6 ms·
Small tool shop, burning VC money, true. "Tiny part of the Python ecosystem" is an understatement given how much impact uv has made alone.
by druml 6mo ago
Small tool shop, burning VC money, true. "Tiny part of the Python ecosystem" is an understatement given how much impact uv has made alone.
- Hamuko 6mo agoDo you have any statistics for that?
- pm90 6mo agoanecdotally every place ive worked at has switched over and never looked back.
- shawnwall 6mo agobeen in the python game a long time and i've seen so many tools in this space come and go over the years. i still rely on good ol pip and have had no issues. that said, we utilize mypy and ruff, and have moved to pyproject etc to remotely keep up with the times.
- jitl 6mo agouv solved it, it will be the only tool people use in 2 more years. if you’re a python shop / expert then you can do pip etc but uv turned incidental python + deps from a huge PITA for the rest of us, to It Just Works simplicity on the same level or better than Golang.
- 1718627440 6mo agoI don't want software on my computer, that just downloads and installs random stuff. This is the job of the OS in particular the package manager.
- mirekrusin 6mo agoThen don't use it?
- QuantumNomad_ 6mo agoWhat’s the point of constraining oneself to what is in the OS package manager? I like to keep my dependencies up to date. The versions in the OS package manager are much older. And let’s say you constrain yourself to your OS package manager. What about the people on different distros? Their package managers are unlikely to have the exact same versions of your deps that your OS has.
- 1718627440 6mo ago> What’s the point of constraining oneself to what is in the OS package manager? I like to keep my dependencies up to date. The versions in the OS package manager are much older. I favor stability and the stripping of unwanted features (e.g. telemetry) by my OS vendor over cutting edge software. If I really need that I install it into /usr/local, that it what this is for after all. > And let’s say you constrain yourself to your OS package manager. What about the people on different distros? Their package managers are unlikely to have the exact same versions of your deps that your OS has. This is a reason to select the OS. Software shouldn't require exact versions, but should stick to stable interfaces.
- zbentley 6mo agoDo you not use non-OS package managers? If not, do you develop software with source dependencies (go, java, node, rust, python)? If so, how do you handle acquiring those dependencies—by hand or using a tool?
- 1718627440 6mo ago> Do you not use non-OS package managers? Mostly no, sometimes I give up and still use pip as a separate user. > If not, do you develop software with source dependencies (go, java, node, rust, python)? If so, how do you handle acquiring those dependencies—by hand or using a tool I haven't felt the need to use Go, the only Java software I use is in the OS repo. I don't want to use JS software for other reasons. This is one of the reasons why I don't like Rust rewrites. Python dependencies are very often in the OS repo. If there is anything else, I compile it from source and I curse when software doesn't use or adheres to the standard of the GNU build system.
- pdntspa 6mo agoThen can they please figure out some way of invoking it that doesnt require prefixing everything with 'uv'
- tomrod 6mo agoalias in ~/.zshrc?
- malcolmgreaves 6mo agouv run bash/zsh/your shell of choice
- cjp 6mo agodirenv, .envrc, "layout uv" https://github.com/direnv/direnv/wiki/Python#uv https://github.com/direnv/direnv/wiki/Python#uv
- maleldil 6mo agoYou can source the virtualenv like normal.
- arw0n 6mo agoFor any command, you can create an 'alias' in your shell config. That way you can get rid of the prefix.
- ghshephard 6mo agoSolved with direnv. Also - in my .bashrc in all of my (many) clients: $ type uvi uvl uvv uvi is a function uvi () { uv pip install $@ } uvl is a function uvl () { uv pip list } uvv is a function uvv () { uv venv; cat > .envrc <<EOF source .venv/bin/activate EOF direnv allow }
- duskdozer 6mo agoThat would defeat the purpose of creating and expanding their brand.
- tomrod 6mo agoGeospatial tends to be the Achilles heel for python projects for me. Fiona is a wiley beast of a package, and GDAL too. Conda helped some but was always so slow. Pip almost uniformly fails in this area for me.
- crimsoneer 6mo agoYup, the fact UV just installed geopandas out of the box with no issues blew my mind.
- _moof 6mo agoSame. It's game-changing - leaps and bounds above every previous attempt to make Python's packaging, dependency management, and dev workflow easy. I don't know anyone who has tried uv and not immediately thrown every other tool out the window.
- macNchz 6mo agoI use uv here and there but have a bunch of projects using regular pip with pip-tools to do a requirements.in -> requirements.txt as a lockfile workflow that I've never seen enough value in converting over. uv is clearly much faster but that's a pretty minor consideration unless I were for some reason changing project dependencies all day long. Perhaps it never grabbed me as much because I've been running basically everything in Docker for years now, which takes care of Python versioning issues and caches the dependency install steps, so they only take a long time if they've changed. I also like containers for all of the other project setup and environment scaffolding stuff they roll up, e.g. having a consistently working GDAL environment available instantly for a project I haven't worked on in a long time.
- imp0cat 6mo ago2 things: First, you can (and should) replace your `pip install` with `uv pip install` for instant speed boost. This matters even for Docker builds. Second, you can use uv to build and install to a separate venv in a Docker container and then, thanks to the wonders of multistage Docker builds, copy that venv to a new container and have a fully working minimal image in no time, with almost no effort.
- jengland 6mo agouv has almost 2x the number of monthly downloads Poetry has. - https://pypistats.org/packages/poetry https://pypistats.org/packages/poetry - https://pypistats.org/packages/uv https://pypistats.org/packages/uv In the 2024 Python developer survey, 18% of the ecosystem used Poetry. When I opened this manifold question[0], I'm pretty sure uv was about half of Poetry downloads. Estimating from these numbers, probably about 30% of the ecosystem is using `uv` now. We'll get better numbers when the 2025 Python developer survey is published. Also see this: https://biggo.com/news/202510140723_uv-overtakes-pip-in-ci-usage https://biggo.com/news/202510140723_uv-overtakes-pip-in-ci-u... [0]: https://manifold.markets/JeremiahEngland/will-uv-surpass-poetry-in-monthly-p https://manifold.markets/JeremiahEngland/will-uv-surpass-poe...
- rob 6mo agoJust a tiny project with over 100 million downloads every month, over 4 million every day. No big deal. Just a small shop, don't overstate its importance. https://pypistats.org/packages/uv https://pypistats.org/packages/uv
- throwaway63467 6mo agoThe “requests” package gets downloaded one billion times every month, should that be a multi billion dollar VC company as well? It’s a package manager and other neat tooling, it’s great but it’s hardly the essence of what makes Python awesome, it’s one of the many things that makes this ecosystem flourish. If OpenAI would enshittify it people would just fork or move on, that’s all I’m saying, it’s not in any way a single point of failure for the Python ecosystem.
- druml 6mo ago> the essence of what makes Python awesome This is not the point of uv or any good package manager. The point is what prevents Python to suck. For a long time package management had been horrible in Python compared what you could see in other languages.
- FuckButtons 6mo agoSure, but if tomorrow uv and ruff ceased to exist, we could all go back to any number of other solutions.
- crimsoneer 6mo agoEurgh, I do not want to ever touch Poetry or pyenv again, thank you very much.
- tomrod 6mo agoMaybe you could. I would stare longingly into the void, wondering if I can ever work another python project after having experienced uv, ruff, and ty. Such an outcome would make me wonder regarding the wisdom of "It is better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all."
- swexbe 6mo agoVC money bailing out other VCs. A tale as old as time.
- victorbjorklund 6mo agoThey have some nice ideas. But if they turn to shit you can just fork their tools and use that instead.
- __MatrixMan__ 6mo agoAgreed. Maybe there needs to be some nonprofit watchdog which helps identify those cases in their early stages and helps bootstrap open forks. I'd fund to a sort of open capture protection savings account if I believed it would help ensure continuity of support from the things I rely on.
- TeMPOraL 6mo agoRight. If anything, this "tiny part" has pretty much taken over Python and turned it from OSS BDFL language into a company-backed one (like Erlang, Scala, C#).
- oytis 6mo agoI am still not sure why everyone jumped on uv. Sure, it's quicker than pip, but an installation rarely takes so long as to become annoying. Anyway, pip is still there, so whatever impact they have made can be rolled back if they try to pull the rug
- duskdozer 6mo agoI'm not sure but it seems to be because of dependency management behaviors I find confusing. Like, I found out that apparently people or packages would just do this `pip freeze > requirements.txt` or otherwise just not pay attention to what version limitations there are. It's not something that I ever really ran into much though