5 ms·

It may be quirky for Americans to hear this, but one pivotal moment when it truly dawned on the average european citizen how corrupt the US has become, was when

by kaon_2 15d ago

It may be quirky for Americans to hear this, but one pivotal moment when it truly dawned on the average european citizen how corrupt the US has become, was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup. Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted. Any toddler could see how wrong it was and it was felt deeply in many hearts. Needless to say trust is close to 0% throughout the population - even the right wing populists distance themselves from Trump - and this is the consequence. I fear we are heading into dangerous times.

lemoncookiechip 15d ago
Unironically true. The average person could care less about following politics, but Europeans live football.
- vman81 15d ago
  > The average person could care less about following politics Could they?
  - dododore 15d ago
    [dead]
  - SAI_Peregrinus 14d ago
    If they isolated themselves from all news, social media, and lived as a hermit, yes. They could care less, but it'd be difficult.
- GJim 15d ago
  > could care less Surely you mean couldn't care less.
  - ButlerianJihad 15d ago
    Well, I could care less, personally. I wish I did care less!
  - sph 15d ago
    I just saw David Mitchell fall to his knees at a Waitrose
  - notabotiswear 15d ago
    Weird Al - Word Crimes
  - justinhj 15d ago
    Countries have different idioms.
    - GJim 15d ago
      Please explain?
      - justinhj 15d ago
        In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less". The intention and meaning is the same. So the original comment did mean to say what they said. My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language. Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"
        slater 14d ago
        > In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less" No, it's not.
        pasc1878 14d ago
        It is. The American version just does not say what it means.
        justinhj 14d ago
        Yes, it is.
        tingletech 14d ago
        maybe it's regional? I always thought "Could care less" was in the same class as "irregardless" or "daylight saving time" -- in common use yet technically incorrect
      - iammjm 15d ago
        One example to illustrate: when talking about dying, Americans would kick the bucket, Poles would kick the calendar, French would break the pipe, Germans would drop the spoon, and the Spanish would pull the leather. But they all would be referring to the US's trust among its allies.
  - AnimalMuppet 15d ago
    https://xkcd.com/1576/ https://xkcd.com/1576/
- ramblerman 15d ago
  I think you misunderstood the emphasis there - yes Europeans love football. The point is that it's so blatant for such little gain, it's still a game. I.e. if he is willing to do that so openly for such low stakes, imagine what he does behind closed doors when it matters.
Eurofags 15d ago
[dead]
kichimi 15d ago
To add to this, because I think it is important context for Americans who may not be aware, football is seen very officially by many European nations and national governments as a cultural counterpart to many international treaties within Europe that were born out of the desire to bring our respective cultures closer together after the second world war. It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically. It is so important, that there are articles written about its importance on EU institutes websites. For example, this one reflects on Footballs importance in relation to the First, Second and Cold wars. https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-football-cultures-and-their-integration-theshort-twentieth-century https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-footb... To see Trump so flagrantly manipulate it sends a cultural signal that is hard for those outside of Europe to see, and that by some can be seen as the cultural equivalent of the political threats Trump has made against NATO. At this point, your average European Trump supporter/right wing populist needs only reminding of Trumps interference to get a complete positional change - that's how bad it is.
- geodel 15d ago
  > It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically. Sports is peak diversion from real issues, Whether Europe, US or India and so on. The countries can go to hell, people can drown in endless real problems. But if people can be smothered with sport entertainment so they ignore real things whats better than that. In India whole country can become absolute crap. Worst on any social, economic indicator but as long free cricket broadcast is on TV and mobile, life is good.
petcat 15d ago
[flagged]
- kabes 15d ago
  Doesn't matter. There's constant bad calls being made by referees. It shouldn't be, but their humans and make mistakes and it's part of the game. But only the mistake against the US got corrected.
  - petcat 15d ago
    How are we explaining Ronaldo not being required to serve his remaining 2-match suspensions at the start of the games?
    - charlieyu1 15d ago
      Same, FIFA is just corrupt.
      - petcat 15d ago
        Okay so then we are agreeing that FIFA, a European institution, is a deeply corrupt, inconsistent, and unprincipled governing body. But somehow this was the fault of the US?
        pasc1878 15d ago
        FIFA is NOT a European institution it is the global one. The European football institution is UEFA which has complained about things like this and is also trying to remove Infantino – but the rest of the world has been bribed enough to keep him on.
        petcat 15d ago
        [flagged]
ericmay 15d ago
> Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted.... was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup. FIFA, a largely European organization created by Europeans for a sport that Americans barely care about and in the center of multiple corruption scandals and controversies over the last few decades and you're really going to sit here and try to tell others that the real wakeup call was when Trump made a phone call to ask that a star player who by many respects shouldn't have received a red card over at best a technicality in the first place be reinstated for the good of sport and competition...? And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting? I guess Donald Trump's phone call was the real last straw, and something like, idk, 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar dying to construct World Cup facilities is just another day at the anti-corruption office? [1] I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...
- transcriptase 15d ago
  [flagged]
- myrmidon 15d ago
  There is a big difference between some sports association being greedy/unethical and elected officials abusing their position of power (especially when they sit in the highest positions and there are zero consequences).
  - ericmay 15d ago
    Right, its just we all lose respect and we're real mad when Donald Trump makes a phone call about something that, well you know frankly the American public agreed with, and we don't lose respect or whatever and we're not outraged when that same extremely corrupt organization continues to do greedy, unethical, and corrupt things. It's astounding that European governments would never do corrupt things. Totally never. And if they did, sorry they only draw the line at influencing FIFA.
ModernMech 14d ago
Notably this was after he waged a violent attempt to overthrow the US government. I thought that would have been it for everyone but apparently I guess soccer is the thing.
- veeti 14d ago
  It may be a violent attempt to overthrow the government to you, but just another season of The Apprentice to us.
nerdyadventurer 14d ago
I'm not Chinese, but I'm confused why people think Xi Jin Ping is worse, yes they have surveillance, there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people unlike US who when filthy rich getting rich, more and more on homeless on the streets. In addition to that there is surveillance by Flock and Palatir. Most of all they do not let corporation to manage govt, even though their big corps like Alibaba has tried. They have to wage the wars to capture someones natural resources, unlike US holding Iraq oil revenue captive, manage Venezuelan oil. Not to mention helping genocide with trillions. Funny thing, I recently saw comment under Turkey cat video, saying something like > Stray cats in live better than homeless in US.
- kaon_2 14d ago
  Yeah it was more as a figure of speech. I actually wanted to say even Hitler didn't steal gold medals during the olympics, but I felt that only weakened my point.
- wewxjfq 14d ago
  > there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people What an ahistorical thing to say. Read more books, less comments under cat videos.
  - nerdyadventurer 13d ago
    > What an ahistorical thing to say I know about dynasties expanding centuries some was prosperous others were not, same goes for European monarchies, amount of killing, abuse, looting done in colonies is staggering even though about most boast about how they conquered this and that. > less comments under cat videos I find cats interesting they have different personas kind of similar to humans than dogs who are people pleasing. Aside from that world should be like this[1], where Chinese and Americans work together. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd7vERQY3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd7vERQY3A

by kaon_2 15d ago

lemoncookiechip 15d ago

Unironically true. The average person could care less about following politics, but Europeans live football.

vman81 15d ago
> The average person could care less about following politics Could they?
- dododore 15d ago
  [dead]
- SAI_Peregrinus 14d ago
  If they isolated themselves from all news, social media, and lived as a hermit, yes. They could care less, but it'd be difficult.
GJim 15d ago
> could care less Surely you mean couldn't care less.
- ButlerianJihad 15d ago
  Well, I could care less, personally. I wish I did care less!
- sph 15d ago
  I just saw David Mitchell fall to his knees at a Waitrose
- notabotiswear 15d ago
  Weird Al - Word Crimes
- justinhj 15d ago
  Countries have different idioms.
  - GJim 15d ago
    Please explain?
    - justinhj 15d ago
      In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less". The intention and meaning is the same. So the original comment did mean to say what they said. My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language. Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"
      - slater 14d ago
        > In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less" No, it's not.
        pasc1878 14d ago
        It is. The American version just does not say what it means.
        justinhj 14d ago
        Yes, it is.
        tingletech 14d ago
        maybe it's regional? I always thought "Could care less" was in the same class as "irregardless" or "daylight saving time" -- in common use yet technically incorrect
    - iammjm 15d ago
      One example to illustrate: when talking about dying, Americans would kick the bucket, Poles would kick the calendar, French would break the pipe, Germans would drop the spoon, and the Spanish would pull the leather. But they all would be referring to the US's trust among its allies.
- AnimalMuppet 15d ago
  https://xkcd.com/1576/ https://xkcd.com/1576/
ramblerman 15d ago
I think you misunderstood the emphasis there - yes Europeans love football. The point is that it's so blatant for such little gain, it's still a game. I.e. if he is willing to do that so openly for such low stakes, imagine what he does behind closed doors when it matters.

Eurofags 15d ago

[dead]

kichimi 15d ago

To add to this, because I think it is important context for Americans who may not be aware, football is seen very officially by many European nations and national governments as a cultural counterpart to many international treaties within Europe that were born out of the desire to bring our respective cultures closer together after the second world war. It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically. It is so important, that there are articles written about its importance on EU institutes websites. For example, this one reflects on Footballs importance in relation to the First, Second and Cold wars. https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-football-cultures-and-their-integration-theshort-twentieth-century https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-footb... To see Trump so flagrantly manipulate it sends a cultural signal that is hard for those outside of Europe to see, and that by some can be seen as the cultural equivalent of the political threats Trump has made against NATO. At this point, your average European Trump supporter/right wing populist needs only reminding of Trumps interference to get a complete positional change - that's how bad it is.

geodel 15d ago
> It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically. Sports is peak diversion from real issues, Whether Europe, US or India and so on. The countries can go to hell, people can drown in endless real problems. But if people can be smothered with sport entertainment so they ignore real things whats better than that. In India whole country can become absolute crap. Worst on any social, economic indicator but as long free cricket broadcast is on TV and mobile, life is good.

petcat 15d ago

[flagged]

kabes 15d ago
Doesn't matter. There's constant bad calls being made by referees. It shouldn't be, but their humans and make mistakes and it's part of the game. But only the mistake against the US got corrected.
- petcat 15d ago
  How are we explaining Ronaldo not being required to serve his remaining 2-match suspensions at the start of the games?
  - charlieyu1 15d ago
    Same, FIFA is just corrupt.
    - petcat 15d ago
      Okay so then we are agreeing that FIFA, a European institution, is a deeply corrupt, inconsistent, and unprincipled governing body. But somehow this was the fault of the US?
      - pasc1878 15d ago
        FIFA is NOT a European institution it is the global one. The European football institution is UEFA which has complained about things like this and is also trying to remove Infantino – but the rest of the world has been bribed enough to keep him on.
        petcat 15d ago
        [flagged]

ericmay 15d ago

> Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted.... was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup. FIFA, a largely European organization created by Europeans for a sport that Americans barely care about and in the center of multiple corruption scandals and controversies over the last few decades and you're really going to sit here and try to tell others that the real wakeup call was when Trump made a phone call to ask that a star player who by many respects shouldn't have received a red card over at best a technicality in the first place be reinstated for the good of sport and competition...? And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting? I guess Donald Trump's phone call was the real last straw, and something like, idk, 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar dying to construct World Cup facilities is just another day at the anti-corruption office? [1] I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022 https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...

transcriptase 15d ago
[flagged]
myrmidon 15d ago
There is a big difference between some sports association being greedy/unethical and elected officials abusing their position of power (especially when they sit in the highest positions and there are zero consequences).
- ericmay 15d ago
  Right, its just we all lose respect and we're real mad when Donald Trump makes a phone call about something that, well you know frankly the American public agreed with, and we don't lose respect or whatever and we're not outraged when that same extremely corrupt organization continues to do greedy, unethical, and corrupt things. It's astounding that European governments would never do corrupt things. Totally never. And if they did, sorry they only draw the line at influencing FIFA.

ModernMech 14d ago

Notably this was after he waged a violent attempt to overthrow the US government. I thought that would have been it for everyone but apparently I guess soccer is the thing.

veeti 14d ago
It may be a violent attempt to overthrow the government to you, but just another season of The Apprentice to us.

nerdyadventurer 14d ago

I'm not Chinese, but I'm confused why people think Xi Jin Ping is worse, yes they have surveillance, there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people unlike US who when filthy rich getting rich, more and more on homeless on the streets. In addition to that there is surveillance by Flock and Palatir. Most of all they do not let corporation to manage govt, even though their big corps like Alibaba has tried. They have to wage the wars to capture someones natural resources, unlike US holding Iraq oil revenue captive, manage Venezuelan oil. Not to mention helping genocide with trillions. Funny thing, I recently saw comment under Turkey cat video, saying something like > Stray cats in live better than homeless in US.

kaon_2 14d ago
Yeah it was more as a figure of speech. I actually wanted to say even Hitler didn't steal gold medals during the olympics, but I felt that only weakened my point.
wewxjfq 14d ago
> there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people What an ahistorical thing to say. Read more books, less comments under cat videos.
- nerdyadventurer 13d ago
  > What an ahistorical thing to say I know about dynasties expanding centuries some was prosperous others were not, same goes for European monarchies, amount of killing, abuse, looting done in colonies is staggering even though about most boast about how they conquered this and that. > less comments under cat videos I find cats interesting they have different personas kind of similar to humans than dogs who are people pleasing. Aside from that world should be like this[1], where Chinese and Americans work together. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd7vERQY3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhd7vERQY3A