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> They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other companies have now ripped the software and the iPad, so they have nothing unique You are not wrong a

by angott 9mo ago

> They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other companies have now ripped the software and the iPad, so they have nothing unique You are not wrong about Tesla's base models like the 3 and Y being light on traditional 60k car features, but the second part is much more debatable. With the exception of some Chinese car manufacturers, almost no Western car makers have managed to match Tesla's software stack. I can't think of another car brand that makes its own silicon, ships OTA updates weekly, runs an in-house OS that isn't an outdated Android skin, and tightly integrates media, navigation, charging, and energy management all in the same platform. Most legacy automakers still rely on their old infotainment vendors, release update slowly (if at all!), and struggle with fragmented software architectures. Their driver assistance systems are improving very slowly, and they are behind Tesla even for basic features like lane-keep assist. And that's even before getting into self-driving ambitions, where no brand has been able to ship anything similar AFAIK. Rivian and Lucid are closer philosophically and technically, but they're still quite tiny players compared to Tesla, and haven't proven they can execute at Tesla's volume and pricing.

audunw 9mo ago
Some other brands rely on Mobileye for driver assistance. It’s clear from demos that Mobileye is on the same level as Tesla, the difference is that the don’t use end users as beta testers. I suspect that when actual full self driving is possible, other car companies won’t be as far behind as you’d think based on the features Tesla has in their cars now.
- CyanLite2 9mo ago
  They mostly only work on pre-mapped highways. They're also not commercially available. There's currently no other DA other than Tesla's FSD available in the US that will work on city streets and highways.
  - dabraham1248 9mo ago
    I'm going to assert that Tesla's FSD™ does not, in fact work on city streets and highways. Or, if you want to loosely define "work", Ernst Dickmanns had self driving in the 80s, and put in on the autobahn in the 90s. I'd rather define it more tightly as "statistically at least as safe to be in _and_ to be near, as a human driver". Tesla claims to have achieved that, but I don't believe them. That's because the data they report 1) omits a fair bit of critical info, and 2) frequently changes definitions. Both serve to make comparisons difficult. If it was clearly safe, I think they'd put effort into making the comparison transparent. Bear in mind that Musk has been claiming "Full Self-Driving" since at least 2016, and people involved have asserted that he wasn't wrong, he was lying.
- dalyons 9mo ago
  Rivian recently moved away from mobileye in their newer models, because mobileye is are far behind and limited. The progression of their new in house driver assistance since then is already proving that was a good choice.
mempko 9mo ago
Mercedes appears to have the best infotainment system, but it's not a US company.
myvoiceismypass 9mo ago
Why do cars need weekly software updates? Or - more specifically, what sorts of new software-enabled features (or bug fixes) besides FSD are rolling out weekly in Teslas? Genuinely curious! Is there downtime?
- brysonreece 9mo ago
  A couple of recent software additions to my ‘23 MY: * Dynamic speed profiles for Autopilot/FSD * The ability to specify individual drop-off locations for FSD arrivals (curbside, parking lot, driveway, etc) * Grok as a voice assistant for the infotainment system * iOS live activity viewer for the Dog Mode camera feed * Speed/steering/control statuses being overlaid on dashcam footage * “Santa Mode” which revamps the UI with Christmas theming for the holiday season * Automatic HOV lane routing based on vehicle occupancy status * Vehicle alerts/chimes when exiting, if leaving your phone within the vehicle * Location-based individual charge limits * 3D visualizations of supercharger locations, synced with active availability/occupancy per stall * The SpaceX docking simulator ported as an in-vehicle game, playable on the infotainment screen These are all additions from just the most recent update, and I can confidently say this is the only vehicle I’ve had that consistently gets better and better in terms of its software features over the course of ownership. Each update takes anywhere from 20-45 minutes during which, unfortunately, you’re not able to utilize the vehicle at all.
  - apexalpha 9mo ago
    Okay I was sceptical going in but those updates seem legit.
    - tasty_freeze 9mo ago
      some sound good, but: > The SpaceX docking simulator ported as an in-vehicle game, playable on the infotainment screen Really? People want that? I know that Elon Musk would think that it would be great to play a video game about Elon Musk's companies, but are Tesla owners similarly afflicted?
formerly_proven 9mo ago
> I can't think of another car brand that makes its own silicon, ships OTA updates weekly, runs an in-house OS that isn't an outdated Android skin, and tightly integrates media, navigation, charging, and energy management all in the same platform. VW (ID software 3/4/5), Mercedes (MBUX). They don't update weekly (I don't think so, anyway), but I don't see how that would be inherently positive. They should be able to update weekly (e.g. security patches), sure, but car software should probably not be changing week-to-week for years on end. That being said, since the US is basically a captive and stagnating market for EVs now, it seems most models from European makers are not available in the US anyway.
Alconicon 9mo ago
My personal bet is on nvidia. They always show advanced selfdriving capabilities based on ML. They are also forefront of ml simulation. 3D, weather pattern etc. Tesla also had plenty of missshapes like Dojo or cybertruck and the sitll not finished FSD. My Car OS from Ford Mustang Mach-e works completly fine. No clue why this is some advantage Tesla should have? BMW just launched their new Gen 6 incl. their new os. All the advantages of that fully integrated 'platform' also just works in my car? BMW is very good in lane keeping, Mercedes can drive more km in germany autonomes than BMW and BMW can drive more km than Tesla. I of course focus on german brands because i'm from germany. But XPeng and others working on all of that too.
celticninja 9mo ago
Seriously, I don't need my car to get weekly OTA updates. And my 8yr old nissan qashqai had lane assist, it's hardly revolutionary. Tesla is pretty much dead in Europe, mainly due to Musks personality, but the quality of its product is also poor.
8note 9mo ago
why are they making cars at all of the software is what they are good at?
- horns4lyfe 9mo ago
  Because traditional car companies aren’t interested in buying software that they can’t get built by cheap contractors. Tesla actually hires high end engineers to build software, and that’s not cheap.

by angott 9mo ago

audunw 9mo ago

Some other brands rely on Mobileye for driver assistance. It’s clear from demos that Mobileye is on the same level as Tesla, the difference is that the don’t use end users as beta testers. I suspect that when actual full self driving is possible, other car companies won’t be as far behind as you’d think based on the features Tesla has in their cars now.

CyanLite2 9mo ago
They mostly only work on pre-mapped highways. They're also not commercially available. There's currently no other DA other than Tesla's FSD available in the US that will work on city streets and highways.
- dabraham1248 9mo ago
  I'm going to assert that Tesla's FSD™ does not, in fact work on city streets and highways. Or, if you want to loosely define "work", Ernst Dickmanns had self driving in the 80s, and put in on the autobahn in the 90s. I'd rather define it more tightly as "statistically at least as safe to be in _and_ to be near, as a human driver". Tesla claims to have achieved that, but I don't believe them. That's because the data they report 1) omits a fair bit of critical info, and 2) frequently changes definitions. Both serve to make comparisons difficult. If it was clearly safe, I think they'd put effort into making the comparison transparent. Bear in mind that Musk has been claiming "Full Self-Driving" since at least 2016, and people involved have asserted that he wasn't wrong, he was lying.
dalyons 9mo ago
Rivian recently moved away from mobileye in their newer models, because mobileye is are far behind and limited. The progression of their new in house driver assistance since then is already proving that was a good choice.

mempko 9mo ago

Mercedes appears to have the best infotainment system, but it's not a US company.

myvoiceismypass 9mo ago

Why do cars need weekly software updates? Or - more specifically, what sorts of new software-enabled features (or bug fixes) besides FSD are rolling out weekly in Teslas? Genuinely curious! Is there downtime?

brysonreece 9mo ago
A couple of recent software additions to my ‘23 MY: * Dynamic speed profiles for Autopilot/FSD * The ability to specify individual drop-off locations for FSD arrivals (curbside, parking lot, driveway, etc) * Grok as a voice assistant for the infotainment system * iOS live activity viewer for the Dog Mode camera feed * Speed/steering/control statuses being overlaid on dashcam footage * “Santa Mode” which revamps the UI with Christmas theming for the holiday season * Automatic HOV lane routing based on vehicle occupancy status * Vehicle alerts/chimes when exiting, if leaving your phone within the vehicle * Location-based individual charge limits * 3D visualizations of supercharger locations, synced with active availability/occupancy per stall * The SpaceX docking simulator ported as an in-vehicle game, playable on the infotainment screen These are all additions from just the most recent update, and I can confidently say this is the only vehicle I’ve had that consistently gets better and better in terms of its software features over the course of ownership. Each update takes anywhere from 20-45 minutes during which, unfortunately, you’re not able to utilize the vehicle at all.
- apexalpha 9mo ago
  Okay I was sceptical going in but those updates seem legit.
  - tasty_freeze 9mo ago
    some sound good, but: > The SpaceX docking simulator ported as an in-vehicle game, playable on the infotainment screen Really? People want that? I know that Elon Musk would think that it would be great to play a video game about Elon Musk's companies, but are Tesla owners similarly afflicted?

formerly_proven 9mo ago

> I can't think of another car brand that makes its own silicon, ships OTA updates weekly, runs an in-house OS that isn't an outdated Android skin, and tightly integrates media, navigation, charging, and energy management all in the same platform. VW (ID software 3/4/5), Mercedes (MBUX). They don't update weekly (I don't think so, anyway), but I don't see how that would be inherently positive. They should be able to update weekly (e.g. security patches), sure, but car software should probably not be changing week-to-week for years on end. That being said, since the US is basically a captive and stagnating market for EVs now, it seems most models from European makers are not available in the US anyway.

Alconicon 9mo ago

My personal bet is on nvidia. They always show advanced selfdriving capabilities based on ML. They are also forefront of ml simulation. 3D, weather pattern etc. Tesla also had plenty of missshapes like Dojo or cybertruck and the sitll not finished FSD. My Car OS from Ford Mustang Mach-e works completly fine. No clue why this is some advantage Tesla should have? BMW just launched their new Gen 6 incl. their new os. All the advantages of that fully integrated 'platform' also just works in my car? BMW is very good in lane keeping, Mercedes can drive more km in germany autonomes than BMW and BMW can drive more km than Tesla. I of course focus on german brands because i'm from germany. But XPeng and others working on all of that too.

celticninja 9mo ago

Seriously, I don't need my car to get weekly OTA updates. And my 8yr old nissan qashqai had lane assist, it's hardly revolutionary. Tesla is pretty much dead in Europe, mainly due to Musks personality, but the quality of its product is also poor.

8note 9mo ago

why are they making cars at all of the software is what they are good at?

horns4lyfe 9mo ago
Because traditional car companies aren’t interested in buying software that they can’t get built by cheap contractors. Tesla actually hires high end engineers to build software, and that’s not cheap.