5 ms·

The article seems to be a meta analysis of a bunch of conflicting research to support a narrative that we don’t really know shit. And fair, we don’t. But a co

The article seems to be a meta analysis of a bunch of conflicting research to support a narrative that we don’t really know shit. And fair, we don’t. But a couple of things we do know that weren’t covered - egregiously so - is that aging is UV damage. Sometimes called photoaging, wrinkles, sun spots, discoloration, fine lines, grey hair, all of that shit that you associate with someone visibly looking old is sun damage. So the picture that the article paints of some pasty nerds in offices shielding themselves from all UV and thus: they might as well be smoking… it doesn’t even touch on why people might be doing this. Both kurgezadt and veritasium did some really great videos on photoaging and it’s worth checking out if this is new information to you.

JR1427 3mo ago
I've not heard that grey hair is sun damage. Do you have any sources for that?
- Zenbit_UX 3mo ago
  There’s plenty, though please evaluate the veracity of their claims for yourself, I’m not a scientist nor do I excel at parsing scientific articles. Here’s one I’ve come across after a few minutes which references many others https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1011134415003206?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10111...
  - JR1427 3mo ago
    After a quick skim, that article seems to be talking about something other than typical age-related greying. More photobleaching.
    - Zenbit_UX 3mo ago
      From the conclusions: > Sun radiation affects hair properties as color, luster, mechanical resistance, the content of proteins and others. TLDR Yes it impacts color. Further reading can be found in the 75 studies that can be found in the references section.
      - JR1427 3mo ago
        When most people think of age-related hair greying (which you referenced in your original post), they think of the phenomenon whereby hair follicles stop producing pigments that colour hair. This is distinct from UV bleaching of the pigments in the hair.
        mianos 3mo ago
        Which grows out. So if it was substantial, you can just stay inside a while and eventually your hair will grow out and replace the faded hair.
      - JR1427 3mo ago
        If hair greying was mostly caused by UV damage, I would expect that the pattern of greying would be even, and begin on the top of the head. In contrast (based on my own unscientific observations!) greying typically begins in small areas, and often on the temples - not what I'd expect if caused by UV damage.
        gib444 3mo ago
        Now I'm curious why it starts on the temples (it's where mine started too, then my fringe)
- ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
  If you compare President Obama photos (2008) to President Obama photos (2016) you may conclude that he spent most of his time lounging on the beach? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20081217_PRESSER-5044.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20081217_PRESSER-504... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President_Obama_and_Stevie_Wonder_in_Kissimmee,_Florida_(30734662862)_(cropped).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President_Obama_and_...
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
asdff 3mo ago
Pro golfers look a good 10-20 years older than their real age sometimes fwiw. In contrast to most other pro athletes in indoor disciplines who generally look better than their age. There's also examples of truckers who spent most of their career with the window rolled down and you can tell straight up what side of the road they drove on.
- thih9 3mo ago
  Truckers, plural? Is there an example that isn’t William McElligott from the famous photo[1]? Edit: self answer, yes[2] (left side!) [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trucker-accumulates-skin-damage-on-left-side-of-his-face-after-28-years-on-the-road/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trucker-accumulates-skin-damage... [2]: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health/lorry-driver-ages-dramatically-one-30249669.amp https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health/lorry-driver-ages-drama...
- layman51 3mo ago
  Those drivers don't even need to have the window rolled down as far as I know. That's because most door auto glass lets UVA rays through and that's what causes premature aging. If you want to block those UVA rays, you would need to apply some kind of additional film to the side window.
- Rendello 3mo ago
  I first took sun exposure seriously after backpacking and spending time with other young travellers in hostels. It was apparent who spent their time exposed to the sun, I remember a girl my age who was in the middle of a multi-year cycle tour, and although I envied her journey, her skin looked quite rough. I decided that if I ended up doing that, I'd get one of those cycle helmet brim visors and would probably just cover my face during a lot of the riding portions. Then I met a man who did kayak tours of a city. He was awesome, but really leathery due to the 20 years in a boat without shade and having the UV reflections off the water. Your skin cancer risk is off the charts at that point.
  - dghlsakjg 3mo ago
    I used to work on boats in the Caribbean. After my first few months there I realized that the people who didn't look like an old leather bag wore long sleeve shirts and big hats pretty much constantly.
tasty_freeze 3mo ago
I often embarrass my daughter when she has some new friend over. If the topic comes up, I give a demonstration. I'm 62 and I've never tried to get a tan and work indoors, and I haven't had a serious sunburn in close to 40 years. On the other hand, I lived spent the last 20 years in Austin, TX. I mow the yard and I ride a bike and in the summer months I put on sunblock before doing the bike rides an sometimes mowing. The exposed parts of my arms look like I'm 62 -- freckles, some age spots, the skin has lost a lot of elasticity. But then I roll up my T-shirt sleeve to expose my shoulder and my skin is like it was when I was 25: not just pale, but no freckles, no age spots, still supple.
- eager_learner 3mo ago
  the culprit is not the sun-- but overdoing it. If you overdrink water, it is fatal, too. The sun is responsible for benefiting over 200 processes in the body. And you don't need to be out in the sun all day to get the benefits (if your job does not demand it).
  - maleldil 3mo ago
    It's far harder to overdrink water than it is to overstay in the sun.
- jodrellblank 3mo ago
  Photo claiming to be a 92 year old woman who used suncream on her face, but not her neck, for 40 years: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ITlo7TAy_Hs/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ITlo7TAy_Hs/maxresdefault.jpg (She also appears to have Frank's Sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank%27s_sign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank%27s_sign )
  - DANmode 3mo ago
    and then staying in the sun too long, over and over again. Don’t forget that step.
    - 3mo ago
krupan 3mo ago
Who cares about your skin looking a little older when it prevents cardiovascular related deaths??
floren 3mo ago
I'd rather look old than be one of those lunatics who goes for a summer walk in a longsleeve shirt, gloves, and a hat with built-in veil (a pretty common sight in the Bay Area)
- littlexsparkee 3mo ago
  Sounds like my parents, I would always sweat our beach walks with my mom wearing a nose protector that resembled a beak
aranelsurion 3mo ago
> kurgezadt I suffered with German too, in fact, still do :) As a trivia: "kurz gesagt" -> kurz: short, gesagt: said. "sagen" is the verb "to say", "ge"+"t" is to form the past participle. (but not always :)

JR1427 3mo ago

I've not heard that grey hair is sun damage. Do you have any sources for that?

Zenbit_UX 3mo ago
There’s plenty, though please evaluate the veracity of their claims for yourself, I’m not a scientist nor do I excel at parsing scientific articles. Here’s one I’ve come across after a few minutes which references many others https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1011134415003206?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10111...
- JR1427 3mo ago
  After a quick skim, that article seems to be talking about something other than typical age-related greying. More photobleaching.
  - Zenbit_UX 3mo ago
    From the conclusions: > Sun radiation affects hair properties as color, luster, mechanical resistance, the content of proteins and others. TLDR Yes it impacts color. Further reading can be found in the 75 studies that can be found in the references section.
    - JR1427 3mo ago
      When most people think of age-related hair greying (which you referenced in your original post), they think of the phenomenon whereby hair follicles stop producing pigments that colour hair. This is distinct from UV bleaching of the pigments in the hair.
      - mianos 3mo ago
        Which grows out. So if it was substantial, you can just stay inside a while and eventually your hair will grow out and replace the faded hair.
    - JR1427 3mo ago
      If hair greying was mostly caused by UV damage, I would expect that the pattern of greying would be even, and begin on the top of the head. In contrast (based on my own unscientific observations!) greying typically begins in small areas, and often on the temples - not what I'd expect if caused by UV damage.
      - gib444 3mo ago
        Now I'm curious why it starts on the temples (it's where mine started too, then my fringe)
ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
If you compare President Obama photos (2008) to President Obama photos (2016) you may conclude that he spent most of his time lounging on the beach? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20081217_PRESSER-5044.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20081217_PRESSER-504... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President_Obama_and_Stevie_Wonder_in_Kissimmee,_Florida_(30734662862)_(cropped).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President_Obama_and_...

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

asdff 3mo ago

Pro golfers look a good 10-20 years older than their real age sometimes fwiw. In contrast to most other pro athletes in indoor disciplines who generally look better than their age. There's also examples of truckers who spent most of their career with the window rolled down and you can tell straight up what side of the road they drove on.

thih9 3mo ago
Truckers, plural? Is there an example that isn’t William McElligott from the famous photo[1]? Edit: self answer, yes[2] (left side!) [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trucker-accumulates-skin-damage-on-left-side-of-his-face-after-28-years-on-the-road/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trucker-accumulates-skin-damage... [2]: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health/lorry-driver-ages-dramatically-one-30249669.amp https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health/lorry-driver-ages-drama...
layman51 3mo ago
Those drivers don't even need to have the window rolled down as far as I know. That's because most door auto glass lets UVA rays through and that's what causes premature aging. If you want to block those UVA rays, you would need to apply some kind of additional film to the side window.
Rendello 3mo ago
I first took sun exposure seriously after backpacking and spending time with other young travellers in hostels. It was apparent who spent their time exposed to the sun, I remember a girl my age who was in the middle of a multi-year cycle tour, and although I envied her journey, her skin looked quite rough. I decided that if I ended up doing that, I'd get one of those cycle helmet brim visors and would probably just cover my face during a lot of the riding portions. Then I met a man who did kayak tours of a city. He was awesome, but really leathery due to the 20 years in a boat without shade and having the UV reflections off the water. Your skin cancer risk is off the charts at that point.
- dghlsakjg 3mo ago
  I used to work on boats in the Caribbean. After my first few months there I realized that the people who didn't look like an old leather bag wore long sleeve shirts and big hats pretty much constantly.

tasty_freeze 3mo ago

I often embarrass my daughter when she has some new friend over. If the topic comes up, I give a demonstration. I'm 62 and I've never tried to get a tan and work indoors, and I haven't had a serious sunburn in close to 40 years. On the other hand, I lived spent the last 20 years in Austin, TX. I mow the yard and I ride a bike and in the summer months I put on sunblock before doing the bike rides an sometimes mowing. The exposed parts of my arms look like I'm 62 -- freckles, some age spots, the skin has lost a lot of elasticity. But then I roll up my T-shirt sleeve to expose my shoulder and my skin is like it was when I was 25: not just pale, but no freckles, no age spots, still supple.

eager_learner 3mo ago
the culprit is not the sun-- but overdoing it. If you overdrink water, it is fatal, too. The sun is responsible for benefiting over 200 processes in the body. And you don't need to be out in the sun all day to get the benefits (if your job does not demand it).
- maleldil 3mo ago
  It's far harder to overdrink water than it is to overstay in the sun.
jodrellblank 3mo ago
Photo claiming to be a 92 year old woman who used suncream on her face, but not her neck, for 40 years: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ITlo7TAy_Hs/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ITlo7TAy_Hs/maxresdefault.jpg (She also appears to have Frank's Sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank%27s_sign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank%27s_sign )
- DANmode 3mo ago
  and then staying in the sun too long, over and over again. Don’t forget that step.
  - 3mo ago

krupan 3mo ago

Who cares about your skin looking a little older when it prevents cardiovascular related deaths??

floren 3mo ago

I'd rather look old than be one of those lunatics who goes for a summer walk in a longsleeve shirt, gloves, and a hat with built-in veil (a pretty common sight in the Bay Area)

littlexsparkee 3mo ago
Sounds like my parents, I would always sweat our beach walks with my mom wearing a nose protector that resembled a beak

aranelsurion 3mo ago

> kurgezadt I suffered with German too, in fact, still do :) As a trivia: "kurz gesagt" -> kurz: short, gesagt: said. "sagen" is the verb "to say", "ge"+"t" is to form the past participle. (but not always :)