7 ms·

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not

by pigggg 5mo ago

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

greysonp 5mo ago
Signal developer here. It's just because notification reliability is always a top support complaint, and a lot of people turn off notifications and don't realize they've done so. Admittedly, once a month is likely too aggressive.
- pigggg 5mo ago
  Is there some "no means no" additional setting that could be added where someone has to go into settings that would prevent that? I fear that with the notifications pop up asking me this I might hit the wrong button and woops turn it on.
  - NAR8789 5mo ago
    Try from inside the signal app itself instead of system settings? On android Signal has an option at hamburger menu > Settings > Notifications > Notifications (toggle switch) Oh... hmm, two toggles actually. One at Settings > Notifications > Calls > Notifications toggle, and the other at Settings > Notifications > Messages > Notifications toggle
- dataflow 5mo ago
  How about instead of prompting to enable notifications, you leave a small banner or other unintrusive/non-annoying UI noting that they're off, which users can tap in order to learn more about how to reenable them? For an app that prides itself on privacy, it's kind of crazy that you're making it so easy to accidentally blow it.
  - illiac786 5mo ago
    That would drive me nuts. I do not want a banner permanently on I cannot remove. And before someone suggests it: If the banner can be removed, you’re back to having lots of complaints for users that did not realise they turned off notifications.
    - dataflow 5mo ago
      Doesn't have to be prominent and doesn't even have to be a banner. The ultimate point is to make it hard to reenable by accident, and to not make it annoying. Lots of ways to do that.
      - illiac786 5mo ago
        True. Lots of ways to do it wrong too. I have seen this done wrong significantly more often than right. Anyway, I agree it’s worth a try.
- peacebeard 5mo ago
  Making the product worse for everybody because a minority can’t manage their own settings is a terrible strategy.
  - cbg0 5mo ago
    Do most people keep the notifications disabled for their messaging apps?
    - tristor 5mo ago
      I disable notifications on every app that is not on the critical path to me earning a living. Notifications are largely unnecessary. Either you are actively engaged with something, in which case you didn't need the notification, or you are doing something else and don't need the distraction, in which case you didn't need the notification. Only my employer gets a right to demand my time during work hours, which is why notifications are enabled during work hours for work apps. We as a society have gotten way too comfortable expecting every single person to be available at all times to provide us some kind of immediate response. Let people live. If I'm hiking through the woods with my camera doing bird photography, even if you're my best friend you can wait until I get back to my car and manually check my messages, I don't need a notification. If it's an emergency, dial my number and call me, which will make my phone ring. Novel concept, I know.
      - sneak 5mo ago
        Signal notifications are the #1 thing in the critical path for me earning a living. Isn’t this normal in our industry?
        fwip 5mo ago
        Nope.
        tristor 5mo ago
        Okay, well you should probably have them enabled then. For me, Signal is for personal messaging. My work messages are mostly Slack, Webex, and Teams.
- elevation 5mo ago
  > notification reliability is always a top support complaint I know octogenarians who use signal daily. "You called me and it didn't ring" or "messaged and it didn't beep" are definitely the top support complaints I receive. Thanks for being sensitive to this use case.
- jacquesm 5mo ago
  Any time after a user switches it off on purpose is too aggressive.
johnnyApplePRNG 5mo ago
NSL, perhaps?
ryandrake 5mo ago
> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced into serving the software's interest and solving the developers' problems. EDIT: Looks like a developer confirmed this in a sibling comment already: It nags you because that solves their support problem.
- krunck 5mo ago
  The Proton Drive app keeps asking me to turn on backups of photos and video. There is no option to say "don't ask again." I guess they /want/ more storage to be used? Or is there a support issue they are trying to deal with?
  - pigggg 5mo ago
    Yes Google constantly asks me to backup my pictures to their platform No, I don't want this. But regularly when I go to my photos it'll pop up with a box asking and the default option is yes please back up. Sad.
    - bryan_w 5mo ago
      You know you can just use a different picture app?
  - ryandrake 5mo ago
    "Consent" has become this mystical foreign concept to software developers. If the world of computing was a night club, "Silicon Valley" would be that creepy guy who goes up to everyone asking "Do you want to dance? [YES | Ask Me Later]".
  - alpaca128 5mo ago
    They probably want to avoid situations where a customer turns off backups, then loses data and makes it the problem of support. But it would be nice to have a "don't ask again" option regardless, even if it's hidden in settings.
mackman 5mo ago
Messaging platforms where people receive and promptly respond to messages are more successful in the long run. That's why SMS overtook email. If you own a messaging platform there isn't anything inherently nefarious about pushing people to enable notifications.
- Forgeties79 5mo ago
  There is if they have repeatedly said no
  - snhjsdrhrsh 5mo ago
    imagine someone shows up to your door and tries to sell you garbage. you ask him to leave and he says he'll show up again soon. and these idiots defend this behavior. at the end of the day, the people on this site are muppets, they just dont like facebook is all.
    - Forgeties79 5mo ago
      What I don’t understand is why anyone can’t imagine scenarios where folks don’t want to turn on notifications. Also, why on a site where all I ever read is “users should be allowed to choose, users should be allowed to control their computers, users should have their consent respected,” etc. (especially when Linux comes up) are we seeing “no, users should keep getting nagged to turn on a feature they explicitly said they don’t want to use”? It’s not like it’s hard to go enable notifications. They can easily change their mind.
    - shooly 5mo ago
      Does Signal magically show up on people's phones and open itself at random point in time? I have a suspicion, that you might not be too good at this whole "making analogies" thing.
benhurmarcel 5mo ago
Reminds me what Whatsapp if you set up a 2FA PIN, which forces you to type it about every week to check if you forgot it. So annoying.
- fn-mote 5mo ago
  Sorry, I really cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. One of the TOTP apps had a periodic test that you still knew the paraphrase. It started frequent and then backed off to like once a month. There’s definitely a benefit even if it’s annoying.
  - OutOfHere 5mo ago
    It depends on whether one has it stored in a password manager or not. If stored, there is no benfit. Giving users a choice would be better.
  - dwedge 5mo ago
    That app was authy by Twilio. Twilio screwed over everyone using that app
  - benhurmarcel 5mo ago
    That’s not sarcasm and it doesn’t allow any backup, it literally just to make sure you didn’t forget the PIN. It’s once a week, forever. It’s a good way to make sure people don’t activate 2FA. https://faq.whatsapp.com/1278661612895630/ https://faq.whatsapp.com/1278661612895630/ > WhatsApp will regularly ask you to enter your PIN as a reminder. As long as you don't reset the PIN, you will get a reminder once a week.
SwtCyber 5mo ago
Pretty sure that's just iOS behavior + app design. If notifications are off, apps will occasionally prompt again to make sure you didn't disable them by accident or miss something
- jshier 5mo ago
  No, the OS will not do that, nor is the developer able to trigger the system prompt again when they detect the user has notifications off. Only thing they can do is present their own prompt and link out to the Settings app for the app's settings. Can't even deep link to the app's notification settings.

by pigggg 5mo ago

greysonp 5mo ago

Signal developer here. It's just because notification reliability is always a top support complaint, and a lot of people turn off notifications and don't realize they've done so. Admittedly, once a month is likely too aggressive.

pigggg 5mo ago
Is there some "no means no" additional setting that could be added where someone has to go into settings that would prevent that? I fear that with the notifications pop up asking me this I might hit the wrong button and woops turn it on.
- NAR8789 5mo ago
  Try from inside the signal app itself instead of system settings? On android Signal has an option at hamburger menu > Settings > Notifications > Notifications (toggle switch) Oh... hmm, two toggles actually. One at Settings > Notifications > Calls > Notifications toggle, and the other at Settings > Notifications > Messages > Notifications toggle
dataflow 5mo ago
How about instead of prompting to enable notifications, you leave a small banner or other unintrusive/non-annoying UI noting that they're off, which users can tap in order to learn more about how to reenable them? For an app that prides itself on privacy, it's kind of crazy that you're making it so easy to accidentally blow it.
- illiac786 5mo ago
  That would drive me nuts. I do not want a banner permanently on I cannot remove. And before someone suggests it: If the banner can be removed, you’re back to having lots of complaints for users that did not realise they turned off notifications.
  - dataflow 5mo ago
    Doesn't have to be prominent and doesn't even have to be a banner. The ultimate point is to make it hard to reenable by accident, and to not make it annoying. Lots of ways to do that.
    - illiac786 5mo ago
      True. Lots of ways to do it wrong too. I have seen this done wrong significantly more often than right. Anyway, I agree it’s worth a try.
peacebeard 5mo ago
Making the product worse for everybody because a minority can’t manage their own settings is a terrible strategy.
- cbg0 5mo ago
  Do most people keep the notifications disabled for their messaging apps?
  - tristor 5mo ago
    I disable notifications on every app that is not on the critical path to me earning a living. Notifications are largely unnecessary. Either you are actively engaged with something, in which case you didn't need the notification, or you are doing something else and don't need the distraction, in which case you didn't need the notification. Only my employer gets a right to demand my time during work hours, which is why notifications are enabled during work hours for work apps. We as a society have gotten way too comfortable expecting every single person to be available at all times to provide us some kind of immediate response. Let people live. If I'm hiking through the woods with my camera doing bird photography, even if you're my best friend you can wait until I get back to my car and manually check my messages, I don't need a notification. If it's an emergency, dial my number and call me, which will make my phone ring. Novel concept, I know.
    - sneak 5mo ago
      Signal notifications are the #1 thing in the critical path for me earning a living. Isn’t this normal in our industry?
      - fwip 5mo ago
        Nope.
      - tristor 5mo ago
        Okay, well you should probably have them enabled then. For me, Signal is for personal messaging. My work messages are mostly Slack, Webex, and Teams.
elevation 5mo ago
> notification reliability is always a top support complaint I know octogenarians who use signal daily. "You called me and it didn't ring" or "messaged and it didn't beep" are definitely the top support complaints I receive. Thanks for being sensitive to this use case.
jacquesm 5mo ago
Any time after a user switches it off on purpose is too aggressive.

johnnyApplePRNG 5mo ago

NSL, perhaps?

ryandrake 5mo ago

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced into serving the software's interest and solving the developers' problems. EDIT: Looks like a developer confirmed this in a sibling comment already: It nags you because that solves their support problem.

krunck 5mo ago
The Proton Drive app keeps asking me to turn on backups of photos and video. There is no option to say "don't ask again." I guess they /want/ more storage to be used? Or is there a support issue they are trying to deal with?
- pigggg 5mo ago
  Yes Google constantly asks me to backup my pictures to their platform No, I don't want this. But regularly when I go to my photos it'll pop up with a box asking and the default option is yes please back up. Sad.
  - bryan_w 5mo ago
    You know you can just use a different picture app?
- ryandrake 5mo ago
  "Consent" has become this mystical foreign concept to software developers. If the world of computing was a night club, "Silicon Valley" would be that creepy guy who goes up to everyone asking "Do you want to dance? [YES | Ask Me Later]".
- alpaca128 5mo ago
  They probably want to avoid situations where a customer turns off backups, then loses data and makes it the problem of support. But it would be nice to have a "don't ask again" option regardless, even if it's hidden in settings.

mackman 5mo ago

Messaging platforms where people receive and promptly respond to messages are more successful in the long run. That's why SMS overtook email. If you own a messaging platform there isn't anything inherently nefarious about pushing people to enable notifications.

Forgeties79 5mo ago
There is if they have repeatedly said no
- snhjsdrhrsh 5mo ago
  imagine someone shows up to your door and tries to sell you garbage. you ask him to leave and he says he'll show up again soon. and these idiots defend this behavior. at the end of the day, the people on this site are muppets, they just dont like facebook is all.
  - Forgeties79 5mo ago
    What I don’t understand is why anyone can’t imagine scenarios where folks don’t want to turn on notifications. Also, why on a site where all I ever read is “users should be allowed to choose, users should be allowed to control their computers, users should have their consent respected,” etc. (especially when Linux comes up) are we seeing “no, users should keep getting nagged to turn on a feature they explicitly said they don’t want to use”? It’s not like it’s hard to go enable notifications. They can easily change their mind.
  - shooly 5mo ago
    Does Signal magically show up on people's phones and open itself at random point in time? I have a suspicion, that you might not be too good at this whole "making analogies" thing.

benhurmarcel 5mo ago

Reminds me what Whatsapp if you set up a 2FA PIN, which forces you to type it about every week to check if you forgot it. So annoying.

fn-mote 5mo ago
Sorry, I really cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not. One of the TOTP apps had a periodic test that you still knew the paraphrase. It started frequent and then backed off to like once a month. There’s definitely a benefit even if it’s annoying.
- OutOfHere 5mo ago
  It depends on whether one has it stored in a password manager or not. If stored, there is no benfit. Giving users a choice would be better.
- dwedge 5mo ago
  That app was authy by Twilio. Twilio screwed over everyone using that app
- benhurmarcel 5mo ago
  That’s not sarcasm and it doesn’t allow any backup, it literally just to make sure you didn’t forget the PIN. It’s once a week, forever. It’s a good way to make sure people don’t activate 2FA. https://faq.whatsapp.com/1278661612895630/ https://faq.whatsapp.com/1278661612895630/ > WhatsApp will regularly ask you to enter your PIN as a reminder. As long as you don't reset the PIN, you will get a reminder once a week.

SwtCyber 5mo ago

Pretty sure that's just iOS behavior + app design. If notifications are off, apps will occasionally prompt again to make sure you didn't disable them by accident or miss something

jshier 5mo ago
No, the OS will not do that, nor is the developer able to trigger the system prompt again when they detect the user has notifications off. Only thing they can do is present their own prompt and link out to the Settings app for the app's settings. Can't even deep link to the app's notification settings.