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MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019)

382 points by antalk 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jonplackett 7y ago
I really hope they haven't finally replaced the 'revolutionary' keyboard only to throw in a 'revolutionary' new fan system...
- wodenokoto 7y ago
  Would it be a pun to call a fan revolutionary?
  - jonplackett 7y ago
    Haha. I guess all fans are revolutionary then. But this one is is comes with extra revolution for every USB-C port you use.
    - Cthulhu_ 7y ago
      Makes me wonder if there's technology for fanless fans, moving air without spinning fans.
      - rgoulter 7y ago
        Dyson's visually look like this. https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters/dyson-cool-overview.html https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters/dyson-cool-overview.h...
        sooheon 7y ago
        These have fans in the base.
        FabHK 7y ago
        That's not something I expected to read in the description of a fan: "Purifier and fan. Not wifi compatible."
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - blakesterz 7y ago
    More and more on the Mac hardware it feels like "revolutionary" now means it "just works" again. The one comment in that thread: "Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU."
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      I think you missed the joke.
  - xxs 7y ago
    good one!
- trollied 7y ago
  I was taking the whole Apple MBP keyboard thing with a pinch of salt, but the keyboard on mine has been degrading significantly over the last few weeks & I'm going to have to take it in for repair. Grr.
  - blackearl 7y ago
    Best to keep that pinch of salt away from the keyboard unless you want it to become unusable.
- antalk 7y ago
  With revolutionary noise-cancelling earphones* *sold separately
dharma1 7y ago
The thermal design of Macbook pros just isn't adequate for >4 core high clock speed CPUs, especially with a discrete GPU thrown in the mix too. I had one of those i9 2018 MBPros and it was always super hot. Much happier now with a 13" 4 core MBpro, it runs quite cool and without any fan noise most of the time. Built a separate AMD 3900x PC with an Nvidia GPU for heavy lifting, and can use that remotely with the MBpro if needed.
- antalk 7y ago
  For what it's worth, this only occurs when connected to an external monitor -- which causes the discrete GPU to overheat, even with no apps running. Using the built-in display (with the discrete GPU on) is fine.
  - tobyhinloopen 7y ago
    I’m using 2 external displays (one 4K) and it’s not overheating and the fans are completely silent. My 16” i9 is MUCH quieter than my 15” 2015 Macbook pro, and it’s not like i’m browsing Facebook: i’m constantly compiling and running tests on every file save. My macbook feels warm but not hot, even when I touch it at the fan exhausts. I do notice my battery only lasting about 2,5 hours though. Playing games it runs great and while you can hear the fans, it’s much better compared to my 15” 2015. Personally i’m really impressed with the cooling and performance of the 16”
    - smashedtoatoms 7y ago
      This has been my experience as well. Fans kick on on long compiles, and that's about it.
- pentae 7y ago
  I wish someone would publish a guide for MacBooks based on palm rest idle temperature, having a hot sweaty palmrest (especially in warmer climates) bugs me more than having a bit of fan noise and if it was clear and transparent maybe Apple would design better thermal solutions.
sumo89 7y ago
Oh boy we've never seen this issue with macbooks before...
eralps 7y ago
Just about a week ago, there was another thread about Macbook 16-inch Fan [1] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 There are tools that can measure some sensor temp and control the fan speed according to that on Mac. I was using it on my older MacBook Pro and the fan usage was relatively better than when it was set to auto.
ThouYS 7y ago
oh oh
dragonsh 7y ago
I was planning to buy MacBook 16-inch as I am still on 2014 edition which in my view were one of the best MacBooks. I simply hate that unnecessary Touch Bar, was hoping Apple will remove it but didn’t. Thought then of getting 16-inch as they have an esc key. Waiting for this kind of review, I will put on hold purchasing it until get a clarity on fan noise. My current old MacBook fan do make some noise but only under load of games. Hope Apple can go back to basics and redo the MacBook Pro to make it similar to 2014 with new hardware.
- jhabdas 7y ago
  mid-2014 editions had only one flaw: macOS. Easily remedied.† † https://habd.as/post/invisible-arch-linux/ https://habd.as/post/invisible-arch-linux/
  - fortran77 7y ago
    BTW
- joakleaf 7y ago
  I moved from 2014 15" (i7) to 16" (i9). It is an upgrade, but not by much... The touch bar gets in the way, but I use external keyboardS 90% of the time, so it isn't that big of problem. I would have gladly payed extra for F-keys. The larger track-pad also gets in my way often. Fan noise is significant compared to the old model. USB-C-only is quite annoying. I never missed a port on the 15", whereas now ... well... I bought it to get a performance boost (compiling/ML-training/etc.). The performance upgrade isn't really that significant. I recommend waiting a little while longer...
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    My 2014 13” i5 broke last year after a drop so I bought a 2019 6 core 15”. I was pretty surprised that the performance of the new device isn’t really that much better. And the hardware feels worse. I think they should go back to the 2015 form factor, maybe replace some USB-A with C but otherwise leave it.
  - 7y ago
petercooper 7y ago
I've found if I push the MacBook 16 at a certain point on the bottom of the chassis, it makes weird squeaking noises like there's a bird trapped in the machine. Other than that, a perfect machine so far!
baybal2 7y ago
What can I say as a person somewhat close to electronics engineering: Look at that single skinny heat pipe, it will get saturated very fast. Second to that, look at those tiny radiators, they are clearly not capable to discharge the full heat flux. I simply don't see any signs of proper thermal engineering there. Apple says "we are listening now, and here is a new cooling design," then it comes out to be even less adequate that the old one. I can't think of anybody else capable of trolling up their customers like that. If anybody wants to dish out something on an order of $1.5m to do a contract manufacturing run for a properly designed full sized laptop, give me a note. I do have some tricks in mind how to make 40W+ CPUs work in a relatively compact case.
- walrus01 7y ago
  If I had to guess they know what they're doing engineering wise, but they're taking a calculated (and poorly thought out, in my opinion) risk that a small percent of people will regularly peg the cpu at 100% usage, and they're further relying upon clock rate throttling and the cpu die thermal sensor to keep things from melting down. Or the management/product design group has overridden the input of the people who actually know how to design thermal solutions, because the laptop CANNOT be 2mm thicker. Whenever I see a laptop with a >15W TDP CPU in a super slim package with a tiny heatsink/fan unit, no matter if it's from Apple or another vendor, I'm very suspicious. At least the 12 inch Macbook from a few years ago which was truly fanless uses an appropriately low powered CPU. disclaimer: used to do systems engineering for a server manufacturer a long time ago, after you've gone through a dozen iterations of ways to mount skived copper heatsinks on dual socket motherboards in 1U cases, with various fan solutions, you realize that everything that is not acoustically terrible is some sort of compromise. People are trying to put CPU+GPU+RAM packages that are anywhere from 25W to 45W TDP in laptops that are physically too small for them.
  - retSava 7y ago
    > relying upon clock rate throttling and the cpu die thermal sensor to keep things from melting down Seems like that wasn't working fully, since they report having GPU issues after stress testing the computer (external GPU worked fine). And that is worrying. Is the thermal stress shutdown from OS, or onboard the GPU/CPU?
nujabe 7y ago
What's disturbing is that Apple seem to be deleting posts: After attempting to be part of the solution; spending a ton of time testing, providing information in the community, communicating with Apple Engineers and Apple Business Team, our most recent post was deleted as "Speculative". We have spent over $300,000 on Apple hardware over the years both business and consumer and now our voice has been muted. How can we move forward using Apple? Instead of deleting our posts, how about send it to management?
- bangonkeyboard 7y ago
  I was going to ask where that quote was from before realizing that there is a 44-page thread beyond the two highlighted responses.
  - armitron 7y ago
    Yes, and most of that thread is posts full of noise and faulty suggestions that add nothing to the discussion but serve to dilute the original post and the few posts with relevant information. Which is why I seldom bother with discussions.apple.com. It's a cesspit.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- jmull 7y ago
  Considering the existence of the long support thread, Apple doesn't seem to be trying to suppress this issue. And that poster has many posts, so isn't being targeted either. Could it be the posts were deleted legitimately? Some people in that thread are pretty angry and may have let it get the better of them.
  - marriedWpt 7y ago
    Given Apple's less than ethical history, I'm not sure it's reasonable to give them benefit of doubt. They might have an excuse that fans can believe, but the real reason is to suppress bad press.
sub7 7y ago
I just installed and set up Ubuntu after a long time. IMO both Windows and Linux have totally caught up to OSX and while their hardware is still marginally better, that gap is on a downward trend as well. With mobile, I think Android is close on software and far superior on hardware. I wonder what happens to Apple stock if they don't get a new product line that takes off - cars, TVs etc. Will ApplePay eating PayPal and Stripe offset this downward trend enough?
lqs469 7y ago
Cook is a complete businessman, best at cutting costs, increasing profits and attracting customers to buy more. Don't forget that memory began to weld on the motherboard because this can only be replaced and not upgraded. He was a businessman, not an engineer or a designer, and that was the beginning of apple's decline.
- ed_blackburn 7y ago
  He's Gates Ballmer.
- alwayseasy 7y ago
  What metric are you using to point to Apple's decline since Tim Cook came into the company? Product lines, revenue, customers, market cap, employees, daily client interactions, brand value, customer satisfaction?
  - securityfreak 7y ago
    I believe he is using the far more superior metric, called “subjective perception”.
  - dman 7y ago
    Choice as a customer - choice of upgrading the RAM, choice of getting to keep the data in case the motherboard fails, choice of picking a non genius bar repair shop, choice of looking at product schematics, choice of being able to buy legitimate spare parts for Apple products
  - ardy42 7y ago
    > What metric are you using to point to Apple's decline since Tim Cook came into the company? Product lines, revenue, customers, market cap, employees, daily client interactions, brand value, customer satisfaction? Not everything can be measured, or measured practicably. Qualitative judgments are valuable. Looking at things too much through the lens of metrics can make you blind to many things.
    - 7y ago
luisrudge 7y ago
I have the same issue with a 2016 15" model. When I plug an external monitor, the place you put your wrists on gets super hot. I had to buy an external keyboard/trackpad long before my keyboard started to fail.
gnudad 7y ago
This appears to be a software bug in macOS or AMD's drivers. Plugging in an external monitor at certain resolutions (1440p@60Hz in my case) will cause the AMD GPU to draw 18-20W constantly, no matter what it's doing. This causes the total system draw to increase from ~10W to ~30W. All that heat has to go somewhere. If I change the resolution of my external monitor to 1080p the AMD GPU drops to ~4W and the fans are quiet again. A lot more information available in this long MacRumors thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-22 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...
- splatcollision 7y ago
  Can you share how you're measuring GPU power draw? I have just migrated to a 16" MBP with the AMD chip, and also use an external display some of the time. Have noticed the fan noise and heat but it hasn't been a problem yet.
  - masklinn 7y ago
    I’d guess they measure total draw and compare against their baseline eg when they say the GPU draws 20W it’s 20W more than whatever the draw is when only using the internal display.
  - gnudad 7y ago
    I use iStat Menus and look at the "Radeon High Side" sensor for GPU power draw under the Sensors menu icon.
    - splatcollision 7y ago
      Cool, thanks for that
- nileshk 7y ago
  I have medium-to-high fan noise/RPM consistently when connected to an Apple TB display (2560x1440@60Hz), but it's much quieter when connected to a 2560x1600@60Hz monitor. So if it is very specific resolutions, but not necessarily higher resolutions in general, that matches my experience.
rorykoehler 7y ago
>I have noticed that Chrome is a problem I use Firefox and my machine is silent. Typing on it now. 20+ tabs open and about 20 others apps open. I can't hear my machine without putting my ear against it.
nvch 7y ago
I have an issue with an external monitor, confirmed with multiple users on MacRumors forums [1], that looks like a software bug. When using opened Macbook with an external screen power usage by discrete GPU is not less 19W almost no matter what (resolution, screen size, etc.). In my case, with new LG 5K, GPU power usage in clamshell mode is near 5W and with the lid open – 19.5W (and the laptop is too noisy to be usable as an additional screen). [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-22 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...
tsp 7y ago
I waited multiple years to upgrade from a MacBook Pro 2014, but was disappointed year after year, because I read about heating issues, the bad butterfly keyboard or the useless touch-bar. In 2019 I felt like things are not going to get any better, so I bought a MacBook Pro 2019. Was quite unhappy that I didn’t wait a bit longer after I saw the 16inch version coming out a few months later, because it had an escape key (which I really miss on mine), but now I am kind of happy that I have the 2019 15 inch version where the heating problem does not appear. The touch-bar really is completely useless, I find myself tapping the wrong "keys" all the time. Changing volume was so easy before, now it became really hard. But most of all I miss the escape key. If it wasn’t for macOS I had long picked a Windows laptop.
- zarmin 7y ago
  I feel your pain. This may help: https://www.haptictouchbar.com/ https://www.haptictouchbar.com/
arexxbifs 7y ago
Interesting. I have an Acer Swift 1 with passive cooling and just the integrated Intel graphics, and it seems to run a couple of degrees hotter when I've got an external monitor connected. Not so much that it worries or bothers me, I just think it's kind of strange.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Naomarik 7y ago
Been using Mac primarily since 2011 and sad to see everything keep declining with Apple's software and hardware quality. When programming an app and its backend with react native/clojure my 2015 Mac Pro gets way too hot and slow. Just built a Ryzen 3600 desktop with 32 gigs of RAM for about 1/4th the price as the cheapest 16 inch Macbook. Windows with WSL2 has been extremely good and I'm satisfied with my development environment. Key things were disabling automatic updates via group policy, setup autohotkey to keep all my MacOS keybindings, use X410 to display emacs and using the new windows terminal. Development is super fast, compilation is fast, git is fast, everything just works. Attempted to switch with WSL1 awhile a year ago or so and while it was okay, I wasn't very happy with it. My mac just sits there now mainly being a coaster until I need to test iOS builds.
- mns 7y ago
  I think you are underestimating the cost of your setup. There is no way in my opinion that you can build a decent PC with 1/4 price of a MacBook Pro. European prices might be higher, 2699 official price for base 16" (you can actually get it for 2399 from official resellers). But still 675 Eu for a proper setup is impossible. Just the CPU and RAM will cost you a bit over 300. I know you are just making a point, but it is a false statement that people constantly make when discussing prices of Apple hardware and this thing is getting quite annoying. Yes, they are more expensive, but when you look at the exact components, specs, you will find that Dell or Lenovo could be only around 10 to 20% cheaper in best case scenario.
  - aquaticsunset 7y ago
    I mean, it's not that outlandish. It's such an apples to oranges comparison but performance for dollar is still in the "build your own desktop" side of the arena, as it's always been. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc
    - sounds 7y ago
      My guess is Naomarik didn't buy a case, power supply, or new SSD.
Shivetya 7y ago
related only by brand... I upgraded from a 2013 iMac to a 2019 model recently for two reasons, the primary being my 2013 used an Nvidia 780m chipset and Nvidia no longer made compatible drivers and Apple wasn't doing any real updates either. Second I wanted he higher resolution screen. However, the fan which I rarely had come on in the 2013 is hyper active at times in the 2019 even with similar content. Oddly it is not consistent. Now I did go from i5 to i9 which do run hotter but they are very spiky as in the seem to flare a core or two enough to excite the fan logic. The GPU while getting warm (Vega 48) will less likely cause the fans to spin up past 2k than a random cpu spike. So either the fan logic is wonky or the processor logic is. While I understand that core balancing is complex it just seems to randomly jump single channels far more often than load across the whole
peterclary 7y ago
I have a MBP 16 with a Philips 48.8” 5120x1440 monitor, running with the lid closed. I have the extra 8GB on the GPU. The only time I’ve noticed fan noise was when I was running Minecraft with Optifine and a very aggressive shader pack. At first I thought the hissing sound was from rain in the game. Apart from that I haven’t really heard anything.
DaveSapien 7y ago
I'm going to miss Turbo Boost Switcher Pro, when apple kills it...
sgt101 7y ago
I got one, heard the fan, felt the heat. Switched on "Automatic Graphics Switching" in the power saver options and as I type it's on my lap as quiet as a mouse and as cool as a cucumber.
- 333c 7y ago
  For me (and at least one other commenter in this thread), the issue occurs when plugged into an external monitor. The linked thread seems to indicate the same. Any thoughts on that? I'll check the relevant setting.
  - dnissley 7y ago
    I think graphics switching only works when running on battery power. Wonder if there's a way of make it still work when plugged in...
    - sgt101 7y ago
      Ahh - probably true. It was annoying me playing world of warcraft and I turned down the settings to shut it up - I forgot that. Not an option if you are using it for your "work" workflow. There must be a kill switch somewhere; I'll have a look.
      - sgt101 7y ago
        right - I've had a look and I found https://github.com/codykrieger/gfxCardStatus https://github.com/codykrieger/gfxCardStatus. I cloned it and then compiled it with xcode. I found one problem which is a badly encoded file, which I fixed using the file inspector to set the encoding and then saved it. After that it built and runs. On my 16' 2020 MBP it allows me to turn off my 5300M. When I open WOW it refuses to allow the card to be turned off, its web site says that's what it will do with an external monitor too.
dep_b 7y ago
My new i9 15" is a lot cooler and more silent than the i7 2015 it's been replacing. I guess doing a completely clean install with nothing else than using iCloud to sync data from the old machine fixed a lot of software related performance issues that piled up on the old one. I expect the 2015 to be a lot better again after a clean install. I think most of the problems on the 2019 are software related. Not seeing any of the heat / performance problems mentioned by other people, the only really weird thing I've seen is that the color palette was way too dark getting out of sleep until I minimized and maximized brightness. That helped until the next sleep where it was too bright this time and the brightness trick didn't work anymore. Finally fixed it by switching between another color profile and back. Otherwise TouchID was pretty good, don't really notice the touchpad in any way good or bad and the touch bar goes largely ignored just like the row of keys it replaced. Keyboard action is nice, it's slightly more clicky than the 2015 but still has about the same travel. I really doubt anybody still on a 2015 or older will regret getting the 16". Probably the software problems get ironed out over the course of the next months.
p1necone 7y ago
This isn't surprising at all to me. All Apple has to do is put "i7" on the box and their customers will eat it up and then just browse Facebook and YouTube. Their whole shtick for years has been selling "pro" devices to regular consumers who aspire to be pros.
seanalltogether 7y ago
I like to keep my macbook on an elevated stand when its connected to monitor/keyboard/mouse. Does anyone know of a passive cooling stand (no fans) that works with macbooks? Maybe just something with a giant finned heatsink that presses right up against the middle of the case or something?
- SamBam 7y ago
  I use a Rain Design mStand. It's basically just a raised chunk of aluminum. It probably passively cools to some extent (it claims it does), but I have no metrics to say how much. (Of course, you could possibly also lay a freezer pack on the bottom of the stand, and maybe it would wick heat away even faster, and still passively...)
  - seanalltogether 7y ago
    So I'm just checking out a video review of that stand. It looks like there's rubber pads that maybe raise the laptop up a bit off the plate. Can you tell me if your laptop is actually laying flush against the aluminum plate, or is there an air gap?
crusso 7y ago
On a related note, I have a 2018 MBP touchbar and it's currently out at Apple so they can replace the bulging battery. My guess is that it runs too hot sitting on my wooden desktop. Anyone have any great recommendations for quiet cooling systems?
treyfitty 7y ago
To be fair, I run 2 4K monitors at 60hz and I don’t hear my fans doing normal work (Excel, Firefox, PyCharm, Jupiter Labs). I use a DisplayLink hub (idk if that matters, but I’ve heard DisplayLink is driven by CPU) However, when I watch a 1080p movie, no matter what player, on just the laptop display, the mouse cursor feels sluggish and my fans are on 50-75% at all times.
- WanderPanda 7y ago
  gotta love dem new codecs
- kevingadd 7y ago
  DisplayLink for 4k60 involves compression, yes. So it's probably driving the monitor through a different flow and relying more on the CPU instead of relying on the GPU (the latter will naturally increase GPU heat dissipation)
- TheTon 7y ago
  It sounds like something is forcing the window manager to composite your cursor rather than leaving it as a hardware overlay. That’s the usual cause of sluggish feeling cursor. Now, as to what’s doing that, it could be AirPlay mirroring or perhaps some screen capture/sharing software, or maybe it is related to your displays.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  I have this happen too, on my 2014 at work. In Chrome, like clockwork, any time I watch a video that isn't on YouTube my fans spin up to the point where it's distracting. Not sure if I've had it affect my mouse cursor, though. I do have a 1080p monitor plugged in but I never have fan issues outside of watching videos.
gwbas1c 7y ago
One thing I miss about Steve Jobs is that he hated fan noise. The fact that Macs only made noise under extreme load was something that I really appreciated. I'm at a loss for what I'm going to do for my next laptop. Windows 10 still has performance issues that Macs don't have, but Windows laptops clearly have better hardware. Anyone make the switch back to Windows? (Every time I try Linux it feels like a dumpster fire, even though I want to like it.)
- rubidium 7y ago
  Switched to a Surface and it's great (except the touchscreen is useless). Use a remote desktop + homebuilt tower when I need more performance (computational simulations). Use onedrive to sync everything between them. It's not perfect, but it does just work.
- jillesvangurp 7y ago
  I've been considering both Linux and Windows (with the linux subsystem, obviously) but so far can't bring myself to do it. I'm leaning towards Linux. My main beef with both ecosystems is the high amount DYI and tweaking needed to get things functioning and that I actually need to make an indepth study of exactly which variants of which hardware to get in order to get a linux setup that works. With windows I have no love for Windows specifically but would appreciate access to a wider selection of games. For work, all I need is docker and access to linux/unix tooling. Homebrew and docker for mac cover my needs but I've been hearing good things about windows and the linux subsystem. Obviously that kind of stuff works great on Linux as it all runs natively there. IMHO the big problem with Linux is that people are still thinking about distributions like it is the early nineties. It does not make sense to me for small (or even bigger) linux distributions to even pretend to be able to maintain huge software repositories with distribution specific builds of all OSS known to mankind. What's needed here is people just agreeing on how to package up binaries such that they can be run on any linux distribution after their developers test, sign and release them. I saw this in action when one of my favorite OSS tools released a major version a few weeks ago and I was able to install the mac build while world + dog was complaining about a lack of pre-packaged binaries for their favorite Linux distros (pretty much all of them). I'm talking about Darktable, which is one reason I'm seriously considering a move to Linux because I absolutely love it and it runs best on Linux. I installed it within 2 hours after it was tagged on Github. That for me sums up the problem with Linux: the application ecosystem remains a mess of incompatibility and middlemen adding dubious value (mainly verifying it does not clash with their other customizations for other packages). IMHO this is a reason why the most widely used consumer versions of Linux are basically things like Android, ChromeOS, and a wide range of software for TVs and other embedded hardware; none of which involve a mainstream Linux distribution or package manager. The only package managers you need on a mac are for installing OSS software. Normal software is just a simple drag and drop to install and move to trash to uninstall. Apple nailed this already with OS 9 before Linux was a thing. MS with its need for custom installers never figured this out either. Docker is kind of doing this for servers these days and snaps look promising but still a bit flaky. I think it's telling that the hope for gaming on Linux is basically Steam doing the hard work of providing a way to install software on Linux that is compatible with the goals of software developers that want to release software directly to users instead of to some middlemen that need to repackage, modify, an tweak a custom package of your software.
hawkweed 7y ago
My biggest painpint with mbpro 15 2018 is double keystroke problem. Just driving me nuts. Apart from that, I would never change mbpro for any other machine.
- fortran77 7y ago
  I agggree! MaccbookPPro is the bbest! I ffeel sorrry for those Windozze peopplee.
danielstocks 7y ago
I'm on a 15" MBP and I'm really missing the physical escape key (especially as a long time vim user). I was considering the 16" MBP, but I think I'll just go ahead with my Hacking-tosh build instead! I spend 99% of my productive time at my desk. For anything on the move I'm more inclined to go "light", a 13" Air perhaps`. I was hoping iPad would cut it, but I'm afraid iPad OS is too limiting.
DerekRobot 7y ago
My ASUS GA502 makes all kinds of noises. It has a loud coil whine when the keyboard backlight is off/dim, and the audio chipset is constantly popping the speakers by turning on and off to save power. I bought it open box; the buyer probably went insane from the noise before they could even set up Windows.
nottorp 7y ago
So did they at least fix the keyboard?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- conchy 7y ago
  yes, it's a lot better. first time a new MacBook Pro shipped with a new keyboard that is actually better to type on.
ashishb 7y ago
Again why isn't there a single good premium Linux laptop in the market yet?
- _bxg1 7y ago
  There is... a single one https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/dells-2019-xps-13-developer-edition-the-best-linux-laptop-til-the-2020-version/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/dells-2019-xps-13-de...
bluedino 7y ago
There isn't anything wrong here. One of the confusing issues is that people say, "I'm only using 15% of my CPU, the fans should not be coming on." What they don't realize, is that using 1 core running at turbo speeds is only going to show up as 15% of the CPU, but draw enough power and create enough heat to trigger the fans! Another thing that some of these posters are not aware of, is that running these temperature/fan speed monitoring applications can use quite a bit of power! They're drawing all these fancy graphs, the applications are usually poorly optimized. Even the Mac OS Activity Monitor is a hog in Catalina for some reason and can take 15-20% of a CPU all by itself. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the other apps people have running. You can see in their screenshots or menu bar they have Dropbox, 3rd party wireless keyboard/mouse programs, they might have 10 things running in just their menubars! They need to look in the Activity Monitor's Power section to see what the real culprit is. Plugging an external monitor into your MacBook will enable the dGPU and that will create more power draw, this is nothing new: https://i.imgur.com/9KmLPMX.png https://i.imgur.com/9KmLPMX.png It's the workload, not the monitors you have plugged in. I posted a picture in the MacRumors thread with 4 externals (4K, 2x1440, 1x1080) plugged into my base model 16" and it idled in the 50 degree range with no audible fan noise. Once I started streaming video and opening apps, the fans then started, as expected.
- comboy 7y ago
  My 2019 15" mbpro makes quite a bit of noise on login screen with nothing connected to it. It's not a made up issue. USB 2.0 devices disconnect randomly which is a no-go for musicians. Touch bar freezes. The list goes on. I'd abandon it a long time ago but music software is macs first. Plus Logic is decent. It's so sad that they don't give a damn because market takes a while to adjust.
  - tpmx 7y ago
    That touchbar freezing issue is a pet peeve of mine. It's been happening for years now. I've personally witnessed over it perhaps 10 times over multiple hardware/OS revisions. Perhaps it's time for Apple to admit defeat and just build a watchdog service that runs every 30 seconds and if things aren't working: kill and restart whatever process and/or driver that runs the touch bar.
zedpm 7y ago
Hmm, I have the 6-core i7 version of the 16-inch MBP, and I'm driving two 2560 x 1440 displays (in addition to the built-in display). I have Chrome open with dozens of tabs, lots of other apps running, etc. and I haven't noticed any unexpected fan load.
bborud 7y ago
However you look at this, it is bad engineering from a company that can afford to to proper engineering but don't. Boo.
floatingatoll 7y ago
I laughed at OP misspelling “fan talk” in the throwaway account’s name. Then I flagged this, because it’s the third time this past week that someone has tried to rabble-rouse about fan noise with a link to poor data and/or extensive discussion threads with terrible quality data and no summary. A meta-analysis of this discussion would have been super interesting. A link to Apple’s equivalent of a Reddit post is not, especially from a throwaway account. I feel bad for the people with fan noise but this is not the way to handle it. Please do better. Collect data, measure power draw, and most of all document how you performed your tests so that you can start asking others to perform those exact tests, to your specifications. More science, less complaining, please.
- antalk 7y ago
  LOL, no. I’ve been a HN reader for years, and this MBP fan issue is driving me nuts for a while now, I wanted it to get some attention. Then I realized I don’t remember my HN password, that’s why the new account. My name is Antal. K is the initial of my last name. Glad we cleared that up. But the last part of your message is noted, thank you. Next time I will do so.
  - floatingatoll 7y ago
    Apologies re: name assumption. There’s always a lot of throwaway accounts with blank profiles and they’re impossible to tell from genuine content with any certainty. I’ll not comment about account names in the future, it was a bad call.
jamescontrol 7y ago
I went from a MacBook Pro 13” late 2013, to a 2019 16” and I have the same issue, running the exact same development setup, and I hear the fan much much more on the new machine. I know it’s faster etc so it can’t directly be compared, but still, I feel like I notice it now, every single day multiple times, where with the old 13 inch I never really noticed it at all. *Same setup and dev env on new MacBook as on the old
dangus 7y ago
Just to add my two cents, I drive a 4K monitor in a quiet room and don’t notice any significant difference in operation compared to my previous 2016 model. Perhaps this is a driver bug that hits some configurations or situations? The thermal design of the 16-inch seems adequate especially when compared to outgoing 15-inch models, so I think it’s something they can fix in software. Something to note: all recent discrete GPU MacBooks will switch to discrete graphics as soon as you plug in any external monitor. Higher power consumption and heat should be expected to a reasonable extent (everyone’s definition of reasonable is different).
D13Fd 7y ago
Mine seems fine. I have not noticed any more fan noise than any previous macbook. I use it for 8+ hours a day, open, usually with a Luna Display connected.
gmurphy 7y ago
FWIW, disabling Intel Turbo Boost (using Turbo Boost Switcher) has solved all my 16" MBP fan noise issues with no noticable performance impact for my daily tasks - you can even disable it in Bootcamp Windows (by setting CPU to 99% in power settings) and still get good framerates in Destiny 2.
jasonrhaas 7y ago
I have the Macbook Pro 16 and have been using it for a few months now. Overall, I think its pretty bad laptop for how expensive it is. Yes Apple fixed many things people were complaining about but it is a perfect example of how Apple has stopped innovating and stopped caring about the MacBook line. In fact, I dislike it so much I have started using my 10 year old MacBook Air instead of my brand new Macbook Pro. Things I dislike about the MBP 16: - Still has the touch bar - Screen size is awful. I like to work with windows size by size and the 16 inch screen size is awkward because most website won't re-size properly. - Its heavy as hell, slightly thinker than the old ones. - Its slow. Yes, all the RAM and CPU and the thing is laggy. I don't know why but it just has a bad "feel" to it. - Touchpad is too big. Its gigantic and I often end up touching it by accident. - Its crazy expensive In the end, I will end up selling it and using my 10 year old Macbook Air until it dies. After that I'm not sure.. maybe I will try the newer Macbook Air and see if its tolerable. At least it doesnt have a touchbar.
- MperorM 7y ago
  My experience has been quite different from yours, so I figured I'd share mine as well. - Yep touchbar just sucks, I've spent too much time messing around with with the default version, bettertouchtool, and pock, and I cannot find anything its good at. Worse yet, the volume slider often will freeze the touch bar completely. - The screen size and format is wonderful. I hate how Dell and Thinkpad laptops I've used in the past, have these widescreen formats, where very few lines of code can be visible at a time due to the limited vertical space. - I didn't realize this until you pointed it out, but it's definitely very heavy compared to my 15-inch 2018 model and thinkpad x230. This haven't bothered me at all, however. - It feels significantly faster than my 2018 model, and the CPU temperature stays much lower under the same workloads. - I know a lot of people have trouble with this, so if you've previously had this problem the 16 inch doesn't change that. Both my hands rest on the touch pad while typing, and I have not had this problem once. Your mileage may vary. - I got mine discounted down to roughly 2k. Pretty ridiculous yeah! - The battery life is insane. On a simple workload it will last me an entire day. On my full workload (Flutter development with android and ios simulators open) it lasts about half a day. In the end I'm very happy with my purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still using this laptop 8 years from now.
jasoneckert 7y ago
I've got the 16" MBP and definitely echo many of the same frustrations that others have noted here. Owning Apple products nowadays is a bit of a masochistic endeavor in many ways - a year ago my local Linux group had me write a funny book on "Escaping the Cult of Mac" that talked about this (https://github.com/jasoneckert/CultOfMac https://github.com/jasoneckert/CultOfMac).
hieudang9 7y ago
an other report from someday ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018
x3sphere 7y ago
I’m only getting 4-5W usage on the 5500M GPU at 3440x1440@100Hz, fwiw. Which is a fairly high refresh rate for that res. However, I only get the low power usage when in clamshell mode. Driving the built in display plus my monitor makes it shoot up to 20W usage.
ernie24 7y ago
There's a video by Max Tech which digs deeper into the topic (along with possible fixes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkmdHVfk4XE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkmdHVfk4XE TL;DR: 1) It seems this is Intel's fault not Apple's 2) For fix - use TGPro (or something similar) to create your own fan speed profile (I use TGPro since many years without any issues)
utxaa 7y ago
to me this is not any more complicated than not getting a MBP
insited 7y ago
This isn't even the bad part. Apple have a massive batch of faulty macbook pro 2019 16" machines and aren't admitting it. I'm on my 3rd $7000 replacement 2 months after purchase, this third still faulty so now swapping for an early 2020 model when it comes out. I'm lucky if it lasts longer than an hour without restarting. Terrible during renders. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250905859 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250905859 Funny thing is, when I do eventually get a machine that isn't faulty, I still have to deal with Catalina, since the new macbooks can't be downgraded and Catalina has a lot of sleep bugs that restart also: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250826263 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250826263 Every single 2019 16" macbook owner has also experienced the speaker popping issue, which after 2 system updates has simply lowered in volume instead of being loud and noticeable. PopGate. GPUgate. KernelGate. T2Gate. It is actually far beyond a joke, this was the true cost of apple become the world's first 'trillion dollar company'. They cut so many corners all they can produce are lemons now.

382 points by antalk 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

I really hope they haven't finally replaced the 'revolutionary' keyboard only to throw in a 'revolutionary' new fan system...

wodenokoto 7y ago
Would it be a pun to call a fan revolutionary?
- jonplackett 7y ago
  Haha. I guess all fans are revolutionary then. But this one is is comes with extra revolution for every USB-C port you use.
  - Cthulhu_ 7y ago
    Makes me wonder if there's technology for fanless fans, moving air without spinning fans.
    - rgoulter 7y ago
      Dyson's visually look like this. https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters/dyson-cool-overview.html https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters/dyson-cool-overview.h...
      - sooheon 7y ago
        These have fans in the base.
      - FabHK 7y ago
        That's not something I expected to read in the description of a fan: "Purifier and fan. Not wifi compatible."
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- blakesterz 7y ago
  More and more on the Mac hardware it feels like "revolutionary" now means it "just works" again. The one comment in that thread: "Bottom line, the combination of using the GPU and CPU is pushing the MBP into heat conditions causing the FAN issues and in our case, possibly damage to the GPU."
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    I think you missed the joke.
- xxs 7y ago
  good one!
trollied 7y ago
I was taking the whole Apple MBP keyboard thing with a pinch of salt, but the keyboard on mine has been degrading significantly over the last few weeks & I'm going to have to take it in for repair. Grr.
- blackearl 7y ago
  Best to keep that pinch of salt away from the keyboard unless you want it to become unusable.
antalk 7y ago
With revolutionary noise-cancelling earphones* *sold separately

dharma1 7y ago

The thermal design of Macbook pros just isn't adequate for >4 core high clock speed CPUs, especially with a discrete GPU thrown in the mix too. I had one of those i9 2018 MBPros and it was always super hot. Much happier now with a 13" 4 core MBpro, it runs quite cool and without any fan noise most of the time. Built a separate AMD 3900x PC with an Nvidia GPU for heavy lifting, and can use that remotely with the MBpro if needed.

antalk 7y ago
For what it's worth, this only occurs when connected to an external monitor -- which causes the discrete GPU to overheat, even with no apps running. Using the built-in display (with the discrete GPU on) is fine.
- tobyhinloopen 7y ago
  I’m using 2 external displays (one 4K) and it’s not overheating and the fans are completely silent. My 16” i9 is MUCH quieter than my 15” 2015 Macbook pro, and it’s not like i’m browsing Facebook: i’m constantly compiling and running tests on every file save. My macbook feels warm but not hot, even when I touch it at the fan exhausts. I do notice my battery only lasting about 2,5 hours though. Playing games it runs great and while you can hear the fans, it’s much better compared to my 15” 2015. Personally i’m really impressed with the cooling and performance of the 16”
  - smashedtoatoms 7y ago
    This has been my experience as well. Fans kick on on long compiles, and that's about it.
pentae 7y ago
I wish someone would publish a guide for MacBooks based on palm rest idle temperature, having a hot sweaty palmrest (especially in warmer climates) bugs me more than having a bit of fan noise and if it was clear and transparent maybe Apple would design better thermal solutions.

sumo89 7y ago

Oh boy we've never seen this issue with macbooks before...

eralps 7y ago

Just about a week ago, there was another thread about Macbook 16-inch Fan [1] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 There are tools that can measure some sensor temp and control the fan speed according to that on Mac. I was using it on my older MacBook Pro and the fan usage was relatively better than when it was set to auto.

ThouYS 7y ago

oh oh

dragonsh 7y ago

I was planning to buy MacBook 16-inch as I am still on 2014 edition which in my view were one of the best MacBooks. I simply hate that unnecessary Touch Bar, was hoping Apple will remove it but didn’t. Thought then of getting 16-inch as they have an esc key. Waiting for this kind of review, I will put on hold purchasing it until get a clarity on fan noise. My current old MacBook fan do make some noise but only under load of games. Hope Apple can go back to basics and redo the MacBook Pro to make it similar to 2014 with new hardware.

jhabdas 7y ago
mid-2014 editions had only one flaw: macOS. Easily remedied.† † https://habd.as/post/invisible-arch-linux/ https://habd.as/post/invisible-arch-linux/
- fortran77 7y ago
  BTW
joakleaf 7y ago
I moved from 2014 15" (i7) to 16" (i9). It is an upgrade, but not by much... The touch bar gets in the way, but I use external keyboardS 90% of the time, so it isn't that big of problem. I would have gladly payed extra for F-keys. The larger track-pad also gets in my way often. Fan noise is significant compared to the old model. USB-C-only is quite annoying. I never missed a port on the 15", whereas now ... well... I bought it to get a performance boost (compiling/ML-training/etc.). The performance upgrade isn't really that significant. I recommend waiting a little while longer...
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  My 2014 13” i5 broke last year after a drop so I bought a 2019 6 core 15”. I was pretty surprised that the performance of the new device isn’t really that much better. And the hardware feels worse. I think they should go back to the 2015 form factor, maybe replace some USB-A with C but otherwise leave it.
- 7y ago

petercooper 7y ago

I've found if I push the MacBook 16 at a certain point on the bottom of the chassis, it makes weird squeaking noises like there's a bird trapped in the machine. Other than that, a perfect machine so far!

baybal2 7y ago

What can I say as a person somewhat close to electronics engineering: Look at that single skinny heat pipe, it will get saturated very fast. Second to that, look at those tiny radiators, they are clearly not capable to discharge the full heat flux. I simply don't see any signs of proper thermal engineering there. Apple says "we are listening now, and here is a new cooling design," then it comes out to be even less adequate that the old one. I can't think of anybody else capable of trolling up their customers like that. If anybody wants to dish out something on an order of $1.5m to do a contract manufacturing run for a properly designed full sized laptop, give me a note. I do have some tricks in mind how to make 40W+ CPUs work in a relatively compact case.

walrus01 7y ago
If I had to guess they know what they're doing engineering wise, but they're taking a calculated (and poorly thought out, in my opinion) risk that a small percent of people will regularly peg the cpu at 100% usage, and they're further relying upon clock rate throttling and the cpu die thermal sensor to keep things from melting down. Or the management/product design group has overridden the input of the people who actually know how to design thermal solutions, because the laptop CANNOT be 2mm thicker. Whenever I see a laptop with a >15W TDP CPU in a super slim package with a tiny heatsink/fan unit, no matter if it's from Apple or another vendor, I'm very suspicious. At least the 12 inch Macbook from a few years ago which was truly fanless uses an appropriately low powered CPU. disclaimer: used to do systems engineering for a server manufacturer a long time ago, after you've gone through a dozen iterations of ways to mount skived copper heatsinks on dual socket motherboards in 1U cases, with various fan solutions, you realize that everything that is not acoustically terrible is some sort of compromise. People are trying to put CPU+GPU+RAM packages that are anywhere from 25W to 45W TDP in laptops that are physically too small for them.
- retSava 7y ago
  > relying upon clock rate throttling and the cpu die thermal sensor to keep things from melting down Seems like that wasn't working fully, since they report having GPU issues after stress testing the computer (external GPU worked fine). And that is worrying. Is the thermal stress shutdown from OS, or onboard the GPU/CPU?

nujabe 7y ago

What's disturbing is that Apple seem to be deleting posts: After attempting to be part of the solution; spending a ton of time testing, providing information in the community, communicating with Apple Engineers and Apple Business Team, our most recent post was deleted as "Speculative". We have spent over $300,000 on Apple hardware over the years both business and consumer and now our voice has been muted. How can we move forward using Apple? Instead of deleting our posts, how about send it to management?

bangonkeyboard 7y ago
I was going to ask where that quote was from before realizing that there is a 44-page thread beyond the two highlighted responses.
- armitron 7y ago
  Yes, and most of that thread is posts full of noise and faulty suggestions that add nothing to the discussion but serve to dilute the original post and the few posts with relevant information. Which is why I seldom bother with discussions.apple.com. It's a cesspit.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
jmull 7y ago
Considering the existence of the long support thread, Apple doesn't seem to be trying to suppress this issue. And that poster has many posts, so isn't being targeted either. Could it be the posts were deleted legitimately? Some people in that thread are pretty angry and may have let it get the better of them.
- marriedWpt 7y ago
  Given Apple's less than ethical history, I'm not sure it's reasonable to give them benefit of doubt. They might have an excuse that fans can believe, but the real reason is to suppress bad press.

sub7 7y ago

I just installed and set up Ubuntu after a long time. IMO both Windows and Linux have totally caught up to OSX and while their hardware is still marginally better, that gap is on a downward trend as well. With mobile, I think Android is close on software and far superior on hardware. I wonder what happens to Apple stock if they don't get a new product line that takes off - cars, TVs etc. Will ApplePay eating PayPal and Stripe offset this downward trend enough?

lqs469 7y ago

Cook is a complete businessman, best at cutting costs, increasing profits and attracting customers to buy more. Don't forget that memory began to weld on the motherboard because this can only be replaced and not upgraded. He was a businessman, not an engineer or a designer, and that was the beginning of apple's decline.

ed_blackburn 7y ago
He's Gates Ballmer.
alwayseasy 7y ago
What metric are you using to point to Apple's decline since Tim Cook came into the company? Product lines, revenue, customers, market cap, employees, daily client interactions, brand value, customer satisfaction?
- securityfreak 7y ago
  I believe he is using the far more superior metric, called “subjective perception”.
- dman 7y ago
  Choice as a customer - choice of upgrading the RAM, choice of getting to keep the data in case the motherboard fails, choice of picking a non genius bar repair shop, choice of looking at product schematics, choice of being able to buy legitimate spare parts for Apple products
- ardy42 7y ago
  > What metric are you using to point to Apple's decline since Tim Cook came into the company? Product lines, revenue, customers, market cap, employees, daily client interactions, brand value, customer satisfaction? Not everything can be measured, or measured practicably. Qualitative judgments are valuable. Looking at things too much through the lens of metrics can make you blind to many things.
  - 7y ago

luisrudge 7y ago

I have the same issue with a 2016 15" model. When I plug an external monitor, the place you put your wrists on gets super hot. I had to buy an external keyboard/trackpad long before my keyboard started to fail.

gnudad 7y ago

This appears to be a software bug in macOS or AMD's drivers. Plugging in an external monitor at certain resolutions (1440p@60Hz in my case) will cause the AMD GPU to draw 18-20W constantly, no matter what it's doing. This causes the total system draw to increase from ~10W to ~30W. All that heat has to go somewhere. If I change the resolution of my external monitor to 1080p the AMD GPU drops to ~4W and the fans are quiet again. A lot more information available in this long MacRumors thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-22 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...

splatcollision 7y ago
Can you share how you're measuring GPU power draw? I have just migrated to a 16" MBP with the AMD chip, and also use an external display some of the time. Have noticed the fan noise and heat but it hasn't been a problem yet.
- masklinn 7y ago
  I’d guess they measure total draw and compare against their baseline eg when they say the GPU draws 20W it’s 20W more than whatever the draw is when only using the internal display.
- gnudad 7y ago
  I use iStat Menus and look at the "Radeon High Side" sensor for GPU power draw under the Sensors menu icon.
  - splatcollision 7y ago
    Cool, thanks for that
nileshk 7y ago
I have medium-to-high fan noise/RPM consistently when connected to an Apple TB display (2560x1440@60Hz), but it's much quieter when connected to a 2560x1600@60Hz monitor. So if it is very specific resolutions, but not necessarily higher resolutions in general, that matches my experience.

rorykoehler 7y ago

>I have noticed that Chrome is a problem I use Firefox and my machine is silent. Typing on it now. 20+ tabs open and about 20 others apps open. I can't hear my machine without putting my ear against it.

nvch 7y ago

I have an issue with an external monitor, confirmed with multiple users on MacRumors forums [1], that looks like a software bug. When using opened Macbook with an external screen power usage by discrete GPU is not less 19W almost no matter what (resolution, screen size, etc.). In my case, with new LG 5K, GPU power usage in clamshell mode is near 5W and with the lid open – 19.5W (and the laptop is too noisy to be usable as an additional screen). [1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-22 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...

tsp 7y ago

I waited multiple years to upgrade from a MacBook Pro 2014, but was disappointed year after year, because I read about heating issues, the bad butterfly keyboard or the useless touch-bar. In 2019 I felt like things are not going to get any better, so I bought a MacBook Pro 2019. Was quite unhappy that I didn’t wait a bit longer after I saw the 16inch version coming out a few months later, because it had an escape key (which I really miss on mine), but now I am kind of happy that I have the 2019 15 inch version where the heating problem does not appear. The touch-bar really is completely useless, I find myself tapping the wrong "keys" all the time. Changing volume was so easy before, now it became really hard. But most of all I miss the escape key. If it wasn’t for macOS I had long picked a Windows laptop.

zarmin 7y ago
I feel your pain. This may help: https://www.haptictouchbar.com/ https://www.haptictouchbar.com/

arexxbifs 7y ago

Interesting. I have an Acer Swift 1 with passive cooling and just the integrated Intel graphics, and it seems to run a couple of degrees hotter when I've got an external monitor connected. Not so much that it worries or bothers me, I just think it's kind of strange.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Naomarik 7y ago

Been using Mac primarily since 2011 and sad to see everything keep declining with Apple's software and hardware quality. When programming an app and its backend with react native/clojure my 2015 Mac Pro gets way too hot and slow. Just built a Ryzen 3600 desktop with 32 gigs of RAM for about 1/4th the price as the cheapest 16 inch Macbook. Windows with WSL2 has been extremely good and I'm satisfied with my development environment. Key things were disabling automatic updates via group policy, setup autohotkey to keep all my MacOS keybindings, use X410 to display emacs and using the new windows terminal. Development is super fast, compilation is fast, git is fast, everything just works. Attempted to switch with WSL1 awhile a year ago or so and while it was okay, I wasn't very happy with it. My mac just sits there now mainly being a coaster until I need to test iOS builds.

mns 7y ago
I think you are underestimating the cost of your setup. There is no way in my opinion that you can build a decent PC with 1/4 price of a MacBook Pro. European prices might be higher, 2699 official price for base 16" (you can actually get it for 2399 from official resellers). But still 675 Eu for a proper setup is impossible. Just the CPU and RAM will cost you a bit over 300. I know you are just making a point, but it is a false statement that people constantly make when discussing prices of Apple hardware and this thing is getting quite annoying. Yes, they are more expensive, but when you look at the exact components, specs, you will find that Dell or Lenovo could be only around 10 to 20% cheaper in best case scenario.
- aquaticsunset 7y ago
  I mean, it's not that outlandish. It's such an apples to oranges comparison but performance for dollar is still in the "build your own desktop" side of the arena, as it's always been. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rfLcGc
  - sounds 7y ago
    My guess is Naomarik didn't buy a case, power supply, or new SSD.

Shivetya 7y ago

related only by brand... I upgraded from a 2013 iMac to a 2019 model recently for two reasons, the primary being my 2013 used an Nvidia 780m chipset and Nvidia no longer made compatible drivers and Apple wasn't doing any real updates either. Second I wanted he higher resolution screen. However, the fan which I rarely had come on in the 2013 is hyper active at times in the 2019 even with similar content. Oddly it is not consistent. Now I did go from i5 to i9 which do run hotter but they are very spiky as in the seem to flare a core or two enough to excite the fan logic. The GPU while getting warm (Vega 48) will less likely cause the fans to spin up past 2k than a random cpu spike. So either the fan logic is wonky or the processor logic is. While I understand that core balancing is complex it just seems to randomly jump single channels far more often than load across the whole

peterclary 7y ago

I have a MBP 16 with a Philips 48.8” 5120x1440 monitor, running with the lid closed. I have the extra 8GB on the GPU. The only time I’ve noticed fan noise was when I was running Minecraft with Optifine and a very aggressive shader pack. At first I thought the hissing sound was from rain in the game. Apart from that I haven’t really heard anything.

DaveSapien 7y ago

I'm going to miss Turbo Boost Switcher Pro, when apple kills it...

sgt101 7y ago

I got one, heard the fan, felt the heat. Switched on "Automatic Graphics Switching" in the power saver options and as I type it's on my lap as quiet as a mouse and as cool as a cucumber.

333c 7y ago
For me (and at least one other commenter in this thread), the issue occurs when plugged into an external monitor. The linked thread seems to indicate the same. Any thoughts on that? I'll check the relevant setting.
- dnissley 7y ago
  I think graphics switching only works when running on battery power. Wonder if there's a way of make it still work when plugged in...
  - sgt101 7y ago
    Ahh - probably true. It was annoying me playing world of warcraft and I turned down the settings to shut it up - I forgot that. Not an option if you are using it for your "work" workflow. There must be a kill switch somewhere; I'll have a look.
    - sgt101 7y ago
      right - I've had a look and I found https://github.com/codykrieger/gfxCardStatus https://github.com/codykrieger/gfxCardStatus. I cloned it and then compiled it with xcode. I found one problem which is a badly encoded file, which I fixed using the file inspector to set the encoding and then saved it. After that it built and runs. On my 16' 2020 MBP it allows me to turn off my 5300M. When I open WOW it refuses to allow the card to be turned off, its web site says that's what it will do with an external monitor too.

dep_b 7y ago

My new i9 15" is a lot cooler and more silent than the i7 2015 it's been replacing. I guess doing a completely clean install with nothing else than using iCloud to sync data from the old machine fixed a lot of software related performance issues that piled up on the old one. I expect the 2015 to be a lot better again after a clean install. I think most of the problems on the 2019 are software related. Not seeing any of the heat / performance problems mentioned by other people, the only really weird thing I've seen is that the color palette was way too dark getting out of sleep until I minimized and maximized brightness. That helped until the next sleep where it was too bright this time and the brightness trick didn't work anymore. Finally fixed it by switching between another color profile and back. Otherwise TouchID was pretty good, don't really notice the touchpad in any way good or bad and the touch bar goes largely ignored just like the row of keys it replaced. Keyboard action is nice, it's slightly more clicky than the 2015 but still has about the same travel. I really doubt anybody still on a 2015 or older will regret getting the 16". Probably the software problems get ironed out over the course of the next months.

p1necone 7y ago

This isn't surprising at all to me. All Apple has to do is put "i7" on the box and their customers will eat it up and then just browse Facebook and YouTube. Their whole shtick for years has been selling "pro" devices to regular consumers who aspire to be pros.

seanalltogether 7y ago

I like to keep my macbook on an elevated stand when its connected to monitor/keyboard/mouse. Does anyone know of a passive cooling stand (no fans) that works with macbooks? Maybe just something with a giant finned heatsink that presses right up against the middle of the case or something?

SamBam 7y ago
I use a Rain Design mStand. It's basically just a raised chunk of aluminum. It probably passively cools to some extent (it claims it does), but I have no metrics to say how much. (Of course, you could possibly also lay a freezer pack on the bottom of the stand, and maybe it would wick heat away even faster, and still passively...)
- seanalltogether 7y ago
  So I'm just checking out a video review of that stand. It looks like there's rubber pads that maybe raise the laptop up a bit off the plate. Can you tell me if your laptop is actually laying flush against the aluminum plate, or is there an air gap?

crusso 7y ago

On a related note, I have a 2018 MBP touchbar and it's currently out at Apple so they can replace the bulging battery. My guess is that it runs too hot sitting on my wooden desktop. Anyone have any great recommendations for quiet cooling systems?

treyfitty 7y ago

To be fair, I run 2 4K monitors at 60hz and I don’t hear my fans doing normal work (Excel, Firefox, PyCharm, Jupiter Labs). I use a DisplayLink hub (idk if that matters, but I’ve heard DisplayLink is driven by CPU) However, when I watch a 1080p movie, no matter what player, on just the laptop display, the mouse cursor feels sluggish and my fans are on 50-75% at all times.

WanderPanda 7y ago
gotta love dem new codecs
kevingadd 7y ago
DisplayLink for 4k60 involves compression, yes. So it's probably driving the monitor through a different flow and relying more on the CPU instead of relying on the GPU (the latter will naturally increase GPU heat dissipation)
TheTon 7y ago
It sounds like something is forcing the window manager to composite your cursor rather than leaving it as a hardware overlay. That’s the usual cause of sluggish feeling cursor. Now, as to what’s doing that, it could be AirPlay mirroring or perhaps some screen capture/sharing software, or maybe it is related to your displays.
_bxg1 7y ago
I have this happen too, on my 2014 at work. In Chrome, like clockwork, any time I watch a video that isn't on YouTube my fans spin up to the point where it's distracting. Not sure if I've had it affect my mouse cursor, though. I do have a 1080p monitor plugged in but I never have fan issues outside of watching videos.

gwbas1c 7y ago

One thing I miss about Steve Jobs is that he hated fan noise. The fact that Macs only made noise under extreme load was something that I really appreciated. I'm at a loss for what I'm going to do for my next laptop. Windows 10 still has performance issues that Macs don't have, but Windows laptops clearly have better hardware. Anyone make the switch back to Windows? (Every time I try Linux it feels like a dumpster fire, even though I want to like it.)

rubidium 7y ago
Switched to a Surface and it's great (except the touchscreen is useless). Use a remote desktop + homebuilt tower when I need more performance (computational simulations). Use onedrive to sync everything between them. It's not perfect, but it does just work.
jillesvangurp 7y ago
I've been considering both Linux and Windows (with the linux subsystem, obviously) but so far can't bring myself to do it. I'm leaning towards Linux. My main beef with both ecosystems is the high amount DYI and tweaking needed to get things functioning and that I actually need to make an indepth study of exactly which variants of which hardware to get in order to get a linux setup that works. With windows I have no love for Windows specifically but would appreciate access to a wider selection of games. For work, all I need is docker and access to linux/unix tooling. Homebrew and docker for mac cover my needs but I've been hearing good things about windows and the linux subsystem. Obviously that kind of stuff works great on Linux as it all runs natively there. IMHO the big problem with Linux is that people are still thinking about distributions like it is the early nineties. It does not make sense to me for small (or even bigger) linux distributions to even pretend to be able to maintain huge software repositories with distribution specific builds of all OSS known to mankind. What's needed here is people just agreeing on how to package up binaries such that they can be run on any linux distribution after their developers test, sign and release them. I saw this in action when one of my favorite OSS tools released a major version a few weeks ago and I was able to install the mac build while world + dog was complaining about a lack of pre-packaged binaries for their favorite Linux distros (pretty much all of them). I'm talking about Darktable, which is one reason I'm seriously considering a move to Linux because I absolutely love it and it runs best on Linux. I installed it within 2 hours after it was tagged on Github. That for me sums up the problem with Linux: the application ecosystem remains a mess of incompatibility and middlemen adding dubious value (mainly verifying it does not clash with their other customizations for other packages). IMHO this is a reason why the most widely used consumer versions of Linux are basically things like Android, ChromeOS, and a wide range of software for TVs and other embedded hardware; none of which involve a mainstream Linux distribution or package manager. The only package managers you need on a mac are for installing OSS software. Normal software is just a simple drag and drop to install and move to trash to uninstall. Apple nailed this already with OS 9 before Linux was a thing. MS with its need for custom installers never figured this out either. Docker is kind of doing this for servers these days and snaps look promising but still a bit flaky. I think it's telling that the hope for gaming on Linux is basically Steam doing the hard work of providing a way to install software on Linux that is compatible with the goals of software developers that want to release software directly to users instead of to some middlemen that need to repackage, modify, an tweak a custom package of your software.

hawkweed 7y ago

My biggest painpint with mbpro 15 2018 is double keystroke problem. Just driving me nuts. Apart from that, I would never change mbpro for any other machine.

fortran77 7y ago
I agggree! MaccbookPPro is the bbest! I ffeel sorrry for those Windozze peopplee.

danielstocks 7y ago

I'm on a 15" MBP and I'm really missing the physical escape key (especially as a long time vim user). I was considering the 16" MBP, but I think I'll just go ahead with my Hacking-tosh build instead! I spend 99% of my productive time at my desk. For anything on the move I'm more inclined to go "light", a 13" Air perhaps`. I was hoping iPad would cut it, but I'm afraid iPad OS is too limiting.

DerekRobot 7y ago

My ASUS GA502 makes all kinds of noises. It has a loud coil whine when the keyboard backlight is off/dim, and the audio chipset is constantly popping the speakers by turning on and off to save power. I bought it open box; the buyer probably went insane from the noise before they could even set up Windows.

nottorp 7y ago

So did they at least fix the keyboard?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
conchy 7y ago
yes, it's a lot better. first time a new MacBook Pro shipped with a new keyboard that is actually better to type on.

ashishb 7y ago

Again why isn't there a single good premium Linux laptop in the market yet?

_bxg1 7y ago
There is... a single one https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/dells-2019-xps-13-developer-edition-the-best-linux-laptop-til-the-2020-version/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/dells-2019-xps-13-de...

bluedino 7y ago

There isn't anything wrong here. One of the confusing issues is that people say, "I'm only using 15% of my CPU, the fans should not be coming on." What they don't realize, is that using 1 core running at turbo speeds is only going to show up as 15% of the CPU, but draw enough power and create enough heat to trigger the fans! Another thing that some of these posters are not aware of, is that running these temperature/fan speed monitoring applications can use quite a bit of power! They're drawing all these fancy graphs, the applications are usually poorly optimized. Even the Mac OS Activity Monitor is a hog in Catalina for some reason and can take 15-20% of a CPU all by itself. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the other apps people have running. You can see in their screenshots or menu bar they have Dropbox, 3rd party wireless keyboard/mouse programs, they might have 10 things running in just their menubars! They need to look in the Activity Monitor's Power section to see what the real culprit is. Plugging an external monitor into your MacBook will enable the dGPU and that will create more power draw, this is nothing new: https://i.imgur.com/9KmLPMX.png https://i.imgur.com/9KmLPMX.png It's the workload, not the monitors you have plugged in. I posted a picture in the MacRumors thread with 4 externals (4K, 2x1440, 1x1080) plugged into my base model 16" and it idled in the 50 degree range with no audible fan noise. Once I started streaming video and opening apps, the fans then started, as expected.

comboy 7y ago
My 2019 15" mbpro makes quite a bit of noise on login screen with nothing connected to it. It's not a made up issue. USB 2.0 devices disconnect randomly which is a no-go for musicians. Touch bar freezes. The list goes on. I'd abandon it a long time ago but music software is macs first. Plus Logic is decent. It's so sad that they don't give a damn because market takes a while to adjust.
- tpmx 7y ago
  That touchbar freezing issue is a pet peeve of mine. It's been happening for years now. I've personally witnessed over it perhaps 10 times over multiple hardware/OS revisions. Perhaps it's time for Apple to admit defeat and just build a watchdog service that runs every 30 seconds and if things aren't working: kill and restart whatever process and/or driver that runs the touch bar.

zedpm 7y ago

Hmm, I have the 6-core i7 version of the 16-inch MBP, and I'm driving two 2560 x 1440 displays (in addition to the built-in display). I have Chrome open with dozens of tabs, lots of other apps running, etc. and I haven't noticed any unexpected fan load.

bborud 7y ago

However you look at this, it is bad engineering from a company that can afford to to proper engineering but don't. Boo.

floatingatoll 7y ago

I laughed at OP misspelling “fan talk” in the throwaway account’s name. Then I flagged this, because it’s the third time this past week that someone has tried to rabble-rouse about fan noise with a link to poor data and/or extensive discussion threads with terrible quality data and no summary. A meta-analysis of this discussion would have been super interesting. A link to Apple’s equivalent of a Reddit post is not, especially from a throwaway account. I feel bad for the people with fan noise but this is not the way to handle it. Please do better. Collect data, measure power draw, and most of all document how you performed your tests so that you can start asking others to perform those exact tests, to your specifications. More science, less complaining, please.

antalk 7y ago
LOL, no. I’ve been a HN reader for years, and this MBP fan issue is driving me nuts for a while now, I wanted it to get some attention. Then I realized I don’t remember my HN password, that’s why the new account. My name is Antal. K is the initial of my last name. Glad we cleared that up. But the last part of your message is noted, thank you. Next time I will do so.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  Apologies re: name assumption. There’s always a lot of throwaway accounts with blank profiles and they’re impossible to tell from genuine content with any certainty. I’ll not comment about account names in the future, it was a bad call.

jamescontrol 7y ago

I went from a MacBook Pro 13” late 2013, to a 2019 16” and I have the same issue, running the exact same development setup, and I hear the fan much much more on the new machine. I know it’s faster etc so it can’t directly be compared, but still, I feel like I notice it now, every single day multiple times, where with the old 13 inch I never really noticed it at all. *Same setup and dev env on new MacBook as on the old

dangus 7y ago

Just to add my two cents, I drive a 4K monitor in a quiet room and don’t notice any significant difference in operation compared to my previous 2016 model. Perhaps this is a driver bug that hits some configurations or situations? The thermal design of the 16-inch seems adequate especially when compared to outgoing 15-inch models, so I think it’s something they can fix in software. Something to note: all recent discrete GPU MacBooks will switch to discrete graphics as soon as you plug in any external monitor. Higher power consumption and heat should be expected to a reasonable extent (everyone’s definition of reasonable is different).

D13Fd 7y ago

Mine seems fine. I have not noticed any more fan noise than any previous macbook. I use it for 8+ hours a day, open, usually with a Luna Display connected.

gmurphy 7y ago

FWIW, disabling Intel Turbo Boost (using Turbo Boost Switcher) has solved all my 16" MBP fan noise issues with no noticable performance impact for my daily tasks - you can even disable it in Bootcamp Windows (by setting CPU to 99% in power settings) and still get good framerates in Destiny 2.

jasonrhaas 7y ago

I have the Macbook Pro 16 and have been using it for a few months now. Overall, I think its pretty bad laptop for how expensive it is. Yes Apple fixed many things people were complaining about but it is a perfect example of how Apple has stopped innovating and stopped caring about the MacBook line. In fact, I dislike it so much I have started using my 10 year old MacBook Air instead of my brand new Macbook Pro. Things I dislike about the MBP 16: - Still has the touch bar - Screen size is awful. I like to work with windows size by size and the 16 inch screen size is awkward because most website won't re-size properly. - Its heavy as hell, slightly thinker than the old ones. - Its slow. Yes, all the RAM and CPU and the thing is laggy. I don't know why but it just has a bad "feel" to it. - Touchpad is too big. Its gigantic and I often end up touching it by accident. - Its crazy expensive In the end, I will end up selling it and using my 10 year old Macbook Air until it dies. After that I'm not sure.. maybe I will try the newer Macbook Air and see if its tolerable. At least it doesnt have a touchbar.

MperorM 7y ago
My experience has been quite different from yours, so I figured I'd share mine as well. - Yep touchbar just sucks, I've spent too much time messing around with with the default version, bettertouchtool, and pock, and I cannot find anything its good at. Worse yet, the volume slider often will freeze the touch bar completely. - The screen size and format is wonderful. I hate how Dell and Thinkpad laptops I've used in the past, have these widescreen formats, where very few lines of code can be visible at a time due to the limited vertical space. - I didn't realize this until you pointed it out, but it's definitely very heavy compared to my 15-inch 2018 model and thinkpad x230. This haven't bothered me at all, however. - It feels significantly faster than my 2018 model, and the CPU temperature stays much lower under the same workloads. - I know a lot of people have trouble with this, so if you've previously had this problem the 16 inch doesn't change that. Both my hands rest on the touch pad while typing, and I have not had this problem once. Your mileage may vary. - I got mine discounted down to roughly 2k. Pretty ridiculous yeah! - The battery life is insane. On a simple workload it will last me an entire day. On my full workload (Flutter development with android and ios simulators open) it lasts about half a day. In the end I'm very happy with my purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still using this laptop 8 years from now.

jasoneckert 7y ago

I've got the 16" MBP and definitely echo many of the same frustrations that others have noted here. Owning Apple products nowadays is a bit of a masochistic endeavor in many ways - a year ago my local Linux group had me write a funny book on "Escaping the Cult of Mac" that talked about this (https://github.com/jasoneckert/CultOfMac https://github.com/jasoneckert/CultOfMac).

hieudang9 7y ago

an other report from someday ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22207018

x3sphere 7y ago

I’m only getting 4-5W usage on the 5500M GPU at 3440x1440@100Hz, fwiw. Which is a fairly high refresh rate for that res. However, I only get the low power usage when in clamshell mode. Driving the built in display plus my monitor makes it shoot up to 20W usage.

ernie24 7y ago

There's a video by Max Tech which digs deeper into the topic (along with possible fixes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkmdHVfk4XE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkmdHVfk4XE TL;DR: 1) It seems this is Intel's fault not Apple's 2) For fix - use TGPro (or something similar) to create your own fan speed profile (I use TGPro since many years without any issues)

utxaa 7y ago

to me this is not any more complicated than not getting a MBP

insited 7y ago

This isn't even the bad part. Apple have a massive batch of faulty macbook pro 2019 16" machines and aren't admitting it. I'm on my 3rd $7000 replacement 2 months after purchase, this third still faulty so now swapping for an early 2020 model when it comes out. I'm lucky if it lasts longer than an hour without restarting. Terrible during renders. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250905859 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250905859 Funny thing is, when I do eventually get a machine that isn't faulty, I still have to deal with Catalina, since the new macbooks can't be downgraded and Catalina has a lot of sleep bugs that restart also: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250826263 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250826263 Every single 2019 16" macbook owner has also experienced the speaker popping issue, which after 2 system updates has simply lowered in volume instead of being loud and noticeable. PopGate. GPUgate. KernelGate. T2Gate. It is actually far beyond a joke, this was the true cost of apple become the world's first 'trillion dollar company'. They cut so many corners all they can produce are lemons now.