7 ms·

What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought th

What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought this through?

0x457 7mo ago
Yes, let's stop all progress and roll-back all automation to keep hypothetical angry people with guns happy.
- Phenomenit 7mo ago
  Seems like a good description on current events.
- runarberg 7mo ago
  Autonomous private cars is not the technological progress you think it is. We’ve had autonomous trains for decades, and while it provides us with a more efficient and cost effective public transit system, it didn’t open the doors for the next revolutionary technology. Self driving cars is a dead end technology, that will introduce a whole host of new problems which are already solved with public transit, better urban planning, etc.
  - pnut 7mo ago
    Nope. Humans are statistically fallible and their attention is too valuable to be obliged to a mundane task like executing navigation commands. Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. Also personal agency limits public transportation as a solution.
    - runarberg 7mo ago
      Unlike autonomous driving, public transit is a proven solution employed in thousands of cities around the world, on various scales, economies, etc. > Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. We have been redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure since we had cities. Where I live (Seattle) they are opening a new light rail bridge crossing just next month (first rail over a floting bridge; which is technologically very interesting), and two new rail lines are being planned. In the 1960s the Bay area completely revolutionized their transit sytem when they opened BART. I think you are simply wrong here.
      - tanseydavid 7mo ago
        >> In the 1960s the Bay area completely revolutionized their transit sytem when they opened BART. 66 years later we see California struggling terribly with implementation of a high-speed rail system -- where the placement/location of the infrastructure largely is targeted for areas far less dense than the Bay Area. I don't think there is any single reason why this is so much more difficult now then it was in 1960 -- but clearly things have changed quite a lot in that time.
    - askl 7mo ago
      > Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. The US already did it once (just in the wrong direction) by redesigning all cities to be unfriendly to humans and only navigable by cars. It should be technically possible to revert that mistake.
  - sekai 7mo ago
    > We’ve had autonomous trains for decades Trains need tracks, cars - already have the infrastructure to drive on. > Self driving cars is a dead end technology, that will introduce a whole host of new problems which are already solved with public transit, better urban planning, etc. Self driving cars will literally become a part of public transit
    - runarberg 7mo ago
      > Self driving cars will literally become a part of public transit I’ve been hearing people say that for almost 15 years now. I believe it when I see it.
      - tanseydavid 7mo ago
        >> I believe it when I see it. I'm willing to wager that you might not actually believe it at that point either.
  - xnx 7mo ago
    > Self driving cars is a dead end technology I would be happy to bet on some strict definition of your claim.
  - drewmate 7mo ago
    Unfortunately, many of our urban areas have already been planned (for better or worse) for cars and not the density that makes public transit viable. Autonomous cars will solve a host of problems for the old, young, mobility limited, and just about everyone else. It will prove disruptive to the driving industry, but I think we’ve been through worse disruptions and fared the better for it.
  - 0x457 7mo ago
    I live in LA and ride Waymo, subway and trains often (decided not buy a car after u-haul rear-ended me on a red light...). There is no way metro and trains will be a solid way of transportation in LA for at least a few more decades, even if people of Bel-Air stop fighting trains that go deep under Bel-Air and people of valley stop being unreasonable. Even if next president, rollbacks contingency requirement changes that trump did. Even America remember how to build large infrastructure projects. It will never be the ideal "you're always at most 20-30 minutes of walking away from the station" density here in LA. > Autonomous private cars is not the technological progress you think it is. We’ve had autonomous trains for decades, and while it provides us with a more efficient and cost effective public transit system, it didn’t open the doors for the next revolutionary technology. There is a huge difference between going on rails and going on public roads. There are plenty of "dead end technologies" that we use to this day.
    - runarberg 7mo ago
      > There are plenty of "dead end technologies" that we use to this day. Good point. However that does not apply to self driving cars because the problem it is trying to fix is a lot more complex then how to heat your microwave burrito more quickly. Self driving cars shares many of the same problems with human driven cars, including traffic congestion. If we see a mass employment of self driving cars in our cities, these problems will still remain, and the only thing this technology has solved is the need for commuters to pay attention 100% of the way. While nice, that is not revolutionary. I think you are underselling your city here. LA has an excellent bus system which can be improved further still. LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure, and me personally I am fairly optimistic that sometime in the near future, your city will put my city of Seattle to shame with your bike network.
      - 0x457 7mo ago
        > I think you are underselling your city here. LA has an excellent bus system which can be improved further still. LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure, and me personally I am fairly optimistic that sometime in the near future, your city will put my city of Seattle to shame with your bike network. No really, insanity that usually happens inside a bus in LA aside, it still goes on the same congested roads. "Bus Only" becomes a suggestion once rush hour starts (I can see bus only line backed up by not buses every day our of my window). I mostly use metro because buses not worth it for me. Metro network is either wonderful stops or very bad stops. There is a massive "cleanup" attempt before the Olympics. Some will be right where you want to go and some are in the middle of a freeway 20 minutes of walking away from anything. The fact that K line does not go through Getty Center to please a handful of people and car brains saddens me. > LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure Please no. Cyclists are probably the most hated category on the road even by other cyclists. I'd ban cycling on public roads in most of LA if it were up to me.
skybrian 7mo ago
If Waymo's history is any guide, it's not going to happen overnight. Even in San Francisco, their market share is only 20-30%.
gadflyinyoureye 7mo ago
Those are rookie numbers. The US has 400 million guns. https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-gun-ownership-statistics/ https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-gun-owners... As to the revolt, America doesn't do that any more. Years of education have removed both the vim and vigor of our souls. People will complain. They will do a TikTok dance as protest. Some will go into the streets. No meaningful uprising will occur. The poor and the affected will be told to go to the trades. That's the new learn to program. Our tech overlords will have their media tell us that everything is ok (packaging it appropriately for the specific side of the aisle). Ultimately the US will go down hill to become a Belgium. Not terrible, but not a world dominating, hand cutting entity it once was.
- markvdb 7mo ago
  > Ultimately the US will go down hill to become a Belgium. Sharing one's opinion in a respectful way is possible. Less spectacle, so less eyeballs, but worth it. Try it.
  - nubg 7mo ago
    What's wrong with his comparison? He explained what he meant by "a Belgium".
    - tanseydavid 7mo ago
      The entire side topic of guns and revolt seems misplaced in this thread. The original Luddite movement arose in response to automation in the textile industry. They committed violence. Violence was committed against them. All tragic events when viewed from a certain perspective. My rhetorical question is this: did any of this result in any meaningful impedance of the "march of technological progress"?
  - drysine 7mo ago
    >in a respectful way The irony
- bonsai_spool 7mo ago
paxys 7mo ago
Waymo has been operating since 2004 (22 years ago), and replacing drivers on the road will take many more decades. Nothing is happening "overnight".
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
lanthissa 7mo ago
same thing that happened during the industrial revolution, you pay enough of them to 'protect the law' vs the rest.
sigspec 7mo ago
UBI or war, or both
VirusNewbie 7mo ago
I don't think Uber goes out of business. There is probably a sweet spot for Waymo's steady state cars, and you STILL might want 'surge' capabilities for part time workers who can repurpose their cars to make a little extra money here and there.
sekai 7mo ago
> What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought this through? Same was said about electricity, or the internet.
- password54321 7mo ago
  People keep referencing history but this really is unprecedented. We are approaching singularity and many people will become obsolete in all areas. There are no new hypothetical jobs waiting on the horizon.
sroussey 7mo ago
Reminds me of the history or radio and the absolute uproar that someone played a record on the radio rather than live performances!!
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
8note 7mo ago
this sounds like a major benefit. i dont want my uber driver bragging anout how theyre going to shoot me before i get out of the car
bdangubic 7mo ago
what did all the farmers do when the first tractors rolled into the fields?
- mavhc 7mo ago
  They invented offices because the massive increase in productivity required more organisation than "I'll take it all to the market on Saturday"

What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought this through?

0x457 7mo ago

Yes, let's stop all progress and roll-back all automation to keep hypothetical angry people with guns happy.

Phenomenit 7mo ago
Seems like a good description on current events.
runarberg 7mo ago
Autonomous private cars is not the technological progress you think it is. We’ve had autonomous trains for decades, and while it provides us with a more efficient and cost effective public transit system, it didn’t open the doors for the next revolutionary technology. Self driving cars is a dead end technology, that will introduce a whole host of new problems which are already solved with public transit, better urban planning, etc.
- pnut 7mo ago
  Nope. Humans are statistically fallible and their attention is too valuable to be obliged to a mundane task like executing navigation commands. Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. Also personal agency limits public transportation as a solution.
  - runarberg 7mo ago
    Unlike autonomous driving, public transit is a proven solution employed in thousands of cities around the world, on various scales, economies, etc. > Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. We have been redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure since we had cities. Where I live (Seattle) they are opening a new light rail bridge crossing just next month (first rail over a floting bridge; which is technologically very interesting), and two new rail lines are being planned. In the 1960s the Bay area completely revolutionized their transit sytem when they opened BART. I think you are simply wrong here.
    - tanseydavid 7mo ago
      >> In the 1960s the Bay area completely revolutionized their transit sytem when they opened BART. 66 years later we see California struggling terribly with implementation of a high-speed rail system -- where the placement/location of the infrastructure largely is targeted for areas far less dense than the Bay Area. I don't think there is any single reason why this is so much more difficult now then it was in 1960 -- but clearly things have changed quite a lot in that time.
  - askl 7mo ago
    > Redesigning and rebuilding city transportation infrastructure isn't happening, look around. The US already did it once (just in the wrong direction) by redesigning all cities to be unfriendly to humans and only navigable by cars. It should be technically possible to revert that mistake.
- sekai 7mo ago
  > We’ve had autonomous trains for decades Trains need tracks, cars - already have the infrastructure to drive on. > Self driving cars is a dead end technology, that will introduce a whole host of new problems which are already solved with public transit, better urban planning, etc. Self driving cars will literally become a part of public transit
  - runarberg 7mo ago
    > Self driving cars will literally become a part of public transit I’ve been hearing people say that for almost 15 years now. I believe it when I see it.
    - tanseydavid 7mo ago
      >> I believe it when I see it. I'm willing to wager that you might not actually believe it at that point either.
- xnx 7mo ago
  > Self driving cars is a dead end technology I would be happy to bet on some strict definition of your claim.
- drewmate 7mo ago
  Unfortunately, many of our urban areas have already been planned (for better or worse) for cars and not the density that makes public transit viable. Autonomous cars will solve a host of problems for the old, young, mobility limited, and just about everyone else. It will prove disruptive to the driving industry, but I think we’ve been through worse disruptions and fared the better for it.
- 0x457 7mo ago
  I live in LA and ride Waymo, subway and trains often (decided not buy a car after u-haul rear-ended me on a red light...). There is no way metro and trains will be a solid way of transportation in LA for at least a few more decades, even if people of Bel-Air stop fighting trains that go deep under Bel-Air and people of valley stop being unreasonable. Even if next president, rollbacks contingency requirement changes that trump did. Even America remember how to build large infrastructure projects. It will never be the ideal "you're always at most 20-30 minutes of walking away from the station" density here in LA. > Autonomous private cars is not the technological progress you think it is. We’ve had autonomous trains for decades, and while it provides us with a more efficient and cost effective public transit system, it didn’t open the doors for the next revolutionary technology. There is a huge difference between going on rails and going on public roads. There are plenty of "dead end technologies" that we use to this day.
  - runarberg 7mo ago
    > There are plenty of "dead end technologies" that we use to this day. Good point. However that does not apply to self driving cars because the problem it is trying to fix is a lot more complex then how to heat your microwave burrito more quickly. Self driving cars shares many of the same problems with human driven cars, including traffic congestion. If we see a mass employment of self driving cars in our cities, these problems will still remain, and the only thing this technology has solved is the need for commuters to pay attention 100% of the way. While nice, that is not revolutionary. I think you are underselling your city here. LA has an excellent bus system which can be improved further still. LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure, and me personally I am fairly optimistic that sometime in the near future, your city will put my city of Seattle to shame with your bike network.
    - 0x457 7mo ago
      > I think you are underselling your city here. LA has an excellent bus system which can be improved further still. LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure, and me personally I am fairly optimistic that sometime in the near future, your city will put my city of Seattle to shame with your bike network. No really, insanity that usually happens inside a bus in LA aside, it still goes on the same congested roads. "Bus Only" becomes a suggestion once rush hour starts (I can see bus only line backed up by not buses every day our of my window). I mostly use metro because buses not worth it for me. Metro network is either wonderful stops or very bad stops. There is a massive "cleanup" attempt before the Olympics. Some will be right where you want to go and some are in the middle of a freeway 20 minutes of walking away from anything. The fact that K line does not go through Getty Center to please a handful of people and car brains saddens me. > LA also has the potential of installing a world class bicycle infrastructure Please no. Cyclists are probably the most hated category on the road even by other cyclists. I'd ban cycling on public roads in most of LA if it were up to me.

skybrian 7mo ago

If Waymo's history is any guide, it's not going to happen overnight. Even in San Francisco, their market share is only 20-30%.

gadflyinyoureye 7mo ago

Those are rookie numbers. The US has 400 million guns. https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-gun-ownership-statistics/ https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-gun-owners... As to the revolt, America doesn't do that any more. Years of education have removed both the vim and vigor of our souls. People will complain. They will do a TikTok dance as protest. Some will go into the streets. No meaningful uprising will occur. The poor and the affected will be told to go to the trades. That's the new learn to program. Our tech overlords will have their media tell us that everything is ok (packaging it appropriately for the specific side of the aisle). Ultimately the US will go down hill to become a Belgium. Not terrible, but not a world dominating, hand cutting entity it once was.

markvdb 7mo ago
> Ultimately the US will go down hill to become a Belgium. Sharing one's opinion in a respectful way is possible. Less spectacle, so less eyeballs, but worth it. Try it.
- nubg 7mo ago
  What's wrong with his comparison? He explained what he meant by "a Belgium".
  - tanseydavid 7mo ago
    The entire side topic of guns and revolt seems misplaced in this thread. The original Luddite movement arose in response to automation in the textile industry. They committed violence. Violence was committed against them. All tragic events when viewed from a certain perspective. My rhetorical question is this: did any of this result in any meaningful impedance of the "march of technological progress"?
- drysine 7mo ago
  >in a respectful way The irony
bonsai_spool 7mo ago

paxys 7mo ago

Waymo has been operating since 2004 (22 years ago), and replacing drivers on the road will take many more decades. Nothing is happening "overnight".

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

lanthissa 7mo ago

same thing that happened during the industrial revolution, you pay enough of them to 'protect the law' vs the rest.

sigspec 7mo ago

UBI or war, or both

VirusNewbie 7mo ago

I don't think Uber goes out of business. There is probably a sweet spot for Waymo's steady state cars, and you STILL might want 'surge' capabilities for part time workers who can repurpose their cars to make a little extra money here and there.

sekai 7mo ago

> What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought this through? Same was said about electricity, or the internet.

password54321 7mo ago
People keep referencing history but this really is unprecedented. We are approaching singularity and many people will become obsolete in all areas. There are no new hypothetical jobs waiting on the horizon.

sroussey 7mo ago

Reminds me of the history or radio and the absolute uproar that someone played a record on the radio rather than live performances!!

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

8note 7mo ago

this sounds like a major benefit. i dont want my uber driver bragging anout how theyre going to shoot me before i get out of the car

bdangubic 7mo ago

what did all the farmers do when the first tractors rolled into the fields?

mavhc 7mo ago
They invented offices because the massive increase in productivity required more organisation than "I'll take it all to the market on Saturday"