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The Overprotected American Child
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- viburnum 8y agoChild poverty is the real problem. https://peoplespolicyproject.org/2018/02/16/americas-bizarre-income-distribution-for-children/ https://peoplespolicyproject.org/2018/02/16/americas-bizarre...
- Waterluvian 8y agoGeez, that article really felt light on examination, then bam, "the solution is obvious, tax the rich more!" And why wouldn't they compare the US to other countries like Canada, Germany, UK, France, etc. ? We all already know that the Nordic countries really have their act together and are effectively a cherry picked example. Maybe I'm being paranoid but is this what fake news looks like? The whole point of the article seems to be to further the "tax the rich" argument.
- notadoc 8y ago> Maybe I'm being paranoid but is this what fake news looks like? Fake news is literally made up nonsense, usually that appeals to emotion or existing political bias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news
- awinder 8y agoNo, you are trying to lump state-sponsored attacks on democratic institutions in with opinion pieces that you disagree with, which is not only disengenous but also very very dangerous.
- cabaalis 8y agoFake news may not be the correct term. Astroturfing? Either way, no need to attack the person asking the question.
- awinder 8y agoFaciciously asking that question is very much an active strategy to downplay & dilute the term. And astroturfing is monied interests dressing up as grassroots. An article in a paper expressing an opinion, accompanied by some body of research, is journalism. I also didn’t really mean that to be attacking, I possibly attributed malice to misunderstanding so if that’s what happened I apologize
- Waterluvian 8y agoNope not being malicious. You're right. This isn't fake news. But it's something. I guess astroturfing fits better!
- econochoice 8y agoIt's called bias.
- walshemj 8y agoNo sure how taxing the rich is going to solve the nanny state problem here and I am probably more left wing that the average HN reader.
- closeparen 8y ago> "20 percent of US children live in families with incomes below 50 percent of the national median income" This is a bizarre metric. If richer families started having children at a higher rate, or poorer families slowed down, the problem would be fixed? What if we simply cut the pay of the upper 50%, not even redistributing the income? That would lower median income, and therefore shrink the "less than 50% of median income" demographic, "solving" child poverty.
- golergka 8y ago> If richer families started having children at a higher rate, or poorer families slowed down, the problem would be fixed? This does sound like a great idea.
- taeric 8y agoWell, yes, if richer families started having children at a higher rate, this would almost fix itself. Two major problems, though. a) By and large, rich people don't have more children and b) having a child is a good way to destroy your wealth. That is, many that are just barely in the "rich" category won't be once they have children. More, most wealth in the US does not survive generations. (And this is generally agreed to be a good thing, I believe.) For the second, ok. Cut the pay. How? That sort of suggestion is literally "wishful thinking." If everyone could get by with less money, everyone would. Folks do grab for the advantages they can get, though, and most rise in costs and pay are ascribable to scarcity. Only wishful thinking will make housing and energy costs flat across the board. Same for social mobility. Or physical mobility.
- anonymouskimmer 8y ago"b) having a child is a good way to destroy your wealth." I'd like to see a comparison between childless families and families with children, economic starting point held constant. There is the fatherhood bonus and motherhood penalty after all.
- taeric 8y ago
- novaRom 8y agoPaywall, please don't post anything without free access. Downvote
- detaro 8y agoHN explicitly allows circumventable paywalls, please don't pollute discussions with complaints about them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic.
- notadoc 8y agoOK, so what's the workaround to read this behind a paywall?
- maxyme 8y agohttp://outline.com/https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-overprotected-american-child-1527865038 http://outline.com/https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-overprot...
- dkoubsky 8y agoClick the "web" link just below the article's title. Most sites with a paywall let you read an article if you arrived at it via a google search page.
- cfadvan 8y agoIt doesn’t work, and please take the ten seconds it takes to check that your advice is relevant before you give it.
- aksss 8y agoI don’t think that works with wsj anymore since the whole Google Amp thing. Just tried your suggestion and was met with paywall after first couple paragraphs.
- danmg 8y agohttp://archive.is/kWzYa http://archive.is/kWzYa
- Pinckney 8y agoAs a counterpoint, Canada (and presumably the US too) has seen a dramatic decrease in unintentional injury mortality among children over the last 70 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28026710 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28026710
- ghaff 8y agoYes, although that study suggests the big declines have been with things like choking and burns among very young children. I don't think anyone is arguing for more dangerous products or getting rid of safety precautions for toddlers. That study also suggests more vehicle-related accidents but it's hard to know what to make of that without knowing more about the type of accidents, population patterns, etc.
- wallace_f 8y ago>I don't think anyone is arguing for more dangerous products or safety precautions for toddlers. Maybe some people think that way. Colloquially, I've heard about a million times Europeans laugh at how ridiculous they think some laws are in that regard, such as Kinder eggs being banned in America.
- ghaff 8y agoAs with many things, there's probably a lot of focus on edge cases about which reasonable people can disagree. Bucky balls were another recent case. And then there's the sheaf of safety warnings that come with every product and no one ever reads. But, mostly, getting rid of small parts in toddler toys, avoiding sharp edges, baby monitors, etc. are probably significant net positives for safety without a whole lot of downside.
- astura 8y agoThe ban on bucky balls was overturned in court. https://www.popsci.com/buckyballs-are-back-on-market https://www.popsci.com/buckyballs-are-back-on-market
- HarryHirsch 8y agoYou do wonder how a contemporary American would read Herman Hesse's Demian. Emil Sinclair, the protagonist, he had a protected childhood!
- aphextron 8y agoYou can always tell when someone grew up like this. They are always afraid of doing anything that might even remotely be considered outside the box. They lack that ability and drive to find things out for themselves, and instead rely on others for help and guidance to a fault. Professional occupations are full of these people who were coddled from birth, through college, and straight into a high paying job with zero understanding of how life actually works. It makes relating to someone like that almost impossible.
- watwut 8y agoIf they ended in high paying profession and are reasonably happy then maybe their decision to follow advice given to them was right.
- ShabbosGoy 8y agoUntil some minor setback happens. Then they have a mental breakdown.
- taeric 8y agoIs this something that actually happens, in large? I'd be interested in studies that show this happens more. Meltdowns are far from a new thing in the world. I mean, they make a nice narrative to shame people for overprotecting their kids. But this basically culminates in three of the major things that give me pause. a) Nice narrative, b) appealing argument without presented evidence, and c) shaming. Combine those and you typically have someone pushing or falling for an argument that has not been proven. And yes, we all fall for those. All the time. I am not exempt.
- trentmb 8y ago> Is this something that actually happens, in large? No, but it lets mediocre people feel good about themselves.
- 8y ago
- ourmandave 8y agoA wallet-sized Let Grow “Kid Card” is meant to be carried by children when they are out on their own, to calm the fears of overly concerned adults. https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/B3-AQ358_INDEPE_M_20180531175517.jpg https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/B3-AQ358_INDEPE_M... ^This here. Except the Concerned Adults will never get a chance to read it because they'll call the police to rescue the 12-year-old dropped off at the mall by her mom. https://www.brainchildmag.com/2014/01/guilty-as-charged/ https://www.brainchildmag.com/2014/01/guilty-as-charged/
- ebikelaw 8y agoI kinda love the integrated shruggie in their logotype.
- repsilat 8y agoI think it's "pushing upwards", as if struggling against an artificially low ceiling, not shrugging :-).
- matte_black 8y agoNo, it’s definitely a shrug. As in: “Hey! What should we do about those stray kids over there! Call the police??” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- empath75 8y agoshe left a 12 year old in charge of a three year old at the mall which is a much different situation.
- ThomPete 8y agoWhen I first moved my family (from Denmark originally) to New York we had to put our oldest son in a daycare. We have always been fairly "free range" i.e. our kids have had their share of bruises from climbing and in general being allowed to do challenging things. After a week at the daycare my wife went to pick my son up, one of the teachers pulled her aside and told her that they, unfortunately, had to report some of the bruises on his arm or shoulder (can't remember) and that they hadn't said anything about the bruises on his legs. My wife and I freaked out worried that the social services would come and take him away. Of course, we soon learned that it wasn't actually the bruises on our son they were worried about but whether we would report them for mistreating our son. The primary problem in the US is the liability issue which certainly doesn't help. People in general though are really weirdly paranoid about their kids. I always thought it would be counterproductive for them later in life. Better to fall when you are a little boy than when you are older. Anyway who knows.
- m_mueller 8y agoThis kinda story is my biggest fear - the state interfering with my family.
- osdiab 8y agoI wonder how much the built environment impacts the independence we can give our children. For instance, regarding the milestone of safely crossing the road that this article mentions, does the common milestone age decrease in more pedestrian-friendly places? It's one thing to cross a one-lane, slow-traffic narrow street in Europe versus a wide, high-speed one characteristic of most American suburbs.
- bayonetz 8y agoThe proliferation of these overprotective practices reminds me of the proliferation of simpler practices we impose on kids like showering regularly and wearing clean clothes that we just take for granted now. The link in my mind is how you can pick most any practice that is common amongst a majority of the population today and look back 50, 200, sometimes 2000 years and you can trace it back to a minority aristocratic or ruling class. You know, like medieval kings taking regular private hot baths but this not becoming feasible for the rest of Europe until the last century. Another commenter made an observation along the lines of you see overprotected children nevertheless succeeding (or failing up, depending on your perspective) professionally as adults. That would make sense if what we are doing is slowly handing down practices from the higher classes to lower. The failing up phenomenon is clearly highly correlated with the privilege you were born into. As everyone becomes relatively more privileged, then practices would radiate out and be institutionalized amongst more of the population, i.e., everyone would start overprotecting because as long as your kid makes it, worse case, they will be able to succeed via the fail up method.
- 5DFractalTetris 8y agoIt used to be said that certain kings or personages were made of glass and that if you touched them, they would shatter and the kingdom would fall. Much like a regular private hot bath, I fail to see the value of a Glass King. Once I visited the UK and some kids threw lit firecrackers into my scarf. Then all the adults kept drinking. I assume America is currently behind the times, Europe having since updated the myth to Atomic Motorcycle Danger King. This failure has something to do with Americans having enjoyed Downton Abbey more than Mad Max: Fury Road. My investigation continues.
- cosmojg 8y agoDon't forget to come back here when you ultimately publish your findings. I know I'll be keeping an eye open.
- 5DFractalTetris 8y agoI grew up in the Danger Zone and it was dull.
- garyvee_ 8y agoPaywall removed https://outline.com/E8VPNv https://outline.com/E8VPNv
- tropo 8y agoAbraham Lincoln was left in a cabin for 6 months, responsible for his sister, when he was 9 and she was 11. There were some dried berries to eat, and Abraham Lincoln could go hunt with a rifle. The house didn't have power or water. He turned out OK. Modern social workers would have taken him. Heck, they'd literally swipe baby Jesus.