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Offsite retreats seem like a bad idea in general, I've never been to one where I felt the team or company worked together better afterwards, and I've seen some
by Johnny555 2mo ago
Offsite retreats seem like a bad idea in general, I've never been to one where I felt the team or company worked together better afterwards, and I've seen some spectacularly bad results... like the time the facilitator tried to get to the bottom of tensions between the CTO and head of sales (the classic problem of "Engineering isn't shipping features fast enough" and "Sales is selling features before even consulting with engineering"). The discussion quickly turned shockingly personal and within a month after the retreat both the CTO and head of sales quit. At least they called an end to the retreat early.
- sidewndr46 2mo agothis could pretty much be it's own editorial, if you're feeling journalistic
- adastra22 2mo agoSounds like it was productive!
- paxys 2mo agoI agree, unironically. Not all workplace tensions can be resolved amicably. Often the only solution is for one of the parties to go. The sooner it happens, the better.
- sublinear 2mo agoNo it wasn't. Those kinds of conflicts always have blame for the rest of the execs too.
- solatic 2mo agoI might be reading too closely / projecting, but... Sounds like an ineffectual CEO who didn't understand that his role, like any manager, is to help resolve interpersonal conflict between his subordinates that they're having trouble working out themselves. Outsourcing that to a random coordinator reeks of conflict-avoidant behavior. That they both quit tells me that neither one thought the other was the sole problem they were dealing with.
- protocolture 2mo agoNot one but 2 managers removed. Amazing result.
- jitl 2mo agoi’ve been to a bunch and all resulted in a big increase in trust between teams especially between tech and sales. i mended a few poor relationships at the last notion one in maui, made some lifelong friends. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe for every shitty one there’s 2 that are great
- gkoberger 2mo agoI feel like our offsites, especially in a post-COVID remote world, tend to improve communication and productivity. People get to know their coworkers, and feel much more comfortable working cross-functionality. I've had some bad experiences, of course, but overall I've found it to be incredibly worth it.
- annzabelle 2mo agoI think there's a difference between getting employees who work remotely from each other into the same room for a week, and a "retreat" offsite where pseudo-theraputic approaches are used to try to get employees to open up or bond socially.
- gkoberger 2mo agoI think “retreat” is used pretty colloquially and doesn’t imply pseudo-therapy.
- annzabelle 2mo agoFrom the article: > “Vulnerability-Trust exercise” From your parent comment: > the facilitator tried to get to the bottom of tensions between the CTO and head of sales I was referring specifically to these sorts of things. Retreat doesn't always include this, but sometimes it does, and when it does it's a stupid idea.
- lukan 2mo ago"Retreat doesn't always include this, but sometimes it does, and when it does it's a stupid idea." Unless maybe done by professionals? I never have been to one such retreat, but I know human conflicts and I know what difference it can make, if skilled people can mediate.
- Swenrekcah 2mo agoSuch professional therapy should probably be administered privately and during the course of a regular workday.
- foobarian 2mo agoReminds me of that super cringy one that Wizards of the Coast did early on
- andersonpico 2mo agoWhich one? I couldn't find anything in google
- foobarian 2mo agoPart 1: https://www.salon.com/2001/03/23/wizards/ https://www.salon.com/2001/03/23/wizards/ Part 2: https://www.salon.com/2001/03/26/wizards_part2/ https://www.salon.com/2001/03/26/wizards_part2/
- kube-system 2mo agoRetreats like this just concentrate the social dynamics of the people the organization has hired. I think people’s experience with them is directly correlated with the caliber of people you work with. All of the stupid shit I’ve seen happen at these events have been done by people who I don’t miss working with Maybe a retreat would be a good 3rd round interview.
- crossroadsguy 2mo agoThese often happened on weekends and I used to simply ask my manager about the days off for this and answer often was a shocked face and a no. So I rarely attended those.
- em3rgent0rdr 2mo agoWork should be time-bounded. Weekends should generally be off limit, even if it supposed to be a "fun" work thing.
- jraby3 2mo agoWe have one annually for my company. It's at a casino, with a few scheduled meals and some activities (video game room, trivia done by a professional company). It's voluntary and employees are allowed to bring their spouse. I think it helps a lot with communication, especially since we are a distributed team and most peoplr don't see each other. But it's hard for me to know for sure, no one tells the owners the truth. It is voluntary and almost everyone attends. I think most people think of it as a free vacation.
- happymellon 2mo agoI guess it's a personal thing, but I don't see how everyone going to a casino is a great idea, or developing team relationships.
- simtel20 2mo agoI would guess that the casino is a relatively cheap space that can do entertainment and conferences and food, and it's not being chosen for the gambling aspects
- happymellon 2mo agoI get what they offer, I guess I just don't see that as team building.
- eudamoniac 2mo agoHaving fun with people in general is team building. Amusement park would do the same thing. It doesn't have to be any special format.
- jraby3 2mo agoI wouldn't call it team building. I just think of it as a reminder that we are all friends that we all have families and struggles. We're all human and doing our best. It's at a casino because it's near our facility, has conference rooms, event spaces, entertainment, and the weather doesn't matter. Sometimes some people sit at a table and play while hanging out and that's fine. But it's not really about drinking or gambling. Just having a little fun together and getting to know each other and our +1s on a more personal level.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- energy123 2mo agoHR justifying their own bloat. The staff and shareholders pay the price. Agency conflict of interest. The fault is with the CEO for not getting HR in line.
- acdha 2mo agoHR does what senior management tells them to do. The C-level loves it when you blame HR rather than them.
- alanfranz 2mo agoLooks like a bad offsite handling, both in your case and linked article. I feel that offsites work best when you let people interact on their own schedule, pace and topics. Trying to force hands via a lot of activities can kind of backfire. Relationships happen. They are not programmatically built.
- gspr 2mo agoWorks well where I work. Some ground rules to help are: * Do the bulk during work hours. * Be 100% accepting of people who don't wanna spend free time on it. Or compensate. * Add in loads of general fun. * Let the employees be in charge of what constitutes fun. * Go light on the actual work. * Plan well ahead, respect people's own schedules.
- lostlogin 2mo agoFilm it and you have a Netflix series. It sounds better than most reality TV.
- itake 2mo agoI worked remotely with only seeing my team a few times per year. During our last offsite, I looked around the 80+ person room and realized that I just don't enjoy working with any of these people.
- tesnorindian 2mo ago+1. I too feel the same thing after 3 years of remote work. Sometimes I even feel that my colleagues are way more dumb than they appeared to look in online.
- Cthulhu_ 2mo agoYeah that was me after 3 years during a company over the panny-D, I just had nothing in common with any of the people working there, the company didn't seem to have much ambitions, definitely did not realize they needed 5-10 more people to do the work they wanted to be done.
- 72deluxe 2mo agoI wonder if we should "enjoy" it, or whether it's just that we can't relate to the other people in the slightest when in person? I work from home and very very very rarely do I go into the office, but when I do it's quite pleasant and all but I am glad to be free of the social environment; I am there to solve things and get stuff fixed and working, not make new friends. I don't mean that nastily - I mean I go to work to work; I don't go to socialise. Some people cannot differentiate these two concepts.
- teeray 2mo ago> I wonder if we should "enjoy" it, or whether it's just that we can't relate to the other people in the slightest when in person? You should “enjoy” making things with those other people. You should have cohesive competence with each other that enables you to crush out the work that comes your collective way. You don’t have to “enjoy” the other person’s company, in a would-I-have-a-frosty-beverage-with-them way. You might! These are not mutually exclusive, but they are also not required to be simultaneous properties held of effective work relationships.
- javier2 2mo agoMy experience is that its usually good for communications and cooperation, but not nearly as helpful as management envision.
- pif 2mo ago> classic problem of "Engineering isn't shipping features fast enough" and "Sales is selling features before even consulting with engineering" That's not a problem, in the sense that there was never any possible debate: if I make a promise on your behalf, I am a di*k.
- ncphillips 2mo agoIt’s a mix. Partially a systems problem. We used to have that problem, then we changed the way work is selected. Sales is part of the process, so they’re forced to see all the things we could build and help decide which ones were saying no to. They still promise things occasionally but they hedge a lot more now. And our teams delivery rate has increased dramatically because we’re not getting yanked around all the time.
- thmsths 2mo agoThis sounds like a successful implementation of the conjoined triangles of success :)
- yencabulator 2mo agoSales is welcome to build the products they're selling while engineering builds the ones on the roadmap.
- riffraff 2mo agoI had very positive experiences with some offsites, where the people 1) had fun 2) felt closer and able to interact more easily with each other (especially when working in a remote environment it's harder to grow closer) But, like everything else, not all people enjoy them. I have seen people find obvious excuses to avoid them.
- Cthulhu_ 2mo agoI think that ultimately it can help make a better company/team/etc, BUT you need a program / agenda and people that know what they're doing - can't just make it a bro fest. Alcohol can be fine, but you will discover some people change when drunk, not always for the better. We had a few incidents at a previous company I worked for (involving people getting removed by bouncers or the whole company being banned from a venue - but tbf there was a lot of barf in the hallways and the like), but I gotta say, the people at the one I'm at now are all very conservative and mature when it comes to drinking and offsite behaviour. From what I know so far, anyway.
- kilroy123 2mo agoI'll offer another antidote. Every single place I have ever worked at that had such retreats had a big layoff within ~6 months. It's like the CEO or execs see there are a lot of problems and think this will magically fix all the "issues". It doesn't, so they turn to the next solution. Just fire a bunch of staff and start over.
- ljm 2mo agoProbably see it as the easy way out because actually bringing about change in a culture that is already entrenched is hard work and they don't have the mettle for it. Or don't trust the org to be on board with it. Easier to just do a reset instead of thinking about how one might bring effective change over a reasonable period of time.
- fg137 2mo agoWe have a "retreat" every other year or so at a certain resort across the country. What happens is that the company flies everyone there + including overseas employees) do 3 days of meeting plus 1 day of free time before flying everyone back. 2 employees share a room, no family or friends allowed even if you want to pay for your hotel rooms out of the pocket. I don't see any point of this. Such a waste of time and jet fuel. I would rather have those meetings at worksite and get a nice discount for the resort and go there with my own schedule and on my own terms.
- BrandoElFollito 2mo agoWhen I was younger and eager for retreats I saw one turn really bad. The facilitator suggested volunteers to sit in the middle and people to be open about their bad and good things. Oh man, this went south quickly after a few beers, the retreat was shortened, some people never talked to others anymore and the whole team broke apart. The thing is that nobody was nasty, the first volounteers did nit give a fuck about what was told about them, so others took the step, the people sitting around git bolder (but still telling the truth) and at some point it all collapsed.