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iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

272 points by Mazer23 14y ago

mtgx 14y ago
Sounds like Apple's algorithm for the App Store is pretty horrible and primitive. I wonder if most of the success stories came mainly from the fact that Apple was picking them for their feature lists.
- lbotos 14y ago
  For better or worse apple did acquire chomp sometime back: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-chomp-a-provider-of-tools-for-searching-apps.html http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-chomp... I'm not sure how much they had to do with this but they actively have people trying to solve "app store discovery". 95% of Apps I've ever purchased have been due to personal recommendation or web review. I don't think I've ever browsed the app store for purchase. (I know I'm in the minority)
- taligent 14y ago
  Yeh I can't imagine apps like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Angry Birds being popular without Apple featuring them. Oh wait. And I am not sure what specifically makes the algorithm primitive.
seangransee 14y ago
It's unlikely that Apple will fix this any time soon. I can't think of a single time when Apple gave one of their pre-loaded apps an overhaul except when releasing the next major version of iOS.
- arn 14y ago
  App Store is basically just a web browser, so easier for them to upgrade. They do make changes over time that don't require software updates. One big one I remember is forcing people to have bought an app to be able to rate it. But you are probably right that a major overhaul in short time isn't their style.
jpdoctor 14y ago
Could the message be any more clear? Stop putting Apple in your critical path. They hold all the cards and you hold none.
- mannkind 14y ago
  Of course! There's no possible way to promote your app other than telling users to search for it in the App Store. If having users stumble upon your app is in your critical path, you have other problems. The search results have always been less-than-stellar whether you could scroll through 25 results in 1s or 11s.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Why hasn't Google jumped on this? If I search for "todo app" in Google, I get mostly blogs (SEO experts) and one app that apparently was the first to ask for the name Todo. Shouldn't Google trigger a special view like they do when you search for "CITY_NAME weather" or "MOVIE_TITLE showtimes"?
    - mayanksinghal 14y ago
      You mean platform dependent results? If the person is accessing from Web then web apps, from Android then playstore results etc... Sounds nice actually!
      - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
        If you're logged in Google knows what smartphone you own, might as well serve app results tailored to you.
sumukh1 14y ago
This is awesome news (though it's been known for a while) for the top publishers who have: large download numbers, good AppStore SEO, and good screenshots. While I think that this is bad on whole for developers/discovery as we knew it, it might just help users. Most of the time, users are either window shopping or looking for a very specific product. Window Shoppers: "I want a photo editing app", chances are you are going to look at the first result and scroll down and see if a icon stands out. With the new model, you see the screenshots too. Could save time over, tapping into an app, tapping into reviews, and then tapping back twice. This means that the icon is downplayed in sales and the first screenshot has become extremely important. Very Specific Product: "I'm looking for Gmail" It's quicker to just get the first result and confirm that it's actually what you are looking for. This however means that Apple has to be really confident in their search results (which aren't as great as they can be). Net effect for developers: 1. App Store SEO is important. (It always was, but now I think developers will start to see it now in their app sales) 2. Your copy on the sales page should also grab users attention. 3. Your first screenshot is very important. Your screenshots should be good. (Link: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-tutorials/app-store_screenshot-design_iphone-desig/ http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-tutorials...) 4. Also note, categories have been removed from the app tab bar. 5. Ratings seem to matter a lot for the search algorithm but not for Featured apps 6. This is the "Chomp" update, and Chomp has been known to get content from Blogs and various sources, so you should be mentioned off the App Store too. 7. Facebook Likes also help since those are displayed. Here's a cheat sheet that seemed useful: http://www.apptamin.com/ASO_Cheat_Sheet-v2.pdf http://www.apptamin.com/ASO_Cheat_Sheet-v2.pdf
- jlmendezbonini 14y ago
  Where are Facebook likes displayed? I can't seem them in the either version of the AppStore (Web, inside iTunes, from iPad).
  - sumukh1 14y ago
    Check under the reviews tab. It's under the FB section of this page: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#facebook-gallery-like http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#facebook-gallery-like
jeffpalmer 14y ago
I saw the new style search directly after I upgraded to iOS 6. I just opened the app store again after reading this post and now I am getting search results in the old list style. I wonder if Apple decided to switch back? Screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08.25.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08...
ojbyrne 14y ago
I'm looking at it on an iPad that I just upgraded, and it doesn't look like that. I can see 4 full products, and the top of two more in 2 vertical columns.
firat 14y ago
I agree that iOS 6 layout is ridiculous and far from usable. However, if you are building an app for Picasa, it better have "Picasa" in its name. The results are probably sorted by relevance (whatever that might be) and not only by ratings.
alecst 14y ago
The number one search for "picasa" should be Picasa.
- ja27 14y ago
  There is no official Picasa in the iTunes App Store.
  - henriks 14y ago
    There is, however, an official YouTube application, which was hit number 10 for the search "youtube", after a bunch of shady video downloader apps. If I hadn't known there actually was an official application I would've given up after swiping through the first five.
bradsmithinc 14y ago
Hacker News broke your blog.
- slipperyp 14y ago
  I think they put the 18 point font in their all on their own.
binaryorganic 14y ago
And HN broke this article
omarqazi 14y ago
When searching for apps, do you guys usually immediately jump through the whole list? This is something I never do. However, I will look at apps one at a time and decide which one is best. On iOS 5 this meant clicking on each list item one by one, waiting (forever) for the app page to load, and eventually picking one. Allowing me to browse through apps one at a time and see all the information I need without ever leaving the screen seems like it would encourage discovery, not hurt it. I can even download the app right from the search screen AND I don't get thrown out of the App Store when I start the download so I can just download all the apps I want to try at once. This seems like a huge win to me. Do other people browse the App Store differently?
- crag 14y ago
  I browse the same way. And this new layout is a welcome change for me. Finally I don't have to drill down every app I'm interested in to see screen shots and comments.
  - guelo 14y ago
    You mean screenshot(singluar) and no comments.
robomartin 14y ago
Well, app store searching and browsing through either an iPhone, iPad or even iTunes has been, to be kind, far less than desirable from day one. The same is true of iBooks. Apple has crappy search technology and even crappier implementations.
bpatrianakos 14y ago
Nothing is broken and no one is "doing it wrong". It's not broken, it's just inconvenient for you. This sucks for app developers with bad app store SEO and lackluster icons, app designs, and screenshots of said designs. Many apps at the bottom of the stack will be neglected. This is a good thing. I'm about to release an app into the app store for the first time and I'm happy about it. This will raise the bar for developers. It'll force them to do better app store SEO and it'll force the, to pay attention to design. Ugly apps aren't always necessarily bad but more ugly apps are bad than ugly apps that are good. This isn't Android. On iOS, users tend to judge an app by its icon and screenshots and they use pretty apps more than they open ugly ones. I didn't make the rules, I just play by them. Developers should be welcoming competition and with so many crap apps out there today it's probably better for good app developers to work on getting their rankings higher while the crap app makers languish at the end of the results. While its bad for developers it's great for buyers. Guess what? There are far more buyers than developers on the app store. You may argue that if developers leave then iOS will die. Not so. Again, iOS users are a different animal. They can live with just a few big name apps from the major players. Android users tend to like lots of apps from indie devs and iOS users do too but if push came to shove they'd just keep their Angry Birds, Skype, Facebook, Twitter, and Yelp and go on with their day. Screenshots are very important in the buying process and putting them front and center like this. As developers we tend to think we're the center of the universe. We place far too much importance on our role than is deserved. Witness the outrage over Twitter's API. While developers were screaming about revolt the users barely noticed and kept tweeting away. Meanwhile Twitter pretty much gave us the finger because they know we'll be back because they have the users. Developers are like parents in a way. We raise a platform then the platform rebels. We threaten to cut them off but by that point the platform is all grown up and doesn't need our help anymore. iOS won't be hurt by developers leaving. If developers leave over not being found in search results then by definition they're leaving because no one's using the app. Who's going to miss an app that never gets used?
- tzs 14y ago
  As a buyer, I don't see how it is great for me. When I search on the App Store there are usually several hits in the results that are not at all interesting to me, and ahead of the hits that better match what I'm looking for. I want to see several results at once so I can pick which ones I want to look into more deeply. If I have to step through them one at a time with a noticeable delay at each step, I'm not going to be a happy buyer.
ghshephard 14y ago
I've purchased about $1000 worth of applications on the iPhone/iPad in the last 4+ years, about 350 or so in total. 95%+ of the time I chose the very first app in the list. I don't recall the last time I was looking for an App that I didn't know the name of - but perhaps others use the App store differently. Of course, this is negative for publishers who are trying to leverage the search field with "like names" and, for those publishers who get business from people searching for random apps in a particular category. But, in general, this is good for people like me - who heard about a great new app by name on a podcast, and just want to try it out - having the extra data around the screenshot is useful.
jojopotato 14y ago
On a side note, could you imagine Google changing their search results to this kind of layout? I think it would probably trigger a ton of lawsuits.
- pepdek 14y ago
  Google doesn't owe you anything, it's their service and we use their search engine for free. They'd scoff at every single lawsuit, if it ever got that far. It might be a bad product decision. And organizing the app store based on app-store SEO is wise, opens up a new market and forces devs to reconsider their app design.
Jarshwah 14y ago
Came expecting news that the app store would not launch in iOS 6. Title is definitely more provocative than it needed to be.
jsz0 14y ago
Pre-iOS6 I would often go through and tap on each search result to look at the screenshots, assuming I didn't already know exactly what I was looking for, so this saves me a couple extra steps there. If I know exactly what I am looking for the search suggestions allow me to go directly to it. The one thing I do not like about the iOS6 App Store is the amount of horizontal scrolling on the iPhone. Not enough space for that to work well.
caycep 14y ago
isn't this the layout of that app store discovery startup they bought a while back? chomp or something like that?
- goshon 14y ago
  Yep, same layout exactly.
ouriel 14y ago
the very first assumption of this post is fragile "Although Apple doesn’t make these numbers public, I bet most people search instead of browse through the App Store categories to find the apps they’re looking for" 1. This is really far from certain. actually the reality is that most apps who get massive downloads from the app store got featured or from the top charts when they reach the top 1. I never heard a developer who had massive growth because he was "searched" 2. The App store has been redesigned mostly for visual discovery and not search. Explaining the streams, big stickers, card browsing If you want to be discovered in massive volume in the app store the only way is to get promoted or top ranked The other cases are edge cases and frankly do not justify complaining about how such results are displayed. Ouriel appsfire.com
- bad_user 14y ago
  I'm pretty sure that when it comes to apps linked to a well known brand (e.g. Picasa, Twitter, Flickr) or solve some kind of specific problem (todo, email, finances) do have downloads primarily from search. Discovery by being promoted or top ranked only works for apps where downloads are impulse-driven, games being the primary example. Searches on the other hand are intent driven, initiated by users that want to get something done. And I don't think developers of such utility apps want massive downloads, they just want to make a profit. Also your argument about discovery needing top ranking is circular. To get top ranking you first need discovery. This is where iTunes fails its customers - as it focuses on the new and the shinny, creating an environment where apps that build a reputation slowly have no place, which is why most apps in the app store are released in a fire and forget fashion.
acknickulous 14y ago
It's basically as bad as Nintendo's eShop on the 3DS now.
biftek 14y ago
Just searched for "picasa" on my (iOS 6) iPad. First two hits were apps that actually had picasa in the name, (the ones he mentions) followed by his apps. What exactly his he whining about? Search for a competing app and his doesn't come up first? Does he also complain to google (irony) about his page ranking? Why is this on the front page, let alone #1?
JumpCrisscross 14y ago
>"No offense to the makers of “Picasa HD Lite”, which ranks #1 in a search for “picasa,” but Web Albums’ 5-star average from 483 ratings should be ranked higher than a 2.5-star average from 30 ratings." No, if I search for X I want to get X, not a better rated app in the same category as X. If I search for "photo album" or something to that tune this argument would be valid.
- danboarder 14y ago
  @JumpCrisscross what you missed here is that "Web Albums" is the official google Picasa app for iOS. Picasa HD Lite is a low-rated knockoff optimized for appstore SEO. The author's point stands, the official Picasa app (Web Albums) should rank first.
  - JumpCrisscross 14y ago
    Ah, I stand corrected (and educated). Carry on.
    - clarky07 14y ago
      Not entirely. They should have the word Picasa in their title. If that is what it is, why not name the app, Picasa Web Albums?
  - Timothee 14y ago
    How is it the official app? It's not made by Google but by Pixite (author of the OP): http://www.webalbumsapp.com/ http://www.webalbumsapp.com/ Were they bought out or something? That page doesn't seem to indicate so.
    - danboarder 14y ago
      Thanks Timothee, you're right. Google's name for their Picasa albums product is "Web Albums" and the one the author in OP is talking about was by Pixite (not Google). But still, it has much higher user ratings and should rank higher. reference: http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=157000 http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans...
phil 14y ago
I'm concerned about this. App store search has had a heavy bias towards the top 4-5 results. This will only make that bias stronger.
furyofantares 14y ago
If you view the details of at least half of the apps in your search results up to the one you eventually buy, this change means it takes less effort to find the app you want to buy, and you get more information in the process. If I buy the sixth app in the search results and only care to review two of the earlier ones, the old method was 5 touches before the one I'm buying is in front of my face, while the new method is 5 swipes, and with the new method I get more information about the three I previously rejected based on icon/name alone. I'm pretty sure my own experience is that the item I am looking for is usually in the top 3 results, and I pretty much always review the top 3 results, so this feels like it will make it significantly easier for me to get to the apps I want to buy. I'll have to try it out to know, though. One thing I lose here if the 3rd app is the one I want is the confidence that the one I really want isn't somewhere in 4-10. It will take some usage to know if the new design is better for me or not.
- cdmoyer 14y ago
  Yeah, the premise about user behavior in this post feels wrong. I never browse the app store by searching. I search for a specific thing by name and it's normally a top result. I browse by category.
- guelo 14y ago
  I don't buy it, users will probably click into each app anyway because they will want to see more than one screenshot and the comments.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- clarky07 14y ago
  I think you could be right to a point for people that have quality apps that are already ranking, but I think this is going to make fewer total apps seen and therefore make it even harder for new apps to gain traction. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid any app outside the top 5 search results will have sales go to 0.
brevityness 14y ago
The App Store crashes on my iPod Touch 4th gen whenever I conduct a search. I can barely flip past the first app before it crashes altogether.
induscreep 14y ago
I like the new App Store layout. One of the first thing I look for in an app is how intrusive the ads are - and looking at the screenshots shows me exactly that. This new layout is perfect for this app search strategy.
- stickfigure 14y ago
  Screenshots are submitted by the app developers. You expect them to include ads in those screenshots? Comical.
apphero 14y ago
Since the App Store search algorithm update in June, my apps have seen a 60% drop in sales. Before the search changes, two of my apps steadily made me around $40k a year for three years. The drop in sales concerned me so I paid for external advertising and marketing. It did not help. One of my apps was featured by Apple twice. Now when you search for it by its exact name, some free spam app shows up above my app. I am expecting another huge sale decline starting this month thanks to the new iOS6 App Store. I'm not sure how anyone can see this change as being rational. This change is as bad for customers as it is for developers. As for me, I had a good run on the App Store. But the world is not ending. It's just time to look into other income streams.
grey-area 14y ago
While I disagree with the linkbait hyperbole of the article title, Apple have taken a misstep here. What they should have done is allowed the user to flip between a list view of results or a card view when introducing this new view type, rather than just replacing the list. Re searches I'd expect a simple search for picasa to return apps with picasa in the name before other apps, no matter how popular they are. The frustration I have with the App Store is that it doesn't have enough control over subcategories and filtering so it's hard to filter results or browse effectively as the categories offered are so broad.
chmars 14y ago
'With this new layout, people will be less likely to try out apps that aren’t at the top of the results.' I wish I could try out apps in the App Store, that feature has been missing from day one. I agree, however, that it remains very difficult to find apps directly in the App Store. I mostly go to the App Store via recommendations from friends and on websites since looking myself for an app, recently for example for a clock and timer app for my iPad (no longer necessary with iOS 6), has almost never been a success. I know most apps are not expensive but neither online nor offline do I like to spend money for things I don't use, i.e., I need a possibility to check an app or any other product in advance. Reviews could replace such a check but there are not very helpful in the App Store either. In my case – living in a relatively small country – most apps, even popular ones, have no reviews at all …
spaghetti 14y ago
As an iOS developer I'm not too thrilled about this. However as a mobile developer I'm actually happy to see this. And I'm glad that Apple's review process is pissing off developers. And I'm glad that Apple took an awesome, frequently used app (Google maps) and just removed it. And I'm glad that the new devices' taller screens make developers' lives harder (at least in some cases). Why am I glad? Because all these screw ups provide incentives for developers and other companies to stay in the game and compete with Apple. So as mobile developers I believe it's in our best interests to have a diverse ecosystem that's not dominated by a single company or at the very least where there exist incentives for multiple organizations to compete and innovate.
sukuriant 14y ago
Okay. I wanted to see the App Store in action; and ... I'm confused. Is there any sort of YouTube video that has the more recent app store? I was watching this review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-vcmBjN50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-vcmBjN50 which is allegedly about iOS 6; and ... that App Store doesn't look bad at all. I mean, I prefer up-and-down scrolling over horizontal scrolling when I'm looking for things, but that's nowhere near what was shown in the article. ... Help? Edit: found one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MbPqEfKRnU0# http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M...! It looks like it works better on the iPad
janlukacs 14y ago
iOS6 - ugly maps, ugly dialer, ugly appstore. 'nuff said.
hnriot 14y ago
Aside from the design issues of layout and information density, for me the new store doesn't work half the time, I click links for reviews and nothing happens, or I click more reviews (because its shown me just one for some reason) and again nothing. Without some clue as to what is clickable (this is basic design stuff) it's hard to know what is supposed to work and what isn't. I'm sure the store will go through some rapid evolution in the next few weeks and there are likely some very stressed devs down in Cupertino right now, but for the moment this just looks like that were nowhere near ready to ship iOS 6. Of my dozen or so friends that upgraded their iPhones about half of them had stalled upgrades and needed to hard reset at least once.
dcope 14y ago
I wouldn't say that the App Store is broken, but that it is terribly hard to use. For instance, after you've searched for something and paged through you want to view more information so you tap on it. After tapping to go back to the results, you're placed at the beginning of the results. If you want to compare applications that are deep within the results it's going to take quite some time.
beaker 14y ago
I was very excited when I saw early versions of the new app store that eliminated the need to page through search results five apps at a time and replaced it with a scrollable list. Then at the last minute though, it seemed like Apple had a change of heart and added the screenshot-centered design - very disappointing from my perspective as both a user and developer..
ommunist 14y ago
In iOS6 I failed to find the way to sort app reviews to see critical first. Am I alone?
abegoosht 14y ago
the search function in itune or app store is so primitive and inaccurate that you want to bite your own head off. i have tried a while now to figure out the logic behind their search and so far its a dead end. on which planet you search for sudoku and you find hangman 44 k as the result number 24 on the list?
duder 14y ago
It is indeed broken. A fun daily ritual for me has been to surf new releases using the 'release date' tab. This is how I find my apps. Some of my favorites have never been on the 'new and noteworthy', 'editor's choice', or 'top...' Charts. I don't give a rat's ass what some crap algorithm or hipster-douchebag-cubicle-jockey-apple-employee considers worthy. Maybe this is a good thing as I spend way too much money in the App Store.

272 points by Mazer23 14y ago

mtgx 14y ago

Sounds like Apple's algorithm for the App Store is pretty horrible and primitive. I wonder if most of the success stories came mainly from the fact that Apple was picking them for their feature lists.

lbotos 14y ago
For better or worse apple did acquire chomp sometime back: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-chomp-a-provider-of-tools-for-searching-apps.html http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-27/apple-buys-chomp... I'm not sure how much they had to do with this but they actively have people trying to solve "app store discovery". 95% of Apps I've ever purchased have been due to personal recommendation or web review. I don't think I've ever browsed the app store for purchase. (I know I'm in the minority)
taligent 14y ago
Yeh I can't imagine apps like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Angry Birds being popular without Apple featuring them. Oh wait. And I am not sure what specifically makes the algorithm primitive.

seangransee 14y ago

It's unlikely that Apple will fix this any time soon. I can't think of a single time when Apple gave one of their pre-loaded apps an overhaul except when releasing the next major version of iOS.

arn 14y ago
App Store is basically just a web browser, so easier for them to upgrade. They do make changes over time that don't require software updates. One big one I remember is forcing people to have bought an app to be able to rate it. But you are probably right that a major overhaul in short time isn't their style.

jpdoctor 14y ago

Could the message be any more clear? Stop putting Apple in your critical path. They hold all the cards and you hold none.

mannkind 14y ago
Of course! There's no possible way to promote your app other than telling users to search for it in the App Store. If having users stumble upon your app is in your critical path, you have other problems. The search results have always been less-than-stellar whether you could scroll through 25 results in 1s or 11s.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  Why hasn't Google jumped on this? If I search for "todo app" in Google, I get mostly blogs (SEO experts) and one app that apparently was the first to ask for the name Todo. Shouldn't Google trigger a special view like they do when you search for "CITY_NAME weather" or "MOVIE_TITLE showtimes"?
  - mayanksinghal 14y ago
    You mean platform dependent results? If the person is accessing from Web then web apps, from Android then playstore results etc... Sounds nice actually!
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      If you're logged in Google knows what smartphone you own, might as well serve app results tailored to you.

sumukh1 14y ago

This is awesome news (though it's been known for a while) for the top publishers who have: large download numbers, good AppStore SEO, and good screenshots. While I think that this is bad on whole for developers/discovery as we knew it, it might just help users. Most of the time, users are either window shopping or looking for a very specific product. Window Shoppers: "I want a photo editing app", chances are you are going to look at the first result and scroll down and see if a icon stands out. With the new model, you see the screenshots too. Could save time over, tapping into an app, tapping into reviews, and then tapping back twice. This means that the icon is downplayed in sales and the first screenshot has become extremely important. Very Specific Product: "I'm looking for Gmail" It's quicker to just get the first result and confirm that it's actually what you are looking for. This however means that Apple has to be really confident in their search results (which aren't as great as they can be). Net effect for developers: 1. App Store SEO is important. (It always was, but now I think developers will start to see it now in their app sales) 2. Your copy on the sales page should also grab users attention. 3. Your first screenshot is very important. Your screenshots should be good. (Link: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-tutorials/app-store_screenshot-design_iphone-desig/ http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-design-tutorials...) 4. Also note, categories have been removed from the app tab bar. 5. Ratings seem to matter a lot for the search algorithm but not for Featured apps 6. This is the "Chomp" update, and Chomp has been known to get content from Blogs and various sources, so you should be mentioned off the App Store too. 7. Facebook Likes also help since those are displayed. Here's a cheat sheet that seemed useful: http://www.apptamin.com/ASO_Cheat_Sheet-v2.pdf http://www.apptamin.com/ASO_Cheat_Sheet-v2.pdf

jlmendezbonini 14y ago
Where are Facebook likes displayed? I can't seem them in the either version of the AppStore (Web, inside iTunes, from iPad).
- sumukh1 14y ago
  Check under the reviews tab. It's under the FB section of this page: http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#facebook-gallery-like http://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/#facebook-gallery-like

jeffpalmer 14y ago

I saw the new style search directly after I upgraded to iOS 6. I just opened the app store again after reading this post and now I am getting search results in the old list style. I wonder if Apple decided to switch back? Screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08.25.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl7w37pwuti87en/2012-09-19%2021.08...

ojbyrne 14y ago

I'm looking at it on an iPad that I just upgraded, and it doesn't look like that. I can see 4 full products, and the top of two more in 2 vertical columns.

firat 14y ago

I agree that iOS 6 layout is ridiculous and far from usable. However, if you are building an app for Picasa, it better have "Picasa" in its name. The results are probably sorted by relevance (whatever that might be) and not only by ratings.

alecst 14y ago

The number one search for "picasa" should be Picasa.

ja27 14y ago
There is no official Picasa in the iTunes App Store.
- henriks 14y ago
  There is, however, an official YouTube application, which was hit number 10 for the search "youtube", after a bunch of shady video downloader apps. If I hadn't known there actually was an official application I would've given up after swiping through the first five.

bradsmithinc 14y ago

Hacker News broke your blog.

slipperyp 14y ago
I think they put the 18 point font in their all on their own.

binaryorganic 14y ago

And HN broke this article

omarqazi 14y ago

When searching for apps, do you guys usually immediately jump through the whole list? This is something I never do. However, I will look at apps one at a time and decide which one is best. On iOS 5 this meant clicking on each list item one by one, waiting (forever) for the app page to load, and eventually picking one. Allowing me to browse through apps one at a time and see all the information I need without ever leaving the screen seems like it would encourage discovery, not hurt it. I can even download the app right from the search screen AND I don't get thrown out of the App Store when I start the download so I can just download all the apps I want to try at once. This seems like a huge win to me. Do other people browse the App Store differently?

crag 14y ago
I browse the same way. And this new layout is a welcome change for me. Finally I don't have to drill down every app I'm interested in to see screen shots and comments.
- guelo 14y ago
  You mean screenshot(singluar) and no comments.

robomartin 14y ago

Well, app store searching and browsing through either an iPhone, iPad or even iTunes has been, to be kind, far less than desirable from day one. The same is true of iBooks. Apple has crappy search technology and even crappier implementations.

bpatrianakos 14y ago

Nothing is broken and no one is "doing it wrong". It's not broken, it's just inconvenient for you. This sucks for app developers with bad app store SEO and lackluster icons, app designs, and screenshots of said designs. Many apps at the bottom of the stack will be neglected. This is a good thing. I'm about to release an app into the app store for the first time and I'm happy about it. This will raise the bar for developers. It'll force them to do better app store SEO and it'll force the, to pay attention to design. Ugly apps aren't always necessarily bad but more ugly apps are bad than ugly apps that are good. This isn't Android. On iOS, users tend to judge an app by its icon and screenshots and they use pretty apps more than they open ugly ones. I didn't make the rules, I just play by them. Developers should be welcoming competition and with so many crap apps out there today it's probably better for good app developers to work on getting their rankings higher while the crap app makers languish at the end of the results. While its bad for developers it's great for buyers. Guess what? There are far more buyers than developers on the app store. You may argue that if developers leave then iOS will die. Not so. Again, iOS users are a different animal. They can live with just a few big name apps from the major players. Android users tend to like lots of apps from indie devs and iOS users do too but if push came to shove they'd just keep their Angry Birds, Skype, Facebook, Twitter, and Yelp and go on with their day. Screenshots are very important in the buying process and putting them front and center like this. As developers we tend to think we're the center of the universe. We place far too much importance on our role than is deserved. Witness the outrage over Twitter's API. While developers were screaming about revolt the users barely noticed and kept tweeting away. Meanwhile Twitter pretty much gave us the finger because they know we'll be back because they have the users. Developers are like parents in a way. We raise a platform then the platform rebels. We threaten to cut them off but by that point the platform is all grown up and doesn't need our help anymore. iOS won't be hurt by developers leaving. If developers leave over not being found in search results then by definition they're leaving because no one's using the app. Who's going to miss an app that never gets used?

tzs 14y ago
As a buyer, I don't see how it is great for me. When I search on the App Store there are usually several hits in the results that are not at all interesting to me, and ahead of the hits that better match what I'm looking for. I want to see several results at once so I can pick which ones I want to look into more deeply. If I have to step through them one at a time with a noticeable delay at each step, I'm not going to be a happy buyer.

ghshephard 14y ago

I've purchased about $1000 worth of applications on the iPhone/iPad in the last 4+ years, about 350 or so in total. 95%+ of the time I chose the very first app in the list. I don't recall the last time I was looking for an App that I didn't know the name of - but perhaps others use the App store differently. Of course, this is negative for publishers who are trying to leverage the search field with "like names" and, for those publishers who get business from people searching for random apps in a particular category. But, in general, this is good for people like me - who heard about a great new app by name on a podcast, and just want to try it out - having the extra data around the screenshot is useful.

jojopotato 14y ago

On a side note, could you imagine Google changing their search results to this kind of layout? I think it would probably trigger a ton of lawsuits.

pepdek 14y ago
Google doesn't owe you anything, it's their service and we use their search engine for free. They'd scoff at every single lawsuit, if it ever got that far. It might be a bad product decision. And organizing the app store based on app-store SEO is wise, opens up a new market and forces devs to reconsider their app design.

Jarshwah 14y ago

Came expecting news that the app store would not launch in iOS 6. Title is definitely more provocative than it needed to be.

jsz0 14y ago

Pre-iOS6 I would often go through and tap on each search result to look at the screenshots, assuming I didn't already know exactly what I was looking for, so this saves me a couple extra steps there. If I know exactly what I am looking for the search suggestions allow me to go directly to it. The one thing I do not like about the iOS6 App Store is the amount of horizontal scrolling on the iPhone. Not enough space for that to work well.

caycep 14y ago

isn't this the layout of that app store discovery startup they bought a while back? chomp or something like that?

goshon 14y ago
Yep, same layout exactly.

ouriel 14y ago

the very first assumption of this post is fragile "Although Apple doesn’t make these numbers public, I bet most people search instead of browse through the App Store categories to find the apps they’re looking for" 1. This is really far from certain. actually the reality is that most apps who get massive downloads from the app store got featured or from the top charts when they reach the top 1. I never heard a developer who had massive growth because he was "searched" 2. The App store has been redesigned mostly for visual discovery and not search. Explaining the streams, big stickers, card browsing If you want to be discovered in massive volume in the app store the only way is to get promoted or top ranked The other cases are edge cases and frankly do not justify complaining about how such results are displayed. Ouriel appsfire.com

bad_user 14y ago
I'm pretty sure that when it comes to apps linked to a well known brand (e.g. Picasa, Twitter, Flickr) or solve some kind of specific problem (todo, email, finances) do have downloads primarily from search. Discovery by being promoted or top ranked only works for apps where downloads are impulse-driven, games being the primary example. Searches on the other hand are intent driven, initiated by users that want to get something done. And I don't think developers of such utility apps want massive downloads, they just want to make a profit. Also your argument about discovery needing top ranking is circular. To get top ranking you first need discovery. This is where iTunes fails its customers - as it focuses on the new and the shinny, creating an environment where apps that build a reputation slowly have no place, which is why most apps in the app store are released in a fire and forget fashion.

acknickulous 14y ago

It's basically as bad as Nintendo's eShop on the 3DS now.

biftek 14y ago

Just searched for "picasa" on my (iOS 6) iPad. First two hits were apps that actually had picasa in the name, (the ones he mentions) followed by his apps. What exactly his he whining about? Search for a competing app and his doesn't come up first? Does he also complain to google (irony) about his page ranking? Why is this on the front page, let alone #1?

JumpCrisscross 14y ago

>"No offense to the makers of “Picasa HD Lite”, which ranks #1 in a search for “picasa,” but Web Albums’ 5-star average from 483 ratings should be ranked higher than a 2.5-star average from 30 ratings." No, if I search for X I want to get X, not a better rated app in the same category as X. If I search for "photo album" or something to that tune this argument would be valid.

danboarder 14y ago
@JumpCrisscross what you missed here is that "Web Albums" is the official google Picasa app for iOS. Picasa HD Lite is a low-rated knockoff optimized for appstore SEO. The author's point stands, the official Picasa app (Web Albums) should rank first.
- JumpCrisscross 14y ago
  Ah, I stand corrected (and educated). Carry on.
  - clarky07 14y ago
    Not entirely. They should have the word Picasa in their title. If that is what it is, why not name the app, Picasa Web Albums?
- Timothee 14y ago
  How is it the official app? It's not made by Google but by Pixite (author of the OP): http://www.webalbumsapp.com/ http://www.webalbumsapp.com/ Were they bought out or something? That page doesn't seem to indicate so.
  - danboarder 14y ago
    Thanks Timothee, you're right. Google's name for their Picasa albums product is "Web Albums" and the one the author in OP is talking about was by Pixite (not Google). But still, it has much higher user ratings and should rank higher. reference: http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=157000 http://support.google.com/picasa/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans...

phil 14y ago

I'm concerned about this. App store search has had a heavy bias towards the top 4-5 results. This will only make that bias stronger.

furyofantares 14y ago

If you view the details of at least half of the apps in your search results up to the one you eventually buy, this change means it takes less effort to find the app you want to buy, and you get more information in the process. If I buy the sixth app in the search results and only care to review two of the earlier ones, the old method was 5 touches before the one I'm buying is in front of my face, while the new method is 5 swipes, and with the new method I get more information about the three I previously rejected based on icon/name alone. I'm pretty sure my own experience is that the item I am looking for is usually in the top 3 results, and I pretty much always review the top 3 results, so this feels like it will make it significantly easier for me to get to the apps I want to buy. I'll have to try it out to know, though. One thing I lose here if the 3rd app is the one I want is the confidence that the one I really want isn't somewhere in 4-10. It will take some usage to know if the new design is better for me or not.

cdmoyer 14y ago
Yeah, the premise about user behavior in this post feels wrong. I never browse the app store by searching. I search for a specific thing by name and it's normally a top result. I browse by category.
guelo 14y ago
I don't buy it, users will probably click into each app anyway because they will want to see more than one screenshot and the comments.

deleted 14y ago

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clarky07 14y ago
I think you could be right to a point for people that have quality apps that are already ranking, but I think this is going to make fewer total apps seen and therefore make it even harder for new apps to gain traction. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid any app outside the top 5 search results will have sales go to 0.

brevityness 14y ago

The App Store crashes on my iPod Touch 4th gen whenever I conduct a search. I can barely flip past the first app before it crashes altogether.

induscreep 14y ago

I like the new App Store layout. One of the first thing I look for in an app is how intrusive the ads are - and looking at the screenshots shows me exactly that. This new layout is perfect for this app search strategy.

stickfigure 14y ago
Screenshots are submitted by the app developers. You expect them to include ads in those screenshots? Comical.

apphero 14y ago

Since the App Store search algorithm update in June, my apps have seen a 60% drop in sales. Before the search changes, two of my apps steadily made me around $40k a year for three years. The drop in sales concerned me so I paid for external advertising and marketing. It did not help. One of my apps was featured by Apple twice. Now when you search for it by its exact name, some free spam app shows up above my app. I am expecting another huge sale decline starting this month thanks to the new iOS6 App Store. I'm not sure how anyone can see this change as being rational. This change is as bad for customers as it is for developers. As for me, I had a good run on the App Store. But the world is not ending. It's just time to look into other income streams.

grey-area 14y ago

While I disagree with the linkbait hyperbole of the article title, Apple have taken a misstep here. What they should have done is allowed the user to flip between a list view of results or a card view when introducing this new view type, rather than just replacing the list. Re searches I'd expect a simple search for picasa to return apps with picasa in the name before other apps, no matter how popular they are. The frustration I have with the App Store is that it doesn't have enough control over subcategories and filtering so it's hard to filter results or browse effectively as the categories offered are so broad.

chmars 14y ago

'With this new layout, people will be less likely to try out apps that aren’t at the top of the results.' I wish I could try out apps in the App Store, that feature has been missing from day one. I agree, however, that it remains very difficult to find apps directly in the App Store. I mostly go to the App Store via recommendations from friends and on websites since looking myself for an app, recently for example for a clock and timer app for my iPad (no longer necessary with iOS 6), has almost never been a success. I know most apps are not expensive but neither online nor offline do I like to spend money for things I don't use, i.e., I need a possibility to check an app or any other product in advance. Reviews could replace such a check but there are not very helpful in the App Store either. In my case – living in a relatively small country – most apps, even popular ones, have no reviews at all …

spaghetti 14y ago

As an iOS developer I'm not too thrilled about this. However as a mobile developer I'm actually happy to see this. And I'm glad that Apple's review process is pissing off developers. And I'm glad that Apple took an awesome, frequently used app (Google maps) and just removed it. And I'm glad that the new devices' taller screens make developers' lives harder (at least in some cases). Why am I glad? Because all these screw ups provide incentives for developers and other companies to stay in the game and compete with Apple. So as mobile developers I believe it's in our best interests to have a diverse ecosystem that's not dominated by a single company or at the very least where there exist incentives for multiple organizations to compete and innovate.

sukuriant 14y ago

Okay. I wanted to see the App Store in action; and ... I'm confused. Is there any sort of YouTube video that has the more recent app store? I was watching this review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-vcmBjN50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO-vcmBjN50 which is allegedly about iOS 6; and ... that App Store doesn't look bad at all. I mean, I prefer up-and-down scrolling over horizontal scrolling when I'm looking for things, but that's nowhere near what was shown in the article. ... Help? Edit: found one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MbPqEfKRnU0# http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M...! It looks like it works better on the iPad

janlukacs 14y ago

iOS6 - ugly maps, ugly dialer, ugly appstore. 'nuff said.

hnriot 14y ago

Aside from the design issues of layout and information density, for me the new store doesn't work half the time, I click links for reviews and nothing happens, or I click more reviews (because its shown me just one for some reason) and again nothing. Without some clue as to what is clickable (this is basic design stuff) it's hard to know what is supposed to work and what isn't. I'm sure the store will go through some rapid evolution in the next few weeks and there are likely some very stressed devs down in Cupertino right now, but for the moment this just looks like that were nowhere near ready to ship iOS 6. Of my dozen or so friends that upgraded their iPhones about half of them had stalled upgrades and needed to hard reset at least once.

dcope 14y ago

I wouldn't say that the App Store is broken, but that it is terribly hard to use. For instance, after you've searched for something and paged through you want to view more information so you tap on it. After tapping to go back to the results, you're placed at the beginning of the results. If you want to compare applications that are deep within the results it's going to take quite some time.

beaker 14y ago

I was very excited when I saw early versions of the new app store that eliminated the need to page through search results five apps at a time and replaced it with a scrollable list. Then at the last minute though, it seemed like Apple had a change of heart and added the screenshot-centered design - very disappointing from my perspective as both a user and developer..

ommunist 14y ago

In iOS6 I failed to find the way to sort app reviews to see critical first. Am I alone?

abegoosht 14y ago

the search function in itune or app store is so primitive and inaccurate that you want to bite your own head off. i have tried a while now to figure out the logic behind their search and so far its a dead end. on which planet you search for sudoku and you find hangman 44 k as the result number 24 on the list?

duder 14y ago

It is indeed broken. A fun daily ritual for me has been to surf new releases using the 'release date' tab. This is how I find my apps. Some of my favorites have never been on the 'new and noteworthy', 'editor's choice', or 'top...' Charts. I don't give a rat's ass what some crap algorithm or hipster-douchebag-cubicle-jockey-apple-employee considers worthy. Maybe this is a good thing as I spend way too much money in the App Store.