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It ends with "The platforms need you far more than you need them". And I think this is the misconception. No, they don't. The amount of people who will sign th

by harel 3mo ago

It ends with "The platforms need you far more than you need them". And I think this is the misconception. No, they don't. The amount of people who will sign this, is a fraction of a fraction of a "platform"'s users. They will not care if they lose 50,000 users out of 2 Billion. A drop in the ocean. Not the target audience anyway. And that is the real shame. Because I don't want to have to give my face or do age verification but I know when the time comes, and If I need to use a service now, I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service. It sucks, but I don't think a petition will help. Unless of course you get the 50 million to sign the petition AND stick to it.

munk-a 3mo ago
You are correct that your data isn't particularly impactful for these platforms - but you're also overestimating the value that many of these services have. A fair few of them have competitors with better features and privacy offerings so the only reason you need them is purely for the network effect of everyone else using them.
- harel 3mo ago
  If there is a substitute and I am not time constrained 100% i'm switching. But I've been in a situation already where a platform I'm using required me to face-up. I can't even remember which to be honest but I had no alternative or recourse to refuse. In addition, in the UK company directors are legaly required to face-up to Companies House and confirm their identity, so they have my face too. Ah, and so is every single CCTV camera around London. I don't know how to fight this particular battle.
  - soperj 3mo ago
    Move from London, you have all of Europe to... nevermind.
    - harel 3mo ago
      Your pessimism is warranted. But there are places that are more welcoming still.
- wwweston 3mo ago
  And increasingly, everyone isn’t using them, even if they’re on them. I’m on Insta and WhatsApp and I use them a few times per year. I’m on Messenger and have seen a dramatic dropoff in messages. I’m on FB frequently and notice only a small fraction of my friends bother anymore and it’s become an interest platform to make up the lack, so I’m trending toward less time there. I’m on Twitter/X but check in maybe once a month. I may not be a typical user, but I’m probably not unique either.
  - baq 3mo ago
    I visit my facebook once a year and always regret it
    - munk-a 3mo ago
      At this point I purely use it to log in on my birthday to pass pleasantries with relatives that don't use any other platform and then turn it off again for a year.
      - stephenhuey 3mo ago
        I was one of the earliest on FB. It's mostly an address book for me now. I'm sad sooooo many acquaintances and relatives are there, and yes, it would be a lot of effort to get their contact info or get them to use other messaging platform (but I've started doing that). For 15+ years, I've thought long and hard countless times about what could sustainably replace social media platforms that do not serve us well. I know a paid app is not super likely to succeed, although WhatsApp did use to cost a dollar! It seems like a nonprofit wouldn't be that great, and so I wonder about a mission-driven public benefit corporation (not to be confused with a B corp, though it could be one of those too). Of course it has to be cool or no one would use it. Not a fuddy duddy wannabe social network. Anyway, to sustain itself, would ads or paid offerings (that don't harvest personal data) be successful? Happy to discuss with anyone interested!
  - ghaff 3mo ago
    I'm very much like you. There are several apps that I use to communicate with a handful (or less) of people in the world. I see people on travel sites saying "Just use WhatsApp" and I'm more or less, yes it's installed on my phone and I use it with a couple people but it's certainly not something that most people I know use. Probably something of a demographic (geography/age) thing.
- throw1234567891 3mo ago
  The competitors will be also regulated. It’s a slippery slope.
- cortesoft 3mo ago
  Just because the network effect is why you need them doesn’t make that need go away.
  - rockskon 3mo ago
    It represents an increase in cost to use the service. Most such services have a wealth of competitors for your time and attention. "Need" is an extremely strong word that is not appropriate for many Internet services where facial recognition is being pushed for.
  - munk-a 3mo ago
    I don't disagree. I still use facebook once a year for contact with relatives but if the only thing keeping you is the network effect then hopefully people will migrate off - maybe you can help them do so!
ekall 3mo ago
I think this kind of comment where you share the sentiment that you will ultimately admit defeat emboldens the factions that are hoping for people to be like you. I also think these kinds of comments may also bring doubt to people considering resisting these kinds of concessions. In other words I think the people pushing these kinds of "identification" methods would love you for spreading their silent message of this being unavoidable knowingly or unknowingly. Even if what you say is correct let's not make it easier for people wanting to enshittify the future, yeah?
- skinfaxi 3mo ago
  There is a term for what you describe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
- brandensilva 3mo ago
  I find it strange for these people to accept such a defeatist attitude because I'm the opposite. I mean I will just not use the service and I'll seek out alternatives that are open source or create my own. I'll do anything possible until I'm the last one standing if that's what it comes down too. I tried to sign up to Telnyx and they had the same crap from an unreliable data-breach and being-litigated persona identifier. I passed on that. I've already been going down this road as I've abandoned Google and some of the big cloud providers in favor of smaller companies who aren't pushing these policies. It isn't hard to click cancel. It's just people favor convenience over their own freedom because they have never experienced not having freedom like our founder's did 250 years ago. The problem is once freedom is gone, getting it back requires blood spilled and political reforms and revolutions based on what history teaches us.
  - bflesch 3mo ago
    The British crown never gave away the control, it is just obfuscated through the British-owned offshore financial networks. The Epstein files make this abundantly clear. We are currently ruled by the third generation of post-WW2 five eyes nepo kids, with all problems this entails. The feel-good narrative about US was spun by Hollywood, but the old money of British aristocracy never went away. All the "self-made billionaires" who receive a Lordship title from the King just so the commoners work even more because they think they have a fair shot. If someone like Ghislaine Maxwell applies for a visa in their colony USA, she receives a vanity social security number "Leet Babe" (1337 84883).
shevy-java 3mo ago
It has never been about those platforms though. I could not care less if CIAbook or Instaspam or any of these other anti-social slop sites exist. They want to force all operating systems to require age sniffing. That's the main angle right now. I am curiously watching how systemd will add more implementation details to this; probably as a first step only for commercial linux distributions.
inigyou 3mo ago
They arguably don't need any users as long as they can maintain the delusion of being important and especially present that delusion to politicians.
- TeMPOraL 3mo ago
  s/politicians/the stock market/, yes.
dfxm12 3mo ago
and If I need to use a service now, I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service. Need or want? We need very few of the services looking for our government ID. Also, this should not be the only way of pushing back. We can support the EFF and politicians who are actively fighting against this or candidates who vow to. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/03/rep-finke-was-right-age-gating-isnt-about-kids-its-about-control https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/03/rep-finke-was-right-ag...
- harel 3mo ago
  Yes we can support the people who fight it, and also at the same time admit that I, personally, cannot fight it. Some people are driven by the fight. I am not. And want or need, what is the difference? I'm there, I need or want X, I am also busy. Also, as a company director, I'm required by law now to verify my identity plus my face.
tinfoilhatter 3mo ago
> I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service. Why? Why not just hold firm to your principles and sacrifice convenience for your personal sovereignty. When you don't, you make the situation worse for everyone else as well by normalizing this bullshit.
lenerdenator 3mo ago
A better idea would be to regulate their corporate behavior and outlaw their current system of corporate governance. It's insane that we keep passing off these companies with a majority shareholder on the board and in the C-suite as capable of being rational actors in the market. They aren't, and can't be made to be. You have to pass laws and enforce them. You don't need 50 million people to do that.
augment_me 3mo ago
Bitter truth :(
spopejoy 3mo ago
> If I need to use a service now, I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service There is such a thing as principled resistance? Not everything has to pass some EA effectiveness test. Some inconvenience or discomfort is rewarded by the self-integrity bolstered by rejecting things you don't support.

by harel 3mo ago

munk-a 3mo ago

You are correct that your data isn't particularly impactful for these platforms - but you're also overestimating the value that many of these services have. A fair few of them have competitors with better features and privacy offerings so the only reason you need them is purely for the network effect of everyone else using them.

harel 3mo ago
If there is a substitute and I am not time constrained 100% i'm switching. But I've been in a situation already where a platform I'm using required me to face-up. I can't even remember which to be honest but I had no alternative or recourse to refuse. In addition, in the UK company directors are legaly required to face-up to Companies House and confirm their identity, so they have my face too. Ah, and so is every single CCTV camera around London. I don't know how to fight this particular battle.
- soperj 3mo ago
  Move from London, you have all of Europe to... nevermind.
  - harel 3mo ago
    Your pessimism is warranted. But there are places that are more welcoming still.
wwweston 3mo ago
And increasingly, everyone isn’t using them, even if they’re on them. I’m on Insta and WhatsApp and I use them a few times per year. I’m on Messenger and have seen a dramatic dropoff in messages. I’m on FB frequently and notice only a small fraction of my friends bother anymore and it’s become an interest platform to make up the lack, so I’m trending toward less time there. I’m on Twitter/X but check in maybe once a month. I may not be a typical user, but I’m probably not unique either.
- baq 3mo ago
  I visit my facebook once a year and always regret it
  - munk-a 3mo ago
    At this point I purely use it to log in on my birthday to pass pleasantries with relatives that don't use any other platform and then turn it off again for a year.
    - stephenhuey 3mo ago
      I was one of the earliest on FB. It's mostly an address book for me now. I'm sad sooooo many acquaintances and relatives are there, and yes, it would be a lot of effort to get their contact info or get them to use other messaging platform (but I've started doing that). For 15+ years, I've thought long and hard countless times about what could sustainably replace social media platforms that do not serve us well. I know a paid app is not super likely to succeed, although WhatsApp did use to cost a dollar! It seems like a nonprofit wouldn't be that great, and so I wonder about a mission-driven public benefit corporation (not to be confused with a B corp, though it could be one of those too). Of course it has to be cool or no one would use it. Not a fuddy duddy wannabe social network. Anyway, to sustain itself, would ads or paid offerings (that don't harvest personal data) be successful? Happy to discuss with anyone interested!
- ghaff 3mo ago
  I'm very much like you. There are several apps that I use to communicate with a handful (or less) of people in the world. I see people on travel sites saying "Just use WhatsApp" and I'm more or less, yes it's installed on my phone and I use it with a couple people but it's certainly not something that most people I know use. Probably something of a demographic (geography/age) thing.
throw1234567891 3mo ago
The competitors will be also regulated. It’s a slippery slope.
cortesoft 3mo ago
Just because the network effect is why you need them doesn’t make that need go away.
- rockskon 3mo ago
  It represents an increase in cost to use the service. Most such services have a wealth of competitors for your time and attention. "Need" is an extremely strong word that is not appropriate for many Internet services where facial recognition is being pushed for.
- munk-a 3mo ago
  I don't disagree. I still use facebook once a year for contact with relatives but if the only thing keeping you is the network effect then hopefully people will migrate off - maybe you can help them do so!

ekall 3mo ago

I think this kind of comment where you share the sentiment that you will ultimately admit defeat emboldens the factions that are hoping for people to be like you. I also think these kinds of comments may also bring doubt to people considering resisting these kinds of concessions. In other words I think the people pushing these kinds of "identification" methods would love you for spreading their silent message of this being unavoidable knowingly or unknowingly. Even if what you say is correct let's not make it easier for people wanting to enshittify the future, yeah?

skinfaxi 3mo ago
There is a term for what you describe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
brandensilva 3mo ago
I find it strange for these people to accept such a defeatist attitude because I'm the opposite. I mean I will just not use the service and I'll seek out alternatives that are open source or create my own. I'll do anything possible until I'm the last one standing if that's what it comes down too. I tried to sign up to Telnyx and they had the same crap from an unreliable data-breach and being-litigated persona identifier. I passed on that. I've already been going down this road as I've abandoned Google and some of the big cloud providers in favor of smaller companies who aren't pushing these policies. It isn't hard to click cancel. It's just people favor convenience over their own freedom because they have never experienced not having freedom like our founder's did 250 years ago. The problem is once freedom is gone, getting it back requires blood spilled and political reforms and revolutions based on what history teaches us.
- bflesch 3mo ago
  The British crown never gave away the control, it is just obfuscated through the British-owned offshore financial networks. The Epstein files make this abundantly clear. We are currently ruled by the third generation of post-WW2 five eyes nepo kids, with all problems this entails. The feel-good narrative about US was spun by Hollywood, but the old money of British aristocracy never went away. All the "self-made billionaires" who receive a Lordship title from the King just so the commoners work even more because they think they have a fair shot. If someone like Ghislaine Maxwell applies for a visa in their colony USA, she receives a vanity social security number "Leet Babe" (1337 84883).

shevy-java 3mo ago

It has never been about those platforms though. I could not care less if CIAbook or Instaspam or any of these other anti-social slop sites exist. They want to force all operating systems to require age sniffing. That's the main angle right now. I am curiously watching how systemd will add more implementation details to this; probably as a first step only for commercial linux distributions.

inigyou 3mo ago

They arguably don't need any users as long as they can maintain the delusion of being important and especially present that delusion to politicians.

TeMPOraL 3mo ago
s/politicians/the stock market/, yes.

dfxm12 3mo ago

and If I need to use a service now, I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service. Need or want? We need very few of the services looking for our government ID. Also, this should not be the only way of pushing back. We can support the EFF and politicians who are actively fighting against this or candidates who vow to. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/03/rep-finke-was-right-age-gating-isnt-about-kids-its-about-control https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/03/rep-finke-was-right-ag...

harel 3mo ago
Yes we can support the people who fight it, and also at the same time admit that I, personally, cannot fight it. Some people are driven by the fight. I am not. And want or need, what is the difference? I'm there, I need or want X, I am also busy. Also, as a company director, I'm required by law now to verify my identity plus my face.

tinfoilhatter 3mo ago

> I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service. Why? Why not just hold firm to your principles and sacrifice convenience for your personal sovereignty. When you don't, you make the situation worse for everyone else as well by normalizing this bullshit.

lenerdenator 3mo ago

A better idea would be to regulate their corporate behavior and outlaw their current system of corporate governance. It's insane that we keep passing off these companies with a majority shareholder on the board and in the C-suite as capable of being rational actors in the market. They aren't, and can't be made to be. You have to pass laws and enforce them. You don't need 50 million people to do that.

augment_me 3mo ago

Bitter truth :(

spopejoy 3mo ago

> If I need to use a service now, I will give them whatever they want to get past the hurdle and use the service There is such a thing as principled resistance? Not everything has to pass some EA effectiveness test. Some inconvenience or discomfort is rewarded by the self-integrity bolstered by rejecting things you don't support.