9 ms·

This _all_ (waves hands around) sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. Writing _all_ (waves h

by hi_hi 6mo ago

This _all_ (waves hands around) sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. Writing _all_ (waves hands around various llm wrapper git repos) these frameworks and harnesses, built on top of ever changing models sure doesn't feel sensible. I don't know what the best way of using these things is, but from my personal experience, the defaults get me a looong way. Letting these things churn away overnight, burning money in the process, with no human oversight seems like something we'll collectively look back at in a few years and laugh about, like using PHP!

mewpmewp2 6mo ago
I am not laughing about PHP. To this very day many of my best projects are built on PHP. And while last 7 years I have spent in full stack JavaScript/TypeScript environment it has never produced the same things I was actually able to do with PHP. I actually feel that things I built 15 years ago in PHP were better than anything I am trying to achieve with modern things that gets outdated every 6 months.
- jack_pp 6mo ago
  what in God's Name could you do in PHP that you can't do in a modern framework?
  - mewpmewp2 6mo ago
    You can build those things in modern frameworks, it will just be more headache and will feel outdated in 6 months.
    - the_lonely_time 6mo ago
      Where are my backbone apps? In the trash? Me ember apps? Next to them. My create-react-apps? On top of those. My Next apps? Being trashed as we speak. My rails apps? Online and making money every year with minimal upgrade time. What the hell was I thinking.
      - tdeck 6mo ago
        I'm guessing you avoided the CoffeeScript era of Rails, which is a good thing.
    - Gigachad 6mo ago
      6 years ago I was writing apps in typescript and react, if I was starting a new project today I'd write it in typescript and react.
      - ehnto 6mo ago
        People bicker about PHP and Javascript, sorry Typescript, like they aren't both mule languages peoppe pick up to get work done. They both matured really well through years of production use. They are in the same group, similar pedigree. If you were programming purely for the art of it, you would have had time to discover much nicer languages than either, but that's not what most people are doing so it doesn't really matter. They're different but they're about as good as eachother.
  - tbossanova 6mo ago
    Nothing; but PHP, in experienced hands, will be waaay more productive for small-to-medium things. One issue is that experienced hands are increasingly hard to come by. Truly big, complicated things, built by large teams or numbers of teams, teams with a lot of average brains or AIs trained on average brains, will be better off in something like Typescript/React. And everyone wants to work on the big complicated stuff. So the "modern frameworks" will continue to dominate while smaller, more niche shops will wonder why they waste their time.
    - jack_pp 6mo ago
      I worked at a startup, they built their API in PHP because it was easy and fast. Now they're successful, app doesn't scale, high latency etc. What does their php code do? 95% of it is calling a DB. You're telling me today with LLM power multiplier it's THAT much faster to write in PHP compared to something that can actually have a future?
      - arjvik 6mo ago
        by future do you mean Future<T> or metaphorical future? :)
        withinboredom 6mo ago
        I see what you did there.
      - rurban 6mo ago
        PHP did better than python and perl. Python is doomed. PHP got a good jit already, a good OO lately, good frameworks, stable extensions. It has a company behind. Unlike python or ruby which break right and left all the time on updates. you have to use bunkers of venvs, without any security updates. A nightmare. PHP can scale and has a future.
        Incipient 6mo ago
        Python is doomed? That's new. You use python docker images pinned to a stable version (3.11 etc), and between bigger versions, you test and handle any breaking changes. I feel like this approach applies to pretty much every language? Who on earth raw dogs on "language:latest" and just hopes for the best? Granted I wouldn't be running Facebook's backend on something like this. But i feel that isn't a problem 95% of people need to deal with.
  - dheera 6mo ago
    Not have to "build" anything. You edit code and it is already deployed on your dev instance. Deploying to production is just scp -rv * production:/var/www/ Beautifully simple. No npm build crap.
    - jack_pp 6mo ago
      You trade having to compile for actually having code that can scale
      - lelanthran 6mo ago
        It scales just fine the same way everything else scales: put a load balancer in front of multiple instances of your app.
      - ericd 6mo ago
        Not sure what you’re talking about, I scaled to millions of users on a pair of boxes with PHP, and its page generation time absolutely crushed Rails/Django times. Apache with mod PHP auto scales wonderfully.
      - vachina 6mo ago
        It can scale by the virtue of spending a lot less time processing the request
      - spiderfarmer 6mo ago
        You don't know anything about the PHP ecosystem and it shows.
  - tjoff 6mo ago
    Making instant loading and user respecting sites.
  - baq 6mo ago
    Don’t confuse php the language with php the way of webmaster 2006 vintage.
    - spiderfarmer 6mo ago
      Those webmasters built the web a lot of people are now nostalgic about already.
  - azangru 6mo ago
    Could you give examples of the modern frameworks that you have in mind?
- eqvinox 6mo ago
  The comparison target for PHP is IMHO a good Python web framework, e.g. Django being the most popular one. I still don't understand how JavaScript is ever considered viable, TypeScript makes it workable I guess…
- giva 6mo ago
  I feel like today an engineer with a modern framework and AI con produce in an afternoon a product that deliver real value, something that 25 years ago would have required a full hour by a high schooler with MS Access.
  - vardalab 6mo ago
    I was building awesome things with Access 20 years ago. I loved that thing. I wasn't even a software engineer. I was in the EE, but I needed a way to track process and it definitely outperformed. And the best thing, it didn't cost us anything. Everybody already had access, lol. I had 40 people use it in production, manufacturing cutting edge stuff. Definitely beat spreadsheets because Access gave you gui for operators.
serial_dev 6mo ago
> sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. Not if you are an AI gold rush shovel salesman. From the article: > I've run Claude Code workshops for over 100 engineers in the last six months
- p0w3n3d 6mo ago
  Yeah, my colleague recently said "hey I've burnt through $200 in Claude in 3 days". And he was prompting. Max 8hrs/day Imagine what would happen if AI was prompting. As I like this allegory really much, AI is (or should be) like and exoskeleton, should help people do things. If you step out of your car putting it first in drive mode, and going to sleep, next day it will be farther, but the question is, is it still on road
  - alexey-pelykh 6mo ago
    [dead]
    - aray07 6mo ago
      Agreed. The spec file is context. Writing acceptance criteria before you prompt provides the context the agent needs to not go off in the wrong direction. Human leverage just moved up and the plan/spec is the most important step. Parallelism on top of bad context just gets you more wrong answers faster
    - robutsume 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6mo ago
        https://github.com/safety-quotient-lab/psychology-agent https://github.com/safety-quotient-lab/psychology-agent <- I've been exploring ways to track decisions, making some interesting findings, at the homelab scale, at least. The cognitive architecture, so to speak, for the LLM can make a huge difference - triggers and skills go a long way when combined with shell scripts that dual-write.
godelski 6mo ago
I can't believe we're back to advocating for TDD. It was a failed paradigm that last few times we tried it. This time isn't any different because the fundamental flaw has always been the same: tests aren't proofs, they don't have complete coverage. Before anyone gets too confused, I love tests. They're great. They help a lot. But to believe they prove correctness is absolutely laughable. Even the most general tests are very narrow. I'm sure they help LLMs just as they help us, but they're not some cure all. You have to think long and hard about problems and shouldn't let tests drive your development. They're guardrails for checking bonds and reduce footguns. Oh, who could have guessed, Dijkstra wrote about program completeness. (No, this isn't the foolishness of natural language programming, but it is about formalism ;) https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD288.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD288...
- computerdork 6mo ago
  Hmm, not so sure TDD is a failed paradigm. Maybe it isn't a pancea, but it is seems like it's changed how software development is done. Especially for backend software and also for tools, seems like automated tests can cover quite a lot of use cases a system encounters. Their coverage can become so good that they'll allow you to make major changes to the system, and as long as they pass the automated tests, you can feel relatively confident the system will work in prod (have seen this many times). But maybe you're separating automated testing and TDD as two separate concepts?
  - prerok 6mo ago
    Indeed, they are two separate concepts. I write lots of automated tests, but almost always after the development is finished. The only exception is when reproducing a bug, where I first write the test that reproduces it, then I fix the code. TDD is about developing tests first then writing the code to make the tests pass. I know several people who gave it an honest try but gave up a few months later. They do advocate everyone should try the approach, though, simply because it will make you write production code that's easier to test later on.
    - 6mo ago
brobdingnagians 6mo ago
I would encourage my competitors to use AI agents on their codebase as much as possible. Make sure every new feature has it, lots of velocity! Run those suckers day and night. Don't review it, just make sure the feature is there! Then when the music stops, the AI companies hit the economic realities, go insolvent, and they are left with no one who understands a sprawling tangled web of code that is 80% AI generated, then we'll see who laughs last.
- evrenesat 6mo ago
  Qwen3 Coder Next and Qwen3.5-35B-A3B already very good and can be run on today's higher end home computers with good speed. Tomorrow's machines will not be slower but models are keep getting more efficient. A good sw engineer still would be valuable in Tomorrow's world but not as a software assembler.
  - ruszki 6mo ago
    Even cutting edge models are not very good. They are not even on mediocre level. Don’t get me wrong, they are improving, and they are awesome, but they are nowhere near good yet. Vibe coded projects have more bugs than features, their architecture and design system are terrible, and their tests are completely useless about half the time. If you want a good product you need to rewrite almost everything what’s written by LLMs. Probably this won’t be the case in a few years, but now even “very good” LLMs are not very good at all.
    - rwmj 6mo ago
      Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is very much my experience. When it matters (like, customer data is on the line) vibecoded projects are not just hilariously bad, but put you in legal danger. We've so far found that Claude code is fine as a kind of better Coverity for uncovering memory leaks and similar. You have to check its work very carefully because about 1 time in 5 it just gets stuff wrong. It's great that it gets stuff right 4 times in 5 and produces natural code that fits into the style of the existing project, but it's nothing earth-shattering. We've had tools to detect memory leaks before. We had someone attempt to translate one of our existing projects into Rust and the result was just wrong at a fundamental level. It did compile and pass its own tests, so if you had no idea about the problem space you might even have accepted its work.
dwedge 6mo ago
It being a lot of work is why they didn't do it at all for weeks and still, without self reflection, wrote that they care about the code quality of the code they hadn't looked at or tested
brushfoot 6mo ago
> sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. It's not more work; it's a convergence of roles. BA/PO/QA/SWE are merging. AI has automated aspects of those roles that have made the traditional separation of concerns less desirable. A new hybrid role is emerging. The person writing these acceptance criteria can be the one guiding the AI to develop them. So now we have dev-BAs or BA-devs or however you'd like to frame it. They're closer to the business than a dev might have been or closer to development than a BA might have been. The point is, smaller teams are able to play wider now.
- otabdeveloper4 6mo ago
  > It's not more work It literally is. You're spending weeks of effort babysitting harnesses and evaluating models while shipping nothing at all.
  - brushfoot 6mo ago
    That hasn't been my experience, as a "ship or die" solopreneur. It takes work to set up these new processes and procedures, but it's like building a factory; you're able to produce more once they're in place. And you're able to play wider, which is why the small team is king. Roles are converging both in technologies and in functions. That leads to more software that's tailored to niche use cases.
    - otabdeveloper4 6mo ago
      > you're able to produce more once they're in place Cool story, unfortunately the proof is not in the pudding and none of this fantom x10 vibe-coded software actually works or can be downloaded and used by real people. P.S. Compare to AI-generated music which is actually a thing now and is everywhere on every streaming platform. If vibe coding was a real thing by now we'd have 10 vibecoded repos on Github for every real repo.
      - brushfoot 6mo ago
rafaelmn 6mo ago
These people play around with shit and try to sell you on their secret sauce. If it actually works it will come to claude code - so you can consider them practical SOTA and honestly just plopping CC to a mid sized codebase is a pretty great experience for me already. Not ideal but I get real tangible value out of it. Not 10x or any such nonsense but enough to think that I don't think I want to be managing junior developers anymore, the ROI with LLMs is much faster and significant IMO.
globular-toast 6mo ago
"You better work, bitch" -- Britney Spears Our society is obsessed with work. Work will never end. If things become easier we just do more of them. Whether putting all our efforts into recycling things created by those that came before is good for us will remain to be seen.
- Aushin 6mo ago
  Our society is obsessed with <the appearance of> work
spiderfarmer 6mo ago
It's always the uber conservative and over principled people who laugh about using PHP that have an opinion on everything while not knowing how to get shit done. They're all just tools. You decide how to use them.
- philipwhiuk 6mo ago
  Sure but we can agree there's essentially two parallel industries in web development Engineer at tech firms and WebShops writing WordPress plugins for single clients where Squarespace doesn't cut it. Is AI another field of people or is it killing one or both of those. TBD
  - spiderfarmer 6mo ago
    To be fair my perception of the Javascript ecosystem and their one-day-fly frameworks is ruined by jQuery plugins developers.
AmazingTurtle 6mo ago
> like using PHP lmao, chuckled
EricEspen 6mo ago
php still makes money though!
thewhitetulip 6mo ago
I saw a guys post on LinkedIn who created llm agent to water how plants based on sensor on his plants He still has to water the plants on his own. Its just that it costs him quite a bit when all of that could he mamaged with an alarm to remind him to water plants.
ipaddr 6mo ago
Looking back we see how foolish the anti-php memes were. Meanwhile PHP lives on and becomes better with each release. Tooling around llms are a natural next step that will become your default one day.

by hi_hi 6mo ago

mewpmewp2 6mo ago

I am not laughing about PHP. To this very day many of my best projects are built on PHP. And while last 7 years I have spent in full stack JavaScript/TypeScript environment it has never produced the same things I was actually able to do with PHP. I actually feel that things I built 15 years ago in PHP were better than anything I am trying to achieve with modern things that gets outdated every 6 months.

jack_pp 6mo ago
what in God's Name could you do in PHP that you can't do in a modern framework?
- mewpmewp2 6mo ago
  You can build those things in modern frameworks, it will just be more headache and will feel outdated in 6 months.
  - the_lonely_time 6mo ago
    Where are my backbone apps? In the trash? Me ember apps? Next to them. My create-react-apps? On top of those. My Next apps? Being trashed as we speak. My rails apps? Online and making money every year with minimal upgrade time. What the hell was I thinking.
    - tdeck 6mo ago
      I'm guessing you avoided the CoffeeScript era of Rails, which is a good thing.
  - Gigachad 6mo ago
    6 years ago I was writing apps in typescript and react, if I was starting a new project today I'd write it in typescript and react.
    - ehnto 6mo ago
      People bicker about PHP and Javascript, sorry Typescript, like they aren't both mule languages peoppe pick up to get work done. They both matured really well through years of production use. They are in the same group, similar pedigree. If you were programming purely for the art of it, you would have had time to discover much nicer languages than either, but that's not what most people are doing so it doesn't really matter. They're different but they're about as good as eachother.
- tbossanova 6mo ago
  Nothing; but PHP, in experienced hands, will be waaay more productive for small-to-medium things. One issue is that experienced hands are increasingly hard to come by. Truly big, complicated things, built by large teams or numbers of teams, teams with a lot of average brains or AIs trained on average brains, will be better off in something like Typescript/React. And everyone wants to work on the big complicated stuff. So the "modern frameworks" will continue to dominate while smaller, more niche shops will wonder why they waste their time.
  - jack_pp 6mo ago
    I worked at a startup, they built their API in PHP because it was easy and fast. Now they're successful, app doesn't scale, high latency etc. What does their php code do? 95% of it is calling a DB. You're telling me today with LLM power multiplier it's THAT much faster to write in PHP compared to something that can actually have a future?
    - arjvik 6mo ago
      by future do you mean Future<T> or metaphorical future? :)
      - withinboredom 6mo ago
        I see what you did there.
    - rurban 6mo ago
      PHP did better than python and perl. Python is doomed. PHP got a good jit already, a good OO lately, good frameworks, stable extensions. It has a company behind. Unlike python or ruby which break right and left all the time on updates. you have to use bunkers of venvs, without any security updates. A nightmare. PHP can scale and has a future.
      - Incipient 6mo ago
        Python is doomed? That's new. You use python docker images pinned to a stable version (3.11 etc), and between bigger versions, you test and handle any breaking changes. I feel like this approach applies to pretty much every language? Who on earth raw dogs on "language:latest" and just hopes for the best? Granted I wouldn't be running Facebook's backend on something like this. But i feel that isn't a problem 95% of people need to deal with.
- dheera 6mo ago
  Not have to "build" anything. You edit code and it is already deployed on your dev instance. Deploying to production is just scp -rv * production:/var/www/ Beautifully simple. No npm build crap.
  - jack_pp 6mo ago
    You trade having to compile for actually having code that can scale
    - lelanthran 6mo ago
      It scales just fine the same way everything else scales: put a load balancer in front of multiple instances of your app.
    - ericd 6mo ago
      Not sure what you’re talking about, I scaled to millions of users on a pair of boxes with PHP, and its page generation time absolutely crushed Rails/Django times. Apache with mod PHP auto scales wonderfully.
    - vachina 6mo ago
      It can scale by the virtue of spending a lot less time processing the request
    - spiderfarmer 6mo ago
      You don't know anything about the PHP ecosystem and it shows.
- tjoff 6mo ago
  Making instant loading and user respecting sites.
- baq 6mo ago
  Don’t confuse php the language with php the way of webmaster 2006 vintage.
  - spiderfarmer 6mo ago
    Those webmasters built the web a lot of people are now nostalgic about already.
- azangru 6mo ago
  Could you give examples of the modern frameworks that you have in mind?
eqvinox 6mo ago
The comparison target for PHP is IMHO a good Python web framework, e.g. Django being the most popular one. I still don't understand how JavaScript is ever considered viable, TypeScript makes it workable I guess…
giva 6mo ago
I feel like today an engineer with a modern framework and AI con produce in an afternoon a product that deliver real value, something that 25 years ago would have required a full hour by a high schooler with MS Access.
- vardalab 6mo ago
  I was building awesome things with Access 20 years ago. I loved that thing. I wasn't even a software engineer. I was in the EE, but I needed a way to track process and it definitely outperformed. And the best thing, it didn't cost us anything. Everybody already had access, lol. I had 40 people use it in production, manufacturing cutting edge stuff. Definitely beat spreadsheets because Access gave you gui for operators.

serial_dev 6mo ago

> sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. Not if you are an AI gold rush shovel salesman. From the article: > I've run Claude Code workshops for over 100 engineers in the last six months

p0w3n3d 6mo ago
Yeah, my colleague recently said "hey I've burnt through $200 in Claude in 3 days". And he was prompting. Max 8hrs/day Imagine what would happen if AI was prompting. As I like this allegory really much, AI is (or should be) like and exoskeleton, should help people do things. If you step out of your car putting it first in drive mode, and going to sleep, next day it will be farther, but the question is, is it still on road
- alexey-pelykh 6mo ago
  [dead]
  - aray07 6mo ago
    Agreed. The spec file is context. Writing acceptance criteria before you prompt provides the context the agent needs to not go off in the wrong direction. Human leverage just moved up and the plan/spec is the most important step. Parallelism on top of bad context just gets you more wrong answers faster
  - robutsume 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 6mo ago
      https://github.com/safety-quotient-lab/psychology-agent https://github.com/safety-quotient-lab/psychology-agent <- I've been exploring ways to track decisions, making some interesting findings, at the homelab scale, at least. The cognitive architecture, so to speak, for the LLM can make a huge difference - triggers and skills go a long way when combined with shell scripts that dual-write.

godelski 6mo ago

I can't believe we're back to advocating for TDD. It was a failed paradigm that last few times we tried it. This time isn't any different because the fundamental flaw has always been the same: tests aren't proofs, they don't have complete coverage. Before anyone gets too confused, I love tests. They're great. They help a lot. But to believe they prove correctness is absolutely laughable. Even the most general tests are very narrow. I'm sure they help LLMs just as they help us, but they're not some cure all. You have to think long and hard about problems and shouldn't let tests drive your development. They're guardrails for checking bonds and reduce footguns. Oh, who could have guessed, Dijkstra wrote about program completeness. (No, this isn't the foolishness of natural language programming, but it is about formalism ;) https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD288.html https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD02xx/EWD288...

computerdork 6mo ago
Hmm, not so sure TDD is a failed paradigm. Maybe it isn't a pancea, but it is seems like it's changed how software development is done. Especially for backend software and also for tools, seems like automated tests can cover quite a lot of use cases a system encounters. Their coverage can become so good that they'll allow you to make major changes to the system, and as long as they pass the automated tests, you can feel relatively confident the system will work in prod (have seen this many times). But maybe you're separating automated testing and TDD as two separate concepts?
- prerok 6mo ago
  Indeed, they are two separate concepts. I write lots of automated tests, but almost always after the development is finished. The only exception is when reproducing a bug, where I first write the test that reproduces it, then I fix the code. TDD is about developing tests first then writing the code to make the tests pass. I know several people who gave it an honest try but gave up a few months later. They do advocate everyone should try the approach, though, simply because it will make you write production code that's easier to test later on.
  - 6mo ago

brobdingnagians 6mo ago

I would encourage my competitors to use AI agents on their codebase as much as possible. Make sure every new feature has it, lots of velocity! Run those suckers day and night. Don't review it, just make sure the feature is there! Then when the music stops, the AI companies hit the economic realities, go insolvent, and they are left with no one who understands a sprawling tangled web of code that is 80% AI generated, then we'll see who laughs last.

evrenesat 6mo ago
Qwen3 Coder Next and Qwen3.5-35B-A3B already very good and can be run on today's higher end home computers with good speed. Tomorrow's machines will not be slower but models are keep getting more efficient. A good sw engineer still would be valuable in Tomorrow's world but not as a software assembler.
- ruszki 6mo ago
  Even cutting edge models are not very good. They are not even on mediocre level. Don’t get me wrong, they are improving, and they are awesome, but they are nowhere near good yet. Vibe coded projects have more bugs than features, their architecture and design system are terrible, and their tests are completely useless about half the time. If you want a good product you need to rewrite almost everything what’s written by LLMs. Probably this won’t be the case in a few years, but now even “very good” LLMs are not very good at all.
  - rwmj 6mo ago
    Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is very much my experience. When it matters (like, customer data is on the line) vibecoded projects are not just hilariously bad, but put you in legal danger. We've so far found that Claude code is fine as a kind of better Coverity for uncovering memory leaks and similar. You have to check its work very carefully because about 1 time in 5 it just gets stuff wrong. It's great that it gets stuff right 4 times in 5 and produces natural code that fits into the style of the existing project, but it's nothing earth-shattering. We've had tools to detect memory leaks before. We had someone attempt to translate one of our existing projects into Rust and the result was just wrong at a fundamental level. It did compile and pass its own tests, so if you had no idea about the problem space you might even have accepted its work.

dwedge 6mo ago

It being a lot of work is why they didn't do it at all for weeks and still, without self reflection, wrote that they care about the code quality of the code they hadn't looked at or tested

brushfoot 6mo ago

> sounds like alot of work and expense for something that is meant to make programming easier and cheaper. It's not more work; it's a convergence of roles. BA/PO/QA/SWE are merging. AI has automated aspects of those roles that have made the traditional separation of concerns less desirable. A new hybrid role is emerging. The person writing these acceptance criteria can be the one guiding the AI to develop them. So now we have dev-BAs or BA-devs or however you'd like to frame it. They're closer to the business than a dev might have been or closer to development than a BA might have been. The point is, smaller teams are able to play wider now.

otabdeveloper4 6mo ago
> It's not more work It literally is. You're spending weeks of effort babysitting harnesses and evaluating models while shipping nothing at all.
- brushfoot 6mo ago
  That hasn't been my experience, as a "ship or die" solopreneur. It takes work to set up these new processes and procedures, but it's like building a factory; you're able to produce more once they're in place. And you're able to play wider, which is why the small team is king. Roles are converging both in technologies and in functions. That leads to more software that's tailored to niche use cases.
  - otabdeveloper4 6mo ago
    > you're able to produce more once they're in place Cool story, unfortunately the proof is not in the pudding and none of this fantom x10 vibe-coded software actually works or can be downloaded and used by real people. P.S. Compare to AI-generated music which is actually a thing now and is everywhere on every streaming platform. If vibe coding was a real thing by now we'd have 10 vibecoded repos on Github for every real repo.
    - brushfoot 6mo ago

rafaelmn 6mo ago

These people play around with shit and try to sell you on their secret sauce. If it actually works it will come to claude code - so you can consider them practical SOTA and honestly just plopping CC to a mid sized codebase is a pretty great experience for me already. Not ideal but I get real tangible value out of it. Not 10x or any such nonsense but enough to think that I don't think I want to be managing junior developers anymore, the ROI with LLMs is much faster and significant IMO.

globular-toast 6mo ago

"You better work, bitch" -- Britney Spears Our society is obsessed with work. Work will never end. If things become easier we just do more of them. Whether putting all our efforts into recycling things created by those that came before is good for us will remain to be seen.

Aushin 6mo ago
Our society is obsessed with <the appearance of> work

spiderfarmer 6mo ago

It's always the uber conservative and over principled people who laugh about using PHP that have an opinion on everything while not knowing how to get shit done. They're all just tools. You decide how to use them.

philipwhiuk 6mo ago
Sure but we can agree there's essentially two parallel industries in web development Engineer at tech firms and WebShops writing WordPress plugins for single clients where Squarespace doesn't cut it. Is AI another field of people or is it killing one or both of those. TBD
- spiderfarmer 6mo ago
  To be fair my perception of the Javascript ecosystem and their one-day-fly frameworks is ruined by jQuery plugins developers.

AmazingTurtle 6mo ago

> like using PHP lmao, chuckled

EricEspen 6mo ago

php still makes money though!

thewhitetulip 6mo ago

I saw a guys post on LinkedIn who created llm agent to water how plants based on sensor on his plants He still has to water the plants on his own. Its just that it costs him quite a bit when all of that could he mamaged with an alarm to remind him to water plants.

ipaddr 6mo ago

Looking back we see how foolish the anti-php memes were. Meanwhile PHP lives on and becomes better with each release. Tooling around llms are a natural next step that will become your default one day.