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Police need reform. Police unions need to go entirely. Police unions exist primarily to prevent police from consequences of their abuses of power. The State doe
by dacops 4mo ago
Police need reform. Police unions need to go entirely. Police unions exist primarily to prevent police from consequences of their abuses of power. The State doesn't need unions to protect itself from its citizens.
- wnc3141 4mo agoI would think Police unions would probably gladly accept. higher pay for more accountability. It feels like accountability sheltering is a deal with the devil that cities made.
- pc86 4mo agoYou've never negotiated with a union rep on anything, have you? You pay every beat cop in the country $1 million/yr and they would never agree to the level of accountability most people expect. Independent review of actions by someone outside the chain of command? Unpaid leave when you're under investigation? At-will employment? Raises and promotions based on skill, not seniority? Random, immediate, and pass-fail physical, psychological, and marksmanship tests? Most of these seem completely reasonable to most people and if you said even one of them in a contract negotiation the first order of business by the union rep would be to remove you from contract negotiation.
- TheScaryOne 4mo ago>you said even one of them in a contract negotiation the first order of business by the union rep would be to remove you from contract negotiation. You can do the same thing by saying "jury nullification" during the jury duty selection process. You can watch BOTH lawyers scramble to kick you out of the room.
- fwipsy 4mo ago> You've never negotiated with a union rep on anything, have you? To be fair, how many people can say they have?
- dacops 4mo agoCops are already paid very, very highly and should be held accountable. Cops don't take accountability and do take the pay, so your thesis is pretty well tested and didn't work.
- SilverElfin 4mo ago[flagged]
- ngvrnd 4mo agoit should apply to all public sector unions, they're a disaster. That's the real problem. Should never have been allowed.
- dacops 4mo agoCop unions are very different from basically every other kind of union. Cops aren't workers. They don't need workers unions. Teachers and administrative staff are workers. They need workers unions.
- lotsofpulp 4mo agoTeachers don’t have guns, and the ability to tie you up in the courts or worse.
- gruez 4mo agoSure, that makes the case for reform stronger for police unions, but why should bad union behavior (ie. protecting criminal or incompetent members) be tolerated at all?
- fwip 4mo agoBecause the freedom of association is a core principle of the American constitution. Curtailing that freedom should be a measure of last resort.
- gruez 4mo ago>Curtailing that freedom should be a measure of last resort. This just feels like it turns into a cudgel against whatever groups you hate. Bad police unions? Boo! Let's ban them! Bad teacher unions? Free association is protected by the constitution so they get a pass. Catholic priests? On one hand they're consistently hated on by progressives, but on the other hand much of the arguments that can be used to defend them can be applied to teachers.
- avgDev 4mo agoI have friends who are cops.....the amount of shenanigans that happens behind the curtains is insane. It is literally full of high school drama, divorces, sleeping around, just all around poor behavior. Unfortunately, the same happens in other high stress industries. Nurses are wild too.
- jagged-chisel 4mo agoI don’t think “high stress” is the common denominator for that kind of behavior. That just sounds like horny, immature humans - happens in lots of places.
- tredre3 4mo agoIt happens essentially everywhere. If you think it doesn't happen at your place of work, it's likely just because you haven't been included in the gossip circle.
- fwipsy 4mo agoDrama is stressful/exciting. People who have a high tolerance for stress/excitement are the ones who take on stressful jobs (nurses, police, flight attendants...) and the ones who are more tolerant of/likely to engage in drama.
- DANmode 4mo agoExactly. Is Florida State University also a high-stress environment? or…birds of a feather?
- dpoloncsak 4mo agoThis happens everywhere, your office just isn't sharing the gossip with you
- fwipsy 4mo agoI don't give a shit about what cops do on their time off, as long as it's legal. It's what they do in a uniform that matters.
- elzbardico 4mo agoA lot of this will happen without unions anyway. It seems like every country has a completely different cultural gestalt surrounding police work. For some reason, modern police culture in american seems to increasingly value a corporatist perspective of us vs them (them being everyone who is not police), the normalization of violent response, fixation with the concept of face and widespread corruption. Police Unions didn't create them, and abolishing them won't eliminate their lobbying power, you don't need a union to organize yourself around a lobby. Let's not use this excuse to perpetuate the demonization of unions. After decades of increase concentration of productivity gains in the hands of capital at the expense of labor, and as we enter the AI age, this is the least thing we need.
- kjellsbells 4mo agoi dont know that it's a modern phenomenon. For example law enforcement being used to attack strikers in West Virginia, cops from Los Angeles being sent to the CA border to attack Dust Bowl Okies, maybe other readers can think of others. For all the good that LE does, there has always been a strain of working for more extreme capitalist interests.
- dacops 4mo agoCops (modern cops) grew out of capital trying to socialize the cost of protecting their interests. Whether it was slave patrols or dock warehouse security, central cops evolved to protect capital's interests.