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Human rights record of the United States in 2012 (Chinese viewpoint)
- dcc1 13y agopot.kettle.black
- jayfuerstenberg 13y agoTrue, but the best way to hear about what happens in country X is not always through X's MSM. The same holds true for China and North Korea.
- icebraining 13y agoTu quoque is a fallacy, though.
- angersock 13y agoThere's an unfortunate mix there of some interesting/troubling facts, and seemingly cherry-picked local news stories. It's decent yellow journalism though.
- The_Sponge 13y agoIt's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights. >Firearms-related crimes posed serious threat to the lives and personal security of citizens in the U.S. Some shootings left astonishing casualties, such as the school shooting in Oakland, the Century 16 theater shooting in Colorado and the school shooting in Connecticut. Also, please be aware that this is a translation, which explains for the awkward and sometimes grammatically incorrect wording of this article.
- dcc1 13y agoImagine trying to keep 1.2 billion people under a what amounts to a fascist/statist control if they were are as heavily armed as USasians
- brazzy 13y agoNothing easier than that. Guns were very widely available in Germany after World War 1. http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html Please realize that gun ownership as a constitutional right is an almost exclusively American idea and considered absolutely ludicrous by almost everyone else.
- adventured 13y agoSpeaking for seven billion people are you? The first thing fascist or communist countries do is strictly control who has access to guns. Supporters of the regime, in the case of Nazi Germany, were allowed to keep their guns, but other people were stripped of their weapons.
- RyanMcGreal 13y agoLiberal democracies also strictly control who has access to guns, and they go right on being liberal democracies, albeit with much lower rates of death by firearms. What's your point?
- adventured 13y agoThe point is you're wrong in the conclusion you're drawing. Switzerland is a liberal democracy, and every person has a gun basically. Meanwhile they have effectively zero gun crime. Britain has strict gun laws, and that has not dented their violent crime rate. Mexico has strict gun laws, and their gun homicide rate is higher than in the US. Why? The drug trade + poverty. America has a poverty + drug law problem. That's easy to prove by looking at the gun homicide rate from the 19th century, before alcohol prohibition invented organized crime, and before the modern drug wave + prohibition drug laws. Americans were heavily armed in the 19th century, without the rampant homicides by gun we see today in poor urban areas.
- RyanMcGreal 13y ago
- Loic 13y agoI suppose you can consider that the high number of deaths due to firearms in the US goes against the right to "life[1], liberty and security of person". From a European point of view, the US right to carry/own a weapon is so used and out of control that it affects this basic right to life. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_life
- wyqueshocec 13y agoIf you deprive someone of their life with your weapon, that's a crime called murder. There is no right in the US to actually shoot anyone; you do realize that?
- antman 13y agoIt is not about if you have the right to shoot, it is about if you have the right not to get shot
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y agoWell, I think some people see it as a recklessly irresponsible thing to do for citizens' safety.
- Kurtz79 13y ago"It's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights." It's a view a good majority of citizen in modern Democracies, excluding the US, would agree wholeheartedly with. Although I would define it more as "government wilfully endangering the lives of its citizens" rather than "violation of human rights".
- RyanMcGreal 13y ago> It's interesting to see the availability of firearms to citizens presented as a violation of human rights. The U.S. is an outlier among liberal democracies in its constitutional insistence that access to firearms is a human right. It's also, significantly, an outlier in its rate of firearm-related deaths, with a rate of over 10 per 100,000, similar to Panama and the Philippines and three times higher than the next highest liberal democracy. Canada, which has roughly the same culture and economy as the United States and shares the same continent, has a firearm death rate only one-fifth of the United States. Australia, which also has a similar culture, has a firearm death rate one-tenth of the United States. The United Kingdom's firearm death rate is one-fortieth that of the United States. I get that many Americans believe their 2nd Amendment is what restrains the government from tyranny, but the evidence across all the stable liberal democracies manifestly discredits this hypothesis. What keeps a government from tyranny is not the threat of armed revolt but ongoing broad civic engagement in a dense, complex and mutually reinforcing fabric of democratic institutions, traditions, practices and civic values exercised in open, transparent and accountable ways at every level of resolution from the federal government to municipal affairs. I would go so far as to argue that America's cultural hostility to the idea of government - the deep-seated belief that governments can never be trusted and will only behave (barely) under the constant threat of armed rebellion - is actually a major obstacle keeping the U.S. from becoming more functional and more accountable to its citizens. It's a failed 18th century idea that is holding America back from joining the rest of the industrialized world's norms of civility, and it helps to explain why the U.S. is an outlier in so many varied measures of life, health and wellbeing.
- yummyfajitas 13y agoIt's also, significantly, an outlier in its rate of firearm-related deaths, The US is also an outlier in it's rate of bludgeoning and stabbing, at 1.7/100,000. By contrast, the murder rate (all weapons) in western europe is 1.0/100,000, southern europe is 1.4/100,000, and northern europe is 1.5/100,000. I suppose bill of rights causes stabbings and beatings also? http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- gordaco 13y agoIt's a good thing we have that new perspective. Here in Spain there is no independent press at all. You have the "left" press and the "right" press. Each one talks wonders about their preferred party and throws shit at the others. So you have look into the "left" press to know extensively about the shit from the right party, and vice versa. Similarly, the best perspective about what's wrong with the US is found on non US-friendly press, even if it sounds hypocritical to denounce human rights violations from China. However, press in the US is likely to be much more independent and self-critical than in China (you WILL find self-critical press in the US but not in China, after all).
- zalew 13y ago> Here in Spain spain/poland/russia/uk/germany/france/italy/everywhere... it's easier to be aware that journalism just works that way - ideologies are commercialized.
- x4e31 13y agoLOOOOOOOOOOOOL, united states talks about human rights hehehehe
- w_t_payne 13y agoThere can be no improvement without awareness. Criticism can be uncomfortable, but, if properly analysed and acted upon, it is healthy. Although I do not think that this criticism was intended to be constructive, we can easily treat it as such, and gain advantage from it. A fusillade of brickbats can, if caught deftly, be quickly built into strong foundations.
- patrocles 13y agoReading between the lines... 1] Military has too big a delta over civilians; how can I help reduce that delta sanely? 2] Too much of our communications remains plaintext; how do I roll out crypto today? 3] Our economy has non-productive members; how can I help those who want help? 4] People still don't like most other people; how can I detect/counter any biases I might have? 5] People still sexually abuse and torture other humans; how can I help victims, and help deter future violence? 6] Children don't have rights; how can I help children who want to accept adult responsibilities? 7] The US military costs a lot and seems to only make enemies. What can I do to make it act more like Switzerland's army, but without compulsory service? Or to at least be adequately compensated as World Police.
- est 13y agoThis is strictly r/worldnews material.
- peterkelly 13y agoAgreed. I'm relieved to see that an article about a git command (the second today, on the same command) is #1 on HN right now, while an article reporting on human rights violations in the world's most powerful country is ranked #38.
- ankitml 13y agoYeah, right. Anything about americans is always about the world. I never want to say thing, but this is so stereotypical US behavior.
- adventured 13y agoChina talking about the US is world news related, yes. The two largest economies in world history spatting over human rights is absolutely world news. If that doesn't qualify, nothing does.
- APB 13y agoChinese viewpoint === everybody else but the US viewpoint
- frozenport 13y agoThis isn't a real Chinese viewpoint, this is propaganda issued by state. I know many Chinese who are throughly disgusted by the official media.
- tomp 13y agoDoes that make it any less true?
- ankitml 13y agoAre you implying that each line of that piece is incorrect and only a propaganda? If yes, then you need to get out of American Propaganda first and if No, then your statement doesnt make any sense in this context.
- mmavnn 13y agoTrue. Unfortunately there is a length limit on submission titles, and it was the best I managed within the constraints. I don't believe it makes it a less interesting read from a Western viewpoint, though.
- frozenport 13y agoReads like The Onion.
- Trezoid 13y agoIt's always interesting reading reports on the US through a Chinese media perspective. Stories go round relatively regularly using very carefully selected snippets of news to paint a particularly negative portrait that isn't factually wrong, but so narrowly focused that it misses the overall picture (deliberately) On the parts really stabbing into US communications monitoring, I suspect the reasoning is so the Chinese government can say "Look, it's even worse in the west!" to cover the extent of their own filters and monitoring (which most Chinese people are only vaguely aware of. Most of them take what they're told by the Chinese government as simple fact, and even when they can see the facts from a less biased perspective still refuse to accept it)
- rmc 13y agoStories go round relatively regularly using very carefully selected snippets of news to paint a particularly negative portrait that isn't factually wrong, but so narrowly focused that it misses the overall picture (deliberately) Well.... everyone does that.... it's called marketing/progaganda/etc.
- Trezoid 13y agoOh, absolutely, but it's very strongly propaganda, across every state-owned media source (so, all of them) and in all educational material to the point it's accepted as the whole story surprisingly frequently (and not just about the US. Tibet gets the same level of spin but in reverse. Everything is sunshine and rainbows in the mountains, according the the Chinese media and education system)
- crntaylor 13y agoIt's always interesting reading reports on China through a US media perspective. Stories go round relatively regularly using very carefully selected snippets of news to paint a particularly negative portrait that isn't factually wrong, but so narrowly focused that it misses the overall picture (deliberately) On the parts really stabbing into Chinese communications monitoring, I suspect the reasoning is so the US government can say "Look, it's even worse in China!" to cover the extent of their own filters and monitoring (which most American people are only vaguely aware of. Most of them take what they're told by the US government as simple fact, and even when they can see the facts from a less biased perspective still refuse to accept it)
- spitx 13y agoThis is utter balderdash. A nation that executes thousands of its citizens yearly, while also arranging sham trials and allowing affluent perpetrators to have body doubles serve lengthy prison sentences, should be the last to point fingers at any judiciary, elsewhere. At least, Middle Eastern states follow Shariah, a religious code (however harsh or barbaric) that dictates the severity of the punishment. These Chinese wastrels have no such consistency nor do they have the moral rectitude to hold every one, high-born or low-born, to the same rigor of enforcement. Muslim theocracies often get a bad rap for their macabre laws and punishments. The Chinese are the true compassion-less brutes. No country comes close to the way in which China "cleanses" its lower classes using a medieval "correctional" apparatus. So take that state rag and shove it up Wen Jiabao's rear. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Global_distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Global_distr... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19357107 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19357107 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00pqhxk http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00pqhxk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEd17taOrmA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEd17taOrmA
- adventured 13y agoNot to mention the complete lack of freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, and almost completely non-existent property rights. We're not talking marginal variances (in which case people reply by saying that the US isn't perfect on x y or z either), we're talking the wholesale lack of. I can Google "gulf of tonkin" or look up the spraying of black communities with zinc cadmium sulfide by the military in St. Louis in the 1950s and 1960s. I can read all about the bad things our government has done. In China they have to hide everything via censorship. The US is a basketcase right now, compared to the past, but it's approximately a million times more transparent than the Chinese system of government.
- ankitml 13y agoIf Chinese do human rights violations, this doesnt mean USA is not doing it. If we are talking about violations dome by americans, lets stick to that. I am sure much positive can come from that discussion than finding faults with the messenger.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bwang8 13y agoThe Chinese government post one of these every year to "counter" the one that US-based human rights watch do every year. They definitely know that they are in no position to criticize. However there needs to be some context as to why they are publishing this.
- adventured 13y ago"Americans are the most heavily armed people in the world per capita. According to a CNN report on July 23, 2012, there were an estimated 270 million guns in the hands of civilians in the U.S. and more than 100,000 people were shot by guns each year. In 2010, there were more than 30,000 deaths caused by firearms." There are roughly 11,000 gun based murders each year in the US. The US doesn't first have a gun violence problem, it has a black poverty problem mixed with horrible drug laws that drive it all. The rate of gun homicide for blacks is 15/100k. For Asians it's 1/100k, for whites it's 2/100k. It's almost a 700% greater likelihood that you're going to be murdered by gun if you're black than white. If you fix the black poverty problem, and fix the drug laws, the rate of gun homicides would plunge off a cliff. And besides, Switzerland is as heavily armed per capita as the US is, and they do not have a rampant gun homicide problem. The reason the US does, is explained by poverty and drug laws. Also worth noting: the US homicide rate is roughly the lowest it has been in 50 to 60 years. If it continues to fall as it has been, it'll be back to levels not seen since the 19th century. Not to beat a dead horse, but fix the drug laws and America would be exceptionally low on the homicide per capita scale. http://extranosalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1homiciderate.png http://extranosalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1homicid...
- b6 13y agoI'm not disagreeing, but there's one thing I don't understand. China has more poor people, and their poor are poorer, and their drug laws are as bad as the US's, if not worse. If the problem is just poverty and drug laws, shouldn't we see more violence in China?
- adventured 13y agoIt's poverty + drug laws + guns, that is the killer cocktail. You can't hardly come up with a worse combination. China has violence, but they don't have much gun violence because 1) guns are often beyond the financial capabilities of their poor, and 2) there aren't very many guns per capita. In the US it isn't difficult to come up with $150 if you're poor and want a black market gun. The US poverty line for a household of 1 starts at $11,500 (it goes without saying how much higher that is than most incomes in China, so the availability of cash to buy a gun for even someone that's poor is radically higher in the US). A good example of this in action is Brazil. Their gun homicide rate is twice that of the US. They have some intense poverty and guns, and thus have a very high gun homicide rate (eg compared to China, that just has poverty but limited guns). Also it's fair to say, to top it off, that the US has a far more violent culture in general than China, that amplifies the problem. I'm not speaking of state sponsored violence mind you.
- dferlemann 13y agoSo many comments basically saying Chinese media has no right to comment on human right issue as China does it so poorly. The whole point of this linked article is that the other side is thinking exactly the same. Talking about nationalism... there is just no objectivity on both sides. Both sides should just mind their own business - hell, like that gonna happen.
- adventured 13y agoI don't see anybody saying they don't have a right to comment. I see a lot of excellent points that it's a sad joke for China to comment on the US, while ignoring the brutality in their own backyard.