7 ms·

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced

I know some modern, normal countries have done variations of this but the US missed a golden opportunity to give everyone an RSA keypair when they were coerced into signing up for an Enhanced/REAL ID. Instead of scanning, taking photos of or holding licences up to webcams (I was asked to do this recently) you provide your public key or, better, a signed message containing the name, website or other identifier which gets cross-referenced by the legit provider against the id.gov database. Of course the devil is in the details and I wouldn't trust GrandePelotas and friends to vibe code such a system but it is absolutely possible and is something we should, at the very least, be thinking about.

ericmay 14d ago
Which “normal, modern countries” have done variations of this?
- deleted 14d ago
  [deleted]
- ShowalkKama 14d ago
  Italy doesn't have crypto keys (as the average person would just lose/leak them) but they offer SSO login with the ID card. Basically whenever you need to verify your identity you pick "sign in with CIEid", you get redirected to a goverment website where you can authenticate (typically by scanning a qr code + scanning your physical id card on your phone) and then you approve/deny the authentication request (you can also clearly see which data is shared (name, last name, dob, etc)). it's stupid easy to setup, the app is not overly bloated and it has different options to authenticate.
- Levitating 14d ago
  European passports are NFC tags and you can prove your identity using your phone.
  - ericmay 14d ago
    I think American passports have those as well because I remember all the hax0rs making videos showing where to smash the NFC chip with a hammer or to buy wallets with special NFC blocking properties to keep folks from “stealing their identity” from the NFC chip. Personally I never cared but your comment jogged a memory. Recently I added my passport to my Apple wallet but I’m not sure if that’s used anywhere.
    - Aaargh20318 14d ago
      On US passports stealing the identity is a possibility as the chip in US passports do not implement any clone detection mechanism.
      - ericmay 14d ago
        Is that still the case? I recall "back in the day" that part of the reason for smashing these NFC chips was because of security failures like this, but I figured over time they'd be addressed. I'd love to read more about what security features US passports are missing and what they have implemented. Just out of curiosity.
- ethagnawl 14d ago
  Denmark, for one: https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/apps-and-digital-services/mitid https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/apps-and-digital-services/mi...
- bnkd92 14d ago
  UAE has an app called « UAE Pass », and the Emirates ID itself uses Public Key Infrastructure. The private key itself is locked into the Emirates ID, and need my biometrics to unlock. Example: When I get delivery that needs my ID, the delivery man just put my Emirates into a card reader, and they need my biometrics to digitally sign the receipt. It’s often used for important delivery (banks/gov documents), and any related gov services (including telecom, if i want to reload my sim card but forgot my pin, i can just insert my Emirates ID and scan my fingerprint and it retrives my SIM card by magic!) You can try to read how they are doing the Emirates ID and the UAE Pass app, it’s super interesting to see this so well intergrated and at scale.
- embedding-shape 14d ago
  Not sure I'd call it "normal", we're exceptional! :) But Spain does have this, I have a literal digital certificate linked to my name, sitting in my browser, that I use for logging in to various government services and also use to sign+submit my taxes. Apparently there even is a page in English explaining how it works, in case others are interested: https://www.fnmt.es/en/ceres https://www.fnmt.es/en/ceres > The CERES project (Spanish Certification) headed by the FNMT-RCM consists of establishing a Public Certification Entity that will enable authentication and guarantee the confidentiality of communications between citizens, companies or other institutions and the Public Administrations via the open communication networks. So far, in my ~decade here, it's been working out great and is so easy to use.
  - Dejhavi 14d ago
    Don't forget the DNIe...you can authenticate using a QR code via the app (like the DGT app) - MiDNI > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.gob.interior.policia.midni https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.gob.interio... - Mi DGT > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dgt.midgt https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dgt.midgt
- Tangurena2 14d ago
  Estonia has done several versions of this. One is a "digital nomad" visa that includes a card with digital keys to do business in Estonia while not living there. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ The design standard for US & Canadian driving licenses & ID cards allows for chips on them. Page 27 of https://www.aamva.org/getmedia/99ac7057-0f4d-4461-b0a2-3a5532e1b35c/AAMVA-2020-DLID-Card-Design-Standard.pdf https://www.aamva.org/getmedia/99ac7057-0f4d-4461-b0a2-3a553... A pet hobby of mine is to get my state to adopt something similar to the Estonian standard. With a card reader, one would be able to vote from home with the election board being confident that the vote was cast by an authorized voter. This would address the fearmongering by one political party that has been going on since some black dude got elected President. Other things could include signing tax returns online. Since REAL ID, getting a driving license/ID is a lot more controlled.
- MilaM 14d ago
  Most European countries offer some kind of government issued digital ID to their citizens, although adoption varies by country. I know two implementations first-hand and use them regularly. They work really well to prove your identity over the Internet. You can use it to open a bank account or use government services. The next step will be EU-DI, an app based wallet with many more features and hopefully better interoperability between EU countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_identification#Usage_of_eID_systems_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_identification#Usag... https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/pages/694487738/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EU...
  - ericmay 14d ago
    Interesting that some of these, including some from the Nordic countries are actually run by financial institutions and not the government.
    - embedding-shape 14d ago
      Yeah, it's kind of surprising to me, even as a Swede, how the entire society just walked straight into "Yeah sure lets depend on BankID which is run by a for-profit company" without really thinking about it. Sure, it's easier, but there are other ways to solve it, that is a bit more resilient and works in practice, like what Spain has (where I live now), where it's even easier and we don't rely on any for-profit companies to provide this service.
  - sam_lowry_ 12d ago
    The next step is giving up Digital Sovereignty to American companies via EU-DI ;-)
- Geof25 14d ago
  The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowing for me. It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of citizenship for ICE, prevention of voting fraud and especially business owners can tell who is citizen and who is not.
  - ycislost 14d ago
    And no one would ever lie right? Each and every vote is counted! The people choose and it’s as simple as that! In fact the people chose with their hard earned votes for Kamala and Trump to run against each other for president didn’t they? Didn’t they? And Europe is even freer! So much global freedom and democracy where we all have a say :D
  - ericmay 14d ago
    > The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it > It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of citizenship for ICE, prevention of voting fraud and especially business owners can tell who is citizen and who is not. Well there are two things here. We don't in my opinion, have much of an issue with actual voter fraud - as claimed by those on the right. However, we also have a number of folks on the left who are against voter ID requirements because it might disenfranchise some voters who don't have an ID... an ID you need to do the vast majority of important tasks in life. I've always said if you're not responsible enough to get an ID we don't want you voting anyway (no I don't care about the downvotes). It's sort of funny how these have seemed to change over time. Folks on the right historically were very much against "big government" ID programs. On the left? In favor! Well, until you start using it for checking who is voting or something. It's also amusing and a little bit irritating that our national ID system is basically 50 state ID systems and they are all centered on having a license to drive a car.... Also Americans can get IDs at a younger age too (children over a certain age need a passport to travel outside the US for example) but we don't really as a society require an ID for many things in practice - it's not really the culture here, we prefer a little bit of anonymity, but once you hit 15 1/2 or 16 you can get a state level driver's license which you'll then carry for the rest of your life. For those who don't drive you are also able to get what counts to just a state ID. Not to make excuses but the US is a little hard to understand some times with these things because there's so much, especially in the news, emphasis on the federal level of the US government but it really is 50 sovereign states who send representatives to Washington DC. Unlike in, say, Estonia which from my very limited understanding is sort of one people, one country, some divisions. In the US you're from California, or Ohio, or Maine and the state manages most of your lifecycle affairs. > The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowing for me. I actually refuse to get a "Real ID". I already have a passport. They can kiss my ass on paying an extra $25 for what amounts to the same ID card I already have. I'll take it for free but I'm not paying for it. I'll just carry my passport when I fly.
- thephyber 14d ago
  Estonia's Digital Residency card has done this for nearly 2 decades. S Korea has had government issued digital IDs for all online transactions, although it was originally implemented as an Internet Explorer 5.5 plug-in (eww). I haven't heard anything about how it works these days. Japan has new digital IDs cards and a standard little device available at every corner store to use it to digitally sign legal documents.
iAMkenough 14d ago
And just like the government backpedaled on the Real ID deadline, the federal government is backpedaling on login.gov and is still actively launching agencies on private third-party id.me identity verification.
swingboy 14d ago
This would probably be considered “disenfranchising” because people would have a hard time keeping track of their public key and the process to recover it would involve having to take off work, transportation, etc.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 14d ago
  That could alternatively be seen as a reason we should make employment less hostile to workers and encourage less car-centric city designs.
- Spooky23 14d ago
  [flagged]
  - kspacewalk2 14d ago
    Conservatives seemingly went from the libertarian extreme where everything under the sun is a "threat to liberty" straight to cheer-leading global authoritarianism, skipping the middle altogether.
- thephyber 14d ago
  Ah yes, a facetious jab at legitimate criticisms of Voter ID laws. It's worth pointing out that the point of contact for state IDs is the DMV, which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint. If, instead, it was done at USPS offices or even by postal workers on their routes, no one would complain. It's entirely about whether the burden is placed on the citizen to maintain their Constitutionally guaranteed rights or whether political agents can use the state to selectively burden neighborhoods, especially ones with no / badly performing DMV offices.
  - packetlost 14d ago
    > which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).
creamedpeas 14d ago
[dead]
ck2 14d ago
[dead]
adolph 14d ago
> give everyone an RSA keypair Effectively this allows the keypair issuing government (and thus whoever collects breach data) the ability to impersonate you. Seems like a terrible idea.
red-iron-pine 14d ago
the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them i also have 0 trust in the USG's ability to not lose those, either through hacking or through blatent corruption a la DOGE, et al
- ethagnawl 14d ago
  > the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them You're right. Since a few others have said as much, I was sketching an outline and not suggesting handing people literal RSA keypairs. Any practical, _usable_ solution would involve a physical card, mobile app, web app, etc.
- yencabulator 14d ago
  I don't manage the data stored in my passport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport
- seniorThrowaway 14d ago
  DoD (DoW whatever) has been running the CAC PKI infrastructure for over 20 years, and believe me a good deal of their three quarters of a million employees have no idea what PKI or keypairs are but use it to log into their workstation and do all sorts of online identity validation every single day. https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ I'm not saying the gov is competent in general btw, but they are actually far better about this area than private industry, in my direct experience.
mindslight 14d ago
The big problem is that there has been, and is still, basically no political will in the US for GDPR-style privacy rights [0]. The current ID systems (DL# and SSN#) are already being flagrantly abused by an unaccountable surveillance industry, which backhauls every bit of data it can get away with, maintaining comprehensive dossiers on each of us. So until this is actually reigned in, then every bit of friction here actually helps as it prevents even more businesses from routinely demanding ID. [0] due to constant undermining by said surveillance industry, which has now basically become "too big to fail"
LorenPechtel 14d ago
And the government keeps the database truly secure? You're providing a single point of compromise that would be incredibly valuable. If nothing else, it would be cracked the XKCD way.

ericmay 14d ago

Which “normal, modern countries” have done variations of this?

deleted 14d ago
[deleted]
ShowalkKama 14d ago
Italy doesn't have crypto keys (as the average person would just lose/leak them) but they offer SSO login with the ID card. Basically whenever you need to verify your identity you pick "sign in with CIEid", you get redirected to a goverment website where you can authenticate (typically by scanning a qr code + scanning your physical id card on your phone) and then you approve/deny the authentication request (you can also clearly see which data is shared (name, last name, dob, etc)). it's stupid easy to setup, the app is not overly bloated and it has different options to authenticate.
Levitating 14d ago
European passports are NFC tags and you can prove your identity using your phone.
- ericmay 14d ago
  I think American passports have those as well because I remember all the hax0rs making videos showing where to smash the NFC chip with a hammer or to buy wallets with special NFC blocking properties to keep folks from “stealing their identity” from the NFC chip. Personally I never cared but your comment jogged a memory. Recently I added my passport to my Apple wallet but I’m not sure if that’s used anywhere.
  - Aaargh20318 14d ago
    On US passports stealing the identity is a possibility as the chip in US passports do not implement any clone detection mechanism.
    - ericmay 14d ago
      Is that still the case? I recall "back in the day" that part of the reason for smashing these NFC chips was because of security failures like this, but I figured over time they'd be addressed. I'd love to read more about what security features US passports are missing and what they have implemented. Just out of curiosity.
ethagnawl 14d ago
Denmark, for one: https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/apps-and-digital-services/mitid https://lifeindenmark.borger.dk/apps-and-digital-services/mi...
bnkd92 14d ago
UAE has an app called « UAE Pass », and the Emirates ID itself uses Public Key Infrastructure. The private key itself is locked into the Emirates ID, and need my biometrics to unlock. Example: When I get delivery that needs my ID, the delivery man just put my Emirates into a card reader, and they need my biometrics to digitally sign the receipt. It’s often used for important delivery (banks/gov documents), and any related gov services (including telecom, if i want to reload my sim card but forgot my pin, i can just insert my Emirates ID and scan my fingerprint and it retrives my SIM card by magic!) You can try to read how they are doing the Emirates ID and the UAE Pass app, it’s super interesting to see this so well intergrated and at scale.
embedding-shape 14d ago
Not sure I'd call it "normal", we're exceptional! :) But Spain does have this, I have a literal digital certificate linked to my name, sitting in my browser, that I use for logging in to various government services and also use to sign+submit my taxes. Apparently there even is a page in English explaining how it works, in case others are interested: https://www.fnmt.es/en/ceres https://www.fnmt.es/en/ceres > The CERES project (Spanish Certification) headed by the FNMT-RCM consists of establishing a Public Certification Entity that will enable authentication and guarantee the confidentiality of communications between citizens, companies or other institutions and the Public Administrations via the open communication networks. So far, in my ~decade here, it's been working out great and is so easy to use.
- Dejhavi 14d ago
  Don't forget the DNIe...you can authenticate using a QR code via the app (like the DGT app) - MiDNI > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.gob.interior.policia.midni https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=es.gob.interio... - Mi DGT > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dgt.midgt https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dgt.midgt
Tangurena2 14d ago
Estonia has done several versions of this. One is a "digital nomad" visa that includes a card with digital keys to do business in Estonia while not living there. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ The design standard for US & Canadian driving licenses & ID cards allows for chips on them. Page 27 of https://www.aamva.org/getmedia/99ac7057-0f4d-4461-b0a2-3a5532e1b35c/AAMVA-2020-DLID-Card-Design-Standard.pdf https://www.aamva.org/getmedia/99ac7057-0f4d-4461-b0a2-3a553... A pet hobby of mine is to get my state to adopt something similar to the Estonian standard. With a card reader, one would be able to vote from home with the election board being confident that the vote was cast by an authorized voter. This would address the fearmongering by one political party that has been going on since some black dude got elected President. Other things could include signing tax returns online. Since REAL ID, getting a driving license/ID is a lot more controlled.
MilaM 14d ago
Most European countries offer some kind of government issued digital ID to their citizens, although adoption varies by country. I know two implementations first-hand and use them regularly. They work really well to prove your identity over the Internet. You can use it to open a bank account or use government services. The next step will be EU-DI, an app based wallet with many more features and hopefully better interoperability between EU countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_identification#Usage_of_eID_systems_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_identification#Usag... https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/pages/694487738/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EU...
- ericmay 14d ago
  Interesting that some of these, including some from the Nordic countries are actually run by financial institutions and not the government.
  - embedding-shape 14d ago
    Yeah, it's kind of surprising to me, even as a Swede, how the entire society just walked straight into "Yeah sure lets depend on BankID which is run by a for-profit company" without really thinking about it. Sure, it's easier, but there are other ways to solve it, that is a bit more resilient and works in practice, like what Spain has (where I live now), where it's even easier and we don't rely on any for-profit companies to provide this service.
- sam_lowry_ 12d ago
  The next step is giving up Digital Sovereignty to American companies via EU-DI ;-)
Geof25 14d ago
The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowing for me. It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of citizenship for ICE, prevention of voting fraud and especially business owners can tell who is citizen and who is not.
- ycislost 14d ago
  And no one would ever lie right? Each and every vote is counted! The people choose and it’s as simple as that! In fact the people chose with their hard earned votes for Kamala and Trump to run against each other for president didn’t they? Didn’t they? And Europe is even freer! So much global freedom and democracy where we all have a say :D
- ericmay 14d ago
  > The whole idea of "voter's fraud" is actually something unheard of in Europe because you will get government issued id (Citizen ID) when you reach 15 y/o and it is renewed every 10 years. You are then using it for voting and in general proving your identity. The later models are biometric so it is very hard to fake it > It is elegant solution to everything what current administration is complaining about - prove of citizenship for ICE, prevention of voting fraud and especially business owners can tell who is citizen and who is not. Well there are two things here. We don't in my opinion, have much of an issue with actual voter fraud - as claimed by those on the right. However, we also have a number of folks on the left who are against voter ID requirements because it might disenfranchise some voters who don't have an ID... an ID you need to do the vast majority of important tasks in life. I've always said if you're not responsible enough to get an ID we don't want you voting anyway (no I don't care about the downvotes). It's sort of funny how these have seemed to change over time. Folks on the right historically were very much against "big government" ID programs. On the left? In favor! Well, until you start using it for checking who is voting or something. It's also amusing and a little bit irritating that our national ID system is basically 50 state ID systems and they are all centered on having a license to drive a car.... Also Americans can get IDs at a younger age too (children over a certain age need a passport to travel outside the US for example) but we don't really as a society require an ID for many things in practice - it's not really the culture here, we prefer a little bit of anonymity, but once you hit 15 1/2 or 16 you can get a state level driver's license which you'll then carry for the rest of your life. For those who don't drive you are also able to get what counts to just a state ID. Not to make excuses but the US is a little hard to understand some times with these things because there's so much, especially in the news, emphasis on the federal level of the US government but it really is 50 sovereign states who send representatives to Washington DC. Unlike in, say, Estonia which from my very limited understanding is sort of one people, one country, some divisions. In the US you're from California, or Ohio, or Maine and the state manages most of your lifecycle affairs. > The fact that USA never finished the Real ID thing as the Citizen ID in Europe is kind of mind blowing for me. I actually refuse to get a "Real ID". I already have a passport. They can kiss my ass on paying an extra $25 for what amounts to the same ID card I already have. I'll take it for free but I'm not paying for it. I'll just carry my passport when I fly.
thephyber 14d ago
Estonia's Digital Residency card has done this for nearly 2 decades. S Korea has had government issued digital IDs for all online transactions, although it was originally implemented as an Internet Explorer 5.5 plug-in (eww). I haven't heard anything about how it works these days. Japan has new digital IDs cards and a standard little device available at every corner store to use it to digitally sign legal documents.

iAMkenough 14d ago

And just like the government backpedaled on the Real ID deadline, the federal government is backpedaling on login.gov and is still actively launching agencies on private third-party id.me identity verification.

swingboy 14d ago

This would probably be considered “disenfranchising” because people would have a hard time keeping track of their public key and the process to recover it would involve having to take off work, transportation, etc.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 14d ago
That could alternatively be seen as a reason we should make employment less hostile to workers and encourage less car-centric city designs.
Spooky23 14d ago
[flagged]
- kspacewalk2 14d ago
  Conservatives seemingly went from the libertarian extreme where everything under the sun is a "threat to liberty" straight to cheer-leading global authoritarianism, skipping the middle altogether.
thephyber 14d ago
Ah yes, a facetious jab at legitimate criticisms of Voter ID laws. It's worth pointing out that the point of contact for state IDs is the DMV, which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint. If, instead, it was done at USPS offices or even by postal workers on their routes, no one would complain. It's entirely about whether the burden is placed on the citizen to maintain their Constitutionally guaranteed rights or whether political agents can use the state to selectively burden neighborhoods, especially ones with no / badly performing DMV offices.
- packetlost 14d ago
  > which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).

creamedpeas 14d ago

[dead]

ck2 14d ago

[dead]

adolph 14d ago

> give everyone an RSA keypair Effectively this allows the keypair issuing government (and thus whoever collects breach data) the ability to impersonate you. Seems like a terrible idea.

red-iron-pine 14d ago

the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them i also have 0 trust in the USG's ability to not lose those, either through hacking or through blatent corruption a la DOGE, et al

ethagnawl 14d ago
> the average american, even educated and talented ones, have absolutely no serious understanding what keypairs are, or why they need to take care of them You're right. Since a few others have said as much, I was sketching an outline and not suggesting handing people literal RSA keypairs. Any practical, _usable_ solution would involve a physical card, mobile app, web app, etc.
yencabulator 14d ago
I don't manage the data stored in my passport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport
seniorThrowaway 14d ago
DoD (DoW whatever) has been running the CAC PKI infrastructure for over 20 years, and believe me a good deal of their three quarters of a million employees have no idea what PKI or keypairs are but use it to log into their workstation and do all sorts of online identity validation every single day. https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ I'm not saying the gov is competent in general btw, but they are actually far better about this area than private industry, in my direct experience.

mindslight 14d ago

The big problem is that there has been, and is still, basically no political will in the US for GDPR-style privacy rights [0]. The current ID systems (DL# and SSN#) are already being flagrantly abused by an unaccountable surveillance industry, which backhauls every bit of data it can get away with, maintaining comprehensive dossiers on each of us. So until this is actually reigned in, then every bit of friction here actually helps as it prevents even more businesses from routinely demanding ID. [0] due to constant undermining by said surveillance industry, which has now basically become "too big to fail"

LorenPechtel 14d ago

And the government keeps the database truly secure? You're providing a single point of compromise that would be incredibly valuable. If nothing else, it would be cracked the XKCD way.