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Thanks to Siri Recaps, your Apple Watch is always listening
- trolleski 6d agoYou are the product.
- troupo 6d agoQuote: "Watching this Apple event tout how iPhones will soon be able to record ambient audio/conversations and transcribe "high level notes" for you. It's billed as private and end-to-end encrypted, but I think the bigger harm is the normalization of always-listening devices. It's creepy and not normal." https://mastodon.social/@zackwhittaker/117242363654801025 https://mastodon.social/@zackwhittaker/117242363654801025
- sdcfgy 6d agoThat’s going to be a hell of a security risk for us. I think it’ll be a no watches policy in the office going forward.
- Krasnol 6d agoNo watches, no glasses and soon no implants....
- grey-area 6d agoSurely you'd also have to ban phones and other devices with microphones? All these devices can trivially be set up to record, so if your goal is full security, you should be a no phones workplace.
- chrisjj 6d agoMy device has no microphone. Promise. How would you verify?
- tencentshill 6d agoSome services offer modified devices without a camera or mic for high-security environments. https://www.gadgetreview.com/the-iphone-with-no-camera-and-why-nuclear-plants-pay-extra-for-it https://www.gadgetreview.com/the-iphone-with-no-camera-and-w... I imagine this is why Apple has kept the mic array and camera as separate removeable components in their devices when pretty much everything else is integrated.
- chrisjj 6d agoI have not readded those components. Promise. How would you verify?
- iamnothere 6d agoIf it’s an Apple device, it’s pretty easy to verify, if you’re not getting into the realm of spycraft. Open the stock recording app from the store and try to record after verifying the preferences allow recording. This is sufficient for catching bad actors who don’t have immense resources behind them. Even easier if it’s a managed device. If you’re worried about legit espionage, you hold the meeting or do the work in a SCIF, zero devices go in or out period, metal detectors and patdowns on both entry and exit.
- chrisjj 6d agoSo to enforce "to ban phones and other devices with microphones" you'd require the user hand over this phone and you grant access to operate it. I can imagine difficulties. > If you’re worried about legit espionage, you hold the meeting or do the work in a SCIF, zero devices go in or out period Well the problem with that is it would bar required phones and other devices.
- carlm42 6d agoThe irony is that that would probably be Apple's policy with its own offices if a competitor came up with such a feature.
- 0xDEADBEEFCAFE 6d agoAgreed, I was finally considering an Apple watch after years of hating how ugly they are but this is a hard pass for me. Back to the drawing board since now I need to consider privacy when selecting a watch brand..
- khalic 6d agoI don’t think it bothers me, as long as the audio isn’t stored… but I can definitely see why it would bother some people. The device microphones are already always listening, this just makes use of that sound a lot more than just listening for “hey siri”.
- bondarchuk 6d agoCrazy that this is about to be normalized. Can't help but think the discourse of "they already record everything anyway" of the past couple years (even in the absence of complete proof) has played a part.
- Schiendelman 6d agoThere's been plenty of evidence that nothing is recorded or sent back, hardly "absence of complete proof". People have identified basically everything coming from the network stack of an iPhone. This is already normalized in most modern office buildings. There are video and audio recording devices in virtually all common areas. This started a bit after private offices were done away with.
- sillyfluke 6d ago>There's been plenty of evidence that nothing is recorded or sent back, hardly "absence of complete proof". You may have a different understanding of the word "complete" than the standard definition. Unless you are claiming the verifiers kept the watches being tested under constant survellance for several years, the proof you are alluding to may only prove that it is not routinely sending or recording data. It does not prove they can't turn it on whenever they feel like it, or when obeying a time-limited and geofenced mass surveillance order.
- bondarchuk 6d agoUh sorry guys I phrased it weird I meant "complete absence of proof" more like.
- Schiendelman 6d agoYes, that would be accurate :)
- ranger_danger 6d agoI mean, anything with a microphone or camera (and some things without) can theoretically be used to listen to/record you at any given time for a myriad of reasons. If you are worried about such a device being on your person, I think the easy solution is just not to wear or buy one.
- basisword 6d agoPersonally I think it's a silly risk for Apple to do this - but don't Granola and a bunch of other high profile apps already do this? Add to that the number of meetings I'm on now filled with 'John's AI companion' recording the entire thing largely because people enable this nonsense and don't know or care how to stop it. The ship has sailed sadly. The more of this always on recording we have the more society is going to change. We already hear about young people scared to have fun because they might be recorded. Next it'll be people scared to share opinions (or anything gossipy) because it could be recorded and plausible deniability no longer exists.
- napolux 6d agoNever bought a smartwatch, even when I was in love with the Pebble. I hate having to charge it every day. I don't need notifications on my wrist. I have a Casio that has a 10 years battery and dual timezone I need when I travel and a TAG Heuer when I need a "better looking" watch. I don't need to track steps or trainings. Even when I did it was with stupid gadgets like early fitbit bands without displays. When I will need something that will alert people when I fall (in many years from now, hopefully) I will use a specialized device. * You don't need a smartwatch. *
- outime 6d ago>I hate having to charge it every day My smartwatch lasts 10-14 days. >I don't need notifications on my wrist I do, as I hate missing the few calls I get, and I love being woken up by a vibration on my wrist instead of a blaring alarm. I won't address the rest as it's quite subjective, but honestly saying you don’t need a smartwatch is bordering on ragebait.
- dmd 6d agoYou said a bunch of statements about yourself, and then made a statement about me. You should have concluded "I don't need a smartwatch." Not everyone has the same needs.
- basch 6d agotap to pay is handy, i would wear something just for that if it lasted all week on a charge. having a fitness / sleep tracker that i cant wear while i sleep cuz it needs to charge defeats the purpose. doesnt quite fill during a shower. apple also made it prohibitively cumbersome / confusing to own two devices that boot up to identical instances. why cant i have two pieces of hardware, and whichever one i pick up resumes the session. i dont want them to have two configurations, i want them to mirror each other, if a setting changes on one, it changes on the other.
- moepstar 6d agoThat’s actually a good thing to me, wasn’t going to get another Apple Watch anyways - now that’s an even firmer decision now. My reasoning so far was that I absolutely didn’t get the use out of it I envisioned and, to my even bigger surprise, the integration between Watch and iPhone wasn’t even that good…
- Espressosaurus 6d agoHow does this work in two party consent states? It seems nuts on the face of it. I guess they devolve liability onto the user and wash their hands of it?
- j16sdiz 6d agoIt is "not stored" "not recorded".
- concinds 6d agoIt is "recorded" by the Apple Watch's microphone, "stored" in the Watch's Secure Exclave, transferred and "stored" in the paired iPhone's Secure Exclave where it is transcribed, then trimmed of fluff words, then uploaded to Private Cloud Compute for summarization and trimming "sensitive info", then back down to the phone, and then deleted off both Secure Exclaves. The summary is synced through iCloud to the Siri app on all your devices, is "stored" for a week, and can be saved permanently. Apple's marketing screenshots show "Always On - Listen for conversations all day" as one of the four main options when you first turn it on.
- eightysixfour 6d agoIs the speech to text happening on the watch and then the transcription is getting summarized on the phone? If so, the argument may not be as clear cut IMO.
- concinds 5d agoThe speech to text is on the phone and the summary is on Apple's cloud.
- bryanrasmussen 6d agoit works, in an American context, because the states would have to take it to court and determine if this actually fell under the rules of making a recording. Argument for, there is no recording stored anywhere thus it does not need consent. Argument against, there is obviously a recording made. A recording is made and transmitted between devices and Apple and afterwards deleted, that this happens almost real time as the conversation does not change the fact a recording exists for some short time. Probably Argument for wins, but assume at some point the transcriptions become nearly perfect then expect it to be litigated again.
- gumby 6d agoI like the idea (we’ll see about the execs). It seems to record what I would remember anyway (“yesterday you and Joe and Anupam talked about going fishing a chose a date”) unless I was distracted. It’s like the cameras in the glasses. If all they said is what _I_ know (“That’s Julie who worked in the same group as you at company Z three years ago. You also ran into her at the grocery store shortly after you quit Z and it was awkward” but not tell me anything about Julie I wouldn’t know, like spouse or where she now works or anything like that”) it would be an excellent prosthesis. Public figures have humans who do this for them. Unfortunately the glasses makers don’t understand the difference and make it too general and privacy destroying. This Apple thing might be OK in my opinion..but the reality remains to be seen.
- abirch 6d agoI would love to have AI that can help support my fragmented memory. As my mom said, I'd forget my head if it wasn't attached. However, this requires a lot of TRUST with the company this access. Apple is the only big tech I could trust but I'm still unsure.
- voakbasda 6d agoEven if you can trust them don’t, you cannot be sure you will trust them tomorrow. And even if you trust Apple, do you trust the government will not abuse this access? Forever into the future?
- gumby 6d agoApple has clearly done things that make it impossible for them to comply with such requests by not keeping certain data in the first place and/or doing work locally (in the customer’s device) to which it doesn’t have access. This is even in a couple of cases when the result can be inconvenient for the end user (e.g. they can’t restore lost data). But you’re right to ask about the future. The new CEO doesn’t appear to have the same attitude towards the customer, but rather considers them to be a revenue source to be mined.
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- hncbw02z5a 6d agobuilt a meeting bot once, forgot the consent chime, legal killed it same week
- stranded22 6d agoI’m audhd - I LOVE this. It will be so helpful (I hope)
- jsw97 6d agoThis is, I believe, a felony in Massachusetts. https://www.romanolaw.com/can-i-record-a-conversation-in-massachusetts/ https://www.romanolaw.com/can-i-record-a-conversation-in-mas... (Linking to discussion, not the statute, because it confirms that it is in fact enforced.) Come to think of it, this would also include smart glasses, etc. And whatever those LG devices were doing. Paging the AG...
- bonsai_spool 6d ago> This is, I believe, a felony in Massachusetts. I hear this a lot but such a perspective elides the novelty (and the actual question): If I devise a mechanical device that semi-faithfully creates marks that convey information about a conversation - but which does not offer a way to replay the conversation whatsoever - does that constitute a recording subject to two-party consent? If so, how does this relate to a potential decision to write notes about a call right after as a memo/in my diary? If so, how does this relate to having my secretary record the conversation in shorthand while listening furtively to the conversation?
- jsw97 6d agoNot sure why my comment merited a downvote. In any case, quoting from Mass law: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section99 https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Cha... The term ''interception'' means to secretly hear, secretly record, or aid another to secretly hear or secretly record the contents of any wire or oral communication through the use of any intercepting device by any person other than a person given prior authority by all parties to such communication. The term ''contents'', when used with respect to any wire or oral communication, means any information concerning the identity of the parties to such communication or the existence, contents, substance, purport, or meaning of that communication. If you get content, useful or otherwise, from the recording, you are violating the law. Unless you fall under one the exemptions, which you probably don't. So first question, "devise a mechanical device" -- violates. Second, "write notes", no. Third question, "secretary record" -- no.
- haute_cuisine 6d agoWith "use it or loose it" brain feature, I don't really want my natural recap skill to atrophy to make me dependent on this sort of tech. Not considering that they can secretly ship other monitoring features to constantly scan for certain discussions.
- shuwix 6d ago[dead]
- soapdog 6d agoHence why I wear an old pebble to this day. Smart where it matters but not a data siphoning device.
- Molitor5901 6d agoThere has always been the myth/rumor/belief that our devices are always listening. I wonder if this is an overton window moment, get people used to a device actually listening and slowly move to all devices listening.
- bensyverson 6d agoOur devices are always listening, if you have them set up to listen for hail words like "Siri" or "Hey Google," so I think the Overton window on listening already shifted about 10 years ago. The device actually recording/transcribing what it hears is newer, but you're right that it's becoming more and more normalized. With Granola, I think most people assume that any video call is being transcribed, even if there's no indication in the meeting. Whatever side you come down on, privacy doesn't stand a chance against a small amount of convenience.
- RASBR89 6d agoIt depends what you mean by ‘listening’. If you look at how this actually works - it’s basically only ever looking for a certain waveform ‘Listening’ sort of implies intelligence is paying attention to what is said. It’s more ‘hearing’ than ‘listening’ There are documents on how these activation words work
- prophesi 6d agoTo look for a certain waveform, wouldn't you need to obtain all of the mic data at all times? I think that's what's implied by "listening" here, but semantics are rarely an interesting discussion.
- zamadatix 6d agoYeah, I can see maaaany layers to have to differentiate between when discussing. E.g., for just a few random examples: - The microphone always vibrates from the sound waves - The microphone is powered in a way that the sound waves change electrical readings in some way - The electrical readings are sent to another component reading them - A component receiving the data does some kind of unbuffered processing related to triggered actions (e.g. a clapper or a activation wave) - Some component temporarily uses a buffer of the data but not for permanent storage (e.g. live, unstored transcription for the deaf or a 'nevermind' after a triggered activation) - Some component stores or sends data generated by the sound, but not necessarily the original audio or even any attributions of who (e.g. voice trigger web search sends the search query as text) - Some component generates a stored copy of the transcription with attribution of who - Some component stores the actual audio in a way that can be later replayed I'd say this "sounds" like a mess to deal with, but then I'd be worried about falling into a category ;).
- algoth1 6d agoNice, no need for an LG TV anymore
- chrisjj 6d ago> Speakers are not identified Apple thinks that's a benefit, apparently.
- speedgoose 6d agoSincerely, what the fuck Apple? > Your data is not accessible to Apple either, thanks to Private Cloud Compute, and "independent security experts can verify this promise at any time". Siri Recaps auto-delete after seven days too. Apple is serious about getting users to trust this feature. Alright. Let say I’m an independent security expert, how could I verify? I can’t, right?
- lolsowrong 6d agohttps://security.apple.com/blog/pcc-security-research/ https://security.apple.com/blog/pcc-security-research/
- speedgoose 6d agoBut I have to trust them that they run what they present.
- Barbing 6d agoJoin Ernst & Young first? https://help.apple.com/pdf/certifications/en_US/2025-Apple-PCC-SOC-3-Report-11-01-24-to-10-31-25.pdf https://help.apple.com/pdf/certifications/en_US/2025-Apple-P... “Management’s Report of Its Assertions on the Effectiveness of Its Controls over the Private Cloud Compute Provisioning System Based on the Trust Services Criteria for Security, Processing Integrity, and Confidentiality” Maybe it protects the conscience of independent experts. Or maybe contact their media relations and let ‘em know you’ll publish a story on PCC and want to walk their cages, otherwise you’ll let the public know it was prohibited.
- stblack 6d agoSiri cannot tell whether I'm speaking English or French. It's not even close. I have manually corrected "sale" to "sail" a thousand times post dictation, and Siri doesn't notice, it's "sale" always. This transcription feature is gonna be a sad joke. This is Apple doubling-down on shit that doesn't work, and has never really worked.
- seethishat 6d agoIt always amuses me when I hear people complaining about the privacy issues with Flock cameras (on public roads) while wearing an Apple Watch or carrying an iPhone in their pocket everywhere they go.
- throwfaraway4 6d agowhich part amuses you? the one where the former uploads all your data to the cloud only to be mismanaged and surveilled or the where the latter doesn't?
- xbar 6d agoUm. Apple?
- zuhsetaqi 6d agoThanks to Hey Siri, your Apple Watch is always listening.
- ksec 6d agoI lost count how many times my boss will just flat out lie. This will be a very useful feature.
- chrisjj 6d ago...for your boss. "Here's the Siri summary."
- commandlinefan 6d agoAnd if you want to use the (safety oriented!) CarPlay functionality, you HAVE to enable Siri, even if you'd rather not have the damned thing listening to you all the time.
- lcfcjs6 6d ago[dead]
- eshack94 6d agoCan this be disabled?
- encyclopedism 6d agoAlarming normalisation. Issues I see off the top of my head: - Governments can now learn even more about you when they confiscate your device. - Devices confiscated at airports provide a full history of you. - Privacy issues: will my conversation with someone using this tech truly be private? Do I have to be careful what I say around everyone by default? Always have clear thought out opinions? - Personal relations: spouses, friends, relatives demanding to see your history to check up on you and what you've been 'thinking'? - Society where nothing can be assumed to be private by default - Slippery slope to a future where you have always on location, cameras, mics for everyone with a mobile device. A complete reshaping of society. Therefore being unable to count on previous societal norms Anyone got any other issues they can think of?
- nerbert 6d agoWe already have the answer to many of these questions.
- tyrabound 6d agoThe most pernicious thing about all of these matters is that now even if you don’t carry or own any kind of device, you don’t have a smart tv or any similar device or even WiFi at all … all of those around you are effectively the STASI spy network of friends and family and neighbors and random people all spying on you passively if not out or ignorance and carelessness. Short of owning several acres and being able to essentially build a faraday home, you’re effectively going to be in the United Stasi of America. This is not partisan matter short of the people against the ruling class tyrants that always exempt themselves of everything they impose on others. This started a long time ago and all ad insertions went along with it, that includes those the system has presented to you as your champions as well as those they’ve dialectically framed as your arch nemeses.
- jjtheblunt 6d ago> Short of owning several acres and being able to essentially build a faraday home, you’re effectively going to be in the United Stasi of America. my boss did that, and i'm not kidding. sort of a sport, and not faraday cage for home but for the office area he works in. has spent tons on this as a nerd hobby.
- VCFundedGenYer 6d agoThis feature will not make it to release. Just like Recall, it's completely DOA.
- moq4 6d agoHighly recommend the short story “The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling” by Ted Chiang. It explores pretty much what an end state of some of these recap devices will look like in the future, and the implications of it on our personal relationships
- joshstrange 6d agoThis feels like a massive misstep for Apple. It's as if they looked at the Meta Ray Ban controversy and said "I'd like a piece of that!". I'm pretty sure this is meant as a swipe at OpenAI's upcoming hardware as well as the various (failed) AI Pendant devices, trying to make those products just a feature on Apple's hardware but this seems incredibly risky. Based on the number of people who have mentioned this "feature" specifically to me today "can you believe..." I have to assume Apple completely misjudged the response to this but only time will tell. Are we going to have "No Apple Watch allowed past this point"-type signs? Don't get me wrong, I can see the value in this feature for people in all walks of life but the abuse angle worries me quite a bit. Abusive partners, abusive governments, abusive parents, the list goes on... Considering leaving you abusive spouse? Better turn off the watch. Talking to friends about questioning your sexuality? Don't let your religious parents touch your phone. Engaging in wrong-think? Better hope Apple doesn't roll over for the fascist government (spoiler, they will). The risks seem to greatly outweigh the rewards.
- chrisjj 6d agoApply the test: What would Steve have said? A: Over my dead body!