9 ms·

Founder Depression

• shantanubala 12y ago
  If anyone feels like they need someone to talk to, send me an email (in my profile). If you're in San Francisco, we can also get coffee.
  • bryanh 12y ago
    Same here! Email in profile, in the Mountain View area for coffee/beers.
    • feadog 12y ago
      Anyone in the East Bay?
      • Vekz 12y ago
        I'm in Oakland with the same offer
        • stcredzero 12y ago
          How does one get in touch?
          • zemvpferreira 12y ago
            In my case, my email is in my profile, that'd be the easiest. It's ze@fnvlabs.com
        • zemvpferreira 12y ago
          I'm in Oakland too and have some experience with the ups and downs (and downs, and downs) of starting a company. If anyone could use a sympathetic ear, I'd like to help.
          • lisper 12y ago
            +1. I'm about to go oh for five so I definitely know how it goes. Maybe we should start a support group.
  • fvryan 12y ago
    Ditto. More than happy to listen and talk through experiences. We've certainly had our fair share. Can Skype or meet up in SF, email in profile. YC alum 3yrs into enterprise software startup.
  • fletchowns 12y ago
    That's really nice of you to offer but...who are you? The About Me section on your site is just blank. http://sbala.org/about-me/ http://sbala.org/about-me/
  • deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  • mbesto 12y ago
    Same here. Email in profile. Located in SF and Palo Alto. (sometimes it helps to mention backgrounds so people can relate. I'm on my 3rd-ish startup, failed twice, digital nomad, 29 years old from the midwest, lived in London, NYC, Philly, and Germany, gf is also doing a startup but in the hardware space, I console her a lot on startup life)
  • imperialdrive 12y ago
    I'm in SOMA/Potrero - my treat!
  • jamesisaac 12y ago
    Same offer for London, UK, from me.
  • Balgair 12y ago
    Ditto for LA.
  • mjpizz 12y ago
    same offer, Palo Alto or SF (email in my profile). Happy to listen over coffee, a meal, or breath of fresh air on a hike.
  • bharath28 12y ago
    Everyone on this thread - you are amazing - bless you for offering to talk to people who need a sympathetic ear.
  • visakanv 12y ago
    Singaporeans, hit me up! :-) Here to listen.
  • BenC88 12y ago
    Same offer for London (Shoreditch/Old street)
  • cviedmai 12y ago
    Same in Madrid. Twice entrepreneur. Not an expert but I know what it is like. Coffee or a beer, whatever is good.
  • kchoudhu 12y ago
    New York here -- not in the startup scene, but still technical and happy to talk things through with folks if they're interested.
  • arbuge 12y ago
    Same offer for Dallas.
• taylorhou 12y ago
  for the significant others of founders - http://lifeofastartupgf.com http://lifeofastartupgf.com - being in a relationship with a founder is tough and sometimes, extremely stressful.
  • eli 12y ago
    I guess it's the thought that counts, but that's not a resource with a lot of depth. My wife keeps saying she should organize a Startup Wives reality show, but I think we'd have to manufacture a lot of the drama.
    • tossmeaway 12y ago
      Get the creative juices flowing and forget reality show.
    • satishmreddy 12y ago
      http://www.amazon.com/Startup-Life-Surviving-Relationship-Entrepreneur/dp/1480563862 http://www.amazon.com/Startup-Life-Surviving-Relationship-En... Book written by Brad Feld and Amy (his spouse)
    • billmalarky 12y ago
      All reality show drama is completely manufactured. It's still a great idea for a reality show (I can't believe I just said that).
• trevmckendrick 12y ago
  It will go a long way to have more people like Sam say "it's okay to talk." It's not like people have to open their souls on their blogs. But when high profile individuals like Sam "proclaim" that it's okay to talk about this, somehow it feels a lot safer to open up to people in person. Especially if they're in a similar situation.
• joshdance 12y ago
  Feel like I should offer this as well. If anyone feels like they need someone to talk to, send me an email (in my profile). If you are in Utah, we can grab food.
  • daveslash 12y ago
    That's very kind of you. I used to live in Utah, and still have many connections there. If you don't mind, I'll drop your name if any friends there could benefit from a quick chat with a real person. I'm in San Diego and the reverse offer stands.
    • joshdance 12y ago
      For sure!
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• wjessup 12y ago
  This is also a good way to filter out who is actually your friend or who is hanging with you because "you're killing it."
  • cgriswald 12y ago
    No. It's not good for that at all. Depression is a monster. It eats relationships for breakfast. Friends who have not had depression will not understand it. There will be almost nothing they can do to help, but they'll want to help and find it a very frustrating experience. In the long run, those relationships will be very difficult to maintain. Hyperbole and a Half has what I think is the best "layman" explanation for what depression is really like: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-...
• pbiggar 12y ago
  > You’ll also be surprised how much you find other founders are willing to listen. This is super important. Non-founders often will not get it, in my experience. If you haven't started a company, you often will not have experienced the intense ups and downs, and just how fucked everything can be, even when you pour your life and soul into it, and that there really can be a light on the other side of the tunnel. One brief tip: it is OK to give up your startup - don't feel that you can't. If you're in a dark place, do take up the kind offers that people are making in this thread. (I'm paul@circleci.com if you want to chat, and I've publicly fucked up one startup, so I understand.)
  • npizzolato 12y ago
    >Non-founders often will not get it, in my experience. This is the kind of self important nonsense I would expect from a high schooler. Sorry, but starting a company is not the only way to feel intense ups and downs, or to put your heart into something only to be disappointed. Maybe thinking that you're problems are completely unique is contributing to the problem. There are lots of other people with their own problems who are either able to relate or at least empathize.
    • acgourley 12y ago
      They won't get the particular contexts and situations. To have this conversation with a non-founder you'll be explaining a lot of jargon, background and cause-effect relationships.
    • rpgmaker 12y ago
      He was talking about "You’ll also be surprised how much you find other founders are willing to listen." specifically.
    • savrajsingh 12y ago
      Non-founders are like "oh just sell to google," so no, they don't understand :/
  • thrwawyfounder 12y ago
• sinak 12y ago
  Great post. I wonder whether organizations like YC might consider offering compensation for seeing a therapist during and after their batch, and even perhaps going as far as recommending a particular local therapist. I've experienced depression while running a startup, and seeing a therapist was immensely helpful. A therapist who regularly sees founders as clients would have a stronger-than-usual feedback loop on what sorts of advice and recommendations can help. Edit: While I think the advice of talking to other founders about depression is really excellent for those who have that option, I think back to when I've experienced depression and wonder whether it would have helped. Specifically I'm not sure I was even in a state to be able to act upon that advice. Generally my sense of self-worth was so deflated that it was very difficult to discuss it with anyone, and particularly anyone who I wasn't close friends with. Beyond my co-founders, few of my close friends were entrepreneurs.
  • hippich 12y ago
    wtf is that? yes, depression is bad, but YC should compensate treatment? Entrepreneurship is hard, everyone says that. So you should either expect to deal with consequences or not even get started. What kinda entrepreneur will graduate from YC if they have to be kinder-gardened?
    • balor123 12y ago
      Humans are, unsurprisingly, human. To understand why a proposal like this makes sense, you first need to accept that statement.
    • sillysaurus3 12y ago
      Are you equating seeing a counsellor with being kindergartened?
      • hippich 12y ago
        Kinda in this case. What people ask next? Guaranteed employment if their super new idea fail?
• salman89 12y ago
  I don't think it is as simple as learning that you can talk about it - you have to learn who to talk about it too. Not everyone wants to hear that things are not working quite as planned - most people would rather just hear "Great!"
• zoba 12y ago
  The app Secret seems to be a big vent for this feeling. I regularly see people posting about their own companies and feeling overwhelmed. The replies are always supportive and typically several are along the lines of being in the same boat.
  • collinjackson 12y ago
    Beware of trolls, though. Secret isn't immune from the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
• georgewfraser 12y ago
  Another good resource is the classic "Feeling Good" [1], which describes basic cognitive behavioral therapy in a self-help format. It's old but good and has been validated in clinical trials. [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0380810336?pc_redir=1402628516&robot_redir=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0380810336?pc_redir=1402628516...
  • eatitraw 12y ago
    I second, "Feeling Good" is great. BTW, there is another book by the same author(David Burns) -- "When Panic Attacks" [1]. It is focused on anxiety, not depression, but these two conditions often go hand in hand. [1] http://amzn.com/076792083X http://amzn.com/076792083X
  • comrh 12y ago
    After years of bouncing around therapists, I found CBT. It fit my personality (obsessive, perfectionist, anxious) so well and has altered, for the better, how I approach every thought.
• kyro 12y ago
  Can someone provide insight on life after a failed startup, in terms of career prospects? Often depression can make you feel as if you're failing on all fronts, that nothing will get better in the foreseeable future. Most of the time that really isn't true. You're often stuck in a temporary rut that your mind drastically exaggerates. But for a founder who's going through a dark time and whose startup ultimately fails, is it easy to pick yourself up again? Can you realistically transition into a more stable job where you'll have more energy to improve your life? I've heard from quite a few that the years spent on a failed startup do not improve your career options, and for a founder that may find themselves depressed running a company, I can't imagine such poor prospects lending any hope.
  • tptacek 12y ago
    Yes, it's easy to pick yourself up again. As major life events go, the failure of a startup is not one of the harder ones to metabolize (but it sure feels like it is in the middle of it). Here's something I wrote a few months ago that covers the same ground: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7140231#up_7140423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7140231#up_7140423
  • jliptzin 12y ago
    Just from empirical observation, healthy people will naturally adjust to new circumstances, even terrible ones. It's the time spent transitioning between states that makes us depressed. Otherwise, we'd never be able to overcome the loss of a loved one, a bad diagnosis, bankruptcy, etc. This is why it's important to have someone to talk to so you can get through this period of downtime, and if you notice a friend struggling, go the extra mile to help take her mind off whatever she's going through to avoid something like suicide which, sadly, happened to someone close to me. On the flip side, this probably explains why the extremely wealthy are usually not happier than the not so wealthy - they've mentally adjusted to their new state. So if you find yourself depressed and can't talk to anyone, you can at least count on time to heal your wound.
  • te_chris 12y ago
    Honestly, and this is all my personal experience so not really generalizable, but finally admitting that my old startup had failed and we were going to shut it down was like getting released from a prison. Instantly you no longer have to worry about the thing you spent all your time worrying about and you can re-balance. It's pretty liberating in all honesty. Just make sure you have people around to support you and also to use all that new found mental capacity on.
• coffeemug 12y ago
  I've been to some really dark places and back. If anyone needs to talk, shoot me an e-mail -- slava@rethinkdb.com. I'll buy you coffee, listen, and try to help you find a better place.
  • bryanh 12y ago
    I will attest that Slava is not only wicked smart, but a great person to just talk with.
  • zeeshanm 12y ago
    Thumbs up for this!
• gautambay 12y ago
  I've found it super helpful to surround myself by other entrepreneurs (they "get it" more easily). With the best ones, we can both speak with our guards down, and be open about our vulnerabilities. I don't have data on this, but I actually believe you increase your odds of success by being open about your insecurities. Among other things, it helps you form connections that are more human. If anyone in SF would like to talk through stuff, my email is in my profile. I've seen my share of lows, and been helped by other entrepreneurs. Would like to pass it forward.
• deleted 12y ago
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• wellboy 12y ago
  You might also checkout http://www.startupsanonymo.us/ http://www.startupsanonymo.us/. Two great guys, also founders who have been there and who just listen, for free and offer some feedback. Great project, way too little exposure for them though.
• earbitscom 12y ago
  Am I qualified to chime in? We just shut down today after 4.5 years. ;) This is very true, and unfortunate. It makes it easy to feel like everyone is being successful except you. I realized this a couple years ago and, when talking to other founders, I just stopped sugar coating things about my situation. I would tell them about our struggles, what was going on, and its affect on me. I don't think I've ever been brought to tears as many times as this year. It is super painful, but lying about it is bad for all involved. You can't get the support you need, nor provide proper support to others. I can definitely vouch for the dark days. I feel fortunate to be an eternal optimist who knows these things are temporary, but the startup lows are about as low as they come. On top of that, you have things like breakups, family emergencies and other tragedies that are already hard enough to deal with when you are not nursing a struggling company. When those things hit at the same time, it can feel impossible to do anything. Seriously, as a founder, find a few people you can really confide in and do so. And, don't be afraid to say things aren't going well. You never know what people can do to help. On that note, though today isn't the best day for me to cheer up others, I'm available to chat for any founder going through dark days. joey@earbits.com
  • thegeomaster 12y ago
    > It makes it easy to feel like everyone is being successful except you. I'd say this is hardly a case only when you're a founder. Throughout life, if you keep high expectations of yourself (which is IMHO a good thing in the long run), you will constantly feel like people around you are succeeding, and you're struggling. I've sometimes felt that way, but the key, for me at least, was to learn to take it easy on myself from time to time and not to be sickly critical of my own work. Sometimes people feel like everyone else is succeeding and they are failing because, well, it is true to some extent observable by them. (It sounds grim, but in reality you can mostly turn the tables if you invest enough effort.) However, sometimes you can get that feel if you constantly observe the people who simply set the bar lower. Psychological processes that drive us are curious; sometimes they may make us redefine success so that we can appear more successful to other people. But this is not a real, healthy gain: it's a pathological one. A giant, impressive pile of counterfeit, useless money, if you will. Just my two cents. I'm most likely talking out of my ass :) By the way, kudos to you and everyone else for being a founder. It sounds like both a great struggle and a fun journey, and everyone with the courage (or the madness!) to go down that path has my deepest respect.
• daveslash 12y ago
  In San Diego. Like Utah poster, let me know if you'd like to grab food. I haven't been a founder until recently, but I've worked as an employee at three previous startups. I'm familiar with some of the feelings and would love to share my experiences if it helps others. Let me know - my twitter handle is on my HN profile.
• tossmeaway 12y ago
  Father died in final year of college. Only child moved home to mourning mother(of course!) Went on huge sarge to find a women. Did side work, but focused on 2nd startup(1st one in back of my mind to reboot.) Failed. Arrogant and never found a full time job. Was in love and my girl needed to marry to stay in country. She was fine I thought while i went after my dreams. Finally found my 3rd idea and was working on skills. Eventually wife lost faith and cheated(multiple times and not just sex on one, successful man.) Found out, blew my retirement(roth) I made working when I was younger on booze. Lost faith in myself, saw no point in my great idea, mother attacks, no real man to fend off. Sleep in a truck, brain so fried from settling divorce and lack of self confidence or a dime. Idea still viable, even after all this time, timing might be right. "If you are going through hell, keep going."
  • tossmeaway 12y ago
    Why was I down voted for my open heart experiences for those who are struggling with their dreams?
    • logicallee 12y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but it doesn't read very coherently. Maybe give more information.
      • tossmeaway 12y ago
        I apologize for the mind dump. It all has been very painful so I stuck to succinct sentences. What more do you request?
    • gedrap 12y ago
      Thanks for opening up, I can relate to marriage-to-stay-together situation. I honestly hope you are feeling better. I upvoted because I feel like more people should see it. >>> Why was I down voted Don't worry, probably just some kiddo from reddit :)
      • 12y ago
• njloof 12y ago
  My first thought on reading this: "Great, but who shouldn't I talk to?" I've known founders whose VCs took their "down" moments as weakness. They "helped" them dilute to pave the way for future takeover. They exploited founders' weakness and talked about them behind their backs. Who can you really trust when you and your company are at their weakest?
  • gsibble 12y ago
    Thanks for bringing this up. Even worse is trying to raise a round of funding when you can barely raise yourself out of bed in the morning. VC/Investors are probably the last people I would ever talk to about the low feelings during dark startup days.
  • XERQ 12y ago
    Great point, "mentors" and VCs are there to make an ROI. The best thing to have is a network of other founders you can meet, people who have no stake in your success or failure.
• gregorymichael 12y ago
  I'm a developer with bipolar disorder. I gave a about it last year at Business of Software called Developers, Entrepreneurs and Depression that some founders have found useful: http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/11/developers-entrepreneurs-depression-a-wonderful-talk-at-business-of-software-conference/ http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/11/developers-entrepreneu...
  • comrh 12y ago
    Same diagnosis. I struggle so much with wanting to help others and wanting not to tell anyone. Wanting to talk to my bosses so they can understand and wanting my privacy. Wanting not to use it as an excuse, or get special treatment but then being so angry when they don't get it (how could they?). Also struggling with starting something and the need to finish it the same night. That one hit hard. The anxiety while I work on something only goes away when I finish, so longer projects are impossible. To avoid the pain I just stop trying to work on them. I'm trying to get better with medication and a doctor and it is certainly better than constantly thinking about suicide but I worry that I'm never going to be productive. Thanks for so much for your talk. And having the courage to put such a big part of yourself out there to help others.
  • stefek99 12y ago
    I posted the very same link prior to reading all the comments. Good job!
• mindcrime 12y ago
  I can definitely relate to this. There are definitely times when it's hard to talk to anybody... and I don't know about you guys, but with some topics I actually find it harder to talk to someone I know, than, say, a random stranger at a bar. Luckily I have at least one or two friends, who, for whatever reason, I can talk to about "founder depression" issues more easily than other people. Strangely enough, it's not even that they're my closer friends, they're just people where the nature of the relationship feels "different" in some subtle way. I also find that being more frank, than is probably expected, on forums like this is somewhat cathartic. If you were to dig through my old posts (don't waste your time, it's not actually that interesting) you'll find my admitting to suicidal ideation, and talking openly about how I think I'd off myself in the "doomsday" scenario. I hope it never comes to that, and I doubt it will, but something about this almost pseudonymous forum leaves me feeling more comfortable about saying certain things. This is true even though my "real life" identity is clearly spelled out in my profile and is trivially easy to find. shrug Anyway, I'm no mental health expert, but if anybody just needs a friendly ear to listen to them vent, feel free to give me a shout. If you're in the RTP, NC area, I'm happy to meet for coffee/food/drinks or whatever. Email and contact info in profile.
  • Noxchi 12y ago
    >I can definitely relate to this. There are definitely times when it's hard to talk to anybody... and I don't know about you guys, but with some topics I actually find it harder to talk to someone I know, than, say, a random stranger at a bar. Luckily I have at least one or two friends, who, for whatever reason, I can talk to about "founder depression" issues more easily than other people. Strangely enough, it's not even that they're my closer friends, they're just people where the nature of the relationship feels "different" in some subtle way That's because you're trying to maintain / live up to a reputation you've set to people close to you. You believe that if you admit fault, they will love you / want you less. Where if you talk to people that aren't close, you have no reputation to maintain and their love doesn't mean as much.
• derwiki 12y ago
  When I went solo-fulltime on my startup, I started a Mailchimp newsletter and asked all my friends who I thought cared about the startup to join (I'm just shy of 100 subscribers now). It's been incredibly useful for battling loneliness; every few weeks I talk about a success, a failure, or maybe just something random. It's helped make the whole process less isolating; I always get personal replies after I send one.
• Patrick_Devine 12y ago
  I usually tell people it's "peaks and valleys". The peaks are really, really high, and the valleys are really, really low. But that's the whole point, isn't it? It's the ride that makes everything worth it.
• logicallee 12y ago
  You can't afford to follow this advice. Saying you're crushing it is part of your 24/7 job description. There is a story of the founder who had just put a round together with a VC. Then, privately, the founder confided to a mutual friend, over dinner, about some of the difficulties. Result? The friend told the VC, the VC pulled out, and cited this conversation, saying that it was because his mutual friend said the company was having difficulties. You can't afford to talk.
  • tempestn 12y ago
    Doesn't sound like much of a "friend". Honestly if you're facing depression you can't afford not to talk. But ideally you would find someone trustworthy to talk to.
    • logicallee 12y ago
      well okay but Sam's blog post makes it seem like it's almost a coincidence that everyone happens to talk all the time about crushing it. It's not. It's part of the job description. You have to learn to do it.
  • edmack 12y ago
    Bullshit. Your advice could literally kill people. There are always many many people you can and should talk to in confidence. Many examples have offered their email addresses above.
    • morgante 12y ago
      That's why you talk to a therapist who is legally bound to protect your doubts.
  • vasilipupkin 12y ago
    1) plural of anecdote is not data 2) that VC was probably looking for an excuse to pull out, would have pulled out anyway for some other bullshit reason
• deleted 12y ago
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• XERQ 12y ago
  I'm in Orange County running two startups with plenty of ups and downs. If you're in the area and want to grab a coffee and talk, my contact details are in my profile.
• yaelwrites 12y ago
  Glad to see this being discussed. Relevant: http://www.inc.com/magazine/201309/jessica-bruder/psychological-price-of-entrepreneurship.html http://www.inc.com/magazine/201309/jessica-bruder/psychologi...
• hkmurakami 12y ago
  While the situation is most acute for founders, I feel that the general situation is true for most if not all professionals with strong aspirations. You can't show weakness in public (web) for fear that a potential employer will flag you. You can't express your lament to many coworkers since it can come back to bite you. Non-founders generally aren't subjected to the kind of lows that founders are, and have more room for camaraderie and confidants. But no matter who we are, it seems that were need to put on an air of invulnerability, and this bothers me immensely. (And in general, I play the game as well)
• lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  I listened to a surprising podcast from John Lloyd (UK comedy producer deity (Spitting Image, BlackAdder etc)) He talked about his breakdown, about how he was fired from ten or so jobs and slowly came to a realisation that I think is worth repeating - that you can accept your life is yours, if possible live "with no fear and no blame" I certainly don't suggest his approach is perfect but I is interesting to see someone widely successful and respected talking about the same fears and depression pervasive within us. Look for Seun Hughes / John Lloyd on iTunes
• yslhall 12y ago
  I wish I could explain what I'm going through right now, as a founder, but I legally can't. The few people that know what I'm going through have said it's the hardest situation they've heard a startup founder in, ever. I hope to one day tell my story. Let's just say, it involves dealing with somebody that developed severe mental illness, quickly.
  • danelectro 12y ago
    start writing your story down now, and then reveal it later when appropriate
• EvanMiller 12y ago
  Dig deeper, Sam. Achievement-oriented people are given to depression both when they fail and when they succeed. If your identity is tied up in your work, then you feel bad about yourself when work isn't going well. That's obvious, and that's the message of this blog post. The implicit message is that you're depressed because you're not succeeding, so get your shit together and succeed and be happy like everyone else. But then if you do succeed, you start to wonder, why did I just spend my youth in this masochistic, narcissistic path, and why the fuck am I not as happy as I was expecting, and is this really all there is in life. This is a classic "achiever in crisis." The problem is that you realize all along you've been doing things that OTHER people wanted -- that is, you've been doing things that make you valuable in society -- perfect summed up in the raison d'etre du jour, "making the world a better place." And nobody stopped you, because who can argue with making the world a better place? (Or being a doctor, or whatever.) But upon reflection, you quickly realize that this was in many ways easier than asking yourself what YOU wanted out of life. I.e. you've pushed aside your innate feelings and desires, whatever they may have been, and replaced them with the external motivation of achievement, under the rationale that you'd be able to "figure it out" after you had "made it". Unfortunately achievers aren't really sure what they want "deep down" because achievement is inherently defined by society, and then after they've "made it" they freak out because they start to wonder if there even is a "deep down" or if they're just a highly educated donkey chasing a carrot. If you talk to e.g. people who've gone through rigorous Ph.D. programs, you'll find a number of them were severely depressed after their defense. It was just kind of a let-down after such a long buildup, and then they started to wonder why they invested the entirety of their twenties into it and question whether that's really what they wanted their life to be. At least before the defense they could have something look forward to, and the various requirements provided a source of manic energy to propel the achiever forward. Anyway I don't think the problem here is "not enough success," and I don't think the solution is having more coffee meetings. Founders need to take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves why they're doing what they're doing and whether their depression is truly a function of their free cash flow or if there's a deeper dissonance between the founder's feelings and the expectations of society, i.e. the heroic mythology of the founder that Silicon Valley has been inculcating in susceptible teenagers for the last 20 years. Just my 2c. I am not a founder just an observer and aspiring societal psychiatrist. If you want to learn more I highly recommend "The Wisdom of the Enneagram": http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Enneagram-Psychological-Spiritual-Personality/dp/0553378201 http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Enneagram-Psychological-Spiritu... It looks a lot like astrological pseudoscientific trash but read it and see if things in it resonate with you. Ok back to work.
• deleted 12y ago
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• mclenithan 12y ago
  I worked up the restaurant industry, opened my first restaurant in 2007. Second in 2009. In 2009 I was 24. Leased the first location, bought the second for about $2 mil, ($100k down)... Economy took a crap, road work, city restrictions, fking Denny's decided to open right next to my first location. I closed in 2010. Sole-Proprietor. Combine taxes, bills, loans, etc.. I was looking at around 1.5 mil in debt. I had $400 about at the time. The newspaper had me front page for closing, social media blew up, everyone wants to know wtf happened. I made ALOT of mistakes, not saying I am a complete victim but it hurts... REAL bad. So I ran and hid. Couldn't own a bank account, had to move. All those "friends" ain't friends we you are in the gutter. Worked random jobs just to eat and pay rent on a shared room in a new town. Decided to code because it looked better than my bartending/sales jobs. Learned code and now in the industry. Its fun to hear people get VC help, a co-founder, community support, nothing really on the line but other peoples money and time. Not saying that it's everyone or even the OP, but things could be sooooo much harder when falling from grace. When you get on your knees in front of all your staff and beg the power company rep not to shut off the lights, you are pretty close to that wonderful feeling. "Run it till the wheels fall off.."
• deleted 12y ago
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• paul9290 12y ago
  As they say start ups are a roller coaster ride. All the lows are worth it for the highs, because the alternative is working n wasting ur life away at a desk job. Which after experiencing many highs sitting at that desk makes you hate it and for me I only keep jobs for a year because of my incessant need to start up. Needless to say I don't lead the normal societal life as I have sacrificed such for my startups/dreams. But oh the lows(depression) and instability... Like today because of my startup addiction it's time to find a new desk job. This stuff is crazy HARD, but I can't stop!
• stefek99 12y ago
  Recommended talk: http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/11/developers-entrepreneurs-depression-a-wonderful-talk-at-business-of-software-conference/ http://businessofsoftware.org/2013/11/developers-entrepreneu... Seek specialist advice. I personally try to limit success stories and get back to work :)
• mkempe 12y ago
  If you need help with depression and would rather try to figure it out yourself, consider Julian Simon's "Good Mood: The New Psychology of Overcoming Depression". Some of it didn't make sense to me, but I know much of it has helped me and a few depressed friends. [1] http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Good_Mood/ http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Good_Mood/
• robg 12y ago
  The latest brain research is showing two powerful trends worth talking about in any conversation among friends and advisers: 1) The key role of sleep appears to be flushing toxins from the brain: http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2013/10/sleep-ultimate-brainwasher http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2013/10/sleep-ulti... 2) Sleep disorders appear to precede mental health concerns, including anxiety and depression: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/health/conditions/sleep-apnea-depression/ http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/health/conditions/sleep-apnea-... http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/sleep-disorders http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/... Your brain is your performance and health computer. Please remember to take care of it.
• dennisgorelik 12y ago
  Happy people are less likely to start risky ventures.
  • crimsonalucard 12y ago
    True
• mikeleeorg 12y ago
  When I first became a manager at a large corporation, I often felt stressed out and alone. So a year into it, I created an informal "support group" of other new managers. We'd trade stories, tips, and beers. This was nowhere near the pressure of founding a company, but I took that experience and created an informal support group of founders amongst my colleagues too. It didn't last unfortunately, but I later got into an accelerator and found the same support group. No matter what the cause of your stress or depression, having a good support system is extremely helpful. It ranges from Mommy/Daddy groups to AA to even a single good friend. Unfortunately for many people, it's very difficult to find and/or build a support system. P.S. I vaguely recall seeing an organization (maybe a startup) listed on HN that basically helped people find someone to talk to. Anyone remember the name?
  • _sentient 12y ago
    I believe http://7cupsoftea.com http://7cupsoftea.com may be what you're looking for.
• 5943d536-f360 12y ago
  I wanted to chime in here to whine about my founder problems (loneliness, destruction of personal relationships, total chaos in one's life, no time for oneself etc) and I realized that I can't even anonymously talk about this without feeling like a spoiled entitled brat. I feel that no matter how much I lose to this absurd path I've forced myself into, I still have no right to complain about it, otherwise I'm obviously not "founder material". I think to myself "Well, I've certainly turned my life into a clusterfuck, but at least I'm not like some of these guys who went bankrupt, couldn't afford medical for their children or who died from overworking. Can't really complain, right?" I guess I find it very hard to whine about my struggles and all the fuck-ups when it's self-imposed martyrdom. Nobody asked me to quit my cushy 6 figures 9 to 5. I was miserable at it, but doesn't mean I needed to do a startup instead.
• wting 12y ago
  > If you ask a founder how her startup is going, the answer is almost always some version of “Great!” This is not founder-specific but a fairly typical American greeting. "How's it going?" "Pretty good, you?" "Not too bad, how 'bout the weather / sports team?" By comparison, the next time someone initiates the standard greeting try responding with something out of the ordinary. "I'm having a difficult time with foo" or "My wife and I just did this". Breaking the pattern will result in a lot more meaningful conversations.
  • nlh 12y ago
    I think there's two different things going on here. What you talk about is very much real -- the standard "how's it going?" or "how are you?" American question/response ("Good! You?"). Answering that sort of question in the way you suggest is a fairly non-American thing. But I think there is also a more specific founder/startup conversation that Sam refers to -- that's more like this: Q: "Hey, how are you?" A: "Good! You?" Q: "I'm good. So how are things with the company? How are you guys doing?" That's where the typical "Oh we're killing it!" is coming in and where it might be nice for some to be a bit more honest. "We're trying. It's a struggle." You can also learn a lot about the person you're talking to by seeing how they respond to this. The good ones are the ones who respond with empathy and who want to listen.
  • RRiccio 12y ago
    The enthusiastic "GREAT!" responses were something I had to adapt to while in the US. In LatAm/Europe, even when great things have happened, the standard answer is "The company is ok, how about yours?" -- boasting about your successes isn't socially accepted.
• mrev19 12y ago
  Try dedicating your life to music its freakin brutal. Write some songs and go sing em in a public forum, thats some serious vulnerability. Not saying its tougher than being a founder, but no way the opposite is true. Anyway my point is that these days many people who are attracted to being founders tend to be shocked by the costs because they don't have the natural temperament to sharply veer from the path of established norms. Many don't believe in something greater than themselves or money which would allow them to suffer the pain as a cost of doing business. This is a given in the arts. Its like the marines, pain is part of the practice.
• jonathanehrlich 12y ago
  amen. Glad you put this out there.
• _Zach 12y ago
  if you can't handle it, get out of the way for those who can. Resign and let the men run things.
• arnonejoe 12y ago
  Dear Sam, It's interesting to hear you speak about founder depression as you sit on top of the world. Our team, openhospital.com, interviewed at YCombinator 6 weeks ago for the current batch and we failed (rejection email below). The $1100 interview reimbursement we received from YC only covered 1/3 of the cost of the trip and the time/energy spent applying could have been time and money spent coding and developing our product (and paying rent). In the last 7 months I've managed to burn through my 401k from years software engineering jobs in pursuit building a cash medicine marketplace. I barely have enough money to pay my rent next month. In a desperate attempt to find capital, I also charged a trip to San Jose on my credit card 2 weeks ago to knock on doors up and down Sand Hill Road. If you or anyone on this forum is interested in starting a cash medicine marketplace there is an opportunity to change the world and this needs to be done. Ironically my wife has horrible stomach problems and I spent two hours calling GI/colonoscopy doctors trying to find a cash price as I will be charging this on my credit cards as well. I am desperate to start this and I don't care if I end up with 1/10000th of founder ownership at the end. We have a working provider site with several providers (18k lines of code). The other engineer on my team is smart (Stanford educated) and an awesome co-founder to work with. Am I depressed? Yes. Am I giving up? Never. My contact info is joe (at) openhospital.com if you Sam or anyone on this forum would like to chat. Joe Arnone Founder OpenHospital.com https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0jz58wmd8ynsup/Photo%20Apr%2026%2C%206%2002%2038%20PM.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0jz58wmd8ynsup/Photo%20Apr%2026%2...
  • dkural 12y ago
    You might have more success if you explain your business model a bit better. What pain point are you addressing? Who's the customer? How big is the market? How do you plan to introduce your innovation and induce behavior change in the current marketplace and insert yourself into the transaction? etc..
  • govindkabra31 12y ago
    I am not doing a startup, so take all these suggestions fwiw. 1. You website looks great. Looks like functionality is not fully done though? I was clicking on "Book Now" but it didnt do anything. Maybe it was because I did not sign in. Maybe make that clear in error box. 2. YC keeps repeating the advice to do things that do not scale; focus on week at a time. Your vision is ambitious-- which is great, but on execution, scale down to bare minimum. e.g., 2a) Website is designed for search anywhere, but drop down is only for Phoenix. It is totally fine to focus on Phoenix only initially. In fact, go more aggressive, remove that screen altogether, make it clear that this is only for Phoenix. In fact remove the search form too. Directly list the 8 results you have on the page. 2b) The result page has airbnb like feeling.. but you have only 8 listing so far. Can you make that result page more catchy, remove the need to click through into each listing. Design it more like Pinterest, large picture, title, brief description, and book now link, all in that page. No need to click through to detail page. FWIW, airbnb in its early days went to each one of their hosts home, took pictures, and edited descriptions manually. Totally worth it. 2c) Why ask for account? You need that only for repeat users.. for one time bookings, just give them a form with email/phone, etc. fields. An account is a high barrier for intial adoption. Dont force it until you must. PG hated even a service like quora for a long time, because it forced an account creation. 3) Who is your target user? Initially, you do not need internet to promote this type of service. Do something old-school, like physical banners, with a phone number. People will call you, and you tell them on phone which doctors are available for what price. And do the booking on phone. Put your fliers in walgreens/cvs (dont worry about policy, you only need to convince the store manager). Put flier infront of walmart or wholefoods or target-- depending on demographic of your intial users. 4) Dont beat yourself for not getting into YC. They have two goals-- a) do good in the world, and b) make money. I can see you are early enough that signal is not clear for making money aspect. Fix that-- show some intial traction by doing things that do not scale. 5) Their feedback email tells you clearly that the issue is founders have varying commitments. Fix that. You do not need four founders-- two great ones, who are on board full time or with significant commitment in time or money-- is sufficient. Talk with them, ask them to leave if they are not on board fully. It is even fine to do this alone-- you are passionate enough, and you will have no excuse then. 6) If you need help with programming, I can offer some of my free time. Tweet me: @kabragovind
• zeeshanm 12y ago
  Lots of interesting comments here. I'll put some thoughts here, too... I have always thought there are two kinds of people in this world. One who do things that make other people's life better. Others who reap benefits of things done by the former group. To me the question is about whether you want to be selfless in the service of others or live a steady life. Once you have figured out, there is no shame in failing if your goals are high and intentions are right. If you base your success based on how people perceive you that is a very wrong way to think. The only reason because public opinion tends to change very so often. So, for me at least, being successful implies reaching for a bigger goal than the self. Being principled and finding happiness in doing the right thing. Just imagine if Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, Dr King, etc would have only thought for themselves what kind of a messed up world we all would have been living in? With greater goals come even greater challenges in some shape or form of "failures." "If There Is No Struggle, There Is No Progress”
  • gfodor 12y ago
    Feeling the need to constantly be trying to improve the world and help others is a noble concept but also one that, if focused on too intensely, can unintentionally lead you down a dark path. By setting unrealistic expectations for yourself you can often set yourself up for failure by reaching too far too early. It also puts a heavy burden on your shoulders of being your own worst critic, undermining your motivation and clashing with your basic human desires that fall out of natural selfishness. As PG said in "Good and Bad Procrastination": "You can't look a big problem too directly in the eye. You have to approach it somewhat obliquely. But you have to adjust the angle just right: you have to be facing the big problem directly enough that you catch some of the excitement radiating from it, but not so much that it paralyzes you. You can tighten the angle once you get going, just as a sailboat can sail closer to the wind once it gets underway." I think the effects of trying to tackle big problems in the name of helping others head on can go beyond paralysis and into poor judgement in both strategy and tactics. The best way to change the world in my view is to first, know thyself, and then point yourself in the general direction you want to go. From there, let your passions lead you where they may but be conscious if you are straying too far from the direction you were headed. Also, it seems more important to know if you've certainly begun heading in the wrong direction than knowing what exactly the right direction was from the outset.
• lsh123 12y ago
  Just remember that the failure of your startup/project does not mean that you are a failure. In the last years you most likely "merged" yourself with your startup, you need to keep reminding yourself that your are more than it. You have friends, family, other ideas. You always can try again. And yes, would be happy to have coffee/lunch/whatever to chat (I am in the Bay Area).
• holri 12y ago
  Greek philosopher Epiktet has the solution. From http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html: The Enchiridion By Epictetus Written 135 A.C.E. Translated by Elizabeth Carter 1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed. Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved. Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you. [...]
• krantiveer 12y ago
  Doing what you love is the key to happiness. This may not make you a billionaire but will certainly make you very happy. There is just too much pressure in wanting to be a billion dollar startup. If you take a VC's money as a means to your happiness, you will end up working for the VC's happiness and not yours.
• aosmith 12y ago
  Maybe I'm crazy but I'm a solo founder (I have a great support system of other founders) and I rarely find myself depressed. At times I'm angry at myself for decisions I've made but hindsight is 20:20.
• peachngrapes 12y ago
  At the beginning most founders getting some kind of depression but the better founders quickly adapt to the situation and answer 'some version of great' when asked how their startup is going. The reason is quite simple -- successful founders are always positive because every event which happens has some positive impact in their perception, even if it might feel as a failure. Successful founders don't use the word failure, nothing is a failure to them. People who are depressed -- it doesn't matter if those are founders or not -- tend to let external circumstances determine the mood or happyness level. Most people are happy when it's good weather and sad if it is raining, successful people do not let something like rain influence their mood level. The question is rather why the topic 'depression' pops up quite often on HN. My theory: I had very successful times as a founder and also -- let's call them -- 'slow' times as a founder, in particular in the beginning. When I had successful times I didn't check HN for months a single time, when I had 'slow' times, I checked HN every 30 minutes. -
• ibisum 12y ago
  On the flipside of this is the fact that, as a founder, you are a clear target for subconscious repression by everyone, thanks to the tall poppy syndrome. So, many times, discussing the issues and problems with others is precisely what you shouldn't do, because you will trigger the syndrome. Its very important, thus, to have established trust with your support network before you go into the founder seat. If you don't have a support network that consciously navigates around such things as TPS and mobbing-mentality, then you're going to be in for a hard time. The fact of the matter is that humans are subconsciously hard-wired to dissent against organizational structures requiring hard work and honest production, and a founder getting up there on the hill and attempting to work hard and produce new things needs to understand that the most difficult thing about organizing humans, is humans. Disclaimer: founder who just went through all of the above, and still working hard to survive in spite of it all.
• raminassemi 12y ago
  I thought this was a really good talk (and associated thread with it) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4357037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4357037 on entrepreneurial depression and happiness.
• Sakes 12y ago
  For me, startup depression was just something to get familiar with. I've been working on mine for about 3 years now, bootstrapped... on the weekends... making no money.... while supporting a family... being an involved father... but fuck it, I still believe in it and will continue working on it until I believe that the opportunity has passed. The first two years consisted of my mind bouncing back and forth between dreams and depression. Now I've matured, at least emotionally, to where I feel emotionally invincible. I guess I just got used to it, the uncertainty, the hopes, the fears. This has become my norm, and living with it is much easier and honestly pretty effortless at this point.
• hello_some 12y ago
  Maybe you just need a more engaging project?
• digita88 12y ago
  For founders, it is a good idea to scope which socio-economic-environmental factors would contribute to their dissonance or depression. For me it's the lack of face-to-face contact, being an 'outlier' in so many respects, being in an environment that is not as innovative or open to entrepreneurs and so on. The list is not that encouraging but as long as the factors are known at least they are 'known'. Also these factors can easily contribute to freelancers, independent workers, etc. The next item to know is that there are factors that would actively contribute to depression. I used to have some really bad habits that would otherwise feed into some sort of circle of depression and these would pop up when I am triggered. These habits formed because of thought patterns that I have somewhat developed growing up. Whenever I feel the triggers, I need to make sure that I don't engage in any of these bad habits or that if I do, I need to try and get out of that zone. I've had my first episode when I was really young - culminated in a few sessions with a psychologist at school - so I've had this affliction for a while now. On top of that, I've been entrepreneurial since I was young so I think that the external 'being a founder' is hard to separate from the biology. It's a bit of a circle for me - I get in founder phases and then when the business or idea fizzles out or when I need the cash, I get into employee phase which then culminates in me wanting to get my feet back into the entrepreneur game... and so on and so forth. At the moment I'm in that founder phase and have made commitments and arrangements so that I don't get back into being an employee for at least January 2015.