8 ms·

From reading the article, it sounds like an enforced standardisation? Like, asking for account age bracket and then having a standard API to ask for it would be

From reading the article, it sounds like an enforced standardisation? Like, asking for account age bracket and then having a standard API to ask for it would be easy, right? Just write it to a root owned `~/.age-bracket` for each user or something (obviously something better). It's a feature many apps implement in all kinds of ways already, especially games and social media stuff, so this, in theory, just makes it easier and consistent? I'm against leaking our kids ages, and all the privacy and other concerns as much as anyone, but are we just getting overly angry too quickly on this one? I get that it's a slippery slope too.

ares623 1mo ago
It passes responsibility and accountability from the large platforms to the open-source communities and to parents who are most likely tech illiterate. Facebook, etc. can wash their hands when they "accidentally" serve gambling ads (or whatever) to children and say "well it's not our fault the parent has the laptop misconfigured" It's classic blaming the victim.
- ronsor 1mo ago
  I disagree. The parents are the ones who should be supervising. The work should not be pushed off to OSS devs or random website operators. Facebook is bad, but I'd rather deal with one Facebook than kill 1000 normal sites with bad legislation.
  - defrost 1mo ago
    > The parents are the ones who should be supervising. Ok. When Alice & Bob come home from school what steps should every parent take to supervise A&B's phone and device usage over the past 48 hours? Internet history, of course - for all the browsers, including those hidden away? But what if the logs are wiped or the second BraveFoxChrome installation isn't obvious? Must every parent have an IT degree? What if the parents are very good plumbers and car mechanics, should they also be expert in software design and installation?
    - isdononthephone 1mo ago
      > What if the parents are very good plumbers and car mechanics, should they also be expert in software design and installation? You know who else are not experts in software design and installation? Fossil politicians and slimy bureaucrats. Name one public sector state or local website that isn't utter garbage and a nightmare to use. Go ahead I'll wait. They need to get their sticky donut-eating fingers out of my personal computer.
      - forestrywat 1mo ago
        I renew my tabs online a few times a year. Site is state wide and works great. Take like five minutes and it's super manageable. Seattle city light works well and has a solid outage map when there's bad weather. capitol.wa.gov is really informative and easy to use and looks nice. Is three examples enough? You only asked for one. But I figured a few extra would help you.
      - psd1 1mo ago
        Gov.uk
      - lambdaone 1mo ago
        This is a really weak argument. High-quality government websites exist, most notably the British gov.uk system. All this is beside the point - the current age verification proposals are wrong, and attempt to solve the wrong problem in ways that look very much as if they are primarily intended for surveillance rather than child protection. 'Child safe' internet access by default with a very low bar to let adults enable their devices to access the public internet is the solution. The UK's mobile providers already offer this by default - all you have to do is to call your network provider and ask for the restrictions to be turned off, and you have full internet access. Any legislation to create 'child safe' filtering should mandate that vendors provide ways for adults to turn the filtering off, easily, quickly and no questions asked - and that it should be viewed as the responsible moral default for adults to have full access to the world in order to be able to exercise their responsibilities as citizens, not some sort of option for degenerates. Whether you do this device side or network side is a technical detail. The other sane way to do this - and what we should have done from the start, instead of providing kids with full access to the adult world by default - would be to have created 'child safe' devices to provide children with filtered access. Parents could then be in charge of whether they want their children to have that access and at what age. However, that boat has sailed.
- hackinthebochs 1mo ago
  Why exactly are some of you guys advocating for platforms to have increased responsibility for verifying the age of their users? Why exactly do you want platforms to collect government IDs or contract with third party ID brokers? How is that an improvement over the user agent attesting to the age of the user?
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    It's liber-contrarianism, they hate when the government does stuff so they instinctively oppose it even though the opposite is worse.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Isn't that a good design though? And it isn't blaming anyone, it's a design.

ares623 1mo ago

It passes responsibility and accountability from the large platforms to the open-source communities and to parents who are most likely tech illiterate. Facebook, etc. can wash their hands when they "accidentally" serve gambling ads (or whatever) to children and say "well it's not our fault the parent has the laptop misconfigured" It's classic blaming the victim.

ronsor 1mo ago
I disagree. The parents are the ones who should be supervising. The work should not be pushed off to OSS devs or random website operators. Facebook is bad, but I'd rather deal with one Facebook than kill 1000 normal sites with bad legislation.
- defrost 1mo ago
  > The parents are the ones who should be supervising. Ok. When Alice & Bob come home from school what steps should every parent take to supervise A&B's phone and device usage over the past 48 hours? Internet history, of course - for all the browsers, including those hidden away? But what if the logs are wiped or the second BraveFoxChrome installation isn't obvious? Must every parent have an IT degree? What if the parents are very good plumbers and car mechanics, should they also be expert in software design and installation?
  - isdononthephone 1mo ago
    > What if the parents are very good plumbers and car mechanics, should they also be expert in software design and installation? You know who else are not experts in software design and installation? Fossil politicians and slimy bureaucrats. Name one public sector state or local website that isn't utter garbage and a nightmare to use. Go ahead I'll wait. They need to get their sticky donut-eating fingers out of my personal computer.
    - forestrywat 1mo ago
      I renew my tabs online a few times a year. Site is state wide and works great. Take like five minutes and it's super manageable. Seattle city light works well and has a solid outage map when there's bad weather. capitol.wa.gov is really informative and easy to use and looks nice. Is three examples enough? You only asked for one. But I figured a few extra would help you.
    - psd1 1mo ago
      Gov.uk
    - lambdaone 1mo ago
      This is a really weak argument. High-quality government websites exist, most notably the British gov.uk system. All this is beside the point - the current age verification proposals are wrong, and attempt to solve the wrong problem in ways that look very much as if they are primarily intended for surveillance rather than child protection. 'Child safe' internet access by default with a very low bar to let adults enable their devices to access the public internet is the solution. The UK's mobile providers already offer this by default - all you have to do is to call your network provider and ask for the restrictions to be turned off, and you have full internet access. Any legislation to create 'child safe' filtering should mandate that vendors provide ways for adults to turn the filtering off, easily, quickly and no questions asked - and that it should be viewed as the responsible moral default for adults to have full access to the world in order to be able to exercise their responsibilities as citizens, not some sort of option for degenerates. Whether you do this device side or network side is a technical detail. The other sane way to do this - and what we should have done from the start, instead of providing kids with full access to the adult world by default - would be to have created 'child safe' devices to provide children with filtered access. Parents could then be in charge of whether they want their children to have that access and at what age. However, that boat has sailed.
hackinthebochs 1mo ago
Why exactly are some of you guys advocating for platforms to have increased responsibility for verifying the age of their users? Why exactly do you want platforms to collect government IDs or contract with third party ID brokers? How is that an improvement over the user agent attesting to the age of the user?
- inigyou 1mo ago
  It's liber-contrarianism, they hate when the government does stuff so they instinctively oppose it even though the opposite is worse.
inigyou 1mo ago
Isn't that a good design though? And it isn't blaming anyone, it's a design.