5 ms·

You're joking, right? Starbase is notorious for high accident rates.

by codingdave 4mo ago

drob518 4mo ago
Data?
- codingdave 4mo ago
  Start here: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/18/spacex-worker-injury-rates-at-starbase-outpace-industry-rivals/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/18/spacex-worker-injury-rates... Drill down into the links from there. Or do a search. Or ask an LLM. I have a hard time finding any data that doesn't think they have high rates.
  - ajross 4mo ago
    That article's lede says that Starbase is more dangerous than other SpaceX facilities, not that SpaceX is dangerous per se? Also there's a sample size problem with numbers like that. Is SpaceX more dangerous than heavy industry in general, or some more related subset like aviation manufacturing? As to your second line, I submit that commenting on HN that "Starbase is notorious for high accident rates" carries with it an implicit offer to provide said notes and not just punt to Google when challenged.
    - Veserv 4mo ago
      What a inane comment. They gave you a link that literally spoonfeeds the data and you complain because you can not be bothered to read until what is literally the second sentence in the article before accusing them of making statements in bad faith without supporting data. > Starbase, a sprawling launch-and-manufacturing site that recently incorporated as its own Texas city, logged injury rates that were almost 6x higher than the average for comparable space vehicle-manufacturing outfits and nearly 3x higher than aerospace manufacturing as a whole in 2024, according to Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) data released in May. Literally the second sentence which answers all of the questions you just posed and invalidates your accusations in the second paragraph. Geez.
    - NamTaf 4mo ago
      This is trivially easy to check if you actually wanted to. Hell, I'll bring the receipts on your behalf. These numbers are all total injury frequency rates per 100 employees or 200k hours (equivalent measures, assuming 50x 40-hour weeks) Assuming the TC article that cites 4.27 at Starbase is accurate, it's well in excess of anything I'm used to seeing. Have a flick through here for industry-wide equivalents: https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.... Alternatively, here's some of the big players in various engineering, construction, mining, etc. heavy industries, taken directly from their websites/sustainability reports: ExxonMobil: 0.1-0.2 https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/publications/metrics-and-data https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/publications/metrics-and-da... Chevron: 0.24 (p23) https://www.chevron.com/newsroom/media/publications/corporate-sustainability-report https://www.chevron.com/newsroom/media/publications/corporat... Glencore: 2.14 (p15) https://www.glencore.com/.rest/api/v1/documents/static/9b103e11-72e7-40bf-ae7c-eabe57361522/GLEN-2025-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.glencore.com/.rest/api/v1/documents/static/9b103... Jiangxi Copper: 1.5 (p132, NB: per million hours so /5) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2025/0327/2025032702747.pdf https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2025/0327/... Fluor: 0.31 (p10) https://a.fluor.com/f/1014770/x/1d656014e2/2024-sustainability-disclosures.pdf https://a.fluor.com/f/1014770/x/1d656014e2/2024-sustainabili... Jacobs: 0.17 (p61) https://s205.q4cdn.com/384284279/files/doc_downloads/2024/ESG/FY24-Sustainability-Report_FINAL.pdf https://s205.q4cdn.com/384284279/files/doc_downloads/2024/ES... Union Pacific: 0.9 (p8) https://www.up.com/content/dam/upcom/strategy-sustainability/documents/Sustainability%20Metrics%202024%20Final.pdf https://www.up.com/content/dam/upcom/strategy-sustainability... PG&E: 1.87 (p45) https://www.pgecorp.com/assets/pgecorp/csr/csr_2025/assets/pge-csr-2025.pdf https://www.pgecorp.com/assets/pgecorp/csr/csr_2025/assets/p... Baowu: 1.8 (p19, listed per 1000 employees so *10) https://res.baowugroup.com/attach/2025/09/18/4751f22bbb3348479b7afbfc627bbb9a.pdf https://res.baowugroup.com/attach/2025/09/18/4751f22bbb33484... Parsons: 0.16 (p29) https://www.parsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FY24-CARE.pdf https://www.parsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FY24-CARE... Vale: 1.58 (p66) https://www.vale.com/documents/44618/430705/2025_Annual+Report+EN.pdf/1a40d1ff-c65a-5c46-cc2a-78c4294bd08f?version=1.3&t=1776265104853&download=false https://www.vale.com/documents/44618/430705/2025_Annual+Repo...
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
Ajedi32 4mo ago
Compared to what? US average fatal accident rate for construction is 9.2 deaths per 100,000 full-time workers per year. In oil and gas extraction it's 13.8. In agriculture it's 20.9. In manufacturing it's 2.4. What's Starbase's rate? (Source: https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/number-and-rate-of-fatal-work-injuries-by-industry.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...)
- bryanlarsen 4mo ago
  Fatality rate is hard to compare because of the low divisor problem. Injury rate is 4.27 per 100. Which is under half the average value for active construction sites and 3x the average value for aerospace manufacturing facilities. Choose your comparator based on whether you want to praise or bash SpaceX.
  - Ajedi32 4mo ago
    Yes. Starbase is an active construction site right now, so that's why I chose that as a point of comparison. But obviously there's also a lot of aerospace manufacturing happening at the same time, so it makes sense the number would be somewhere between those two industries.
  - russdill 4mo ago
    The fatality occurred at a construction site, not an aerospace manufacturing facility.
  - NamTaf 4mo ago
    Where are you getting construction as double that? This BLS site states that total recordable injuries is 2.2 per 100 employees. https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.... Remember, this is reportable injuries. not LTIs, not fatalities. As an aside, as someone who works on major engineering construction projects, 4.27 per 100 people is huge. I'm used to sub-1.0, and something like 4.x would be stop-the-project-safety-intervention significant.
- deleted 4mo ago

You're joking, right? Starbase is notorious for high accident rates.

drob518 4mo ago

Data?

codingdave 4mo ago
Start here: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/18/spacex-worker-injury-rates-at-starbase-outpace-industry-rivals/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/18/spacex-worker-injury-rates... Drill down into the links from there. Or do a search. Or ask an LLM. I have a hard time finding any data that doesn't think they have high rates.
- ajross 4mo ago
  That article's lede says that Starbase is more dangerous than other SpaceX facilities, not that SpaceX is dangerous per se? Also there's a sample size problem with numbers like that. Is SpaceX more dangerous than heavy industry in general, or some more related subset like aviation manufacturing? As to your second line, I submit that commenting on HN that "Starbase is notorious for high accident rates" carries with it an implicit offer to provide said notes and not just punt to Google when challenged.
  - Veserv 4mo ago
    What a inane comment. They gave you a link that literally spoonfeeds the data and you complain because you can not be bothered to read until what is literally the second sentence in the article before accusing them of making statements in bad faith without supporting data. > Starbase, a sprawling launch-and-manufacturing site that recently incorporated as its own Texas city, logged injury rates that were almost 6x higher than the average for comparable space vehicle-manufacturing outfits and nearly 3x higher than aerospace manufacturing as a whole in 2024, according to Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) data released in May. Literally the second sentence which answers all of the questions you just posed and invalidates your accusations in the second paragraph. Geez.
  - NamTaf 4mo ago
    This is trivially easy to check if you actually wanted to. Hell, I'll bring the receipts on your behalf. These numbers are all total injury frequency rates per 100 employees or 200k hours (equivalent measures, assuming 50x 40-hour weeks) Assuming the TC article that cites 4.27 at Starbase is accurate, it's well in excess of anything I'm used to seeing. Have a flick through here for industry-wide equivalents: https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.... Alternatively, here's some of the big players in various engineering, construction, mining, etc. heavy industries, taken directly from their websites/sustainability reports: ExxonMobil: 0.1-0.2 https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/publications/metrics-and-data https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/publications/metrics-and-da... Chevron: 0.24 (p23) https://www.chevron.com/newsroom/media/publications/corporate-sustainability-report https://www.chevron.com/newsroom/media/publications/corporat... Glencore: 2.14 (p15) https://www.glencore.com/.rest/api/v1/documents/static/9b103e11-72e7-40bf-ae7c-eabe57361522/GLEN-2025-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.glencore.com/.rest/api/v1/documents/static/9b103... Jiangxi Copper: 1.5 (p132, NB: per million hours so /5) https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2025/0327/2025032702747.pdf https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2025/0327/... Fluor: 0.31 (p10) https://a.fluor.com/f/1014770/x/1d656014e2/2024-sustainability-disclosures.pdf https://a.fluor.com/f/1014770/x/1d656014e2/2024-sustainabili... Jacobs: 0.17 (p61) https://s205.q4cdn.com/384284279/files/doc_downloads/2024/ESG/FY24-Sustainability-Report_FINAL.pdf https://s205.q4cdn.com/384284279/files/doc_downloads/2024/ES... Union Pacific: 0.9 (p8) https://www.up.com/content/dam/upcom/strategy-sustainability/documents/Sustainability%20Metrics%202024%20Final.pdf https://www.up.com/content/dam/upcom/strategy-sustainability... PG&E: 1.87 (p45) https://www.pgecorp.com/assets/pgecorp/csr/csr_2025/assets/pge-csr-2025.pdf https://www.pgecorp.com/assets/pgecorp/csr/csr_2025/assets/p... Baowu: 1.8 (p19, listed per 1000 employees so *10) https://res.baowugroup.com/attach/2025/09/18/4751f22bbb3348479b7afbfc627bbb9a.pdf https://res.baowugroup.com/attach/2025/09/18/4751f22bbb33484... Parsons: 0.16 (p29) https://www.parsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FY24-CARE.pdf https://www.parsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/FY24-CARE... Vale: 1.58 (p66) https://www.vale.com/documents/44618/430705/2025_Annual+Report+EN.pdf/1a40d1ff-c65a-5c46-cc2a-78c4294bd08f?version=1.3&t=1776265104853&download=false https://www.vale.com/documents/44618/430705/2025_Annual+Repo...
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

Ajedi32 4mo ago

Compared to what? US average fatal accident rate for construction is 9.2 deaths per 100,000 full-time workers per year. In oil and gas extraction it's 13.8. In agriculture it's 20.9. In manufacturing it's 2.4. What's Starbase's rate? (Source: https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/number-and-rate-of-fatal-work-injuries-by-industry.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...)

bryanlarsen 4mo ago
Fatality rate is hard to compare because of the low divisor problem. Injury rate is 4.27 per 100. Which is under half the average value for active construction sites and 3x the average value for aerospace manufacturing facilities. Choose your comparator based on whether you want to praise or bash SpaceX.
- Ajedi32 4mo ago
  Yes. Starbase is an active construction site right now, so that's why I chose that as a point of comparison. But obviously there's also a lot of aerospace manufacturing happening at the same time, so it makes sense the number would be somewhere between those two industries.
- russdill 4mo ago
  The fatality occurred at a construction site, not an aerospace manufacturing facility.
- NamTaf 4mo ago
  Where are you getting construction as double that? This BLS site states that total recordable injuries is 2.2 per 100 employees. https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/osh/table-1-industry-rates-national.... Remember, this is reportable injuries. not LTIs, not fatalities. As an aside, as someone who works on major engineering construction projects, 4.27 per 100 people is huge. I'm used to sub-1.0, and something like 4.x would be stop-the-project-safety-intervention significant.
deleted 4mo ago