than as a press release from General Motors?
  • rtlfe 6y ago
    What do you mean by "personal"? It's on the Cruise blog.
    • umeshunni 6y ago
      I think OP was surprised that this was on medium.com/cruise/ rather than blog.cruise.com or blog.gm.com or some such. It's a strange shift in branding that has occurred over the last 10 years of social media, where once companies were very cautious on branding and required everything to be on their own domains, but are now comfortable making announcements on platforms that are not self hosted (e.g medium, but also Twitter, FB etc)
      • mr_toad 6y ago
        > I think OP was surprised that this was on medium.com/cruise/ rather than blog.cruise.com or blog.gm.com or some such. It’s probably easier to use medium than to go through all the red tape & endless delays involved in getting a blog set up at most enterprises.
        • judge2020 6y ago
          To add: Medium used to have a custom domain option but has since disabled new blogs from using it - although just recently they said they're working on bringing it back. https://help.medium.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003053487-Custom-Domains-service-deprecation https://help.medium.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003053487-Custo...
        • fomine3 6y ago
          What about to use WordPress.com rather than Medium? I'm annoying to read on Medium.
• bra-ket 6y ago
  Lawd have mercy
• umeshunni 6y ago
  > The pandemic has seen the killing of Americans on our roads accelerate to the fastest rate in 15 years. Less traffic caused people to drive like idiots. More speeding, drinking and drugs. Fewer seatbelts. I found this fact to be extremely surprising. Based on looking at daily traffic patterns, I would have assumed that there are fewer deaths on the road this year than previous years.
  • kart23 6y ago
    There's definelty been less deaths since driving has gone way down. Hes just saying the death rates are higher.
    • whoisburbansky 6y ago
      Just to be clear, this means there's fewer accidents but the ones the do happen are more fatal?
      • tails4e 6y ago
        I would guess the accidents per mile driven could be up also, and if people are really reckless the deaths per mile driven and per accident could have risen
      • Swizec 6y ago
        More deaths per mile driven. It means fewer people are on the road and driving less, but the ones that are, are more likely to die. For example: You drive tipsy 1x/month after a party and commute every day. Your death rate is X. During corona, you don’t commute, but still drive tipsy 1x/month. Your death rate is way higher. Maybe even 10X. Crucially, your death rate per month remains unchanged. PS: part of the effect is also lack of practice. You think your reflexes and skills are the same as when you drove daily. They are rusty. This part kills a lot of middle age motorcyclists jumping back on the bike after 20 years.
      • Tiktaalik 6y ago
        The nature of vehicles is changing as well in a not great way. Trucks and SUVs are dramatically more dangerous to pedestrians than cars.
• glaucon 6y ago
  > Fewer seatbelts Oh yeah that's totally my response to a quiet road, "hey kids, not much traffic, pop those boring old belts". Come to that how much of the USA actually allows people to not wear belts ? Surely not much ?
  • bluGill 6y ago
    I would guess that it is more like parents tell the kids to buckle up, but they will leave the driveway and get to the end of the street before they check that the kids bucked up.
• ilaksh 6y ago
  It's a little strange that they didn't even mention in passing plans or even thoughts about single-passenger vehicles. Because their sort of car-pool thing with no wheel or place for a driver is going to make people think twice at least with Covid right now. Maybe that's why Kyle's video is at the bottom and not mentioned in the article. I feel like a big issue holding back small pod transport is the fact that vehicles are generally all designed for many passengers and 3000 pounds. And I think a big part of that is safety. The likelihood of death for a really small single passenger vehicle is just much greater with all of these massive cars on the road (generally with only one occupant). In my mind there is room (especially in places like Texas) for new types of smart cities. And you can build them from the outset with autonomous single-passenger small pods in mind. In my scenario the regular vehicles would need to be parked away in a commuter hub and the transportation in the city would be fully automated. This will save a lot of energy with very small single passenger vehicles as compared to the 5+ passenger vehicles normally taken by individuals around town. And in this city there is no danger of the small pods running into a larger vehicle driven by a human since it's not permitted. I am actually thinking some of these companies may be doing a redesign where the shared space of the pool cars are broken up into little airtight compartments. Personally I would prefer that even if there wasn't a pandemic.
• Karishma1234 6y ago
  That post does not sound like written by a mature CEO but rather some new kid trying to appear dramatic like Musk. There is too much virtue signaling in that post around climate change and pandemic, with very dubious assumptions. Needless focus on "electric cars" and very little info about the self driving part of it. If your company's objectie is reduction of carbon emission you should focus on efficiency and cleaner energy. If your objective is to sell electric car please tell us why it is better than Tesla. Ah, and it can drive itself too ? tell me more about it.
• ivan1783 6y ago
  "navigating one of the most difficult driving cities in the world." .....cue laughter from anywhere, India
• dmode 6y ago
  It is incredibly courageous for Cruise to test this in SF. Perhaps the less crowded streets in SF is a good opportunity, but there are some tough street intersections to navigate. One example is the Townsend and 8th street roundabout near the Zynga office. It is a hodgepodge of cars, bikes, scooters, pedestrians all entering the roundabout at the same time. If there are any Cruise folks here, I am super interested in hearing their thoughts on handling an intersection like that. Also, SF has massively expanded biking infrastructure with quick builds throughout. These are incredibly well striped road, but you have to pay attention when the bike lane merges, especially while making right turns. I want to learn more on how Cruise can handle that
• theresa45 6y ago
  There is actually so much to bear when it comes to relationship. No matter how good you are to them it doesn’t mean that they will treat you the same way. It's so sad to discover my woman whom I thought could be a back up but it seems I have been deceiving myself for months. I need to desperately know what she's been up to lately so I had to reach out to webhubghost (@) gmailcom who got so many truthful and amazing reviews on the internet to remotely get into her mobile phone. He got that done in a twinkle of an eye, the service was delivered perfectly I was able to see her whatsapp messages, call logs, text messages which was quite amazing and I figured she lied to me about all the money i sent to her and her mails were the worst I could ever imagine