8 ms·

Kod.app is open source

160 points by octover 16y ago

octover 16y ago
The announcement with details can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/kod-app/browse_thread/thread/8bc80d18932f5e99 http://groups.google.com/group/kod-app/browse_thread/thread/...
macmac 16y ago
I get "You cannot use this version of the application Kod with this version of Mac Os X." - ???
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Are you on 10.6? If not, you're out of luck.
  - babo 16y ago
    Fine for a free application, a wise decision.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Fine for any application; nobody can dictate which platforms anyone must support and which they can't. 10.6 is much nicer than 10.5 on a bunch of levels. It's slightly annoying now, but will pay off in the future.
      - meric 16y ago
        If you say so. :( That it will be worth the wait till I skip 10.6 and upgrade straight to Lion. Was looking forward to using something shiny.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        Why'd you skip 10.6? It was $30.
        getsat 16y ago
        And also a HUGE improvement in a lot of different areas! Speed, especially.
        meric 16y ago
        I'd just never gotten around to it... Nothing I used (except Kod and new Smultron) really required 10.6.
        Stormbringer 16y ago
        It is much buggier, frequent crashes of Safari, iTunes and Mail for instance
        sharednothing 16y ago
        Not sure why you are getting down-voted. I have 2 MBPs. One is s ~3 year old running 10.5 and his baby sister running 10.6. This is entirely subjective per my experience: - the 10.5 'feels' more responsive. - the beachball is a very frequent event in the 10.6, specially Safari, sometimes even when switching tabs which is quite annoying. - I haven't rebooted the old MBP in months. Sitting pretty on my desk. The new one has frozen few times and occasionally I feel the need to put it out of its misery myself.
        ubernostrum 16y ago
        There's no such thing as a trivial OS upgrade, and so long as 10.5 is supported and runs the stuff I need to run, I don't have a compelling reason to go to the trouble of upgrading.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        ... except some software that's 10.6 only? ;)
- protomyth 16y ago
  from the info.plist <key>LSMinimumSystemVersion</key> <string>10.6.0</string> <key>LSMinimumSystemVersionByArchitecture</key> <dict> <key>x86_64</key> <string>10.6</string> </dict>
Rauchg 16y ago
If TextMate 2.0 is not released soon (or doesn't meet expectations), MacroMates is in trouble.
- sjs 16y ago
  Could be, but a lot of people who wanted more than TM 1.5 provides have already gone to Emacs or vim.
- flyosity 16y ago
  And by "MacroMates" you mean the singular developer who works on it who has probably already made a small fortune from TextMate 1.x licenses and has said a few times that TextMate development is a "hobby". I don't think he's in any sort of trouble.
  - frou_dh 16y ago
    IIRC he did get stressed out by expectation and some blog nastiness, and at another time made a somewhat rash commitment to TM2 being a free upgrade. Perhaps Duke-Nukem status is finally accepted but I don't think things have always been so chilled.
- holman 16y ago
  Kod is pretty far away from being a "usable" editor (in its current state), so TextMate 2 isn't nearing imminent doom. Besides, there was a blog post about TM2 nearing completion, which means it should ship sometime around Summer 2008. loljk I'm pretty excited about Kod in general though; the design has a real great start, and the scripting foundations he's building seem really interesting. Open sourcing it should (hopefully) speed it along to reliability and completeness sooner rather than later, too. Will be a fun product to watch.
- bnycum 16y ago
  I really wish people would stop complaining about TextMate 2.0, just because it's been talked about doesn't mean the current version stopped working or lost features. I'm a daily TextMate user for nearly 6 years and it has never once not met my expectations. It's first app I install on a new machine/install. Kod is a great start so far, but still has a ways to catch up. I wish the developer the best and that it works out for him. Hope it doesn't turn out like Smultron (now Fraise).
brianm 16y ago
Sadly, it is a precious snowflake license (MIT + Custom term) with a very ambiguous custom term: "The Software and/or source code cannot be copied in whole and sold without meaningful modification for a profit." Great to see it semi-open source, and well within the rights of the author, though :-)
- Zev 16y ago
  The intent seems clear to me; "You can't build + sell the app on its own. But, if you want to use a part of the code in your own app, go for it."
  - itsnotvalid 16y ago
    Build and use is enough for most people. But of course things would be very ambiguous in terms of how much means "meaningful modification".
    - gaustin 16y ago
      Right. What if I make a bunch of publicly released changes* that are then pulled back into the Kod codebase? * Changes that fulfill this "meaningful modification" provision.
      - Zev 16y ago
        My thought[1] is that your changes are your own, do as you please with them. Thats how I would treat it if I intended to do anything with Kod's source code, at least. 1. Please note: I'm very far from being anything that resembles a lawyer.
- callahad 16y ago
  As per Kod 0.0.2's changelog, the special snowflake license was inspired by this blog post: http://blog.robrhyne.com/post/1043407467/selling-open-source http://blog.robrhyne.com/post/1043407467/selling-open-source
savoy11 16y ago
I'm not quite sure how/why you think this is news. Something going open source historically means 99% death. I really hope you get to be that 1% of the lucky ones... but...
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
  - dhbanes 16y ago
    Not by you.
    - savoy11 16y ago
      So I am pretty sure you have your successful open source story to share. Where you saved the queen, anything green, the oxygen, as we know it - and made millions along the way - while slaying bad guys around. PS. It is easy to spot a clown.
      - dhbanes 16y ago
        Not quite sure I follow.
      - arihant 16y ago
        You need a story which has millions of dollars, women and open source? - Android.
        fredoliveira 16y ago
        Indeed, and you can even go earlier than that: MySQL.
- FooBarWidget 16y ago
  Something not going open source historically also means 99% death. 99% of all software die, whether open source or closed source. Not sure what point you're trying to make. The (flawed) point that something will die because it's open source?
itsnotvalid 16y ago
I need to retract my previous comments on the other HN post that the communities would just choose over other open source alternatives for Node.js stuff. Well, now this is open-sourced too! Cheers and happy holidays~!
djacobs 16y ago
Looks nice. One note: It says it requires MacPorts. You should probably say it requires the source-highlight package, regardless of how you get it. (I'm going to install via Homebrew, some might compile it manually.)
- alnayyir 16y ago
  It's worth noting that you can just install the app binary. Compiling it is for people that want to hack the source themselves, it's not the main distribution method.
  - frou_dh 16y ago
    ==> http://kodapp.com/download/ http://kodapp.com/download/
  - djacobs 16y ago
    I meant the source-highlight dependency. Is that included with the binary?
equark 16y ago
Speaking of open-source programmer text editors, what's the best embeddable editor control for OSX? Sort of like a Scintilla for the OSX world.
zdw 16y ago
Anyone use this? Pros/cons vs Textmate/vim/emacs?
- Zev 16y ago
  Pro: Its a new editor and shows a lot of promise. Con: Its a new editor and needs a lot of work.
- bugsy 16y ago
  It's not comparable at all, though it could be after a few man years of work. Crashes on quit. In C mode, hitting return doesn't indent. No preferences. No toolbars or widget menus. It does attempt to color keywords but this doesn't really work, with "in" in "int" being blue and the "t" inexplicably being white, etc. It's a text editor with fewer features than TextEdit. No idea what the big deal is. It's description as version 0.02 seems accurate.
  - VMG 16y ago
    Sad. I saw the screenshot and imagined a modern vim of sorts.
alnayyir 16y ago
This 'feature', is what I was waiting for to get me away from TextMate. I am extremely pleased.
sharednothing 16y ago
I downloaded Kod.app to check it out. Great Nordic looks! But this is really not even ready for prime-time, is it? Given the amount of work involved, I'd like to throw in the suggestion here that if you are thinking of building your own (programmer development environment -- these things are not simply "editors") on top an OSS foundation, to review and consider IDEA: http://git.jetbrains.org/ http://git.jetbrains.org/ (Not in any way associated with JetBrains).

160 points by octover 16y ago

The announcement with details can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/kod-app/browse_thread/thread/8bc80d18932f5e99 http://groups.google.com/group/kod-app/browse_thread/thread/...

macmac 16y ago

I get "You cannot use this version of the application Kod with this version of Mac Os X." - ???

steveklabnik 16y ago
Are you on 10.6? If not, you're out of luck.
- babo 16y ago
  Fine for a free application, a wise decision.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Fine for any application; nobody can dictate which platforms anyone must support and which they can't. 10.6 is much nicer than 10.5 on a bunch of levels. It's slightly annoying now, but will pay off in the future.
    - meric 16y ago
      If you say so. :( That it will be worth the wait till I skip 10.6 and upgrade straight to Lion. Was looking forward to using something shiny.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Why'd you skip 10.6? It was $30.
        getsat 16y ago
        And also a HUGE improvement in a lot of different areas! Speed, especially.
        meric 16y ago
        I'd just never gotten around to it... Nothing I used (except Kod and new Smultron) really required 10.6.
        Stormbringer 16y ago
        It is much buggier, frequent crashes of Safari, iTunes and Mail for instance
        sharednothing 16y ago
        Not sure why you are getting down-voted. I have 2 MBPs. One is s ~3 year old running 10.5 and his baby sister running 10.6. This is entirely subjective per my experience: - the 10.5 'feels' more responsive. - the beachball is a very frequent event in the 10.6, specially Safari, sometimes even when switching tabs which is quite annoying. - I haven't rebooted the old MBP in months. Sitting pretty on my desk. The new one has frozen few times and occasionally I feel the need to put it out of its misery myself.
        ubernostrum 16y ago
        There's no such thing as a trivial OS upgrade, and so long as 10.5 is supported and runs the stuff I need to run, I don't have a compelling reason to go to the trouble of upgrading.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        ... except some software that's 10.6 only? ;)
protomyth 16y ago
from the info.plist <key>LSMinimumSystemVersion</key> <string>10.6.0</string> <key>LSMinimumSystemVersionByArchitecture</key> <dict> <key>x86_64</key> <string>10.6</string> </dict>

Rauchg 16y ago

If TextMate 2.0 is not released soon (or doesn't meet expectations), MacroMates is in trouble.

sjs 16y ago
Could be, but a lot of people who wanted more than TM 1.5 provides have already gone to Emacs or vim.
flyosity 16y ago
And by "MacroMates" you mean the singular developer who works on it who has probably already made a small fortune from TextMate 1.x licenses and has said a few times that TextMate development is a "hobby". I don't think he's in any sort of trouble.
- frou_dh 16y ago
  IIRC he did get stressed out by expectation and some blog nastiness, and at another time made a somewhat rash commitment to TM2 being a free upgrade. Perhaps Duke-Nukem status is finally accepted but I don't think things have always been so chilled.
holman 16y ago
Kod is pretty far away from being a "usable" editor (in its current state), so TextMate 2 isn't nearing imminent doom. Besides, there was a blog post about TM2 nearing completion, which means it should ship sometime around Summer 2008. loljk I'm pretty excited about Kod in general though; the design has a real great start, and the scripting foundations he's building seem really interesting. Open sourcing it should (hopefully) speed it along to reliability and completeness sooner rather than later, too. Will be a fun product to watch.
bnycum 16y ago
I really wish people would stop complaining about TextMate 2.0, just because it's been talked about doesn't mean the current version stopped working or lost features. I'm a daily TextMate user for nearly 6 years and it has never once not met my expectations. It's first app I install on a new machine/install. Kod is a great start so far, but still has a ways to catch up. I wish the developer the best and that it works out for him. Hope it doesn't turn out like Smultron (now Fraise).

brianm 16y ago

Sadly, it is a precious snowflake license (MIT + Custom term) with a very ambiguous custom term: "The Software and/or source code cannot be copied in whole and sold without meaningful modification for a profit." Great to see it semi-open source, and well within the rights of the author, though :-)

Zev 16y ago
The intent seems clear to me; "You can't build + sell the app on its own. But, if you want to use a part of the code in your own app, go for it."
- itsnotvalid 16y ago
  Build and use is enough for most people. But of course things would be very ambiguous in terms of how much means "meaningful modification".
  - gaustin 16y ago
    Right. What if I make a bunch of publicly released changes* that are then pulled back into the Kod codebase? * Changes that fulfill this "meaningful modification" provision.
    - Zev 16y ago
      My thought[1] is that your changes are your own, do as you please with them. Thats how I would treat it if I intended to do anything with Kod's source code, at least. 1. Please note: I'm very far from being anything that resembles a lawyer.
callahad 16y ago
As per Kod 0.0.2's changelog, the special snowflake license was inspired by this blog post: http://blog.robrhyne.com/post/1043407467/selling-open-source http://blog.robrhyne.com/post/1043407467/selling-open-source

savoy11 16y ago

I'm not quite sure how/why you think this is news. Something going open source historically means 99% death. I really hope you get to be that 1% of the lucky ones... but...

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- dhbanes 16y ago
  Not by you.
  - savoy11 16y ago
    So I am pretty sure you have your successful open source story to share. Where you saved the queen, anything green, the oxygen, as we know it - and made millions along the way - while slaying bad guys around. PS. It is easy to spot a clown.
    - dhbanes 16y ago
      Not quite sure I follow.
    - arihant 16y ago
      You need a story which has millions of dollars, women and open source? - Android.
      - fredoliveira 16y ago
        Indeed, and you can even go earlier than that: MySQL.
FooBarWidget 16y ago
Something not going open source historically also means 99% death. 99% of all software die, whether open source or closed source. Not sure what point you're trying to make. The (flawed) point that something will die because it's open source?

itsnotvalid 16y ago

I need to retract my previous comments on the other HN post that the communities would just choose over other open source alternatives for Node.js stuff. Well, now this is open-sourced too! Cheers and happy holidays~!

djacobs 16y ago

Looks nice. One note: It says it requires MacPorts. You should probably say it requires the source-highlight package, regardless of how you get it. (I'm going to install via Homebrew, some might compile it manually.)

alnayyir 16y ago
It's worth noting that you can just install the app binary. Compiling it is for people that want to hack the source themselves, it's not the main distribution method.
- frou_dh 16y ago
  ==> http://kodapp.com/download/ http://kodapp.com/download/
- djacobs 16y ago
  I meant the source-highlight dependency. Is that included with the binary?

equark 16y ago

Speaking of open-source programmer text editors, what's the best embeddable editor control for OSX? Sort of like a Scintilla for the OSX world.

zdw 16y ago

Anyone use this? Pros/cons vs Textmate/vim/emacs?

Zev 16y ago
Pro: Its a new editor and shows a lot of promise. Con: Its a new editor and needs a lot of work.
bugsy 16y ago
It's not comparable at all, though it could be after a few man years of work. Crashes on quit. In C mode, hitting return doesn't indent. No preferences. No toolbars or widget menus. It does attempt to color keywords but this doesn't really work, with "in" in "int" being blue and the "t" inexplicably being white, etc. It's a text editor with fewer features than TextEdit. No idea what the big deal is. It's description as version 0.02 seems accurate.
- VMG 16y ago
  Sad. I saw the screenshot and imagined a modern vim of sorts.

alnayyir 16y ago

This 'feature', is what I was waiting for to get me away from TextMate. I am extremely pleased.

sharednothing 16y ago

I downloaded Kod.app to check it out. Great Nordic looks! But this is really not even ready for prime-time, is it? Given the amount of work involved, I'd like to throw in the suggestion here that if you are thinking of building your own (programmer development environment -- these things are not simply "editors") on top an OSS foundation, to review and consider IDEA: http://git.jetbrains.org/ http://git.jetbrains.org/ (Not in any way associated with JetBrains).