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4D Doom
- superxpro12 6mo agoOk... he was right. It broke my brain.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- scordata 6mo agoThis is an awesome experience. Very useful tool to get exposure to thinking in "higher" dimensions!
- xnx 6mo agoBetter title: HYPERHELL, 4-Dimensional DOOM-Like
- gerdesj 6mo agoIs that the geordie version?
- knolan 6mo agoI found 4D Golf a great game to explore higher dimensional space.
- noman-land 6mo agoGot a link?
- AStrangeMorrow 6mo agoI imagine they are taking about 4D golf by CodeParade, as seen here: https://youtu.be/y53UNskR-zU?si=iUfCkxYqkACx955t https://youtu.be/y53UNskR-zU?si=iUfCkxYqkACx955t Steam link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2147950/4D_Golf https://store.steampowered.com/app/2147950/4D_Golf The person goes over quite a few technical details on their Youtube, though they talk about a bunch of other coding experiments too.
- danbruc 6mo agoSome of the scenes from the video remind me of Manifold Garden [1] - only 3D but a 3-torus [2] and you can change the direction of gravity, i.e. what is up and down. And also visually beautiful. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/473950/Manifold_Garden/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/473950/Manifold_Garden/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-torus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-torus
- extraduder_ire 6mo agoThe additional code he wrote to make a 4d game work in the Unity game engine is available on github and MIT licensed: https://github.com/HackerPoet/Engine4D https://github.com/HackerPoet/Engine4D When I first saw the title, I assumed this game was implemented in the same engine. I believe there are a few already.
- bstsb 6mo agothis is visually interesting, but crucially it's also actually fun to play. i managed to kill three enemies before succumbing to my fate
- danbruc 6mo agoNow waiting since 16 years for the release of Miegakure [1][2][3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miegakure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miegakure [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yW--eQaA2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yW--eQaA2I [3] https://xkcd.com/721/ https://xkcd.com/721/
- mrmckizzle 6mo agoIt's still on my steam wishlist. https://store.steampowered.com/app/355750/Miegakure_Hide__Reveal/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/355750/Miegakure_Hide__Re...
- danbruc 6mo agoOn mine, too, forgot that link.
- hiccuphippo 6mo agoOh yeah. I remember it every couple of years just to go to wikipedia and see it's not been released yet.
- UltraSane 6mo agoI wish I could stay focused on a project that long.
- moralestapia 6mo agoThe guy is just a troll. I doubt there's an actual game beyond a cool tech demo. They haven't showed anything for like a decade.
- saberience 6mo agoThat's not 4D
- lanternfish 6mo agoWhy not?
- bsza 6mo agoThen what is it? I'm seeing 4x5 transform matrices in the code, looks 4D enough to me.
- integralid 6mo agoThat's exactly 4D. Just like "non euclidean"[1], this term is often abused in entertainment to mean something else, but the post here is about the real 4d world rendering. [1] For this check out zenorogue work btw
- braelyn 6mo agothat was incredibly cool
- chronolitus 6mo agoYou have a great website
- somat 6mo agoI just watched the associated dev video And if I understand it, what the author is doing is kind of interesting. The sensor to see a 3d scene is 2d(eye or camera). What is being done here is simulating a 3d sensor(for a 4d world) then we are looking at this 3d sensor using our 2d sensors (eyes). I don't know if this is the common way of rendering these 4d physics simulations. But it is the first I have heard it described this way. It is also why the narrative of the game focuses on eyes, because that is what it is doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKDMcLW9OnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKDMcLW9OnI
- gentleman11 6mo agoI don't want to be the guy who has to use this level editor (although, in a similar way, doom was 2.5d, and so the level editor could essentially be 2d, so maybe it's not so bad?) If this is 4d doom, i wonder what 4d quake could be
- chronolitus 5mo agoHonestly the level editor was just me drawing on some paper, then typing out poses and coordinates into the matrices. But if you want to see a 4D level editor, the dev of 4D Golf made his own, love to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pTBSafvQ7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pTBSafvQ7Y
- UltraSane 6mo agoReminds me a bit of a guy who created a functional virtual camera in Blender with lenses and film layers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE9rEQAGpLw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE9rEQAGpLw
- AndrewDucker 6mo agoNitpick - your eyes are, in combination, a 3d sensor. Individually they're 2d sensors, but together they can detect three dimensional information.
- dtj1123 6mo ago
- gipp 6mo agoThe problem with these attempts always seems to be that you can see in dimensions 1-3, but never in dimension 4, so any movement or exploration along that axis is always just blind fumbling. The extra dimension is not equivalent to the others The only answer would seem to be an extra axis of rotation, but (a) doesnt work well with existing input methods, and (b) would be even more of a brain-breaker
- jitl 6mo agoI think you could approximate a 4d projection onto a 3d display, much like we approximate a 3d projection onto a 2d display. So perhaps one could enjoy a fun and intuitive game of 4d doom if you have an appropriately fancy volumetric display. Pity they're so rare/expensive.
- Nevermark 6mo agoExactly. I prefer my 4D games projected into my Vision Pro’s surrounding 3D space. Please.
- tenthirtyam 6mo agoI've commented elsewhere about an 4D maze (https://urticator.net/maze/ https://urticator.net/maze/ - I am not the author) which mimics this by creating two 3D retinas in red/blue stereoscopic mode - when you cross your eyes just right you see a single volumetric 3D retina.
- heyethan 6mo ago[flagged]
- martin-t 6mo agoCould transparency help? Ordinarily, a 3D scene rendered in 2D only allows you to see a cone from your eye up to the first surface the ray encounters, thus defining the 2D projection which you see. But you can make the surfaces transparent so the ray continues, and each additional surface adds a bit to the final pixel. This can look like a mess if you stand still but if you wiggle your movement left and right (or any other direction), your brain suddenly manages to process it into the full 3D structure. Can something like this be done in 4D?
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- keyle 6mo agoIt's cool and all and I typically enjoy lowres renditions... unless, it actually impacts gameplay. Since the gameplay is so much about 4D, clarity in what you see becomes more important and the extremely low resolution actually impairs the player rather than serve a positive (typically 'leaves more to the imagination'). It wouldn't take much of an effort to double or triple the resolution which I think would help the gameplay.
- adzm 6mo agoAgreed this is not even 4d Wolfenstein but still a really neat concept
- somat 6mo agoThe reason it is so low res is actually more interesting than simple aesthetic choice. Think about the sensor(or eye) needed to view a 3d scene, it is 2d right. So this is a 3d sensor(voxels) for a simulated 4d camera. and then we are looking at the 3d sensor. (with our 2d sensor(eyes)), it's sensor inception. So it is as low res as it is because it is a bunch of voxels simulating a 4d camera. The dev put out an interesting video on the topic.
- __alexs 6mo agoThere have been other 4D video games with actually good performance though.
- Citizen_Lame 6mo agoThey should have used Gaussian Splats, surely this would reduce processing overhead.
- ninju 6mo agoHere the video (from the bottom of the page) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKDMcLW9OnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKDMcLW9OnI
- fxtentacle 6mo agoFully agree. The low-res makes this unnecessarily hard to navigate. Which is a downside if your core gameplay is to teach players to navigate in a challenging environment.
- jitl 6mo agoI read a novel when I was 14 or so who's premise is all about creatures inhabiting higher-dimensional space called "The Boy Who Reversed Himself" by William Sleator. I loved Sleator's books, they introduced me to really interesting concepts from theoretical physics as a youngun. If you find 4D Doom intriguing, I encourage you to borrow the book from your favorite ebook library, it's a quick fun read (at least, I remember it that way).
- Darmani 6mo agoFun fact: William Sleator's brother is the famous computer scientist Danny Sleator, inventor of the splay tree.
- UltraSane 6mo agoPart of Greg Egan novel Diaspora takes place in a universe with 5 spatial dimensions.
- ConceptJunkie 6mo agoI'm still trying to wrap my head around the statement in the book (IIRC) that it takes 8 legs to be stable in 5 dimensions. I'd assumed it would be 6, but this is a layman's intuition. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Awesome book regardless.
- chronolitus 6mo agoLoved this book! Part of this project started from wanting to make 4D creatures and train them to walk with RL. One interesting fact I learned is that ants would probably have 8 legs in 4D. Why? Well, apparently ants have 6 legs because this allows tripod-gait, a simple leg movement that always keeps 3 stable points on the ground[1] In 4D, you'd need 4 points on the ground, hence tetra-pod gait (4+4 legs). You could of course do with less, I'd guess even as low as 1-2 if you have lots of muscles and good balance. [1] https://dugas.ch/4d_creatures/tripod_gait.html https://dugas.ch/4d_creatures/tripod_gait.html
- forthac 6mo agoIf you're on firefox, go to about:config and set dom.webgpu.enabled to "true".
- omershapira 6mo agoShameless plug: Horizon (Before the name got saturated), a 4D third-person game https://youtu.be/R6qTi3TCM2U https://youtu.be/R6qTi3TCM2U
- Brendinooo 6mo agoHis dev log linked from GitHub is really neat. Mind-bending stuff.
- Narishma 6mo agoWhy does it require WebGPU when it looks like something that would run fine in software on a 386?
- amlib 6mo agoI find it fascinating that it turns into a "descent like" (6dof fps) when using the ability to "peek" the 4th dimension.
- heftig 6mo agoThe perspective shifts so that the up-down direction becomes the hidden dimension. So the ceiling and floor disappear (and you have trouble avoiding lava) and you only see the walls of the space.
- dluan 6mo agoI feel like now that I'm older, my brain just can't fully understand it say as quickly if I were younger. Makes me wonder if younger more plastic brains can adjust to having to juggle more dimensions than crochety old ones like mine with very rigid 3D grooves baked in. Or brains from other animals. I guess taken to the logical extreme, what does the brain of someone/thing that's good at playing this (or any game of N dimensions) look like?
- fredrikholm 6mo agoIf you don't mind me asking, how old are you, and how did this progress? I'm in my mid thirties and am noticing some minor deterioration, but I'm writing it off to loss of sleep due to having small kids. My curiosity is if this is like you suggest, ingrained patterns, or if there is actual slow down with age. I hear different opinions and am finding it difficult to navigate as I deal with my own, albeit mild, aging.
- dluan 6mo agoMid 30s, also have kid and sleep loss but not as bad as before. I actually noticed serious mental decline when I was burned out in my late 20s. There were real physical symptoms like not being able to look at a text editor for more than 2 minutes. Post recovery of that, I actually feel like my brain recovered a lot once I started learning languages very seriously (mandarin and japanese), starting a few years ago. Brain feels healthy now but I'm acutely aware of where it's not as sharp as before. Playing around with this felt a little like when my brain is trying to build a new grammar dictionary.
- ConceptJunkie 6mo agoI feel the opposite. I'm 61 and I feel like I understand ideas more quickly than I ever did before, so much so that I'm surprised at how shallowly I thought about some things in the past. While there is definitely something to the plasticity of young brains, for example in language acquisition, or the fact that the Fields Medal eligibility ages out at 40, I believe it's not a linear thing and not a one-way thing.
- gloflo 6mo agoIt's not actually Doom, but a Doom-like.
- backspace_ 6mo agowith those low res graphics, I'd say Wolfenstein like
- razorbeamz 6mo agoThe AI generated logo image is a very big put-off.
- chronolitus 6mo agoI'd definitely prefer a human made one. If you know any artists willing to make a proper version of the cover art, I'd be happy to commission one (paid, of course).
- amelius 6mo agoAt least project it onto a 3D screen.
- chronolitus 6mo agoCan't wait for the hardware. Only a matter of time until someone makes the first 4D game projected to a 3D hologram.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- dalmo3 6mo agoReminds me of this 4D minecraft clone: https://youtu.be/u8LMyWcKL_c?si=XZrCdSSSk9PtpNIP https://youtu.be/u8LMyWcKL_c?si=XZrCdSSSk9PtpNIP
- tenthirtyam 6mo agoI can't play this online (no webgpu) but from the description and comments here it sounds like the 4D Maze from 2002! https://urticator.net/maze/ https://urticator.net/maze/ The advantage of this one is that it offers a stereoscopic (red/blue) view of the 3D retina. Not sure if this one does too.
- chronolitus 6mo agoThanks for the link, 4D Maze is amazing and I had somehow never seen it. Also, here's a CPU-based prototype that led to the Hyperhell engine: https://dugas.ch/4d_creatures/4d_camera.html https://dugas.ch/4d_creatures/4d_camera.html
- npodbielski 6mo agoEnabling webGPU on Firefox still does not allow it to run. It worked on Chrome but I feels kinda like it was not worth it. Maybe if you could change resolution to something better. And starting every time from the same room, through some conversation with NPC? Feels like I have better things to do.
- MisterTea 6mo agoPerhaps Ive been missing out on the 4D gaming revolution but I do not understand what the 4th dimension is here. Feels like I am missing out on a lot of context.
- pasquinelli 6mo agoit's a fourth spatial dimension. if you imagine a cube, it has width, height, and depth. a 4d cube would have width, height, depth, and zhlerp, which is its size along a fourth spatial dimension. in three dimensions you can go forward and backward, left and right, up and down. in four dimensions you can go forward and backward, left and right, up and down, and zlep and wizz, moving along the fourth spatial dimension.
- DoctorMacArthur 6mo agoCant wait to see ZeroMaster speedrun this
- gray_wolf_99 6mo agoIts really a cool project, i loved playing doom game in my childhood hood, and i loved this fast paced Action FPP game…. plus the retro looks great, Hey , did any one played “Total over dose”?
- komodo99 6mo agointeresting, very cool demo, but its not the 4d that hurts my brain and/or soul, its an FPS with an inverted X mouse axis... its like the backwards bike, sure it can be done, but my wiring isn't rigged for that!
- vistawasgreat 6mo ago[dead]
- burnt-resistor 6mo agoNeat. Some random unsolicited feedback: Doesn't work on iPadOS/iOS without an external keyboard, and the arrow keys don't work probably because there's no apparent ability to go full screen or capture focus of scrolling keys. The wasd etc. controls sort of work but are confusing and don't work as expected. Probably needs a full screen toggle and a virtual keypad for touchscreen UX at a minimum. Toasts should probably appear in the window rather than below because it messes with the viewport/layout and it starts scrolling unexpectedly. Btw, it runs on iPadOS/iOS 18.x by turning on WebGPU under Settings > Apps > Safari > Advanced > Feature Flags