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This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel the trade conflict between the US and China is overdue. The world’s two biggest economies operating on such a diffe
by denverkarma 7y ago
This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel the trade conflict between the US and China is overdue. The world’s two biggest economies operating on such a different standards of IP was bound to lead to conflict eventually.
- xwdv 7y agoIt is very overdue and close to reaching a flashpoint. The markets have been getting slammed recently over trade war rumbles. Not sure how it will all end, but China really needs to fall in line with the RoW and adopt sane standards for intellectual property. This cannot go on.
- seppin 7y agoIt will never happen. What's the worst case scenario, China cuts off its markets completely from western digital products? They already have.
- androidrebel 7y agoThe worst for China is that we block them from our markets. Which Trump is trying to do
- krak12 7y agoLet’s do it
- User23 7y agoChina’s economy is very dependent on foreign markets, both for exports of its manufactured goods and for acquiring the commodities needed for that. Their currency peg further limits their options. If they go too low commodities become unaffordable and if they go too high exports lose competitiveness.
- phkahler 7y agoAnd some manufacturing jobs come back to the U.S.
- mdorazio 7y agoNot likely. When manufacturing comes back to the US it's because the company calculated the cost of a US-based automated factory was less than the shipping + tariffs on the foreign-produced goods. If manual labor jobs leave China, they will go to other low-cost countries like Malaysia, Vietnam, etc. or be lost forever. Even producing things in Mexico can cut your labor cost in half in comparison to producing here.
- ianai 7y agoExactly. They wouldn’t go from China to the US. They’d go from China to somewhere closer to the economic factors of China - India, Brazil, etc
- User23 7y agoThat's the point. It's strategically and economically superior for the US to depend on {South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, India, the Philippines, Brazil,...} for 600 billion in imports than to depend entirely on {China} for them. Edit: Lol I shouldn't have posted this during Chinese lunch hour :X
- WillPostForFood 7y agoAn automated factory in the US is more US jobs than a factory in China. It is a net positive even though you don't get all the jobs back.
- User23 7y agoMore importantly it's a strategic positive. Productive capacity is defense capacity. Buying gewgaws, knickknacks, and flipflops from a strategic competitor is one thing, buying defense technology is another, and it's not the path to security.
- MarkMc 7y agoEven worse for China is if they are blocked from both US and EU markets. Like the US, Europe has found its IP and technology appropriated by China, so with the right strategy Trump might convince EU leaders to also take a hard line against China. Unfortunately Trump's world view doesn't allow for such a strategy.
- makomk 7y agoThe big obstacle to this strategy isn't Trump's world view, it's the structure of the EU itself. They just haven't been able to agree on a hard line against any kind of Chinese trade abuses. This has been a problem since well before Trump was elected.
- PorterDuff 7y agoI suppose that the worst case scenario is that the bond market gets involved. Ugly. OTOH, maybe it's better to have a small conflict early rather than a large one later.
- johntiger1 7y agoIt's not early friend :( Having said that, with the amount of Chinese wealth overseas I think there is a vested interest in keeping the status quo
- Mirioron 7y agoThe worst case scenario is that tariffs and other measures against China slow down their economy enough that their real-estate bubble pops. The results of that could easily be political.
- neuronic 7y agoWhy are you confident that this isn't already "later"?
- friedman23 7y agoThe worst case scenario for China is a complete decoupling of the US economy from China. If US manufacturing is going to remain offshore it should be diversified across many countries with similar values rather than centralized in one country with values completely contrary to those of the US. All Chinese information technology companies should be banned from operating within the United States. Tick toc, weibo, baidu, etc. Also ban trading with their hardware companies. Either a deal will be made or the existing relationship between the United States and China is finished.
- seppin 7y ago> The worst case scenario for China is a complete decoupling of the US economy from China. This is impossible, even if someone wanted to do this (which is like saying you want to commit suicide) they couldn't.
- friedman23 7y agoA complete 100% decoupling may be impossible but the US is not so reliant on China that a 90% decoupling could be considered suicide. It would take effort and would result in many lost dollars but the US could move its manufacturing out of China.
- lone_haxx0r 7y agoDo you really think the rest of the world has "sane standards for intellectual property"?
- briandear 7y agoCompared to China? Definitely.
- markdown 7y ago> "sane standards for intellectual property" You mean US standards for intellectual property... which are really Disney standards for intellectual property. I'm not a US citizen and think that "US standards for intellectual property" are absolutely disgusting. A US company with no connection whatsoever to my country or its indigenous people has trademarked our word for hello/greetings/life/health. Life plus 70yrs for copyright? WTF? How about this for "sane standards of intellectual property": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19997848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19997848
- hhjjkkll 7y ago> A US company with no connection whatsoever to my country or its indigenous people has trademarked our word for hello/greetings/life/health. What's the word? Curious.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- brandonjm 7y agoNot parent commenter but they may mean this: Bula (Fijian greeting) [1] The same article also mentions Aloha being trademarked followed by cease and desists being sent restaurants in Hawaii using the word. [1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/366621/bula-trademarked-by-us-businessman https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/366621/bula...
- 7y ago
- akerro 7y ago>but China really needs to fall in line with the RoW and adopt sane standards for intellectual property Maybe US and China should adopt Russian standards of IP?
- zachguo 7y agoYep I cannot wait to see the days when thousands of patent trolls are coming from China.
- wavefunction 7y agoIt is overdue but it's being prosecuted under a flawed understanding of almost all aspects of the situation and inane and unfocused policy. You tackle China first while building an economic coalition of interests with shared goals. A sane and competent person would focus on one task at a time and not undercut the strategic interests required to achieve that task, achieving perhaps effectively nothing.
- jdhn 7y agoThis is my biggest complaint with Trump's tactics as well. If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. It's a shame that TPP wasn't passed because it would've really helped here.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago>If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. Thank fuck he does, quite frankly. We all dodged a bullet there.
- threeseed 7y agoThis isn't a children's playground. There could've been a targeted dispute over IP. But instead what has happened is that a range of tariffs are involved which has resulted in Trump just giving $16 billion to farmers. Some of whom are now planting crops with no intention to sell but purely to get money from the US government.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago>This isn't a children's playground. It shouldn't be, but it currently is. Over here in the UK we will probably end up with Boris 'fuck business' Johnson in power by the end of next week or so, just to complete the shitshow triumvirate that has heralded the swansong of the Conservative party. The only silver lining I can see of the present political zeitgiest, is that Marx was being extremely perceptive when he said that history repeats itself twice. We are currently deep into the farce stage with no signs of slowing. If any of these folks were in any way competent, we would be in real trouble.
- incompatible 7y agoI don't think it's specifically about China, but with international issues of trademarks. Look at ugg boots, considered generic in Australia and New Zealand, but aggressively trademarked by Dekkers elsewhere in the world, including the USA. Producers from Australia can't use the name when exporting.
- ImprovedSilence 7y agohuh. TIL. Never knew that was a generic name.
- adinobro 7y agoIn Australia, it was considered a type of shoe like a "boot". We got really annoyed when a US company trademarked an Australian product and then stopped Australian companies from selling it under the name they had been using for decades. Sort of like this exact case...
- siquick 7y agoThank you for posting this. A timely reminder that the problem isn't China, or any country in specific - the problem is greed.
- MRD85 7y agoIt's not even closely related to any brand here. It's completely generic. Most of the time the ugg boots producers are really small businesses and you purchase locally made ones.
- pvaldes 7y agoA possible solution would be the [australian] government trademarking their traditional product names or a similar variant, and then acting as umbrella for thousands of australian small companies. Granting a free use of the term and defense against predatory practices. A sort of shared trademark. Maybe should be named uggstralian boots from now on.
- DarkWiiPlayer 7y agoChinas position on IP is a complicated mess. Considering their political and economic background as well as their position in international politics, I can kinda understand why they don't have much interest in honouring the creations of others.
- gnopgnip 7y agoThere are tradeoffs to either a file first system like in China or a first to use system like in the US.