5 ms·

What's wrong with just Android?

bpavuk 1mo ago
Google!
tester457 1mo ago
There's a powerlessness to using Android. It's difficult to just do things. Even windows feels more "free." Phone OSes are built like prisons. Ideally Android would let you drop into a real shell, without having to deal with android sandboxing. Regardless, I use termux and tasker to get my automations done.
- streb-lo 1mo ago
  Probably because carriers don't want a bunch of poorly secured devices on their networks.
  - dsr_ 1mo ago
    Counter-evidence: the Google Play Store, which is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And also malware.
    - armadyl 1mo ago
      Counter-evidence: Repos such as AUR That blast radius coupled with (non-Android) Linux's atrocious security is a far worse option
      - akimbostrawman 1mo ago
        >Repos such as AUR AUR isn't a traditional repository but more functions like a paste bin for package build scripts you have to go out of your way to enable and use at your own risk. It is not how actual Linux repositories work which are way more safe than google or even apple app store.
        jolmg 1mo ago
        > way more safe than google or even apple app store. Probably because of how people submit directly to the commercial app stores and the app store staff are expected to accept them as long as no malware or other problems are detected. Such problems are generally explicitly listed on Terms of Service and app submitters may be able to dispute rejections. Meaning problems generally need to be concrete and justifiable. Also, because of the sheer number, problems are likely scanned for, rather than each app being personally considered by a developer. FOSS distro package repo maintainers generally don't have any such pressures. They get their absolute pick of what to include from the wild, only taking as much as they're able to handle. Also, distro repo maintainers handle the building from the source code themselves, while app store apps are closed source to the app stores. Their ability to inspect apps is very limited.
  - gruez 1mo ago
    They don't seem to put much effort in proactively blocking residential VPNs though?
  - lytedev 1mo ago
    Can't you get USB modems and cram a SIM inside? Are carrier networks really more scary than the internet at large?
  - wao0uuno 1mo ago
    If that was the reason then Windows laptops with WWAN wouldn't exist.
- Gander5739 1mo ago
  You can root it if you really want (and if the bootloader is unlocked)
- smalltorch 1mo ago
  What are the main things you can do in a real shell versus termux for instance? It's a pretty big sandbox in my experience.
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
  - seba_dos1 1mo ago
    If something bothers me with my phone's UI or if I want to change the behavior of some system service, I can do e.g. "apt source phosh", patch it and then "apt build-dep .", "dpkg-buildpackage -b" and "apt install" it right on the phone. I can even send the patch for upstreaming from there. How easy it is to do an equivalent thing on Android?
    - jolmg 1mo ago
      UI-wise, termux can run Xorg and you can modify the interface you use there. You're right about services. Can't run systemd, but they can just run the service programs in the background (e.g. they can call sshd directly). Regarding modifying programs, maybe not that convenient directly on termux, but if it's rooted, you may be able to run docker and modify them in a debian environment. The neat thing about non-Android phones with respect to what you mention is that you can do those things just like how you would on any other computer, without having to worry about Android workarounds that may one day stop working via an update.
      - seba_dos1 1mo ago
        "interface you use there" - yes, with a strong accent on "there". Sure, you can even run a x86 emulator in a browser and run anything you want there as long as it's performant enough, but that's a very different thing to actually controlling the OS you run - and even if you do happen to be in some control, modifying anything in Android without reflashing the entire thing is still a massive PITA. And of course you're not gonna pass the attestations once you assert the control anymore, so why not just ditch Android completely at that point?
exe34 1mo ago
How do you install kde?
- TheRoque 1mo ago
  With Termux: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/s/1DUmyqTYKJ https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/s/1DUmyqTYKJ
Kim_Bruning 1mo ago
I don't have control over my own device.
nsonha 1mo ago
people shouldn't have to buy a mac mini to run openclaw, they already have an always-on computer, they just can't install anything computationally useful with it
- esseph 1mo ago
  People are still running openclaw?
  - nsonha 1mo ago
    that's just an example, codex app-server/claude remote-control or whatever
pixel_popping 1mo ago
doesn't support btrfs snapshots.
hommelix 1mo ago
Currently Google is planning to lock down the Android platform to only Google Play store software repository. See https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/ for more info.

Google!

There's a powerlessness to using Android. It's difficult to just do things. Even windows feels more "free." Phone OSes are built like prisons. Ideally Android would let you drop into a real shell, without having to deal with android sandboxing. Regardless, I use termux and tasker to get my automations done.

streb-lo 1mo ago
Probably because carriers don't want a bunch of poorly secured devices on their networks.
- dsr_ 1mo ago
  Counter-evidence: the Google Play Store, which is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And also malware.
  - armadyl 1mo ago
    Counter-evidence: Repos such as AUR That blast radius coupled with (non-Android) Linux's atrocious security is a far worse option
    - akimbostrawman 1mo ago
      >Repos such as AUR AUR isn't a traditional repository but more functions like a paste bin for package build scripts you have to go out of your way to enable and use at your own risk. It is not how actual Linux repositories work which are way more safe than google or even apple app store.
      - jolmg 1mo ago
        > way more safe than google or even apple app store. Probably because of how people submit directly to the commercial app stores and the app store staff are expected to accept them as long as no malware or other problems are detected. Such problems are generally explicitly listed on Terms of Service and app submitters may be able to dispute rejections. Meaning problems generally need to be concrete and justifiable. Also, because of the sheer number, problems are likely scanned for, rather than each app being personally considered by a developer. FOSS distro package repo maintainers generally don't have any such pressures. They get their absolute pick of what to include from the wild, only taking as much as they're able to handle. Also, distro repo maintainers handle the building from the source code themselves, while app store apps are closed source to the app stores. Their ability to inspect apps is very limited.
- gruez 1mo ago
  They don't seem to put much effort in proactively blocking residential VPNs though?
- lytedev 1mo ago
  Can't you get USB modems and cram a SIM inside? Are carrier networks really more scary than the internet at large?
- wao0uuno 1mo ago
  If that was the reason then Windows laptops with WWAN wouldn't exist.
Gander5739 1mo ago
You can root it if you really want (and if the bootloader is unlocked)
smalltorch 1mo ago
What are the main things you can do in a real shell versus termux for instance? It's a pretty big sandbox in my experience.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- seba_dos1 1mo ago
  If something bothers me with my phone's UI or if I want to change the behavior of some system service, I can do e.g. "apt source phosh", patch it and then "apt build-dep .", "dpkg-buildpackage -b" and "apt install" it right on the phone. I can even send the patch for upstreaming from there. How easy it is to do an equivalent thing on Android?
  - jolmg 1mo ago
    UI-wise, termux can run Xorg and you can modify the interface you use there. You're right about services. Can't run systemd, but they can just run the service programs in the background (e.g. they can call sshd directly). Regarding modifying programs, maybe not that convenient directly on termux, but if it's rooted, you may be able to run docker and modify them in a debian environment. The neat thing about non-Android phones with respect to what you mention is that you can do those things just like how you would on any other computer, without having to worry about Android workarounds that may one day stop working via an update.
    - seba_dos1 1mo ago
      "interface you use there" - yes, with a strong accent on "there". Sure, you can even run a x86 emulator in a browser and run anything you want there as long as it's performant enough, but that's a very different thing to actually controlling the OS you run - and even if you do happen to be in some control, modifying anything in Android without reflashing the entire thing is still a massive PITA. And of course you're not gonna pass the attestations once you assert the control anymore, so why not just ditch Android completely at that point?

exe34 1mo ago

How do you install kde?

TheRoque 1mo ago
With Termux: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/s/1DUmyqTYKJ https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/s/1DUmyqTYKJ

Kim_Bruning 1mo ago

I don't have control over my own device.

nsonha 1mo ago

people shouldn't have to buy a mac mini to run openclaw, they already have an always-on computer, they just can't install anything computationally useful with it

esseph 1mo ago
People are still running openclaw?
- nsonha 1mo ago
  that's just an example, codex app-server/claude remote-control or whatever

pixel_popping 1mo ago

doesn't support btrfs snapshots.

hommelix 1mo ago

Currently Google is planning to lock down the Android platform to only Google Play store software repository. See https://keepandroidopen.org/ https://keepandroidopen.org/ for more info.