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Trying to corner the market on legal marijuana
- incompatible 9y agoAh, patents again. Who wants free markets when you can have a winner-take-all system based on government-granted monopolies.
- etplayer 9y agoAh, capitalism. Who wants the free association of individual producers as labourers when you can have wage labour and the cycle of capital crisis in a commodity economy backed up by the State acting on behalf of the property owners for the benefit of the rich to the detriment of the poor as Adam Smith noted even in the 18th century? The free market was so called because it is free from control of its participants :) Edit: To be clear, I'm arguing against capitalism as a manifestation of freedom, I'm sure we both agree that patents and copyrights should not exist in a free society, though.
- scaryspooky 9y agoAh, socialism. Who wants a non-totalitarian state when you can just enslave the people like all the utopian socialist societies. Oh, are we just being hyperbolic? A capitalist would say a socialist is wrong and this is cronyism. A socialist would say capitalism is wrong and this is cronyism.
- ringaroundthetx 9y agoman, 'socialist' really has a branding problem Guess the european nations are going to simply need a new word in order to stop being conflated with North Korea, and former european nations
- te_chris 9y agoOnly if you're American and, honestly, after the shit the American electorate just pulled by electing Trump, you're on your own sorting this shit out. Come back to the world when you've worked out how to behave and not elect dangerous morons.
- smcl 9y agoI thought it's more of a dirty word over in the USA, and in Western + Northern Europe we're generally fine with it. The UK's head of the opposition (Jeremy Corbyn) is a self-described socialist and massively ate into the majority the Conservative party had in the last election. Germany, France and the nordic countries are pretty ok with the word and I know Portugal is the same too. These are just the ones I can speak of, the remainder I'd presume to be not too different. It's more of an issue in former warsaw pact countries who overthrew a "socialist" government in the late 80s however. I know among my group of friends I'd get eye-rolls and chuckles if I described myself as a socialist
- Nursie 9y agoI don't think many of the European nations woukd agree they are socialist, most see themselves trying to balance socialism and capitalism to gain the greatest benefit for all. How successful their efforts have been is up to the individual to judge. You are right that it's not as much of a dirty word here.
- saiya-jin 9y agounless you come from former soviet bloc/sphere of influence/iron curtain, then anything-socialism is a grave insult and spit in your face. we've seen it fail big time, and I'll take the evils of capitalism over those evils any day, any time.
- tpm 9y agoSocialism does not mean redistribution. There are currently no socialist countries in Europe, if we take the definition of socialism as social ownership and democratic control of the means of production. Some socialist policies are implemented in some sectors of the economy and society in some countries, but there is no country in Europe where this is true for large enough parts of the economy.
- ringaroundthetx 9y agoYeah but any politically active "socialist" in America is talking about "implementing some socialist policies in some sectors of the economy and society" just like in Western Europe and gets run out by other Americans in all levels of society that imagine North Korea because of the word alone branding problem. if you are talking about one thing and the other people don't understand, then the language isn't working.
- legulere 9y agoYou talk like soviet-style socialism is the only alternative to capitalism, while even your parent comment talked about the concept of the free market by Adam Smith which is heavily based on the economic model that the Arab countries had successfully for centuries. In China you even have history of a pro-market anti-capital system for millennia.
- etplayer 9y agoI don't wish to excuse past totalitarian states, but the Communist hypothesis as Badiou writes is much broader than totalitarian forms of government; it is the job of modern day Marxists to consider why it happens and how to prevent it. I have nothing against free trade, I am opposed to the idea that capitalism promotes a 'free' society. Although there are market Socialists, I am not one of them, because I do no think that it goes far enough to eliminate the law of Value which stands in the way of emancipation of the labourer from capital.
- dmichulke 9y agoPlease note that free market capitalism (Austrian economics) is not at all in favor of patents (because it creates a temporary monopoly), though I think copyrights are still a thing (because you must not just copy somebody else's work and just claim it was yours). You may think the above two reasons apply to both patents and copyrights but I will argue they don't once someone asks me for it :)
- arca_vorago 9y agoWhat annoys me is I was trying to tell people this was were this was headed. I suspect Monsanto is the big player or affiliated with whoever it is. The right to grow needs yo be solidified.
- rando444 9y agoIf you'd read the article, you'd know it's not Monsanto.
- gwern 9y agoIt would not be surprising if they were counting on the possibility of selling to the giants like Monsanto. The giants don't dare get involved directly at the early stage, just too much legal and reputational danger, but they are one of the logical exits for people who can go in earlier and lock up all the IP.
- scaryspooky 9y agoHonestly the biggest fear is you can't lawfully use water to grow your own food. Patents be damned, you will be in jail in many states if your water use wasn't to just poop in a toilet. I guess people in a desert like Phoenix will be able to justify a grass lawn and a pool via some absurd use of water law.
- rando444 9y agoGreat article. I love good journalism like this. Well written, informative, and interesting. Thanks for sharing!
- josefdlange 9y agoI in particular enjoyed the narrative it was woven into -- following the steps of the investigation bit by bit.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- DoctorNick 9y agoI went ahead and looked up these patents. This one looks particularly bad: https://www.google.com/patents/US9370164 https://www.google.com/patents/US9370164 This basically grants them a patent on every single cannabis plant which has >3% THC and CBD, and which Myrcene is not the dominant terpine. Can anyone who knows their bud say which strains this could be applied to? Also, the specification on this is HUGE. This represents a large investment; they're going to filing continuations on this until the cows come home. EDIT: I found this website: http://analytical360.com/ http://analytical360.com/ This lists a number of strains that could potentially read on this, such as Gorilla Glue: http://analytical360.com/m/archived/261533 http://analytical360.com/m/archived/261533
- jasonlaramburu 9y agoMyrcene is the dominant terpene in all strains of cannabis according to this study: http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha4208.html http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha4208.ht... Cannabis has been cultivated and sold illegally in the US for almost a century. It seems unlikely that the USPTO would be able to enforce compliance when law enforcement has not.
- microcolonel 9y agoThe PTO is not charged with enforcing patents, that's what the courts are for.
- Taek 9y agoLegal marijuana will push out illegal marijuana. Large, industrial farms will outcompete anyone who is growing illegally. And that is going to make it much easier to regulate. Patents have the potential to pick the winners in this industry if they are handed out irresponsibily.
- code_duck 9y agoCurrently, the black market can provide cannabis in colorado, california or oregon for about half the price of the legal market (and generally, if you wanted half a lb to stock up for personal use, you can't just go buy it at a store anyway). Part of the lower price is due to competition from legal sources, part due to not paying taxes. Personally, I would rather grow it at home exactly like tomatoes, if it's herb. Most of the action these days is in extracts and fine products for connoisseurs. Don't underestimate the semi-luxury market - the same demographic who support microbreweries and small coffee roasters like cannabis. While there will be giant mass market Wal-Weed, and also large plantations like the wine complex of Napa, there will also be a lot, lot of small growers, extractors and breeders.
- drewmol 9y agoI once had an economics professor who insisted the bigger hurdle to marijuana legalization was monetizing it. It's a quite unique cash crop in that it only takes a small area and small amout of labor to produce large supply. His words, paraphrased: "You can grow enough marijuana in your basement to meet the demands of your whole neighborhood! And it's a difficult thing to patent to use IP ownership as a revenue model..." Looks like BioTech Institute LLC (and I'm sure lots of others) are trying to address the second point.
- toufka 9y agoSimilar to tobacco - which has a bunch of regulations associated with growing it for sale.
- drewmol 9y agoSimilar, however the space requirement to produce enough tobacco to satisfy the demand of a typical cigarette/cigar smoker is drastically larger than for marijuana.
- grecy 9y agoIt's also extremely simple to produce enough alcohol for your entire neighborhood in your basement with a home-made still. That has not stopped the monetization of alcohol... People who want to make billions from this will simply lobby until there are extremely strict laws in place to protect their profits, and then also lobby to make sure there are wars and extremely strict punishments for violators of those laws.
- indescions_2017 9y agoHeadline of this evening's South China Morning Post: How China Quietly Grew Into a Cannabis Superpower http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2108347/green-gold-how-china-quietly-grew-cannabis-superpower http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2108347/green... Article states that more than half of the 600 patents related to cannabis are held in China. Unclear if they relate to industrial hemp or medicinal uses. The race to get coveted FDA approval is even more heated. If GW Pharmaceuticals' stock price is any indication, it may be first out the gate with its CBD-based epilepsy treatment, Epidiolex. A powerful drug derived from marijuana is on the cusp of federal approval http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-epilepsy-drug-2017-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-epilepsy-drug-2017-...
- millzlane 9y agoFunny....my cousin just got locked up for that a few weeks ago.
- stephengillie 9y agoTell him to move somewhere that it's legal.
- Simon_says 9y agoHis ability to move now might be impeded.
- mnm1 9y agoThis is absurd. If these patents are ever enforced, I hope the cannabis industry doesn't stop until they've destroyed this company, the people who run it, and anyone who associates with them. In a court of law or otherwise.
- gcb0 9y agothey already are for soy and corn et al...
- perpetualcrayon 9y agoWhat is the current state of Case Law with regard to DNA in the US? And how, if at all, would this carry over to the genetics of plants? How much of a natural product is it safe to say is patentable? And how much of the patent has to depend on things like "processes of manufacturing", etc?
- igichdyfhc 9y agoIts amazing that we at all allow the possibility of a field brimming with promise, that resulted in so much oppression to poor minorites, to be suddenly, just as the moment turned towards freedom, captured and terms dictated by a small group of rich people when others have bled, been deprived of their freedom, and were there first.
- Animats 9y agoNobody filed a post-grant objection. It's easy to challenge a patent in the first 9 months, but 9,370,164 has been out for more than a year.
- rdiddly 9y agoSo everybody goes back to growing it surreptitiously.
- erikb 9y agoThe sad thing about growing up is that most of the magic unicorns die. Yes, it is a nice story, but if it is not the 1 in a million exceptional story it's probably one of the five big players behind this company. And if they really are close to getting a legal lock on the market the other big players are either making deals with them already behind closed doors or they are partnering up and we'll soon see legal battles about these patents. For the end result it also doesn't really matter how the fight will go. Either 1, 2 or 3 of them will find a balance that all of them can live with and the rest of the market will just die, starting from the smaller participants, either by going bankrupt or by merging with bigger players. Soon everything will become legal and you can buy standardized packages in the super market with a few illegal players continuing to gamble against the law but never really making big bucks out of it.