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Will this forever exist as a Fedora "remix". Or will we find the support in upstream so I can one day run Debian-based distro? I think the last time I used an

Will this forever exist as a Fedora "remix". Or will we find the support in upstream so I can one day run Debian-based distro? I think the last time I used an RPM-based distro was almost 2 decades ago.

mort96 3mo ago
They are upstreaming their patches, so upstream Linux will eventually get the necessary drivers. Though their kernel fork is (obviously) open source, so there's nothing stopping you from taking a Debian aarch64 roots, build your own Asahi kernel (or take the build from Fedora), and set up Debian on these machines with Debian yourself. Just requires some elbow grease. Or, if you find Ubuntu acceptable, there's Ubuntu Asahi: https://ubuntuasahi.org/ https://ubuntuasahi.org/ EDIT: After some googling I found this wiki article: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1 https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1
weikju 3mo ago
You can still run Arch, and Ubuntu Asahi also exists. (1) They’re working hard on upstreaming everything exactly so it’s easier for any distribution to be ported. 1- https://ubuntuasahi.org/ https://ubuntuasahi.org/
- hparadiz 3mo ago
  I wish more people on HN learned how to build their own kernel and run it. A distro is just window dressing and flavor.
  - awesomeusername 3mo ago
    There is a bit more to it on ARM I'm afraid. The device trees are complex and it feels to me it takes it out of the realm of 'anyone can and should do it'
    - jakogut 3mo ago
      Device trees are certainly less portable across hardware, and more difficult to create than just booting a generic kernel on a machine that supports ACPI. However, the device tree is shipped as part of the kernel, and as long as the bootloader correctly loads the DTB and kernel, it's no more difficult to swap out the userspace portion/rootfs than any other Linux system, generally.
MYEUHD 3mo ago
linux-asahi is available in Void Linux: https://voidlinux.org/download/#arm%20platforms https://voidlinux.org/download/#arm%20platforms It's a regular package of linux in the distro: https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcpkgs/linux-asahi https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcp...
realusername 3mo ago
Upstreaming something like this is a monumental task, even small changes can take ages. It will take a while.
- smith7018 3mo ago
  They've actually been focusing on upstreaming for what feels like 2 years now. It's really slowed down progress but it's important for the longevity of the project. They still have so much left to upstream but little by little it's happening
tensegrist 3mo ago
i've been using nixos on an m2 air for a year now, the kernel is enough
leenixx 3mo ago
The founder of asahi linux famously quit due to how hard it was to upstream patches. It’s not easy to deal with linus’ project.
- Grombobulous 3mo ago
  I can’t see that being a bad thing considering that the kernel is mandatory software in the Linux world. You would want to have high standards for what gets added.
  - gjvc 3mo ago
    "Disgusting" Linux sched_ext Source Code Restructured Following Complaint By Linus Torvalds - Phoronix https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Sched-Ext-Restructured https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Sched-Ext-Restructured
    - user_of_the_wek 3mo ago
      I mean, surely there is a more defensive way to communicate his preference, and the word disgusting is a bit unpolite. But still, does this really count as toxic behaviour?
  - nosioptar 3mo ago
    You should have high standards. Torvalds often crosses that line into outright toxicity. I've written a few kernel patches that I never tried to upstream for that reason.
    - dandellion 3mo ago
      You'll never be able to agree on where that line should go. First because there's a cultural component to it. I'm from Spain so I can only talk for myself, but while he uses rude language, nothing I've ever read from him ever seemed particularly offensive. And second because any activity involving a large group of people will need some amount of toxicity if only to prevent other toxic people from derailing it, and since nobody thinks of themselves as the one that is being toxic to the project, there will always be some friction. You might not like fevers either, but they are necessary for a functioning immune system.
jasoneckert 3mo ago
This comment made me smile, as my preference is opposite - I prefer RPM-based distros and primarily use Fedora on everything (including Fedora Asahi Remix on an M1 Ultra Mac Studio), but occasionally use Ubuntu and Debian on some of my cloud instances. As a result, I understand the desire to stick with a particular distribution that we're already familiar with - it's less work, and less having to remember subtle differences in structure. But when there is a time where I'm forced to use a new distro (e.g., when Asahi was first released exclusively as an Arch Linux ARM distro), I never regret the small learning experiences involved :-)
- thewebguyd 3mo ago
  And at least Fedora is rock solid these days, which is more than I can say about Ubuntu. Its really a great distro.
  - EasyMark 3mo ago
    It is, but I have been suspicious of redhat since IBM bought them and feel the rugpull could come at any old time.
matrss 3mo ago
There is an effort by the Bananas Team to get standard Debian working on Apple silicon, and they have installation instructions for how to get it running now with an additional unofficial repository: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1#The_Bananas_port https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1#The_Bana... I haven't actually tried to install it yet, though.
tuna74 3mo ago
You will probably always need a "fork" because Asahi needs a custom installer and bootloader. It is also probably a good idea to recompile everything for the Apple ARM architecture.

mort96 3mo ago

They are upstreaming their patches, so upstream Linux will eventually get the necessary drivers. Though their kernel fork is (obviously) open source, so there's nothing stopping you from taking a Debian aarch64 roots, build your own Asahi kernel (or take the build from Fedora), and set up Debian on these machines with Debian yourself. Just requires some elbow grease. Or, if you find Ubuntu acceptable, there's Ubuntu Asahi: https://ubuntuasahi.org/ https://ubuntuasahi.org/ EDIT: After some googling I found this wiki article: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1 https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1

weikju 3mo ago

You can still run Arch, and Ubuntu Asahi also exists. (1) They’re working hard on upstreaming everything exactly so it’s easier for any distribution to be ported. 1- https://ubuntuasahi.org/ https://ubuntuasahi.org/

hparadiz 3mo ago
I wish more people on HN learned how to build their own kernel and run it. A distro is just window dressing and flavor.
- awesomeusername 3mo ago
  There is a bit more to it on ARM I'm afraid. The device trees are complex and it feels to me it takes it out of the realm of 'anyone can and should do it'
  - jakogut 3mo ago
    Device trees are certainly less portable across hardware, and more difficult to create than just booting a generic kernel on a machine that supports ACPI. However, the device tree is shipped as part of the kernel, and as long as the bootloader correctly loads the DTB and kernel, it's no more difficult to swap out the userspace portion/rootfs than any other Linux system, generally.

MYEUHD 3mo ago

linux-asahi is available in Void Linux: https://voidlinux.org/download/#arm%20platforms https://voidlinux.org/download/#arm%20platforms It's a regular package of linux in the distro: https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcpkgs/linux-asahi https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/tree/master/srcp...

realusername 3mo ago

Upstreaming something like this is a monumental task, even small changes can take ages. It will take a while.

smith7018 3mo ago
They've actually been focusing on upstreaming for what feels like 2 years now. It's really slowed down progress but it's important for the longevity of the project. They still have so much left to upstream but little by little it's happening

tensegrist 3mo ago

i've been using nixos on an m2 air for a year now, the kernel is enough

leenixx 3mo ago

The founder of asahi linux famously quit due to how hard it was to upstream patches. It’s not easy to deal with linus’ project.

Grombobulous 3mo ago
I can’t see that being a bad thing considering that the kernel is mandatory software in the Linux world. You would want to have high standards for what gets added.
- gjvc 3mo ago
  "Disgusting" Linux sched_ext Source Code Restructured Following Complaint By Linus Torvalds - Phoronix https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Sched-Ext-Restructured https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Sched-Ext-Restructured
  - user_of_the_wek 3mo ago
    I mean, surely there is a more defensive way to communicate his preference, and the word disgusting is a bit unpolite. But still, does this really count as toxic behaviour?
- nosioptar 3mo ago
  You should have high standards. Torvalds often crosses that line into outright toxicity. I've written a few kernel patches that I never tried to upstream for that reason.
  - dandellion 3mo ago
    You'll never be able to agree on where that line should go. First because there's a cultural component to it. I'm from Spain so I can only talk for myself, but while he uses rude language, nothing I've ever read from him ever seemed particularly offensive. And second because any activity involving a large group of people will need some amount of toxicity if only to prevent other toxic people from derailing it, and since nobody thinks of themselves as the one that is being toxic to the project, there will always be some friction. You might not like fevers either, but they are necessary for a functioning immune system.

jasoneckert 3mo ago

This comment made me smile, as my preference is opposite - I prefer RPM-based distros and primarily use Fedora on everything (including Fedora Asahi Remix on an M1 Ultra Mac Studio), but occasionally use Ubuntu and Debian on some of my cloud instances. As a result, I understand the desire to stick with a particular distribution that we're already familiar with - it's less work, and less having to remember subtle differences in structure. But when there is a time where I'm forced to use a new distro (e.g., when Asahi was first released exclusively as an Arch Linux ARM distro), I never regret the small learning experiences involved :-)

thewebguyd 3mo ago
And at least Fedora is rock solid these days, which is more than I can say about Ubuntu. Its really a great distro.
- EasyMark 3mo ago
  It is, but I have been suspicious of redhat since IBM bought them and feel the rugpull could come at any old time.

matrss 3mo ago

There is an effort by the Bananas Team to get standard Debian working on Apple silicon, and they have installation instructions for how to get it running now with an additional unofficial repository: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1#The_Bananas_port https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1#The_Bana... I haven't actually tried to install it yet, though.

tuna74 3mo ago

You will probably always need a "fork" because Asahi needs a custom installer and bootloader. It is also probably a good idea to recompile everything for the Apple ARM architecture.