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This. Why would you even connect TV to the network? It is well known for like 5 years. Smsrt TVs go through your movies library, and upload screenshots and fil
by throw93947309 9d ago
This. Why would you even connect TV to the network?
It is well known for like 5 years. Smsrt TVs go through your movies library, and upload screenshots and filenames to internet.
Some will start showing ads after firmware upgrade.
- unixhero 9d agoThey do screenshot? Do you have a source so I can read more?
- gnz11 9d agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_content_recognition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_content_recognition
- wongarsu 9d agohttps://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2017/02/what-vizio-was-doing-behind-tv-screen https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2017/02/what-vizi... "Starting in 2014, Vizio made TVs that automatically tracked what consumers were watching and transmitted that data back to its servers. Vizio even retrofitted older models by installing its tracking software remotely. All of this, the FTC and AG allege, was done without clearly telling consumers or getting their consent. ... "Vizio collected a selection of pixels on the screen that it matched to a database of TV, movie, and commercial content https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.06203 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.06203 shows LG and Samsung doing something similar
- patrickk 9d agoYes tv makers were caught doing HDMI fingerprinting. There was a story some years ago about how basically all smart tv makers were sending data to an ad network based in China. Samsung were openly bragging about this on their website some years ago (for the benefit of their advertising partners) but have recently muddied the waters when I check their site again, couching it in language mentioning privacy and other evasive language: https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS10010616/ https://www.samsung.com/us/support/answer/ANS10010616/
- gosub100 9d agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFu343KNek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFu343KNek
- miki123211 9d agoIt's (mostly) a US thing; basically subsidizing TV prices with ad revenue. It's how the entry-level companies like Vizio operate, though the "big brand" TV makers are certainly just as guilty here. It's much less of a thing in the EU, where data privacy laws are stricter and TVs are hence (comparatively) more expensive. As far as I know, they don't literally scan your media libraries; they screenshot whatever you're watching through HDMI (most often cable / satellite boxes), as those devices don't provide the telemetry that normal apps do. This info is used for audience measurement (thing Nielsen ratings), as well as showing you ads that are actually likely to match your interests.
- wolvoleo 9d agoNo this is isn't just a US thing anymore. Every TV has automatic content recognition now, of some kind or other. Even in the EU.
- amelius 9d agoDid you know that ethernet can run over HDMI? It's called HDMI Ethernet Channel (HEC).
- bzzzt 9d agoYes, but support in devices and cables is very limited.
- iamtedd 9d agoHow much would support increase when manufacturers realise how few of their TVs don't get connected to the network?
- eks391 9d agoThen you make sure to only use HDMI cables that aren't HEC, in conjunction with not connecting the TV to the internet directly, if you want to keep them isolated.
- rcxdude 9d agoTheir solution to that is to either use the cell phone network or services like amazon sidewalk where they connect in through your (or a neighbour's) internet-connected device.
- Dan_- 9d agoI think it’s also possible to piggyback on other devices signed with the same certificate to exfiltrate using BLE. Maybe I’m wrong though.
- _flux 9d agoEven if it did support it, nobody connects their TV to their local network via HDMI, they connect it to their PC. And, as far as I'm aware, no PCs automatically start sharing networking with whichever networks they are connected to. That could of course change. Could be even a nice feature for connecting your TV to the network via your multi media center, if the bandwidth is good.
- ezst 9d ago> This. Why would you even connect TV to the network? I happen to have a NAS with family pictures I like to display. I can (and do) firewall that thing, but then you hit other issues like the apps you need to show pictures and movies in the first place not to install/run. I've yet to hear of a reasonable recipe to isolate and secure such connected TVs. And don't get me started on Chromecast or other Android dongles, I've no reason to expect better treatment from Google. Some open source hacked-together box, then?
- givinguflac 9d agoNo idea what NAS you’re using, but I would recommend the Apple TV box.
- jojobas 9d agoAny SBC like Radxa Rock (cheap) to Orange Pi (powerful). 4k output, a linux you control, play retro games or stream torrent movies.
- mapontosevenths 9d agoNot well. If you only care about file playback, bit still care about things like HDR and quality audio I would recommend something like the OSMC Vero V instead. It's still relatively cheap, and open source, but also let's you playback something like a blu-ray rip without loss of quality. It has the other bonus of not requiring any real setup or maintenance.
- jojobas 9d agoGBM/DRM Kodi supports HDR video on the Orange Pi 5 family. You can grab whatever audio from HDMI or plug whatever in the usb port, the only advantage of this Vero is the optical out.
- Melatonic 9d agoDoes the optical out actually transcode to 5.1 or is it only proper optical when the source has DD built in ?
- jangxx 9d agoI use the built-in AirPlay receiver on my Sony TV quite a bit and that requires network access
- Dan_- 9d agoLG’s AirPlay requires internet access.
- trueno 9d agochrist we need to start rooting tvs and start up a open and secure tv os. i never give my tv os internet access i rely on the appletv for the "smart tv" but if what another poster says is true about lg devices looking for public wifi to exfiltrate data then lol time to start pulling tvs apart and shielding their network components from getting a signal
- mopsi 9d agoThat basically exists, but runs on external hardware: https://kodi.tv/ https://kodi.tv/ There's no need for the TV to be anything but a dumb screen that has only "power on", "power off", "volume up", "volume down" and "mute" functions. Most are probably too underpowered anyway to be useful.
- wavesplash 9d agoWatch the video the article is based on - not connecting to the internet doesn't keep you safe in many cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA
- p0lychromatic 9d agoThis is because they rooted the TV. They can just start a capture, record to RAM / storage, and retrieve it later when it is reconnected to the network. Otherwise if it's disconnected, it is still hard to exfiltrate the data somewhere. Maybe they could get creative via Bluetooth, but then you would need a cooperating device in proximity of the device.
- nerevarthelame 9d agoI think the main risk is that if you - or your kids, or your spouse, or a guest, or someone you give/sell the TV to - do connect the TV to the Internet for even a moment years from now, then all those logs you wanted to keep away from LG are likely to delivered.
- account42 9d ago"Watch this two hour long video" is not a particularly useful reply. If you think the TV can exfiltrate your data without an internet connection then you should be able to explain how it could do that in your own words.
- jandrese 9d agoJust because you didn't allow it on your local WiFi doesn't mean it did not connect to the Internet. Your neighbors might have a guest WiFi it can use. Or maybe it has a built-in cell modem. Your data is valuable, there's reason to put effort into getting it.
- dataflow 9d agoWouldn't using a neighbor's Wi-Fi without anyone's permission or instruction violate CFAA or some other law? Also, wouldn't this be trivial to test by just setting up your own network and seeing if the TV connects?
- duped 9d agoThe alternative is inconvenient and more expensive. And most people simply don't care.
- johnnyanmac 9d agoWe don't really have alternatives, period. LG is the one in the news today, but pretty much any TV this decade has been doing similar things. Computer monitors max out at 32 inches and the idea of a modern dumb TV is non-existent.
- duped 9d agoI meant alternatives to connecting your TV directly to the internet. As in "why would you ever connect your TV to the internet?" is a stupid question - "because I want to watch things on the internet." And it's not like a roku, firetv, or chrome cast dongle is much different (and Apple TV is $200, normal people don't add 20-50% the cost of their TV to do something built in). > the idea of a modern dumb TV is non-existent. They're sold as commercial display panels/digital signage and because they're a business product that isn't subsidized by advertising/spyware they cost a good bit more. But the panels and controls are basically identical to high end TVs.
- elp 8d agoA cheap 4k generic android media box is less than $70 on Amazon. There are dozens of them. I use one because half the apps on my old smart TV don't work anymore. The android ones are always up to date and the UX is better. Is there any TV on the market that flat out wont work if it can't see the internet?
- gblargg 9d agoI was going to suggest updating firmware initially right after your purchase, but that could also update a list of Wi-Fi credentials so it can continue to connect to the Internet using other nearby access points.