22 ms·

These bad outcomes aren't coming. Maybe we as customers don't like it but it doesn't mean the companies are suffering for it. For example, McDonald's reported

These bad outcomes aren't coming. Maybe we as customers don't like it but it doesn't mean the companies are suffering for it. For example, McDonald's reported a full-year 2025 net income (profit) of $8.563 billion, an increase from the $8.223 billion reported in 2024.

lkey 1mo ago
Spirit of Capital Accumulation be praised! May 'annual profit' continue to be the only measure that has mattered, does matter, or will ever matter to those that bask in the radiance of perpetual earning growth!
- wvenable 1mo ago
  The large multi-national corporation known as "McDonald's" should care about its family, friends, and personal fulfillment instead?
  - valleyer 1mo ago
    Yes. The people that make up that corporation should care about their fellow man (family, friends) and should take pride in making good things (personal fulfillment). We are allowed to pierce the corporate veil here.
    - wvenable 1mo ago
      Who say's they don't? How does this compare to what you do for a living?
      - johnnyanmac 1mo ago
        >Who say's they don't? Their workers, customers, and probably some local governments. They might even say it themselves at times. > How does this compare to what you do for a living? I make video games. There's always some sausage but I like to think I'm helping to bring joy and spark creativity, not simply make a billionaire richer. Given my lack of full time work, I'm at least sure these last few years I'm not doing the latter directly.
  - dylan604 1mo ago
    Really think about it for a second; $8.5 billion in profit. That's an insane amount of money. How many companies with that kind of profit are actively dodging taxes from aggressive accounting, getting deals with local governments, or any other way? Not that the government would spend the extra tax revenue wisely. Instead, what if they took $1 billion of that to increase the pay of the lowest earning employees significantly while not increase the highest earners at all, or paying 100% of health care (medical, dental, vision, and mental), or any of the other things to help improve employee relationships. Then, start focusing on the external things that could be directly improved by taking less profit to improve things for those so much is taken. That's still $7.5 billion in profit.
    - wvenable 1mo ago
      > How many companies with that kind of profit are actively dodging taxes from aggressive accounting, getting deals with local governments, or any other way? I don't think it's fair to imply that McDonald's is doing anything shady. They have over 2 million workers (although not directly, it's a franchise model). They make a lot of profit but, proportional to the total workforce, it's about average. Hardly something to be outraged about. If you spread $1 billion evenly among two million workers, that's about $500 per employee per year. That is roughly 25 cents an hour for a full-time worker. Paying 100% health care would be several billion dollars. The underlying implication here is whether companies should make any profit at all. If the amount of profit allowed is non-zero, what is the correct number? And if there is a correct number, what do you propose to do about it?
      - lovich 1mo ago
        The average American, which McDonald’s workers are on the low end side, can’t handle a 500 dollar emergency. 500 dollars a year to every worker would make a material difference in most of their lives.
        wvenable 1mo ago
        Ok. Lets do it. Tell me how?
  - lkey 1mo ago
    You may have no memory of it, but there was a time when many American corporations had different, broader values. The structure of the present is not necessary or inevitable.
    - wvenable 1mo ago
      Did they really have broader values or did they just not have the technical sophistication to optimize their operation to this level? Where "values" just a substitute for more limited information? I think computers have made the structure of the present inevitable.
      - lesuorac 1mo ago
        Imo a bit of both. The founders [1] of mcdonalds probably did care about say cheaply providing people with enjoyable food. But I would bet soon after they sold [2] the company the actual values changed and definitely a bunch of CEOs down the road the guy put in charge is there for shareholder return. I personally don't think it's computers. It's unfettered corperatization. Stop giving companies corporate charters to "do all business activities allowed by X state" and instead give them more narrow charters. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_and_Maurice_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_and_Maurice_McDonald [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc
        wvenable 1mo ago
        Richard and Maurice McDonald had a small business that almost certainly wouldn't even be around today if they didn't sell to Ray Kroc. The McDonald's we know is a corporation. Corporatization is the process of turning government agencies, public services, or non-business organization into corporations. A more broad interpretation would be applying corporate philosophy to non-corporate things. McDonald's is already a corporation -- corporatization doesn't apply. If you don't want corporations to be corporate; I don't what to tell you!
        johnnyanmac 1mo ago
enquirewithin 1mo ago
Meaningless. The correct question is: how much more or less would they make if they were applying some other philosophy? At least in the context of this conversation. And, an increase in profit of $340 million across 13,882 stores (in the US) is less impressive. And presumably that $8.563 billion is McDonalds corporate and the franchisees didn’t see all of that gain.
- wvenable 1mo ago
  This is meaningless because it's entirely hypothetical. If McDonald's is only looking at quantitative data the "bad outcome" hasn't come for them. It seems quite successful in fact (especially in these tough economic times). Maybe if leads to a massive failure we can come back and revisit this but for now, based on facts, it's working just fine for them. People like to believe that enshitifying everything will eventually lead to failure because sucks for us. It does suck for us. But I'm not convinced that karma is coming for them.
marcus_holmes 1mo ago
So if I make $0.10 of profit, all my decisions are validated? What if we knew that Maccas could have made $20 billion, but ignoring qualitative data reduced their profits to $8.563 billion. Do those decisions still look smart?
cma 1mo ago
Still doesn't look like it is hurting them, but to put it in perspective that's a 4% increase in profit, while 2025 inflation was around 2.5%. Closer to a 1.5% gain in real terms.

lkey 1mo ago

Spirit of Capital Accumulation be praised! May 'annual profit' continue to be the only measure that has mattered, does matter, or will ever matter to those that bask in the radiance of perpetual earning growth!

wvenable 1mo ago
The large multi-national corporation known as "McDonald's" should care about its family, friends, and personal fulfillment instead?
- valleyer 1mo ago
  Yes. The people that make up that corporation should care about their fellow man (family, friends) and should take pride in making good things (personal fulfillment). We are allowed to pierce the corporate veil here.
  - wvenable 1mo ago
    Who say's they don't? How does this compare to what you do for a living?
    - johnnyanmac 1mo ago
      >Who say's they don't? Their workers, customers, and probably some local governments. They might even say it themselves at times. > How does this compare to what you do for a living? I make video games. There's always some sausage but I like to think I'm helping to bring joy and spark creativity, not simply make a billionaire richer. Given my lack of full time work, I'm at least sure these last few years I'm not doing the latter directly.
- dylan604 1mo ago
  Really think about it for a second; $8.5 billion in profit. That's an insane amount of money. How many companies with that kind of profit are actively dodging taxes from aggressive accounting, getting deals with local governments, or any other way? Not that the government would spend the extra tax revenue wisely. Instead, what if they took $1 billion of that to increase the pay of the lowest earning employees significantly while not increase the highest earners at all, or paying 100% of health care (medical, dental, vision, and mental), or any of the other things to help improve employee relationships. Then, start focusing on the external things that could be directly improved by taking less profit to improve things for those so much is taken. That's still $7.5 billion in profit.
  - wvenable 1mo ago
    > How many companies with that kind of profit are actively dodging taxes from aggressive accounting, getting deals with local governments, or any other way? I don't think it's fair to imply that McDonald's is doing anything shady. They have over 2 million workers (although not directly, it's a franchise model). They make a lot of profit but, proportional to the total workforce, it's about average. Hardly something to be outraged about. If you spread $1 billion evenly among two million workers, that's about $500 per employee per year. That is roughly 25 cents an hour for a full-time worker. Paying 100% health care would be several billion dollars. The underlying implication here is whether companies should make any profit at all. If the amount of profit allowed is non-zero, what is the correct number? And if there is a correct number, what do you propose to do about it?
    - lovich 1mo ago
      The average American, which McDonald’s workers are on the low end side, can’t handle a 500 dollar emergency. 500 dollars a year to every worker would make a material difference in most of their lives.
      - wvenable 1mo ago
        Ok. Lets do it. Tell me how?
- lkey 1mo ago
  You may have no memory of it, but there was a time when many American corporations had different, broader values. The structure of the present is not necessary or inevitable.
  - wvenable 1mo ago
    Did they really have broader values or did they just not have the technical sophistication to optimize their operation to this level? Where "values" just a substitute for more limited information? I think computers have made the structure of the present inevitable.
    - lesuorac 1mo ago
      Imo a bit of both. The founders [1] of mcdonalds probably did care about say cheaply providing people with enjoyable food. But I would bet soon after they sold [2] the company the actual values changed and definitely a bunch of CEOs down the road the guy put in charge is there for shareholder return. I personally don't think it's computers. It's unfettered corperatization. Stop giving companies corporate charters to "do all business activities allowed by X state" and instead give them more narrow charters. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_and_Maurice_McDonald https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_and_Maurice_McDonald [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc
      - wvenable 1mo ago
        Richard and Maurice McDonald had a small business that almost certainly wouldn't even be around today if they didn't sell to Ray Kroc. The McDonald's we know is a corporation. Corporatization is the process of turning government agencies, public services, or non-business organization into corporations. A more broad interpretation would be applying corporate philosophy to non-corporate things. McDonald's is already a corporation -- corporatization doesn't apply. If you don't want corporations to be corporate; I don't what to tell you!
        johnnyanmac 1mo ago

enquirewithin 1mo ago

Meaningless. The correct question is: how much more or less would they make if they were applying some other philosophy? At least in the context of this conversation. And, an increase in profit of $340 million across 13,882 stores (in the US) is less impressive. And presumably that $8.563 billion is McDonalds corporate and the franchisees didn’t see all of that gain.

wvenable 1mo ago
This is meaningless because it's entirely hypothetical. If McDonald's is only looking at quantitative data the "bad outcome" hasn't come for them. It seems quite successful in fact (especially in these tough economic times). Maybe if leads to a massive failure we can come back and revisit this but for now, based on facts, it's working just fine for them. People like to believe that enshitifying everything will eventually lead to failure because sucks for us. It does suck for us. But I'm not convinced that karma is coming for them.

marcus_holmes 1mo ago

So if I make $0.10 of profit, all my decisions are validated? What if we knew that Maccas could have made $20 billion, but ignoring qualitative data reduced their profits to $8.563 billion. Do those decisions still look smart?

cma 1mo ago

Still doesn't look like it is hurting them, but to put it in perspective that's a 4% increase in profit, while 2025 inflation was around 2.5%. Closer to a 1.5% gain in real terms.