6 ms·

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

by bloaf 11d ago

agentultra 11d ago
Why not both?
- Onavo 11d ago
  True but not campaigning against golf courses make anti data center campaigns look hypocritical. My personal criticism of data centers is mostly regulatory failure. The tech companies are choosing random ass states and stealing land from poor farmers instead of the traditional data center states like Virginia mostly because of tax breaks. The local government is just as if not more responsible for the issues with data centers. It's easy however to just point fingers at big tech instead of he underlying market failures in a lot of the states. The traditional data center states almost always have a supply of clean energy and water with a proper regulatory framework.
  - customguy 11d ago
    Might as well say you're a hypocrite for calling these people hypocrites but not others, and unless you criticize all things at the same time, which is impossible, it's all magically invalid.
xboxnolifes 11d ago
There has been tons of reported frustration with golf courses in the past. So, yes, people have, and it's pretty consistent here as well.
- bloaf 11d ago
  I've not seen a single politician calling for statewide bans on golf courses. Its pretty obvious here that people decided datacenters were bad first, then went looking for justifications second.
  - xboxnolifes 11d ago
    Go look up articles from mid to late 2010s. There's where you will find frustration about golf courses, during the time where water restrictions were being put on residential lawns. Do not conflate the more recent, more successful campaign of anti-data-center sentiment with the non-existence of a past campaign against golf courses. It existed, it just petered out.
    - bloaf 11d ago
      Look, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either water consumption is a problem today, or it is not. If it is a problem, then golf courses are today a better target for people who want to solve the water problem than data centers. If water consumption is not a problem, then the data center's water consumption is not a problem.
      - bdangubic 11d ago
        if we limit the number of data centers so that it cannot exceed number of golf courses in any zipcode in america than this is a solid argument, otherwise it is strawman
        senordevnyc 11d ago
        Why zip code?
      - xboxnolifes 11d ago
        I am not doing any such thing. You are pulling whataboutisms left and right, and I'm trying to get across that the lack of a successful campaign does not prove the lack of sentiment. You need to carefully pick which political battles to take and, more importantly, when to take them. If you think the current data center installations have problems you want to be addressed, you don't also bring up golf course water usage, farmland water rights, residential lawns, factory runoff, and climate change effects on rainwater. You'd just be distracting from the conversation.
ok123456 11d ago
People have. That's a common objection to golf courses. The difference here is that data centers are both economically and environmentally extractive. People in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there. Data centers are purely extractive, and that's why they have become so galvanizing. It's transferring probably the only real asset these communities have left, their open spaces, directly to the elite.
- milkshakes 11d ago
  > data centers are purely extractive please, tell me more > people in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there going to go out on a limb here and guess that net-net, a datacenter provides more benefits to a broader spectrum of society than a golf course does.
  - ok123456 11d ago
    That is quite a limb to go out on. What is the exact value proposition of AI as it exists right now for the average person who lives where these things are being built? They don't even get jobs. With golf, they can enjoy the outdoors and escape a little bit.
    - goodmythical 11d ago
      I'm not entirely certain, but I think a data center might just provide more temporary and permanent jobs than a golf course, and with likely higher mean and median wages. The golf park isn't even the best natural-adjacent use of the space. A regular park or a trail will service a significantly larger portion of the population than a private property that transfers wealth from the community to a single person or corporation.
      - ok123456 11d ago
        >I'm not entirely certain, but I think a data center might just provide more temporary and permanent jobs than a golf course, and with likely higher mean and median wages. Well, you're right to be uncertain. After they're built, once the crews that built them move on to the next one, they don't even bother to keep the lights on. They might hire private security guards to patrol the exterior, but that's hardly an infusion of capital into the community. > The golf park isn't even the best natural-adjacent use of the space. > A regular park or a trail will service a significantly larger portion of the population than a private property that transfers wealth from the community to a single person or corporation. Ok. Then they can decide to build a nature trail instead. The local community should make the decision and not be coerced because someone from the coasts thinks that they're a minor annoyance that needs to be lectured on the future of humanity or whatever lessbad rational-du-jore is being peddled.
thrance 11d ago
The left has long been opposed to excessively watered golf courses too. I could probably find another piece of The Economist calling them foolish for that as well, if I searched.
- piloto_ciego 11d ago
  The "leftist" take is "we should seize the means of computation" not "we should protect intellectual property rights!" The hate for data centers is a liberal thing, not a "leftist" take. Although, being against golf courses should be supported by everyone. Golf courses suck.
_DeadFred_ 11d ago
If you really cared about people calling things out, you would be focusing on other topics than datacenters because people call all kinds of things out all the time. That fact you only care about data centers is telling.

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

by bloaf 11d ago

If people really cared about water usage, they'd be trying to shut down golf courses instead of data centers.

agentultra 11d ago

Why not both?

Onavo 11d ago
True but not campaigning against golf courses make anti data center campaigns look hypocritical. My personal criticism of data centers is mostly regulatory failure. The tech companies are choosing random ass states and stealing land from poor farmers instead of the traditional data center states like Virginia mostly because of tax breaks. The local government is just as if not more responsible for the issues with data centers. It's easy however to just point fingers at big tech instead of he underlying market failures in a lot of the states. The traditional data center states almost always have a supply of clean energy and water with a proper regulatory framework.
- customguy 11d ago
  Might as well say you're a hypocrite for calling these people hypocrites but not others, and unless you criticize all things at the same time, which is impossible, it's all magically invalid.

xboxnolifes 11d ago

There has been tons of reported frustration with golf courses in the past. So, yes, people have, and it's pretty consistent here as well.

bloaf 11d ago
I've not seen a single politician calling for statewide bans on golf courses. Its pretty obvious here that people decided datacenters were bad first, then went looking for justifications second.
- xboxnolifes 11d ago
  Go look up articles from mid to late 2010s. There's where you will find frustration about golf courses, during the time where water restrictions were being put on residential lawns. Do not conflate the more recent, more successful campaign of anti-data-center sentiment with the non-existence of a past campaign against golf courses. It existed, it just petered out.
  - bloaf 11d ago
    Look, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either water consumption is a problem today, or it is not. If it is a problem, then golf courses are today a better target for people who want to solve the water problem than data centers. If water consumption is not a problem, then the data center's water consumption is not a problem.
    - bdangubic 11d ago
      if we limit the number of data centers so that it cannot exceed number of golf courses in any zipcode in america than this is a solid argument, otherwise it is strawman
      - senordevnyc 11d ago
        Why zip code?
    - xboxnolifes 11d ago
      I am not doing any such thing. You are pulling whataboutisms left and right, and I'm trying to get across that the lack of a successful campaign does not prove the lack of sentiment. You need to carefully pick which political battles to take and, more importantly, when to take them. If you think the current data center installations have problems you want to be addressed, you don't also bring up golf course water usage, farmland water rights, residential lawns, factory runoff, and climate change effects on rainwater. You'd just be distracting from the conversation.

ok123456 11d ago

People have. That's a common objection to golf courses. The difference here is that data centers are both economically and environmentally extractive. People in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there. Data centers are purely extractive, and that's why they have become so galvanizing. It's transferring probably the only real asset these communities have left, their open spaces, directly to the elite.

milkshakes 11d ago
> data centers are purely extractive please, tell me more > people in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there going to go out on a limb here and guess that net-net, a datacenter provides more benefits to a broader spectrum of society than a golf course does.
- ok123456 11d ago
  That is quite a limb to go out on. What is the exact value proposition of AI as it exists right now for the average person who lives where these things are being built? They don't even get jobs. With golf, they can enjoy the outdoors and escape a little bit.
  - goodmythical 11d ago
    I'm not entirely certain, but I think a data center might just provide more temporary and permanent jobs than a golf course, and with likely higher mean and median wages. The golf park isn't even the best natural-adjacent use of the space. A regular park or a trail will service a significantly larger portion of the population than a private property that transfers wealth from the community to a single person or corporation.
    - ok123456 11d ago
      >I'm not entirely certain, but I think a data center might just provide more temporary and permanent jobs than a golf course, and with likely higher mean and median wages. Well, you're right to be uncertain. After they're built, once the crews that built them move on to the next one, they don't even bother to keep the lights on. They might hire private security guards to patrol the exterior, but that's hardly an infusion of capital into the community. > The golf park isn't even the best natural-adjacent use of the space. > A regular park or a trail will service a significantly larger portion of the population than a private property that transfers wealth from the community to a single person or corporation. Ok. Then they can decide to build a nature trail instead. The local community should make the decision and not be coerced because someone from the coasts thinks that they're a minor annoyance that needs to be lectured on the future of humanity or whatever lessbad rational-du-jore is being peddled.

thrance 11d ago

The left has long been opposed to excessively watered golf courses too. I could probably find another piece of The Economist calling them foolish for that as well, if I searched.

piloto_ciego 11d ago
The "leftist" take is "we should seize the means of computation" not "we should protect intellectual property rights!" The hate for data centers is a liberal thing, not a "leftist" take. Although, being against golf courses should be supported by everyone. Golf courses suck.

_DeadFred_ 11d ago

If you really cared about people calling things out, you would be focusing on other topics than datacenters because people call all kinds of things out all the time. That fact you only care about data centers is telling.