9 ms·

Unlawful means absolutely nothing these days.

noir_lord 19d ago
It's the Gish gallop applied to a legal/legislative system - it just can't keep up with the sheer volume of cases that would need to be brought to curtail even the worst of it and that's assuming that if/when it eventually gets in front of the supreme court that that "august" body actually does curtail it.
- horsawlarway 19d ago
  Yes - because the system is trying to prevent the flood by piling up sticks instead of removing the source of water. It's in failure mode (intentionally, is my read) because while it might eventually declare "x is not legal" at no point is it discouraging the people who did X (and have now also done y, z, 1, 2, and 3 - all also likely illegal) because there is zero actual accountability at the personal level. If your house is flooding from a broken pipe... you don't bail. You turn the water off.
  - estearum 19d ago
    The problem is that courts are getting flooded but it's up to Congress (de facto the Republican party) to remove the source of water. But they're a mixture of exclusively cultists or cowards so they won't do it. They need to be charged with any and every crime they can credibly be accused of so this calculus changes in the future.
- Tangurena2 19d ago
  Steve Bannon, who advised the 45 administration, called that tactic "flood the zone with shit". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_the_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_the_zone https://archive.ph/BfuVs https://archive.ph/BfuVs
mc32 19d ago
Right, like the student debt forgiveness. We hate the ones we disagree with and we love the ones we agree with.
- watwut 19d ago
  I dont know what you mean there. There is literally no symmetry between the two. Not in the case of how Biden administration reacted to cases they lost. And also not in the supreme court treatment - it ideological and political goals are pretty clear at this point, although not always pro-Trump.
- kevin_thibedeau 19d ago
  Debt forgiveness was dumb too. It normalized capricious government handouts for volitional actions. After the Corinthian shutdown there was little excuse for taking on massive debt for BS degrees.
  - lenerdenator 19d ago
    How was it dumb? You have a generation of Americans who were told repeatedly and often in their teenage years that if they wanted to be able to compete in the global job marketplace, they'd need, at the very least, a bachelor's degree. As it turns out, employers were going to offshore those jobs and cut those wages regardless of your education. The value of degrees was wildly over-inflated compared to the economic reality, particularly after the Great Recession and COVID. The result has been an entire generation of people who aren't able to attain the same life milestones as their parents' generation, which is inherently destabilizing to a society. Corinthian Colleges wasn't the main perpetrator of this; the entire system was. By their shutdown in 2015, most people born between 1980 and 1995 were out of college and were paying massive loans to legitimate schools. When you have a party (in this case, the federal government) obtaining something of value (student loan interest payments) via statements that are materially not true, there's a word for that: fraud. Student loan forgiveness was a targeted effort on the behalf of a lending institution's head officer - in this case, the President of the United States - to try and renegotiate the terms of the loan serviced by that institution as to give some remedy to the problem. This would have required a write-down of the foregone payments that would be approximately equal to what the US government spends on providing OASDI checks to retirees for one year, and most retirees do not rely on OASDI checks to avoid homelessness, starvation, or other destitution. It's basically a bonus that you get for living over the age of 65, at this point being paid in part by loans taken out by the US government that will have to be paid off long after the recipients of that money are dead.
derektank 19d ago
I don’t know, the $166B in refunds returned to importers after the IEEPA tariffs were ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court seem pretty meaningful
- lazide 19d ago
  Not for stopping damage to the end-payers of those fees. Great for fleecing those end-payers, however.
- embedding-shape 19d ago
  Meaningful for who though, the common person in the country?
- harimau777 19d ago
  Ya, but that's only going to the corporations. I doubt they are going to send the rest of us a check.
  - JumpCrisscross 19d ago
    I got a refund…
- j4yav 19d ago
  Meaningful as a mega transfer of tax revenue from citizens to corporations, which for all we know was the whole point.
Tangurena2 19d ago
Congress is supposed to hold the Executive branch accountable. They deliberately refuse to do so because keeping their cult in power is all that matters to them.
lenerdenator 19d ago
Of course it does. For those trying to hold the administration to account, there's all sorts of laws. Can't indict the President for unlawful acts during his term. Can't post pictures online about the President. Can't lawfully protest against ICE agents abducting people off the street.

It's the Gish gallop applied to a legal/legislative system - it just can't keep up with the sheer volume of cases that would need to be brought to curtail even the worst of it and that's assuming that if/when it eventually gets in front of the supreme court that that "august" body actually does curtail it.

horsawlarway 19d ago
Yes - because the system is trying to prevent the flood by piling up sticks instead of removing the source of water. It's in failure mode (intentionally, is my read) because while it might eventually declare "x is not legal" at no point is it discouraging the people who did X (and have now also done y, z, 1, 2, and 3 - all also likely illegal) because there is zero actual accountability at the personal level. If your house is flooding from a broken pipe... you don't bail. You turn the water off.
- estearum 19d ago
  The problem is that courts are getting flooded but it's up to Congress (de facto the Republican party) to remove the source of water. But they're a mixture of exclusively cultists or cowards so they won't do it. They need to be charged with any and every crime they can credibly be accused of so this calculus changes in the future.
Tangurena2 19d ago
Steve Bannon, who advised the 45 administration, called that tactic "flood the zone with shit". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_the_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_the_zone https://archive.ph/BfuVs https://archive.ph/BfuVs

mc32 19d ago

Right, like the student debt forgiveness. We hate the ones we disagree with and we love the ones we agree with.

watwut 19d ago
I dont know what you mean there. There is literally no symmetry between the two. Not in the case of how Biden administration reacted to cases they lost. And also not in the supreme court treatment - it ideological and political goals are pretty clear at this point, although not always pro-Trump.
kevin_thibedeau 19d ago
Debt forgiveness was dumb too. It normalized capricious government handouts for volitional actions. After the Corinthian shutdown there was little excuse for taking on massive debt for BS degrees.
- lenerdenator 19d ago
  How was it dumb? You have a generation of Americans who were told repeatedly and often in their teenage years that if they wanted to be able to compete in the global job marketplace, they'd need, at the very least, a bachelor's degree. As it turns out, employers were going to offshore those jobs and cut those wages regardless of your education. The value of degrees was wildly over-inflated compared to the economic reality, particularly after the Great Recession and COVID. The result has been an entire generation of people who aren't able to attain the same life milestones as their parents' generation, which is inherently destabilizing to a society. Corinthian Colleges wasn't the main perpetrator of this; the entire system was. By their shutdown in 2015, most people born between 1980 and 1995 were out of college and were paying massive loans to legitimate schools. When you have a party (in this case, the federal government) obtaining something of value (student loan interest payments) via statements that are materially not true, there's a word for that: fraud. Student loan forgiveness was a targeted effort on the behalf of a lending institution's head officer - in this case, the President of the United States - to try and renegotiate the terms of the loan serviced by that institution as to give some remedy to the problem. This would have required a write-down of the foregone payments that would be approximately equal to what the US government spends on providing OASDI checks to retirees for one year, and most retirees do not rely on OASDI checks to avoid homelessness, starvation, or other destitution. It's basically a bonus that you get for living over the age of 65, at this point being paid in part by loans taken out by the US government that will have to be paid off long after the recipients of that money are dead.

derektank 19d ago

I don’t know, the $166B in refunds returned to importers after the IEEPA tariffs were ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court seem pretty meaningful

lazide 19d ago
Not for stopping damage to the end-payers of those fees. Great for fleecing those end-payers, however.
embedding-shape 19d ago
Meaningful for who though, the common person in the country?
harimau777 19d ago
Ya, but that's only going to the corporations. I doubt they are going to send the rest of us a check.
- JumpCrisscross 19d ago
  I got a refund…
j4yav 19d ago
Meaningful as a mega transfer of tax revenue from citizens to corporations, which for all we know was the whole point.

Tangurena2 19d ago

Congress is supposed to hold the Executive branch accountable. They deliberately refuse to do so because keeping their cult in power is all that matters to them.

lenerdenator 19d ago

Of course it does. For those trying to hold the administration to account, there's all sorts of laws. Can't indict the President for unlawful acts during his term. Can't post pictures online about the President. Can't lawfully protest against ICE agents abducting people off the street.