5 ms·

just don't want to. it would be nonsensical to get it since all functionality that was provided by ATMs in pre-mobile age mono provides only via an app. ATMs lo

by bpavuk 1mo ago

just don't want to. it would be nonsensical to get it since all functionality that was provided by ATMs in pre-mobile age mono provides only via an app. ATMs log in through app and only exist to accept cash, so I can't use it as a "secondary authentication method" in ATMs or check my balance outside the app.

Underphil 1mo ago
Everyone's situation is different I suppose. But I do tire when people choose the convenience over the freedom. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I hear it often enough.
- bpavuk 1mo ago
  well, me being in Ukraine also means readiness to move out of my house whenever the need (or opportunity to escape abroad! I hate this war and kidnap-conscription) may arise. it's as much convenience as it is preparedness
  - DaSHacka 1mo ago
    Do you not also keep your ID on you at all times? That's why I don't mind carrying around plastic cards, they just go in my wallet with my ID and a small amount of cash anyway. Even if I was willing to use GPay, I don't like the possibility of my phone dying locking me out of my apartment and preventing me from paying for things.
    - bpavuk 1mo ago
      Diia and plastic are treated equally valid within Ukraine, but losing my ID is going to deal more damage than losing my phone. so no, I don't carry ID with myself at all times - why when I can just scan the QR code and keep the "real stuff" locked at home?
    - NamTaf 1mo ago
      I do not keep ID on me at all times. I dont even own a wallet any more. Moving to GrapheneOS and not having virtual cards for contactless payment has been struggle, not going go lie.
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        well fix that? start carrying your bank card everywhere you carry your phone? There are even phone cases with card pockets in them if you want to look like you're swiping your phone at the terminal.
      - velocity3230 1mo ago
        It's possible. I run GrapheneOS and pay with it via NFC. The issue is finding the right provider and app. In the UK we have Curve and, I believe, plenty of European banks have apps that work natively too.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Which part of having all your money locked behind six technological barriers requiring pervasive infrastructure to be working is preparedness? Preparedness is having several thousand euros in cash.
    - bpavuk 1mo ago
      everyday transactions and subscriptions still go through banks and apps. also, > Preparedness is having several thousand euros in cash. totally agree. not that I, much like any average Ukrainian, have more than €400 behind my name, but I agree, and by that definition only the wealthiest ~10% are truly prepared
- ymolodtsov 1mo ago
  What do you suggest using this freedom for?
  - xethos 1mo ago
    In this context? Being able to put your foot down and say fuck Google, I will no longer put up with the anti-user direction of their platform, and switch to something outside the duopoly
  - specproc 1mo ago
    Not being surveilled, sold-to and manipulated by _my_ hardware.
- vladms 1mo ago
  I wonder if thinking in a binary way (convenience over freedom) is a good description. I bought mobile devices that I could root over the ones that I couldn't. I favor companies that are less shitty. I preferred Linux over Windows as main OS even when Linux was harder to use (now I think in fact might be easier). But life is made of trade-offs and I did not see particularly good arguments of why Android is "that bad". You can root some devices and one can even avoid lots of services if you don't like Google (maps, mail, etc.) - which I also do. So for me Android manages to stay in a unstable equilibrium : good for what I need, trustful enough for some stuff (money), not more spying that others (GSM towers), some levels of customization if you really want. Could it go "evil"? Sure, but considering what happens in the world, I am more worried my neighbors would have idiotic ideas than the fact that Google will be so evil.
- CalRobert 1mo ago
  We chose that when we stopped using cash.
  - mdp2021 1mo ago
    > stopped using cash You stopped using cash? It is one of the most insane things I ever heard. You transactions are tracked, I assume? The rule in the eu (PSD2) is that a dozen private/public/hybrid/other databases, of unclear substantial identity, will record your transactions. And what if you had a an infrastructural shortage? No transactions then? How can people think of "cashless society" as something outside a dystopia?
    - CalRobert 1mo ago
      We agree. I meant in the aggregate. Cash is very rare here in NL at least.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Yeah especially in Ukraine. An active war zone. Russia bombs the power plant again and you can't buy groceries?
    - emj 1mo ago
      Because cash sucks. Haven't used cash in 10 years. I agree it is problematic. I guess a high trust society enables it NL and SE are such places.
      - mdp2021 1mo ago
        > a high trust society That is in fact a highly naïve, direly naïve society: (*) the data is not contained into national boundaries by law already, and (*) you cannot know what will happen to the country and society in n years time.
    - WhyNotHugo 1mo ago
      A great deal of shops in the Netherlands don't take cash. Some didn't before 2020, but during 2020 the trend accelerated, and many shops stopped taking cash. Aside from hygiene, it's also easier to deal with safety for the store (i.e.: nobody can steal the cash register). The supermarket in my neighbourhood has ~30 self-checkout machines. Only one of them takes cash. The human-checkout also takes cash, but is usually closed.
inigyou 1mo ago
> just don't want to. then it's all your own fault, isn't it?

by bpavuk 1mo ago

Underphil 1mo ago

Everyone's situation is different I suppose. But I do tire when people choose the convenience over the freedom. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I hear it often enough.

bpavuk 1mo ago
well, me being in Ukraine also means readiness to move out of my house whenever the need (or opportunity to escape abroad! I hate this war and kidnap-conscription) may arise. it's as much convenience as it is preparedness
- DaSHacka 1mo ago
  Do you not also keep your ID on you at all times? That's why I don't mind carrying around plastic cards, they just go in my wallet with my ID and a small amount of cash anyway. Even if I was willing to use GPay, I don't like the possibility of my phone dying locking me out of my apartment and preventing me from paying for things.
  - bpavuk 1mo ago
    Diia and plastic are treated equally valid within Ukraine, but losing my ID is going to deal more damage than losing my phone. so no, I don't carry ID with myself at all times - why when I can just scan the QR code and keep the "real stuff" locked at home?
  - NamTaf 1mo ago
    I do not keep ID on me at all times. I dont even own a wallet any more. Moving to GrapheneOS and not having virtual cards for contactless payment has been struggle, not going go lie.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      well fix that? start carrying your bank card everywhere you carry your phone? There are even phone cases with card pockets in them if you want to look like you're swiping your phone at the terminal.
    - velocity3230 1mo ago
      It's possible. I run GrapheneOS and pay with it via NFC. The issue is finding the right provider and app. In the UK we have Curve and, I believe, plenty of European banks have apps that work natively too.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Which part of having all your money locked behind six technological barriers requiring pervasive infrastructure to be working is preparedness? Preparedness is having several thousand euros in cash.
  - bpavuk 1mo ago
    everyday transactions and subscriptions still go through banks and apps. also, > Preparedness is having several thousand euros in cash. totally agree. not that I, much like any average Ukrainian, have more than €400 behind my name, but I agree, and by that definition only the wealthiest ~10% are truly prepared
ymolodtsov 1mo ago
What do you suggest using this freedom for?
- xethos 1mo ago
  In this context? Being able to put your foot down and say fuck Google, I will no longer put up with the anti-user direction of their platform, and switch to something outside the duopoly
- specproc 1mo ago
  Not being surveilled, sold-to and manipulated by _my_ hardware.
vladms 1mo ago
I wonder if thinking in a binary way (convenience over freedom) is a good description. I bought mobile devices that I could root over the ones that I couldn't. I favor companies that are less shitty. I preferred Linux over Windows as main OS even when Linux was harder to use (now I think in fact might be easier). But life is made of trade-offs and I did not see particularly good arguments of why Android is "that bad". You can root some devices and one can even avoid lots of services if you don't like Google (maps, mail, etc.) - which I also do. So for me Android manages to stay in a unstable equilibrium : good for what I need, trustful enough for some stuff (money), not more spying that others (GSM towers), some levels of customization if you really want. Could it go "evil"? Sure, but considering what happens in the world, I am more worried my neighbors would have idiotic ideas than the fact that Google will be so evil.
CalRobert 1mo ago
We chose that when we stopped using cash.
- mdp2021 1mo ago
  > stopped using cash You stopped using cash? It is one of the most insane things I ever heard. You transactions are tracked, I assume? The rule in the eu (PSD2) is that a dozen private/public/hybrid/other databases, of unclear substantial identity, will record your transactions. And what if you had a an infrastructural shortage? No transactions then? How can people think of "cashless society" as something outside a dystopia?
  - CalRobert 1mo ago
    We agree. I meant in the aggregate. Cash is very rare here in NL at least.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Yeah especially in Ukraine. An active war zone. Russia bombs the power plant again and you can't buy groceries?
  - emj 1mo ago
    Because cash sucks. Haven't used cash in 10 years. I agree it is problematic. I guess a high trust society enables it NL and SE are such places.
    - mdp2021 1mo ago
      > a high trust society That is in fact a highly naïve, direly naïve society: (*) the data is not contained into national boundaries by law already, and (*) you cannot know what will happen to the country and society in n years time.
  - WhyNotHugo 1mo ago
    A great deal of shops in the Netherlands don't take cash. Some didn't before 2020, but during 2020 the trend accelerated, and many shops stopped taking cash. Aside from hygiene, it's also easier to deal with safety for the store (i.e.: nobody can steal the cash register). The supermarket in my neighbourhood has ~30 self-checkout machines. Only one of them takes cash. The human-checkout also takes cash, but is usually closed.

inigyou 1mo ago

> just don't want to. then it's all your own fault, isn't it?