Manfredo_1

5 ms·

1.
by Manfredo_1 5y ago
> And you still are pretending that steam power plants running on hydrogen don't exist. Yet again, you originally said we could use gas turbines for hydrogen storage. Not steam turbines. Of course steam turbines can easily be run of
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
I didn't reject future hydrogen gas turbines. In fact, I'm the one who brought them up . That's the entire point I'm making: hydrogen gas turbines are still in development. If hydrogen gas turbines already exist, why ar
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
An electric car is as green as the grid that powers it. But a hybrid will never be green even if the grid is 100% green because it still burns fossil fuels. Same with a turbine that consumes a mixture containing natural gas. If your generat
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Why? Electric cars don't use a mixture of gas and batteries. Those cars do exist and we call them "hybrids". But those are not carbon neutral and we don't pretend they are.
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
The goalpost never moved. If you want to use hydrogen storage in a carbon neutral grid you need 100% hydrogen fuel. We're not there there yet. And we won't be there for the better part of a decade, or longer. I guess I'll kee
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Most companies are targeting hydrogen gas turbines to be produced in 2030 or 2040: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2019/... They aren't "off the shelf" technolo
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Why would it count in the context of climate change? It's still emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. And again, this is one specific model. Many gas turbines are only capable of much smaller concentrations: https://w
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
> So how else we're suppose to interpret this statement: "No, hydrogen rapidly corrodes any metals that it comes into contact with. If they are interchangeable, expect drastically smaller service intervals." I'm not s
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
> nevermind this whole goalpost moving argument of "current gas turbine already in existence." This was the original goalpost. Let's re-read it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26599162 > Those gas
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
If we aren't using combined cycle gas turbines round-trip efficiency of hydrogen storage is seriously reduced. I'm not moving any goalpost. This is your comment when you claimed that gas turbines could be repurposed to burn hydrog
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Sure, we could burn hydrogen and drive a boiler like a coal plant. But that's not where this comment thread started. > Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines Sure, if you just wan
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Right. Lithium batteries won't cut it. That leaves geographically-dependent hydroelectricity, which isn't so easy to build. And then proposed solutions that are still in the prototyping phase, and aren't commercially availabl
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
It was done for a very short duration during the 1980s as a technology demonstrator. A prototype, not an actually commercially viable product. Yes, we can improve on a 33 year old technology, but it's not something we can just buy off
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
For the third time, storage is only one part of the puzzle. We also need a way to cheaply electrolyze water into hydrogen, compress it into the storage facility, and then use it to generate electricity. Nobody doubts that you can pump hydro
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Right, but then we're not talking about combined-cycle gas turbines to convert hydrogen back into electricity. If we're going to boil water than that's much less efficient than the ~66% efficiency we get out of combined cycle
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
> A gas turbine burning hydrogen does not experience any stresses that is meaningfully different from one burning natural gas or kerosene. Simply applied engineering can solve all of the issues associated with hydrogen gas turbines. Did
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
A solar heavy network would still need 12 hours of storage to accommodate nighttime energy use. More actually, because of greater seasonal fluctuations further from the equator. All of the Americas experience night time simultaneously for a
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
That link you provided doesn't encompass gas turbines. Gas turbines capable of burning hydrogen do exist, but only at smaller concentrations, 70% methane and 30% hydrogen or less.
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
That's a question that can't be answered until people actually build hydrogen storage facilities at scale. Why shouldn't nuclear plants scale? They're mostly just steel and concrete. Uranium is more than 40 times more pr
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
> So, when you said hydrogen rapidly corrodes any metal it comes into contact with, that didn't include the metal that the chemical industry makes their equipment from? So, let's just put a "this is chemical industry"
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
We'd actually need 3 weeks of storage to migrate to a fully renewable grid: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/03/01/12-hours-energy-stora...
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Then our transition to solar + wind needs to include the cost of installing a septic tank and water reservoir in every household. And a thermal battery for heating. And an electric battery for lighting. And all the other things we'll n
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Storing hydrogen is only one piece of the puzzle. Yes, if you happen to live near an abandoned salt mine that's a convenient place to put a large quantity of hydrogen. That doesn't solve the problem of massive electrolysis facilit
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
You're falling back to the "if it works on paper it'll be guaranteed to work at scale, and work cheaply" argument. Please stop this foolishness. It's not just a question of storage, you can just use a salt cavern fo
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
We've been using hydrogen in the chemical industry. We haven't been using hydrogen to drive combustion turbines very much, and even then it's in a mixture of natural gas. Unfortunately, those alloys that experience embrittlem
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
That "manipulation of hydrogen" mostly involves use in the the chemical industry. We don't use hydrogen to power gas turbines. I'm not sure why you're trying to deny the existence of chemical facts: https:/&#x
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Name one hydrogen electric grid storage facility. Not prototypes, but actual commercial facilities connected to the grid. You insist that hydrogen is so technically ready, yet nobody is using it.
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
No, hydrogen rapidly corrodes any metals that it comes into contact with. If they are interchangeable, expect drastically smaller service intervals.
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
No, you have salt caverns with a volume sufficient to accommodate a lot of hydrogen. Actually implementing such a solution involves massive scale electrolysis, and either massive scales of oxidation cells or gas turbines designed to burn hy
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by Manfredo_1 5y ago
Yes, those incentives exist to try and shape demand. But in practice, people rarely take advantage of them. And some things really can't be shaped. The pumps that deliver your water cannot have their demand shaped, unless you're w

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