7 ms·

When Life Gives You Lemons

307 points by maibaum 12y ago

applecore 12y ago
> Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly. Wow.
- IvyMike 12y ago
  To me, this is the wow part: > After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. The Tesla sure logs a lot of things.
  - XorNot 12y ago
    They seem to have been right to, given the number of times people have setup to knock them down.
  - sologoub 12y ago
    Yeah, in this specific case, it seems somewhat justified, but I'm really not sure how I feel about a car that logs that much. Even though I use web apps that can log everything including mouse movement, something about such logging in the physical world still puts me off big time...
    - BHSPitMonkey 12y ago
      Would you feel better about an option that let you disable internal logging on the condition that your service/maintenance costs were raised substantially? The purpose seems to be to make diagnostic work easier, after all.
      - Balgair 12y ago
        My Dad is a mechanic and I can tell you this would be a god-send for troubleshooting. However, as a private person, I have a lot of trouble with other people knowing my habits and who I visit when and where. Docs and Dentists take an oath not to tell for a reason. Mechanics and engineers do not. Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything.
        onaclov2000 12y ago
        I don't know what they specifically log, but if they don't log car location, I'm not sure what "value" from a personal privacy standpoint, they would gain in knowing you open your doors 3 times before sitting down. Other than that you're OCD I guess :S. If they track location, then that changes my entire opinion. That's a trickier subject to handle.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Well, the timing of opening/closing of doors might be able to give you a radius from work to home. But since most repair shops know this to bill you, thats mute. If it logged when, then they would know your routine, but they could guess that anyways. Yeah, it's a bit paranoid, and logging it is less harmful than real time updating and tracking. Still, some of the guys that my dad worked with would not by ANY means be considered trustworthy people.
        emiliobumachar 12y ago
        "Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything." I think BHSPitMonkey meant that if they didn't log in general, maintenance costs would be higher and the costumers would pay for it in one way or another.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Good point actually. They would be higher one way or another. Labor is the major expense in repair and it is billed by the hour. Hmmmm....
      - dsr_ 12y ago
        I would feel better about an option that encrypted all internal logging, and left me in charge of the key, so that I could give read-only access to the service technician, and then revoke it after the car was good. But that's hard to do in a consumer UI.
        Crito 12y ago
        Put the key in the actual key (or key fob, in the case of Tesla). Service technicians could use a "valet+" key that would get them access to everything except those protected logs, or read only access to the logs. If the customer were so inclined, they could volunteer the key+key to the technicians. The key+key would be tamper resistant so that revoking credentials after getting your car serviced would be less necessary; just make sure they give you that key back.
    - mathrawka 12y ago
      Your phone is capable of logging a lot more than your car would. Most people keep their phone in their nearly all day, even when they are supposed to be in the privacy of their bathroom.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      It is a surprise that people accept such extensive logging. I hope Tesla is keeping the information safe (does the information leave the car? Or is it only accessed by technicians working on the car?) I remember when people would be very angry about software that "phoned home".
      - Peroni 12y ago
        Assuming they don't track your physical location, what's the issue here? What element of interaction do you have with your vehicle that would give you cause for concern if it were tracked? How often and when doors are opened and closed? Average speed? Average distance travelled per trip? Power consumption? Physical interactions with mechanical and electrical components within the vehicle? In all honesty, I can't think of a single thing other than physical location that I would require privacy for when it comes to owning and operating the type of car Tesla produces.
        ForHackernews 12y ago
        "Our logs show the passenger door opening at 3:00 am on April 7, 2014, and the added weight is consistent with an adult female passenger. Wasn't that when your wife was away on business?"
    - ahuth 12y ago
      Also, your phone is potentially tracking your location right now. Maybe not yours, personally, but in general.
    - fudged71 12y ago
      Hardware analytics, folks. This is fairly new territory. Really interesting to see the reactions.
    - efuquen 12y ago
      I also feel like they could have deduced they needed to put the tape on the fuse without the logs. If they keep repeatedly fixing what seems like a problem that shouldn't be happening it would seem to make sense to take that precaution without having access to such logs.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Balgair 12y ago
    Wow is right. I do not like that at all. What I do in my car is my business, not Elon's.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      What this guy did in his car appears intended to fuck Elon's business, so I'd say that's debatable to some extent.
      - npizzolato 12y ago
        So track everything about everyone in the event one person brings a lawsuit against the company? I'm not sure I'm going to consent to that.
        pdonis 12y ago
        Then don't buy a Tesla.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Well, if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud. In fact, I'd bet most execs are looking to do just that. The tech can be used on all cars and it makes sense to use it on all cars. At least, from the shareholder's side. What then? Do I not get to own a car? A 'then move to another country' argument is shallow. As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
        pdonis 12y ago
        > if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud If that were true, GM and all the other manufacturers would already be doing it. The tech Tesla is using for this is not new. The main reason other car manufacturers don't do it is probably very simple: cost. You have to spend the money for the extra sensors in each vehicle, plus whatever hardware is storing the data and/or transmitting it to Tesla, plus you have to hire and train your own technicians to handle the data and interact with customers (other car manufacturers have their dealers do that, but dealers aren't interested in the kind of data Tesla is collecting). Another possible reason is that other car manufacturers don't have enough of a problem with lemon law suits to make it worth using this kind of tech on their cars. I'd be interested to see data on that if anyone has any. > What then? Do I not get to own a car? If it ever gets to the point where every single car manufacturer is doing this, then yes, that would be your only option if you absolutely refuse to deal with it. (Unless you wanted to start your own car company.) > As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything. But you don't have the right to force someone to sell you their product on your terms instead of theirs. Tesla is completely up front about what they are doing; buyers sign a long agreement that spells all this out, and if they don't like it, they are free not to buy. You could try challenging the agreement in court, but I'm not sure on what grounds you would do that.
  - brc 12y ago
    I think you'll find that most modern cars log a lot of things, and that it isn't something specific to Tesla. It is for diagnostics and warranty reasons that these occur, as well as quality control.
  - klawed 12y ago
    I'm surprised the removal of a fuse wouldn't be logged. Unless it's the fuse that powers the logger.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      The fuse removal gets logged as a fuse failure.
      - klawed 12y ago
        Of course. That makes perfect sense.
- jack-r-abbit 12y ago
  Could you elaborate on what is wowing you? I'm not sure what is so wowing about the tech putting some tape over the fuse. I'm curious what about that has you so interested. Your one word comment didn't really explain it. Edit: sorry my question offended so many people. I was just curious and did not want to assume the meaning of the "wow" since others seem to be put off by how much logging the car does. I wasn't sure what the parent comment was about. sorry.
  - BrandonMarc 12y ago
    "wow", I assume, in that it makes it clearly apparent the customer was sabotaging their own car, in order to cause trouble and bring the lawsuit. Especially given how this isn't the only lemon-lawsuit by this customer and this lawyer, in just the last few months.
choult 12y ago
Of course IANAL but doesn't this article run the risk of prejudicing any court proceedings?
- OafTobark 12y ago
  I don't know the answer to your question but I suspect Tesla is more concerned with the truth getting out and telling their side of the story than just the outcome of the case. Although to be fair, that is merely a guess and a personal opinion.
- ephemeralgomi 12y ago
  The ideal resolution for Tesla is for the guy to drop the suit. This is what they're trying to accomplish by laying their cards on the table. IANAL either, but I'm not sure what risk you're talking about - do you suspect this suit will go to a jury trial, and it will become difficult to find jurors that haven't read this press release?
- colinbartlett 12y ago
  I think you're confused because many companies choose not to comment on pending lawsuits. That doesn't mean they are legally forbidden from doing so. Tesla has every right to defend itself in the court of public opinion, though certainly if this goes to trial, the parties will seek jurors who haven't preformed an opinion based on public statements. IANAL.
- baddox 12y ago
  I'm not sure what you're implying. Is the car manufacturer not allowed to give their side of the story publicly when a lemon law claim is filed against them?
- gamblor956 12y ago
  It's perfectly fine to prejudice court proceedings that are not yet in progress (though less so for prosecutors attempting to do the same in criminal cases). It's not permissible to influence the deliberations of jurors, but that's a narrow scope--jurors aren't supposed to digest media related to the case while serving, so the parties can generally say or opine whatever they want during a case outside of the courtroom.
crashandburn4 12y ago
I always try and remove my preconceptions from a story when I'm reading it (I tend to be a fan of tesla and musk) and took care to read both the linked to article as well as tesla's version, but lots of things about this scream bullshit. I especially dislike the youtube video created by the lawyer[1], reminds me of the american political smear campaigns that are run. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-lemon-law/7439547/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-le...
- jevinskie 12y ago
  "...but we're blessed: this bitch ain't caught on fire.. yet" Err... does this lawyer want people to take him seriously? And right after that zinger he drives past a cardboard cutout of George Clooney.
  - vacri 12y ago
    By doing crazy things like this video, he pulls attention from a wider audience, giving his opponent more reason to settle early and shut him up.
- ansible 12y ago
  Yeah, I'm wondering why this video was created by the lawyer filing the lemon law suit against Tesla. I don't see why it was needed if they've got a legitimate case. You file the suit, lay out your evidence, and that's about it. How is this video supposed to help? Are we supposed to start a kickstarter for this guy to give him money to pursue the lawsuit?
  - jccooper 12y ago
    It's to encourage Tesla to settle so that he stops producing negative publicity. The presence of the videos perhaps gives you a hint about what the case is really about. And it's probably not about the car.
- thelastpizza 12y ago
  Wow...that guy is a jerk.
mikestew 12y ago
The only thing I can figure is that the customer is trying to drive a car around for a while, file a Lemon Law complaint, then get a buy-back? I say this because it appears that the fuse had been tampered with, and the same person filed a complaint against Volvo last year.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  No - the idea is not to get a buy back - if that had been the case, then they would have issued their three buy back requests, and, from what I've read, Tesla would have been more likely than other vendors to honor it. Instead, the objective is to appear to have a violation of the lemon law, and then file a lawsuit looking for compensatory/legal fee damages. Normally a company like Tesla will just pay off the nuisance suit in order to avoid having their good name dragged through the press, but, apparently, Elon Musk doesn't play that game, and with his posting, he is making it clear to all the other bottom feeders that he is more than willing to go head-to-head with them. Heh, "non-tamper" tape to the fuse switch indeed.
  - epynonymous 12y ago
    i bet tesla buys the car back at a used car price, otherwise we'd be talking about a refund.
Mz 12y ago
Yeah, this does not feel good to me. I get the PR angle but this feels not right to me. Wait until the trial is over and then give your side of things to handle the "court of public opinion" but this has potential legal ramifications and I don't think this is the right way to handle it. Maybe I am wrong but it doesn't look like the right way to me.
- gkoberger 12y ago
  The lawyer made a video that was very anti-Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&v=V4ALbVQwRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&... Should Tesla have to just sit back and wait, while their name is being (probably unfairly) dragged through the mud?
  - Mz 12y ago
    Just because I feel this response is not the right response does not mean I am suggesting they shouldn't respond at all. But some of the points they make and the way it is framed look pretty bad to me. I understand they feel defensive and unfairly attacked but there are better ways to handle things. Edit: I will add that when I worked for an insurance company, some of the letters I had to write had to be reviewed by the legal department. So I have firsthand experience with writing PC pieces that need to stand up in a court of law, notify the customer of important info, admit no wrong-doing, etc. This is not just someone talking out their butt.
    - pdonis 12y ago
      > some of the points they make and the way it is framed look pretty bad to me. I'm not sure I see why. I understand you're thinking about the legal ramifications, but reading between the lines of Tesla's blog post tells me two key things: (1) They have logs of everything that has happened to the car. That means they have evidence to back up every factual statement in their blog post. (2) They have records of all communications with the customer. That means they have evidence that shows that at least some of the factual claims made by the Lemon King lawyer (for example, the claim that three buyback requests were made prior to the lawsuit being filed) are false. In other words, they believe that everything they said in the blog post will stand up in a court of law, should it ever come to that. They're just willing to make an effort to not have it come to that. (If the Lemon King lawyer had half a brain, he'd be tripping over himself to get his client to withdraw the suit after reading this post. Somehow I doubt that will happen.)
nemesisj 12y ago
I really tend to struggle with Tesla whenever I read these kinds of things. On the one hand, I generally feel like they tend to shed light on areas where customers, the media, politicians, etc. are messing with them. On the other, something about the tactics they use seem...off. It's almost like they're bullying people who they don't like or disagree with. In this case, it seems like the guy and his lawyer are really just messing around and being dishonest, and it's a situation that Tesla can gain the upper hand on. But. What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now, and doesn't do things so perfectly or well at scale? I really wonder if this type of almost-militant napalm style PR will be handled so deftly. What happens when they get it wrong? I think there's sufficient evidence that they already kind of blew it with the journalist they went after previously, and it just seems like no good will come from this culture over time. So I'm conflicted. I love their products. I'm rooting for the company, but I do hate these kinds of whiny posts. Tesla is better than this, I hope.
- hosh 12y ago
  I don't know if this comes off as whiny to me, but I get what you're saying. There is a sort of defensiveness to posts like this. They do have something to prove, after all, though it easily come across as having a chip on the shoulder. It also reminds me of interaction of software companies with customers. Sometimes, engineers get fixated on measurable things that they failed to see things that are not measured. Customer satisfaction is not easily captured by metrics. I think it is fine the way it is now, and watch for when Tesla gets a lot bigger.
  - ztratar 12y ago
    This all feels like the necessities of politics. What I see here is likeley what enabled Musk to navigate the political arena with such ease -- he continually does the right thing but isn't scared to throw a jab in the opposite direction. When he applies the jab, he pushes it through with extreme force all while asking permission to stop and let the whole thing work it's course. At the same time he's playing other tactics that are lining his ducks up in a row. These are classic power moves, tried and tried again throughout history. It seems Tesla, SpaceX, and Elon himself have them nearly mastered. Very impressive, IMO, even though it feels odd.
m_mueller 12y ago
While this certainly reads like illicit usage, this blog entry leaves a sour taste with me. 1) Why even blogging about this? Is Tesla that insecure about its PR that they think they need to take the wind out of any possible negative news story, even if it will be easily defused? 2) Why start with their high grades in consumer reports? This is not a statistical sample, it's an individual case. Reads very defensive even though it clearly wouldn't be needed. After so many success stories I hope they become more confident in their public communications.
- joezydeco 12y ago
  Is this just how startups need to act in the social-media era when confronted with a story that could possibly go viral? A company like GM doesn't need to worry as much about a lemon-law claim - it's probably cheaper to just refund the money than pay lawyers.
  - ztratar 12y ago
    I'm personally glad they blogged about this. 1. It keeps me thinking about Tesla and gives them a chance to repeat the message of their reknowned customer service. 2. It's a warning shot to other lawyers or politicans drumming up anti-electric vehicle nonsense. Tesla won't play your game -- don't even try.
    - joezydeco 12y ago
      I'm just thinking they've tried to up their game after the whole NY Times headache.[1] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the...
- sjtrny 12y ago
  1) to scare off the lawyer and all future lawyers 2) to build a body of evidence against the lawyers claims To me this is very confident. It's a big gamble coming out like this. Someone who wasn't confident would have just settled and kept it quiet.
wurzelgogerer 12y ago
I love how tesla basically discloses who the plaintiff is, by referring to an old case of his. Hello there Robert Montgomery!
- unreal37 12y ago
  Seems like the lawyer and his client are trying to get some publicity from this. http://www.startribune.com/local/254186161.html http://www.startribune.com/local/254186161.html
3327 12y ago
Thank you HN for hosting another Tesla public service announcement.
- mschuster91 12y ago
  There are 29 other interesting stories on the frontpage, you're welcome to choose another :)
ulfw 12y ago
Aren't people starting to get tired of Tesla's constant defensiveness? I feel like we have one of those blog posts every week. Frankly Tesla has great products and doesn't need to act so defensive. Thoughts?
- r00fus 12y ago
  No. Their insight sheds light onto the struggles that a disruptor has to deal with in order to break through a heavily entrenched cartel (actually overlapping cartels). This is highly pertinent information for like-minded initiatives. Edit: for clarity
- marvin 12y ago
  They're addressing the issue of public perception. Electric vehicles are new, untried and untrusted. This means that there are two arenas where it is in Tesla's interest to have strong public support: Consumers, who do not want to buy cars which are rumored to be unreliable, and investors who don't want to extend credit to a company which is likely to have customers turn their back on it. Tesla has experienced multiple smear campaigns from different angles and motivations over its short history: Top Gear presenting the Roadster in an unfavorable and inorrect light, the New York Times lying about the car's performance in winter conditions, multiple news outlets overstating the fire risk of their li-ion battery packs. The fear of the public getting an incorrect picture of its reliability and safety record is very much grounded in reality.
- frandroid 12y ago
  In a world where media is uncritical and takes everyone's viewpoint with the same value, Tesla makes sure that they provide counterpoints to everything someone might want to stick on them, and more. That way, the reporting will always be half on Tesla's viewpoint, or more. Unless there's a dishonest journalist, or Tesla is fucking up and they're dealing with a journalist with critical thinking skills. Stonewalling, 'no comment'ing basically just gives the playing field to the other side. Also, at this point, countering bad publicity properly gives Tesla more media coverage. Not everyone knows Tesla outside of tech circles yet. What's unusual is that you're reading from a news source (HN) that features every small step Tesla takes. That's not the mainstream experience. :)
ef47d35620c1 12y ago
The truth stands on its own.
yock 12y ago
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-lemon-law/7439547/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-le... Milwaukee attorney Vince Megna also says that Tesla's policy of selling cars directly to consumers -- rather than having franchised dealers -- is another reason that it is tougher for customers to take action if they are dissatisified with their car. Ladies and Gentlemen, i give you the real reason for the lawsuit.
- jonlucc 12y ago
  Can you explain? To me, that line makes no sense. If he bought from a dealer, the dealer would have the same power that Tesla has in this case, right?
  - jonbwhite 12y ago
    I believe he is suggesting that this action is backed by dealers as part of the ongoing legal battle resulting from Tesla not allowing dealers to sell their cars.
  - yock 12y ago
    Tesla is facing opposition to their direct-sales practices in most states right now from the entrenched dealership lobby. It would be mighty useful to have on legal record that the lack of dealerships is materially significant to their ability to fulfill a portion of consumer protection law, whether it's true or not.
- ahuth 12y ago
  Nice catch. That is some of the worst logic I've ever seen.
- koenigdavidmj 12y ago
  They drive a loaner to your house and pick up your car. What more do you want?
- scrabble 12y ago
  Tesla officials, reached for comment, say they can't talk about pending court cases. From the same article, this line really stands out at me. Especially after reading what Tesla posted on their site.
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- aaron987 12y ago
  Not gonna lie dude. That's kinda creepy.
  - scott_karana 12y ago
    It's creepy, but I can understand the interest. After all, the "creep" keeps filing these seeming-illegitimate suits, and would know full well by now that his information is disclosed to the public via the court each time. Talk about blatant!
- daeken 12y ago
  1) I think it's highly inappropriate to post photos of someone's house on HN, even if they are possibly acting in a scummy way (who knows, maybe he just has bad luck with cars). 2) He may well be plenty happy with his house and dirt driveway; what does that have to do with the car he drives? Let's not turn this into a witch-hunt; facts win in the end.
- deleted 12y ago
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- jessaustin 12y ago
  1) Creepy. 2) Urban privilege much? The driveway pictured is surfaced with gravel, not "dirt". Most people who live in rural areas have a gravel driveway, if they can afford it. This surface is superior to dirt in that it doesn't get muddy when wet. It is superior to asphalt and concrete in that it is far cheaper and more environmentally benign.
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taiki 12y ago
Given just how bloody rich Elon Musk is, he should take the lemons, give them to his engineers to make combustable lemons AND BURN THEIR HOUSES DOWN. (or something.)
- LukeB_UK 12y ago
  Calm down Cave
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mankypro 12y ago
The cars these guys make are truly magnificent engineering pieces. Fairly sure the tooling is exceptional, so much so that the log files for the front hood told them all they needed to know :) bet that ambulance chaser didn't expect that. ROFLCOPTER.
chaired 12y ago
People are so conditioned by doublespeak PR, they get the icky feeling from plain talk.
mikemikemike 12y ago
If I were Tesla I would probably hire Buzzfeed or some other marketing channel to do a viral story highlighting how schmucky this lawyer and his client are. It would serve the brand better if they weren't seen giving these guys the time of day, let alone real estate on their corporate site.
aspensmonster 12y ago
As of starting to write this comment, there are more comments on this submission bickering about Tesla's PR than there are about the actual merit of the matter: * "Aren't people starting to get tired of Tesla's constant defensiveness?" * "something about the tactics they use seem... off." * "It's almost like they're bullying people they don't like..." * "But. What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now..." * "this blog entry leaves a sour taste with me." * "Yeah, this does not feel good to me. I get the PR angle but this feels not right to me." * "Thank you HN for hosting another Tesla public service announcement." I think the amount of flak Tesla gets on a constant basis from numerous entities that want to see Tesla dead more than justifies their aggressive public stance on these kinds of matters. The lawyer involved is apparently a self-proclaimed "Lemon Law King," which should raise a red flag all by itself. Litigious opportunism isn't usually celebrated by the HN crowd and I don't see why an exception should be made here. HN user yock has also pointed out that the lawyer involved in this suit is making a claim that the lack of franchised dealerships strengthens his justifications for opening a case, in that a lack of a dealerships for Tesla vehicles makes invoking Lemon Laws harder for consumers. Given Tesla's recent battles with states over having to sell their vehicles through middle men, I agree with yock's assessment that this is the real motivation for the suit --to add ammo to the case that Tesla must submit to the dealership franchise model-- rather than a genuine concern for a customer's rights under Lemon Laws to reverse a purchase of a vehicle. But if none of that is enough, there's these gems: >Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly. >After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. I'm all for stomping on double-speaking weasel-wording bullshit. It's not OK when the NSA does it, or the State Department does it, or anyone else does it. That goes for Tesla too. But for some reason it seems a good chunk of the readers here are stomping on what is absolutely the wrong target. Tesla is speaking truth to power and attempting to disrupt a dinosaur of a market that is pulling out all of the stops in a truly glorious effort to kill Tesla off. Could we all drop the pseudo-skepticism act and take note of the plain truth as it is?
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vimarshk 12y ago
It is my request to Tesla to set an example of this person by doing whatever possible so that the lawyer leaves his practice.
- danielweber 12y ago
  This will not happen.
S_A_P 12y ago
I think that while polarizing this is a smart move. This day in age the high road can get you screwed as public opinion can be swayed irreversibly in a matter of days. You have to take these sort of steps because 140 characters can cast you as evil before you realize it.
epynonymous 12y ago
this reminds me of the patent trolls, there's gold in dem damn litigations no matter how absurd, it's like searching for a loophole and exploiting.
anxman 12y ago
I'll step back and venture that Tesla customers are so happy with the customer service, that Tesla is able to call out bad actors. As a Tesla owner, I'll say that their customer service has gone way above and beyond any car company I've ever worked with. It's been a delightful experience.
darksim905 12y ago
A couple of things: * A lot of people say that Tesla is having a hard time because they aren't doing the whole dealership/franchise thing & wanting to sell to people directly. I feel like this is the fallout of something like that, the ease of someone going after them directly. * If you watch this 'lawyer' & his YouTube videos you can tell that he's going after these companies merely because of the "days" it's been in the shop/getting fixed & nitpicking about some issues that in all fairness, are probably fabricated. * Watched the video about the door handles, I find it hard to believe those don't work as designed but it is a possibility.
- takeda 12y ago
  The last time he touches and car handle opens, you see that tail light also blinked, just as if someone with the fob is standing off the camera and pressed the unlock button.
wfbarks 12y ago
Probably paid by the dealers to start a fire.
beedogs 12y ago
I'm guessing this suit will be dismissed with prejudice. Dude seems like a real lying scumbag with an axe to grind.

307 points by maibaum 12y ago

> Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly. Wow.

IvyMike 12y ago
To me, this is the wow part: > After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. The Tesla sure logs a lot of things.
- XorNot 12y ago
  They seem to have been right to, given the number of times people have setup to knock them down.
- sologoub 12y ago
  Yeah, in this specific case, it seems somewhat justified, but I'm really not sure how I feel about a car that logs that much. Even though I use web apps that can log everything including mouse movement, something about such logging in the physical world still puts me off big time...
  - BHSPitMonkey 12y ago
    Would you feel better about an option that let you disable internal logging on the condition that your service/maintenance costs were raised substantially? The purpose seems to be to make diagnostic work easier, after all.
    - Balgair 12y ago
      My Dad is a mechanic and I can tell you this would be a god-send for troubleshooting. However, as a private person, I have a lot of trouble with other people knowing my habits and who I visit when and where. Docs and Dentists take an oath not to tell for a reason. Mechanics and engineers do not. Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything.
      - onaclov2000 12y ago
        I don't know what they specifically log, but if they don't log car location, I'm not sure what "value" from a personal privacy standpoint, they would gain in knowing you open your doors 3 times before sitting down. Other than that you're OCD I guess :S. If they track location, then that changes my entire opinion. That's a trickier subject to handle.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Well, the timing of opening/closing of doors might be able to give you a radius from work to home. But since most repair shops know this to bill you, thats mute. If it logged when, then they would know your routine, but they could guess that anyways. Yeah, it's a bit paranoid, and logging it is less harmful than real time updating and tracking. Still, some of the guys that my dad worked with would not by ANY means be considered trustworthy people.
      - emiliobumachar 12y ago
        "Also, an increased price is not acceptable. The default should stay the same, the increased logging should come at a premium if anything." I think BHSPitMonkey meant that if they didn't log in general, maintenance costs would be higher and the costumers would pay for it in one way or another.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Good point actually. They would be higher one way or another. Labor is the major expense in repair and it is billed by the hour. Hmmmm....
    - dsr_ 12y ago
      I would feel better about an option that encrypted all internal logging, and left me in charge of the key, so that I could give read-only access to the service technician, and then revoke it after the car was good. But that's hard to do in a consumer UI.
      - Crito 12y ago
        Put the key in the actual key (or key fob, in the case of Tesla). Service technicians could use a "valet+" key that would get them access to everything except those protected logs, or read only access to the logs. If the customer were so inclined, they could volunteer the key+key to the technicians. The key+key would be tamper resistant so that revoking credentials after getting your car serviced would be less necessary; just make sure they give you that key back.
  - mathrawka 12y ago
    Your phone is capable of logging a lot more than your car would. Most people keep their phone in their nearly all day, even when they are supposed to be in the privacy of their bathroom.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    It is a surprise that people accept such extensive logging. I hope Tesla is keeping the information safe (does the information leave the car? Or is it only accessed by technicians working on the car?) I remember when people would be very angry about software that "phoned home".
    - Peroni 12y ago
      Assuming they don't track your physical location, what's the issue here? What element of interaction do you have with your vehicle that would give you cause for concern if it were tracked? How often and when doors are opened and closed? Average speed? Average distance travelled per trip? Power consumption? Physical interactions with mechanical and electrical components within the vehicle? In all honesty, I can't think of a single thing other than physical location that I would require privacy for when it comes to owning and operating the type of car Tesla produces.
      - ForHackernews 12y ago
        "Our logs show the passenger door opening at 3:00 am on April 7, 2014, and the added weight is consistent with an adult female passenger. Wasn't that when your wife was away on business?"
  - ahuth 12y ago
    Also, your phone is potentially tracking your location right now. Maybe not yours, personally, but in general.
  - fudged71 12y ago
    Hardware analytics, folks. This is fairly new territory. Really interesting to see the reactions.
  - efuquen 12y ago
    I also feel like they could have deduced they needed to put the tape on the fuse without the logs. If they keep repeatedly fixing what seems like a problem that shouldn't be happening it would seem to make sense to take that precaution without having access to such logs.
- deleted 12y ago
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- Balgair 12y ago
  Wow is right. I do not like that at all. What I do in my car is my business, not Elon's.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    What this guy did in his car appears intended to fuck Elon's business, so I'd say that's debatable to some extent.
    - npizzolato 12y ago
      So track everything about everyone in the event one person brings a lawsuit against the company? I'm not sure I'm going to consent to that.
      - pdonis 12y ago
        Then don't buy a Tesla.
        Balgair 12y ago
        Well, if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud. In fact, I'd bet most execs are looking to do just that. The tech can be used on all cars and it makes sense to use it on all cars. At least, from the shareholder's side. What then? Do I not get to own a car? A 'then move to another country' argument is shallow. As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything.
        pdonis 12y ago
        > if I were a GM exec, I'd try to get the same stuff on my cars to nip these things in the bud If that were true, GM and all the other manufacturers would already be doing it. The tech Tesla is using for this is not new. The main reason other car manufacturers don't do it is probably very simple: cost. You have to spend the money for the extra sensors in each vehicle, plus whatever hardware is storing the data and/or transmitting it to Tesla, plus you have to hire and train your own technicians to handle the data and interact with customers (other car manufacturers have their dealers do that, but dealers aren't interested in the kind of data Tesla is collecting). Another possible reason is that other car manufacturers don't have enough of a problem with lemon law suits to make it worth using this kind of tech on their cars. I'd be interested to see data on that if anyone has any. > What then? Do I not get to own a car? If it ever gets to the point where every single car manufacturer is doing this, then yes, that would be your only option if you absolutely refuse to deal with it. (Unless you wanted to start your own car company.) > As consumers, we still have rights after we buy anything. But you don't have the right to force someone to sell you their product on your terms instead of theirs. Tesla is completely up front about what they are doing; buyers sign a long agreement that spells all this out, and if they don't like it, they are free not to buy. You could try challenging the agreement in court, but I'm not sure on what grounds you would do that.
- brc 12y ago
  I think you'll find that most modern cars log a lot of things, and that it isn't something specific to Tesla. It is for diagnostics and warranty reasons that these occur, as well as quality control.
- klawed 12y ago
  I'm surprised the removal of a fuse wouldn't be logged. Unless it's the fuse that powers the logger.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    The fuse removal gets logged as a fuse failure.
    - klawed 12y ago
      Of course. That makes perfect sense.
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
Could you elaborate on what is wowing you? I'm not sure what is so wowing about the tech putting some tape over the fuse. I'm curious what about that has you so interested. Your one word comment didn't really explain it. Edit: sorry my question offended so many people. I was just curious and did not want to assume the meaning of the "wow" since others seem to be put off by how much logging the car does. I wasn't sure what the parent comment was about. sorry.
- BrandonMarc 12y ago
  "wow", I assume, in that it makes it clearly apparent the customer was sabotaging their own car, in order to cause trouble and bring the lawsuit. Especially given how this isn't the only lemon-lawsuit by this customer and this lawyer, in just the last few months.

choult 12y ago

Of course IANAL but doesn't this article run the risk of prejudicing any court proceedings?

OafTobark 12y ago
I don't know the answer to your question but I suspect Tesla is more concerned with the truth getting out and telling their side of the story than just the outcome of the case. Although to be fair, that is merely a guess and a personal opinion.
ephemeralgomi 12y ago
The ideal resolution for Tesla is for the guy to drop the suit. This is what they're trying to accomplish by laying their cards on the table. IANAL either, but I'm not sure what risk you're talking about - do you suspect this suit will go to a jury trial, and it will become difficult to find jurors that haven't read this press release?
colinbartlett 12y ago
I think you're confused because many companies choose not to comment on pending lawsuits. That doesn't mean they are legally forbidden from doing so. Tesla has every right to defend itself in the court of public opinion, though certainly if this goes to trial, the parties will seek jurors who haven't preformed an opinion based on public statements. IANAL.
baddox 12y ago
I'm not sure what you're implying. Is the car manufacturer not allowed to give their side of the story publicly when a lemon law claim is filed against them?
gamblor956 12y ago
It's perfectly fine to prejudice court proceedings that are not yet in progress (though less so for prosecutors attempting to do the same in criminal cases). It's not permissible to influence the deliberations of jurors, but that's a narrow scope--jurors aren't supposed to digest media related to the case while serving, so the parties can generally say or opine whatever they want during a case outside of the courtroom.

crashandburn4 12y ago

I always try and remove my preconceptions from a story when I'm reading it (I tend to be a fan of tesla and musk) and took care to read both the linked to article as well as tesla's version, but lots of things about this scream bullshit. I especially dislike the youtube video created by the lawyer[1], reminds me of the american political smear campaigns that are run. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-lemon-law/7439547/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-le...

jevinskie 12y ago
"...but we're blessed: this bitch ain't caught on fire.. yet" Err... does this lawyer want people to take him seriously? And right after that zinger he drives past a cardboard cutout of George Clooney.
- vacri 12y ago
  By doing crazy things like this video, he pulls attention from a wider audience, giving his opponent more reason to settle early and shut him up.
ansible 12y ago
Yeah, I'm wondering why this video was created by the lawyer filing the lemon law suit against Tesla. I don't see why it was needed if they've got a legitimate case. You file the suit, lay out your evidence, and that's about it. How is this video supposed to help? Are we supposed to start a kickstarter for this guy to give him money to pursue the lawsuit?
- jccooper 12y ago
  It's to encourage Tesla to settle so that he stops producing negative publicity. The presence of the videos perhaps gives you a hint about what the case is really about. And it's probably not about the car.
thelastpizza 12y ago
Wow...that guy is a jerk.

mikestew 12y ago

The only thing I can figure is that the customer is trying to drive a car around for a while, file a Lemon Law complaint, then get a buy-back? I say this because it appears that the fuse had been tampered with, and the same person filed a complaint against Volvo last year.

ghshephard 12y ago
No - the idea is not to get a buy back - if that had been the case, then they would have issued their three buy back requests, and, from what I've read, Tesla would have been more likely than other vendors to honor it. Instead, the objective is to appear to have a violation of the lemon law, and then file a lawsuit looking for compensatory/legal fee damages. Normally a company like Tesla will just pay off the nuisance suit in order to avoid having their good name dragged through the press, but, apparently, Elon Musk doesn't play that game, and with his posting, he is making it clear to all the other bottom feeders that he is more than willing to go head-to-head with them. Heh, "non-tamper" tape to the fuse switch indeed.
- epynonymous 12y ago
  i bet tesla buys the car back at a used car price, otherwise we'd be talking about a refund.

Mz 12y ago

Yeah, this does not feel good to me. I get the PR angle but this feels not right to me. Wait until the trial is over and then give your side of things to handle the "court of public opinion" but this has potential legal ramifications and I don't think this is the right way to handle it. Maybe I am wrong but it doesn't look like the right way to me.

gkoberger 12y ago
The lawyer made a video that was very anti-Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&v=V4ALbVQwRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&... Should Tesla have to just sit back and wait, while their name is being (probably unfairly) dragged through the mud?
- Mz 12y ago
  Just because I feel this response is not the right response does not mean I am suggesting they shouldn't respond at all. But some of the points they make and the way it is framed look pretty bad to me. I understand they feel defensive and unfairly attacked but there are better ways to handle things. Edit: I will add that when I worked for an insurance company, some of the letters I had to write had to be reviewed by the legal department. So I have firsthand experience with writing PC pieces that need to stand up in a court of law, notify the customer of important info, admit no wrong-doing, etc. This is not just someone talking out their butt.
  - pdonis 12y ago
    > some of the points they make and the way it is framed look pretty bad to me. I'm not sure I see why. I understand you're thinking about the legal ramifications, but reading between the lines of Tesla's blog post tells me two key things: (1) They have logs of everything that has happened to the car. That means they have evidence to back up every factual statement in their blog post. (2) They have records of all communications with the customer. That means they have evidence that shows that at least some of the factual claims made by the Lemon King lawyer (for example, the claim that three buyback requests were made prior to the lawsuit being filed) are false. In other words, they believe that everything they said in the blog post will stand up in a court of law, should it ever come to that. They're just willing to make an effort to not have it come to that. (If the Lemon King lawyer had half a brain, he'd be tripping over himself to get his client to withdraw the suit after reading this post. Somehow I doubt that will happen.)

nemesisj 12y ago

I really tend to struggle with Tesla whenever I read these kinds of things. On the one hand, I generally feel like they tend to shed light on areas where customers, the media, politicians, etc. are messing with them. On the other, something about the tactics they use seem...off. It's almost like they're bullying people who they don't like or disagree with. In this case, it seems like the guy and his lawyer are really just messing around and being dishonest, and it's a situation that Tesla can gain the upper hand on. But. What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now, and doesn't do things so perfectly or well at scale? I really wonder if this type of almost-militant napalm style PR will be handled so deftly. What happens when they get it wrong? I think there's sufficient evidence that they already kind of blew it with the journalist they went after previously, and it just seems like no good will come from this culture over time. So I'm conflicted. I love their products. I'm rooting for the company, but I do hate these kinds of whiny posts. Tesla is better than this, I hope.

hosh 12y ago
I don't know if this comes off as whiny to me, but I get what you're saying. There is a sort of defensiveness to posts like this. They do have something to prove, after all, though it easily come across as having a chip on the shoulder. It also reminds me of interaction of software companies with customers. Sometimes, engineers get fixated on measurable things that they failed to see things that are not measured. Customer satisfaction is not easily captured by metrics. I think it is fine the way it is now, and watch for when Tesla gets a lot bigger.
- ztratar 12y ago
  This all feels like the necessities of politics. What I see here is likeley what enabled Musk to navigate the political arena with such ease -- he continually does the right thing but isn't scared to throw a jab in the opposite direction. When he applies the jab, he pushes it through with extreme force all while asking permission to stop and let the whole thing work it's course. At the same time he's playing other tactics that are lining his ducks up in a row. These are classic power moves, tried and tried again throughout history. It seems Tesla, SpaceX, and Elon himself have them nearly mastered. Very impressive, IMO, even though it feels odd.

m_mueller 12y ago

While this certainly reads like illicit usage, this blog entry leaves a sour taste with me. 1) Why even blogging about this? Is Tesla that insecure about its PR that they think they need to take the wind out of any possible negative news story, even if it will be easily defused? 2) Why start with their high grades in consumer reports? This is not a statistical sample, it's an individual case. Reads very defensive even though it clearly wouldn't be needed. After so many success stories I hope they become more confident in their public communications.

joezydeco 12y ago
Is this just how startups need to act in the social-media era when confronted with a story that could possibly go viral? A company like GM doesn't need to worry as much about a lemon-law claim - it's probably cheaper to just refund the money than pay lawyers.
- ztratar 12y ago
  I'm personally glad they blogged about this. 1. It keeps me thinking about Tesla and gives them a chance to repeat the message of their reknowned customer service. 2. It's a warning shot to other lawyers or politicans drumming up anti-electric vehicle nonsense. Tesla won't play your game -- don't even try.
  - joezydeco 12y ago
    I'm just thinking they've tried to up their game after the whole NY Times headache.[1] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the...
sjtrny 12y ago
1) to scare off the lawyer and all future lawyers 2) to build a body of evidence against the lawyers claims To me this is very confident. It's a big gamble coming out like this. Someone who wasn't confident would have just settled and kept it quiet.

wurzelgogerer 12y ago

I love how tesla basically discloses who the plaintiff is, by referring to an old case of his. Hello there Robert Montgomery!

unreal37 12y ago
Seems like the lawyer and his client are trying to get some publicity from this. http://www.startribune.com/local/254186161.html http://www.startribune.com/local/254186161.html

3327 12y ago

Thank you HN for hosting another Tesla public service announcement.

mschuster91 12y ago
There are 29 other interesting stories on the frontpage, you're welcome to choose another :)

ulfw 12y ago

Aren't people starting to get tired of Tesla's constant defensiveness? I feel like we have one of those blog posts every week. Frankly Tesla has great products and doesn't need to act so defensive. Thoughts?

r00fus 12y ago
No. Their insight sheds light onto the struggles that a disruptor has to deal with in order to break through a heavily entrenched cartel (actually overlapping cartels). This is highly pertinent information for like-minded initiatives. Edit: for clarity
marvin 12y ago
They're addressing the issue of public perception. Electric vehicles are new, untried and untrusted. This means that there are two arenas where it is in Tesla's interest to have strong public support: Consumers, who do not want to buy cars which are rumored to be unreliable, and investors who don't want to extend credit to a company which is likely to have customers turn their back on it. Tesla has experienced multiple smear campaigns from different angles and motivations over its short history: Top Gear presenting the Roadster in an unfavorable and inorrect light, the New York Times lying about the car's performance in winter conditions, multiple news outlets overstating the fire risk of their li-ion battery packs. The fear of the public getting an incorrect picture of its reliability and safety record is very much grounded in reality.
frandroid 12y ago
In a world where media is uncritical and takes everyone's viewpoint with the same value, Tesla makes sure that they provide counterpoints to everything someone might want to stick on them, and more. That way, the reporting will always be half on Tesla's viewpoint, or more. Unless there's a dishonest journalist, or Tesla is fucking up and they're dealing with a journalist with critical thinking skills. Stonewalling, 'no comment'ing basically just gives the playing field to the other side. Also, at this point, countering bad publicity properly gives Tesla more media coverage. Not everyone knows Tesla outside of tech circles yet. What's unusual is that you're reading from a news source (HN) that features every small step Tesla takes. That's not the mainstream experience. :)

ef47d35620c1 12y ago

The truth stands on its own.

yock 12y ago

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-lemon-law/7439547/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/04/07/tesla-le... Milwaukee attorney Vince Megna also says that Tesla's policy of selling cars directly to consumers -- rather than having franchised dealers -- is another reason that it is tougher for customers to take action if they are dissatisified with their car. Ladies and Gentlemen, i give you the real reason for the lawsuit.

jonlucc 12y ago
Can you explain? To me, that line makes no sense. If he bought from a dealer, the dealer would have the same power that Tesla has in this case, right?
- jonbwhite 12y ago
  I believe he is suggesting that this action is backed by dealers as part of the ongoing legal battle resulting from Tesla not allowing dealers to sell their cars.
- yock 12y ago
  Tesla is facing opposition to their direct-sales practices in most states right now from the entrenched dealership lobby. It would be mighty useful to have on legal record that the lack of dealerships is materially significant to their ability to fulfill a portion of consumer protection law, whether it's true or not.
ahuth 12y ago
Nice catch. That is some of the worst logic I've ever seen.
koenigdavidmj 12y ago
They drive a loaner to your house and pick up your car. What more do you want?
scrabble 12y ago
Tesla officials, reached for comment, say they can't talk about pending court cases. From the same article, this line really stands out at me. Especially after reading what Tesla posted on their site.

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aaron987 12y ago
Not gonna lie dude. That's kinda creepy.
- scott_karana 12y ago
  It's creepy, but I can understand the interest. After all, the "creep" keeps filing these seeming-illegitimate suits, and would know full well by now that his information is disclosed to the public via the court each time. Talk about blatant!
daeken 12y ago
1) I think it's highly inappropriate to post photos of someone's house on HN, even if they are possibly acting in a scummy way (who knows, maybe he just has bad luck with cars). 2) He may well be plenty happy with his house and dirt driveway; what does that have to do with the car he drives? Let's not turn this into a witch-hunt; facts win in the end.
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jessaustin 12y ago
1) Creepy. 2) Urban privilege much? The driveway pictured is surfaced with gravel, not "dirt". Most people who live in rural areas have a gravel driveway, if they can afford it. This surface is superior to dirt in that it doesn't get muddy when wet. It is superior to asphalt and concrete in that it is far cheaper and more environmentally benign.

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taiki 12y ago

Given just how bloody rich Elon Musk is, he should take the lemons, give them to his engineers to make combustable lemons AND BURN THEIR HOUSES DOWN. (or something.)

LukeB_UK 12y ago
Calm down Cave

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mankypro 12y ago

The cars these guys make are truly magnificent engineering pieces. Fairly sure the tooling is exceptional, so much so that the log files for the front hood told them all they needed to know :) bet that ambulance chaser didn't expect that. ROFLCOPTER.

chaired 12y ago

People are so conditioned by doublespeak PR, they get the icky feeling from plain talk.

mikemikemike 12y ago

If I were Tesla I would probably hire Buzzfeed or some other marketing channel to do a viral story highlighting how schmucky this lawyer and his client are. It would serve the brand better if they weren't seen giving these guys the time of day, let alone real estate on their corporate site.

aspensmonster 12y ago

As of starting to write this comment, there are more comments on this submission bickering about Tesla's PR than there are about the actual merit of the matter: * "Aren't people starting to get tired of Tesla's constant defensiveness?" * "something about the tactics they use seem... off." * "It's almost like they're bullying people they don't like..." * "But. What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now..." * "this blog entry leaves a sour taste with me." * "Yeah, this does not feel good to me. I get the PR angle but this feels not right to me." * "Thank you HN for hosting another Tesla public service announcement." I think the amount of flak Tesla gets on a constant basis from numerous entities that want to see Tesla dead more than justifies their aggressive public stance on these kinds of matters. The lawyer involved is apparently a self-proclaimed "Lemon Law King," which should raise a red flag all by itself. Litigious opportunism isn't usually celebrated by the HN crowd and I don't see why an exception should be made here. HN user yock has also pointed out that the lawyer involved in this suit is making a claim that the lack of franchised dealerships strengthens his justifications for opening a case, in that a lack of a dealerships for Tesla vehicles makes invoking Lemon Laws harder for consumers. Given Tesla's recent battles with states over having to sell their vehicles through middle men, I agree with yock's assessment that this is the real motivation for the suit --to add ammo to the case that Tesla must submit to the dealership franchise model-- rather than a genuine concern for a customer's rights under Lemon Laws to reverse a purchase of a vehicle. But if none of that is enough, there's these gems: >Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly. >After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of the three occasions. I'm all for stomping on double-speaking weasel-wording bullshit. It's not OK when the NSA does it, or the State Department does it, or anyone else does it. That goes for Tesla too. But for some reason it seems a good chunk of the readers here are stomping on what is absolutely the wrong target. Tesla is speaking truth to power and attempting to disrupt a dinosaur of a market that is pulling out all of the stops in a truly glorious effort to kill Tesla off. Could we all drop the pseudo-skepticism act and take note of the plain truth as it is?

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vimarshk 12y ago

It is my request to Tesla to set an example of this person by doing whatever possible so that the lawyer leaves his practice.

danielweber 12y ago
This will not happen.

S_A_P 12y ago

I think that while polarizing this is a smart move. This day in age the high road can get you screwed as public opinion can be swayed irreversibly in a matter of days. You have to take these sort of steps because 140 characters can cast you as evil before you realize it.

epynonymous 12y ago

this reminds me of the patent trolls, there's gold in dem damn litigations no matter how absurd, it's like searching for a loophole and exploiting.

anxman 12y ago

I'll step back and venture that Tesla customers are so happy with the customer service, that Tesla is able to call out bad actors. As a Tesla owner, I'll say that their customer service has gone way above and beyond any car company I've ever worked with. It's been a delightful experience.

darksim905 12y ago

A couple of things: * A lot of people say that Tesla is having a hard time because they aren't doing the whole dealership/franchise thing & wanting to sell to people directly. I feel like this is the fallout of something like that, the ease of someone going after them directly. * If you watch this 'lawyer' & his YouTube videos you can tell that he's going after these companies merely because of the "days" it's been in the shop/getting fixed & nitpicking about some issues that in all fairness, are probably fabricated. * Watched the video about the door handles, I find it hard to believe those don't work as designed but it is a possibility.

takeda 12y ago
The last time he touches and car handle opens, you see that tail light also blinked, just as if someone with the fob is standing off the camera and pressed the unlock button.

wfbarks 12y ago

Probably paid by the dealers to start a fire.

beedogs 12y ago

I'm guessing this suit will be dismissed with prejudice. Dude seems like a real lying scumbag with an axe to grind.