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> A gas turbine burning hydrogen does not experience any stresses that is meaningfully different from one burning natural gas or kerosene. Simply applied engine

> A gas turbine burning hydrogen does not experience any stresses that is meaningfully different from one burning natural gas or kerosene. Simply applied engineering can solve all of the issues associated with hydrogen gas turbines. Did you misread that comment? The point was that hydrogen's application in the chemical industry don't involve turbine blades spinning at extreme speeds at high temperatures. Yes, the principle of combusting a gas, driving a turbine with the expanding gas, and using that turbine to drive a compressor is the same. That doesn't mean you can just feed a gasoline powered turbine hydrogen and be done with it. The turbines that can run hydrogen today can only run a small portion of it. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/12/08/is-the-time-now-ripe-for-planes-to-run-on-hydrogen https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/12/08/... > The challenges of using hydrogen go beyond body shape, though. Redesigning a turbine engine to run on the stuff will be a multi-billion-dollar endeavour. Hydrogen burns faster than kerosene, and also burns hotter. That means materials exposed to its combustion experience greater stresses. It also risks increasing the pollution generated in the form of oxides of nitrogen, which would partially negate the environmental benefits of burning hydrogen. And it would be useful as well to arrange matters so that some of the energy used to compress or liquefy the hydrogen for storage could be recovered and put to work. The Soviets built a plane that flew on hydrogen, but it only completed 100 flights. And only part of those were with hydrogen, the rest were with natural gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155

Hypx 5y ago
> The Soviets built a plane that flew on hydrogen, but it only completed 100 flights. And only part of those were with hydrogen, the rest were with natural gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 So you admit this has been done since the 1980s? You seriously don't think we can improve on 33 year old technology? How dishonest are you going to get before you will admit you were wrong?
- Manfredo_1 5y ago
  It was done for a very short duration during the 1980s as a technology demonstrator. A prototype, not an actually commercially viable product. Yes, we can improve on a 33 year old technology, but it's not something we can just buy off the shelf. GE thinks it'll take until 2045 to make turbines that run off of 100% hydrogen. > How dishonest are you going to get before you will admit you were wrong? When you show me where I can buy a gas turbine that runs off of hydrogen. Not a gas turbine that runs mostly off of natural gas with a little bit of hydrogen mixed in. Not a press release of a company saying "we have experience with hydrogen turbines". If you're going to say that hydrogen gas turbines are off-the-shelf then show me the shelf off of which I can buy it.
  - Hypx 5y ago
    Are you familiar with the term "moving the goalposts"?
    - Manfredo_1 5y ago
      Yes, I'm familiar with moving the goalposts. It's exactly what you've been doing in this thread. First you claimed that existing natural gas turbines could be modified to run hydrogen. That hydrogen turbines usable for grid generation were off the shelf. After realizing that these turbines only burn a mixture of 30% hydrogen and 70% natural gas you moved to goalpost to saying, "we have experience with hydrogen turbines". I certainly don't doubt the latter - in fact I'm the who provided evidence of it! But that doesn't have much bearing on your first goalpost: that the existing fleet of gas turbines can be powered with hydrogen. For the third time, if this modification is so simple why is GE saying it won't be until 2045 that its turbines will be able to run 100% natural gas? Hydrogen gas turbines are not off the shelf devices.
      - Hypx 5y ago
        You do realize that has more to do with the availability of hydrogen and that they only have to hit their emissions target by 2050? If you have done any kind of digging at all you realize that they have ran gas turbines at 90% hydrogen decades ago: https://www.ge.com/news/reports/hydrogen-generation-gas-turbines-can-run-abundant-element-universe https://www.ge.com/news/reports/hydrogen-generation-gas-turb... > Take the Gibraltar-San Roque oil refinery in Spain, where the GE-made 6B.03 turbine has logged thousands of hours burning a blend of fuel gas and hydrogen. This same 6B.03 machine is also working in a South Korean refinery, where it has racked up more than 20 years burning a fuel blend containing more than 70 percent hydrogen. This turbine has even gone all the way up to a 90 percent hydrogen blend. So even your goalpost moving argument is still wrong. This whole thing started because no one here thought someone would seriously try to argue that hydrogen gas turbines are impossible. For some of us this was too obvious to even bother trying to debunk.

Hypx 5y ago

> The Soviets built a plane that flew on hydrogen, but it only completed 100 flights. And only part of those were with hydrogen, the rest were with natural gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-155 So you admit this has been done since the 1980s? You seriously don't think we can improve on 33 year old technology? How dishonest are you going to get before you will admit you were wrong?

Manfredo_1 5y ago
It was done for a very short duration during the 1980s as a technology demonstrator. A prototype, not an actually commercially viable product. Yes, we can improve on a 33 year old technology, but it's not something we can just buy off the shelf. GE thinks it'll take until 2045 to make turbines that run off of 100% hydrogen. > How dishonest are you going to get before you will admit you were wrong? When you show me where I can buy a gas turbine that runs off of hydrogen. Not a gas turbine that runs mostly off of natural gas with a little bit of hydrogen mixed in. Not a press release of a company saying "we have experience with hydrogen turbines". If you're going to say that hydrogen gas turbines are off-the-shelf then show me the shelf off of which I can buy it.
- Hypx 5y ago
  Are you familiar with the term "moving the goalposts"?
  - Manfredo_1 5y ago
    Yes, I'm familiar with moving the goalposts. It's exactly what you've been doing in this thread. First you claimed that existing natural gas turbines could be modified to run hydrogen. That hydrogen turbines usable for grid generation were off the shelf. After realizing that these turbines only burn a mixture of 30% hydrogen and 70% natural gas you moved to goalpost to saying, "we have experience with hydrogen turbines". I certainly don't doubt the latter - in fact I'm the who provided evidence of it! But that doesn't have much bearing on your first goalpost: that the existing fleet of gas turbines can be powered with hydrogen. For the third time, if this modification is so simple why is GE saying it won't be until 2045 that its turbines will be able to run 100% natural gas? Hydrogen gas turbines are not off the shelf devices.
    - Hypx 5y ago
      You do realize that has more to do with the availability of hydrogen and that they only have to hit their emissions target by 2050? If you have done any kind of digging at all you realize that they have ran gas turbines at 90% hydrogen decades ago: https://www.ge.com/news/reports/hydrogen-generation-gas-turbines-can-run-abundant-element-universe https://www.ge.com/news/reports/hydrogen-generation-gas-turb... > Take the Gibraltar-San Roque oil refinery in Spain, where the GE-made 6B.03 turbine has logged thousands of hours burning a blend of fuel gas and hydrogen. This same 6B.03 machine is also working in a South Korean refinery, where it has racked up more than 20 years burning a fuel blend containing more than 70 percent hydrogen. This turbine has even gone all the way up to a 90 percent hydrogen blend. So even your goalpost moving argument is still wrong. This whole thing started because no one here thought someone would seriously try to argue that hydrogen gas turbines are impossible. For some of us this was too obvious to even bother trying to debunk.