9 ms·

Let Kids Be Loud

124 points by trevin 1y ago

didibus 1y ago
Kind of interested for someone to look into if hearing children noise is healthy, I could imagine it actually affecting one's hormonal response and such, but also maybe not.
- klank 1y ago
  Anecdotally, children making "children noises" is calming for me. It was not until after I was a parent myself though. Like many things in life, once I had the connection in my own personal life, it is now very easy and automatic for me to empathize and support other children. It feels deep, like more an automatic response.
  - junga 1y ago
    Can't exactly remember how I reacted to children noises before I had kids myself. But I must admit that nowadays noise from other kids makes me smile because 'not my problem'.
    - klank 1y ago
      Hehe, excellent point. Parenthood helped teach me the pleasure of the absence of stress.
- KolmogorovComp 1y ago
  No. I thought it was widely known that kindergarten employees suffer from earing loss due to repeated exposure to high sound level from the screaming kids.
ysavir 1y ago
I live next door to a summer camp. The kind that has kids from the nearby city come for 2 weeks, sleep in bunks, play outside all day, hike, etc. A few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house, and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it. Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be so annoying. I'd hate that." I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and sour. Guess I hit a nerve.
- johnfn 1y ago
  Maybe because he was trying to make small talk and you insulted his profession?
  - askafriend 1y ago
    Definitely this. A total lack of awareness and tact demonstrated by OP.
    - justinrubek 1y ago
      This is a very ironic comment.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - reverendsteveii 1y ago
      The point of the story is that OP is absolutely aware of their lack of tact.
  - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
    i can't tell how much of a point you're trying to make, but if complaining about children playing is small talk, the less of it the better.
  - the_cat_kittles 1y ago
    social skills of hn on display
  - gilfoy 1y ago
    The age old profession of generating small engine noise pollution
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      [flagged]
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
i think this started happening before the "iPad generation" we all love to bemoan, but it seems like practically overnight, kids were no longer expected to play outside (for all the reasons we've heard ad nauseum, especially those that fly in the face of declining violent crime statistics and increased communication media)... and rather than reflect on that, latently-cranky adults adapted immediately to the disappearance of children from public life. what a shame. i grew up one of those kids playing in parking lots and riding bikes through apartment complexes in my neighborhood looking for jumps, cool free piles and generally just places to be a kid. i hope (not much, but somewhat) that with this increased recognition of the less-desirable effects of throwing kids in front of a screen, indoors, apart from each other, that we'll start to see kids reintegrate into the fabric of society. it's so important for kids to interact with people as they learn about the world, and it seems equally important for adults to realize that they're a part of the same community as parents and children.
- spjt 1y ago
  I wonder how much there is an increased concern about injury, I have three kids and by the time I was their age I had spent more time in the emergency room than all three of them put together. I go to my kids' school from time to time and I don't think I've ever seen a kid in a cast.
bartread 1y ago
We have kids of various ages playing outside all the time when the weather is good and, yes, they are loud. At least, sometimes they're loud, but they aren't always, and you get used to it. I think it's good for kids to get outside. So generally it's not an issue and we just sort of tune it out and get on with our days but there is this one kid who only communicates by screaming at the top of their lungs at very high pitch constantly all day. Literally morning til night. That gets pretty annoying although, fortunately, the particular kid is not always around. If I knew who the parents were I'd probably have had a polite word with them already because it's just so unnecessary even by the standards of excited and energetic children.
- dustbunny 1y ago
  I recommend you not comment on this kids screaming. These parents might be extremely self conscious of their kids screaming. They might have constant anxiety about it. Your "polite" word could hurt far more than you imagine, and I doubt the screaming is something fixable with a little elbow grease from the parents.
  - drukenemo 1y ago
    Are you serious about this advice? Parents cannot be politely approached by a neighbor, because their kids, who they chose to have, are disturbing others regularly?
    - bartread 1y ago
      Yeah, I mean, I didn't type it out longform, but step 1 is obviously to find out what's going on. There might be some very strong underlying cause for the behaviour that means it's going to be difficult or impossible to change... but you can't find that out if you don't talk to the parents. Knowledge promotes understanding, etc.
    - dustbunny 1y ago
      Yeah I'm serious. I tread carefully giving parenting advice to even my best friends. It's a hugely sensitive topic.
petercooper 1y ago
For years our neighborhood had an ice cream truck or two turn up a few days a week during summer, which we used to enjoy. This year, not a single one. I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The guy said one person had complained about the noise so the local council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn't worth it for one hour and moved on to other local towns. So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.
- taylorlapeyre 1y ago
  I agree, but with a caveat about ice cream trucks specifically. If they park in one spot and play the same jingle very loudly for hours on end (say, three to four hours in one location outside of your home), it is in fact insanely maddening.
  - johnthedebs 1y ago
    I may be more sound sensitive than most, but if I could hear it loudly for even 5-10 minutes I'd be annoyed. 3-4 hours? While I'm at home? Absolutely no way; I'd complain too.
    - petercooper 1y ago
      In the UK stationary ice cream trucks don't play music, only those travelling around, so you hear it for a couple of minutes at most as it winds around the neighborhood. I'd also be complaining if it was going on for hours :-)
  - masfuerte 1y ago
    The UK has rules about this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-on-noise-from-ice-cream-van-chimes https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-... Among other things, playing the jingle in the same place repeatedly is prohibited.
voxleone 1y ago
I'm noticing a reversal of social deference: -Then: Older generations had the cultural authority, and children were expected to conform. -Now: There’s increasing tolerance—and even privilege—granted to children (and parents), sometimes at the expense of quiet, order, or adult comfort. Hypothesis: This shift reflects a society aware of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity.
- kreco 1y ago
  Sometimes there are properties about generations that get carried "alternatively" as cycles. The generation that got too much authority will give the next generation more space (louder generation). Then the loud generation will create louder generation and authority will come back, etc. It's just an example and I don't think the loudness is part of those properties but the abstract mechanism has been observed along few generation (I think this mechanism had a proper name but I cannot find it again).
  - junga 1y ago
    > (I think this mechanism had a proper name but I cannot find it again). Are you referring to the Strauss–Howe generational theory? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theo...
- marssaxman 1y ago
  I think it is quite the opposite: what is novel is that this has come before the court at all. Nobody would have dreamed of expecting children to stay inside and be quiet all day during my childhood, nor that of my parents, nor their parents; rather, we were often made to go play outside.
- thefz 1y ago
  > This shift reflects a society aware of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity. Pretty sure no one is valuing kids more because they are "scarce".
pizzafeelsright 1y ago
Kids are mildly annoying but generally there's a time and a place. I have kids. I love a loud house with quiet time. Loud children above age 2ish in the movie theater or restaurant are to be behaved because of the proximity of others. Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk
- timcobb 1y ago
  This. My child can shriek at what really feels like ear-piercing frequencies and decibels.
  - pizzafeelsright 1y ago
    Thankfully boys grow out of it but girls can hit that frequency that cuts the skin. The general rule is no screaming without a good reason. As for those without parenting experience there isn't anything you can do short of killing the infant to get it quiet. They go from struggling to inconsolable which is literally a place where they have to exhaust themselves before they calm down. If the parent could quiet the kid they would. I've experienced it a few times and despite all my experience and skills the child couldn't be soothed until tired enough to respond positively. In most cases it's less than 90 minutes unless there's a physical reason. Then it can be 8 hours. Bless the parents with children with damaged biology.
- Neywiny 1y ago
  One of my favorite stories is a flight with a mom and a few kids. Her oldest started shrieking at some point, likely due to the air pressure change. The mom said something like (calmly) "there's nothing anymore can do about it, so what do you want to happen?" And the kid shut up
- IanCal 1y ago
  > Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk I think broadly if you’re doing something you just need to do, then a kid being a kid (particularly babies) is fine. Even if it’s annoying, that’s just life. Beyond that you need to pick your place - I’m happy taking my young kids to dinner where there’s other kids and noise, I’d not take them to a quiet tasting menu place. Having said that, someone with an upset baby is probably having a worse time than I am and I can usually just sympathise, sometimes things are more out of someone’s control than you think.
gedy 1y ago
We seem less tolerant of kids these days, and more tolerant of dogs.
- c22 1y ago
  The other day an unleashed dog ran into my yard from the adjacent park and the woman escorting it informed me that I should build a fence!
  - gedy 1y ago
    Yeah I like dogs, but growing up we treated them as a home and backyard pet only, having them run around in neighborhood or bringing to stores or restaurants(!) would have been unthinkable. I really don't get it.
    - c22 1y ago
      I didn't even have a problem with the dog being there. The lady was put out that she had to fight through some brambles to come over and retrieve it.
Aurornis 1y ago
I always have a hard time interpreting these stories. Is this really a trend? Or is it an example of someone collecting anecdotes from all around the world and presenting it as a trend? The internet makes it easier than ever to search for anecdotes around the world that support an idea, but a collection of global anecdotes does not indicate a trend. There are billions of people in the world and some of them are cranky and intolerant. If we're sharing anecdotes: I've had nothing but positive responses to my kids playing, even loudly. Obviously I'm not taking them to a library, school, or other dedicated quiet place to play, but the overwhelming majority of people in my area smile and laugh when they see kids playing, loudly or not.
- foxglacier 1y ago
  If it was real, they author would have shown some data to support that. So yea, it's just random anecdotes to make it look like there's something for people to be outraged about.
- klank 1y ago
  I'll add to it. My neighbor and I were just recently chitchatting how we love the new family that moved into the neighborhood a few years ago. We love the vibe and color their family adds and it's a large part because they're very visible and audible. General "kid mayhem" happening all over their yard. It often spills into the street. More than once I have to slow down and wait for the children wailing on their friends with boxing gloves to clear out of the street so I can drive through. It's wonderful. They're close to the entrance of our neighborhood too, which means everybody coming through there is primed to go slow and watch out for kids. It has such a great, calming effect on the overall neighborhood.
- aidenn0 1y ago
  People complaining about being disturbed by kids playing is at least as old as I am, and probably has existed since about 5 minutes after the first kid was born.
eggsandbeer 1y ago
No.
BrenBarn 1y ago
Kids playing is great, but I think this article glosses over some important wrinkles. A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great --- that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. . . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the middle of the floor, and so on. Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can be subcategories with different expectations. This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids, and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.
- pier25 1y ago
  > parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids Absolutely. Kids being loud when playing football or at the beach is fine and even expected. Letting your kids run around the theater is not fine. You're ruining the experience for everyone.
- arp242 1y ago
  I agree there are some kids and parents who are just unreasonably and/or obnoxious loud in unreasonable moments; I don't think anyone really denies this. I've seen kids race on scooters in supermarkets while the parents were right there. Ugh. But at least some of these complains have been about really quite reasonable and limited noise levels. For example at my last apartment some kids played out in the courtyard during summer. It really wasn't that often or all that loud. There were a few people who complained as if the kids were out of control, but that wasn't the case at all.
airstrike 1y ago
There's a difference between being loud in public vs privately. As a kid, I was never allowed to be loud in a restaurant, unless it was a restaurant for kids—and even then up to a reasonable limit
- drukenemo 1y ago
  That’s a reasonable argument. But in this day and age there are no shades of grey.
  - airstrike 1y ago
    The attention economy is killing society. Current social media feed algorithms are incredibly harmful. This isn't a new topic but ironically it is not given the attention it urgently requires.
Apreche 1y ago
Yes, go ahead. Be loud and play outside. But I’m pretty sure I have misophonia, so just be loud somewhere not near me.
- npteljes 1y ago
  I feel the same and I wish to have your level of eloquence the next time I'm expressing this.
guywithahat 1y ago
[flagged]
- loco5niner 1y ago
  You haven't met my native white children apparently
- wizzwizz4 1y ago
  There are native white populations in the US? And just when I thought I understood how Americans defined the category "white"…
  - sophacles 1y ago
    American white supremacists can't figure out a definition of "white". I doubt anyone will ever get a handle on it. (e.g. do you include Italians? Jewish people? What about Turks or Armenians? Eastern Europeans? There's all sorts of disagreements about what "white" is in the most racist groups out there... because the whole concept is fucking stupid).
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  That sounds very interesting. Would you mind pointing me to some documented measurements that suggest this so that I can study them?
rock_artist 1y ago
As we’re in tech, loud or noise are very implicit and can really range. Reading this on Amsterdam, I know many others countries where there won’t be such a discussion at all about a soccer field outside a building. I come from a place where children and the population is noisy due to many factors. every time we went as family on a holiday (With dutch people as an example), I saw my children become less and less vocal only to become loud as they were once we were back home. Recently, we’ve relocated to Spain. It’s only a few months but still, I thought my children would get become less noisy similar to what we saw on holidays after a while… But nothing changed, and also hearing other children here, they’re in the same “noisy” levels as my kids. So there’s also a cultural aspect that needs to be considered about what is loud or how children are expected to behave, add immigration to that and cultural differences and you got so many factors.
tetha 1y ago
Hm. I think I am encountering cultural differences here, again. Personally, I have a point from my grandma in my head: "If your ears are ringing from happy, playing children, that's future in your ears. That's good". For sure, within reason, but a huge ruckus in the shared backyard or playground between 08:00 or 20:00 due to kids? That's what kids to. I rather get worried if they abruptly stop, or start yelling differently. I don't even have kids, but I'll still take a look wether a kid of a neighbour mananged to add a temporary third joint to their arm, is bleeding a worrying amount or something like that.
EGreg 1y ago
I was just writing two days ago about how ADHD is overdiagnosed and our system is just set up to try to coerce kids to be convenient for the system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274 There I put forward some proposals at the end
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  I have under-diagnosed ADHD because my father was a Fox News disciple, science-hating, arrogant bigot who believed ADHD was a "conspiracy" of anti-male leftists.
  - EGreg 1y ago
    I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people. But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically. As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term is thrown around.
    - burnt-resistor 1y ago
      > I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people. You're minimizing and trivializing my situation and opinion as invalid. > But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically. Well, being called "weird" and routinely dissed and dismissed as some sort of innate character flaw. > As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term is thrown around. I'm not familiar with many or hardly anyone (except crazies) on the left being anti-science. What's your evidence for this?
mensetmanusman 1y ago
Free noise cancelling airpods for all. I don’t hear anything anymore.
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  WHAT!? ;)
YorickPeterse 1y ago
There's kids being noisy, which in itself isn't much of a problem, and then there's _Dutch kids_ being noisy, with the latter sounding more like a bunch of roosters at a heavy metal concert.
- drukenemo 1y ago
  That’s my experience too. I wonder why. Too much freedom given to the kids here?
christkv 1y ago
Thankfully this is not a problem in Spain (I think this is either a southern European thing or Spanish thing). Kids share adult spaces all the time being it restaurants, bar, plazas or other spaces. I would not trade this for the world. In general the country is a very welcoming one for children in public spaces including active children.
theultdev 1y ago
I don't really see any need to take parental advice from a blog. Not going to give advice either as we all have our own methods, but it's more or less the opposite of what this person is saying. Doesn't mean letting them sit mindlessly in front of screens, but screen time is okay as long as they are creating, not consuming. That has nothing to do with their noise levels though. There's a time and place. Outside with friends, yeah sure be loud within reason. In public around strangers? You better shut the hell up.
strathmeyer 1y ago
Our dorm was next to a playground in college. It was impossible to sleep in. They were literally just screaming at the top of their lungs for hours at a time. I guess it's different when it's someone else's day you're ruining.
dpifke 1y ago
A few months back, my wife and I had our windows open and heard some neighbors' kids playing drums and guitar in their garage. They were TERRIBLE. We're sad we haven't heard them again recently. I was hoping to follow along as they got better.
sarchertech 1y ago
I have 2 young kids, but I also had my first when I was 38 so I have a lot of experience as an adult with no kids. I’ve only ever been seriously annoyed by loud kids a handful of times in my entire life. Each time it was always travel sports teams at hotels. And I’m the kind of person who gets really annoyed at loud sounds like leaf blowers, and loud car stereos. Kids can be noisy, but I have never had dinner “ruined” by an uncontrolled kid. I’ve never had a movie ruined by loud kids (I have had movies nearly ruined by loud adults and older teenagers). I’ve never been seated near a baby crying on a plane that I couldn’t tune out—especially with headphones (that is until I flew with my own baby on a plane—can’t tune that out because you’re just desperate to get him to stop so you don’t annoy anyone else). I think people are just being overly sensitive.
- drukenemo 1y ago
  Your tolerance to noise levels says nothing about other people’s tolerance for it. Do not use your baseline to determine what is normal and what is not when it comes to sensorial experiences.
dekhn 1y ago
I live across the street from an elementary school and during recess it gets quite noisy. I don't particularly mind, with one big exception: some kids scream a lot. I normally associate that screaming sound with "there is an emergency, check for trouble", but it's just kids playing (and I hear the teachers telling them to stop). Even during the off season, there is noise; for example, the people doing construction work sometimes trip the fire alarm, which rings for hours because the site staff isn't around. I'd love to explain the idea of alarm fatigue, but from experience, people just think you're a jerk if you say "You should stop that alarm from turning on when there isn't a fire, because I will stop paying attention"
msds 1y ago
Ok but my neighborhood children have started using electric leaf blowers as jet propulsion on skateboards. I have insisted they use hearing protection, but the rest of us are shit out of luck…
thefz 1y ago
The issue I see is not with kids themselves but rather the parents, dumping them anywhere with no supervision because they need to "disconnect" doomscrolling on instagram. I played in the courtyard with neighboring kids all my infancy and as soon as the volume raised above a certain level, we were scolded immediately

124 points by trevin 1y ago

Kind of interested for someone to look into if hearing children noise is healthy, I could imagine it actually affecting one's hormonal response and such, but also maybe not.

klank 1y ago
Anecdotally, children making "children noises" is calming for me. It was not until after I was a parent myself though. Like many things in life, once I had the connection in my own personal life, it is now very easy and automatic for me to empathize and support other children. It feels deep, like more an automatic response.
- junga 1y ago
  Can't exactly remember how I reacted to children noises before I had kids myself. But I must admit that nowadays noise from other kids makes me smile because 'not my problem'.
  - klank 1y ago
    Hehe, excellent point. Parenthood helped teach me the pleasure of the absence of stress.
KolmogorovComp 1y ago
No. I thought it was widely known that kindergarten employees suffer from earing loss due to repeated exposure to high sound level from the screaming kids.

ysavir 1y ago

I live next door to a summer camp. The kind that has kids from the nearby city come for 2 weeks, sleep in bunks, play outside all day, hike, etc. A few months ago we had a carpenter doing some work on the house, and he was asking me about the camp and living so near to it. Eventually he asked "Are they loud when they play? That must be so annoying. I'd hate that." I replied "Nah, it's healthy and fun, and it doesn't travel as far as you'd think. The real annoying sounds are all the lawnmowers, weed whackers, and gasoline powered tools that people keep using throughout the summer". He immediately went quiet and sour. Guess I hit a nerve.

johnfn 1y ago
Maybe because he was trying to make small talk and you insulted his profession?
- askafriend 1y ago
  Definitely this. A total lack of awareness and tact demonstrated by OP.
  - justinrubek 1y ago
    This is a very ironic comment.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - reverendsteveii 1y ago
    The point of the story is that OP is absolutely aware of their lack of tact.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  i can't tell how much of a point you're trying to make, but if complaining about children playing is small talk, the less of it the better.
- the_cat_kittles 1y ago
  social skills of hn on display
- gilfoy 1y ago
  The age old profession of generating small engine noise pollution
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    [flagged]

GuinansEyebrows 1y ago

i think this started happening before the "iPad generation" we all love to bemoan, but it seems like practically overnight, kids were no longer expected to play outside (for all the reasons we've heard ad nauseum, especially those that fly in the face of declining violent crime statistics and increased communication media)... and rather than reflect on that, latently-cranky adults adapted immediately to the disappearance of children from public life. what a shame. i grew up one of those kids playing in parking lots and riding bikes through apartment complexes in my neighborhood looking for jumps, cool free piles and generally just places to be a kid. i hope (not much, but somewhat) that with this increased recognition of the less-desirable effects of throwing kids in front of a screen, indoors, apart from each other, that we'll start to see kids reintegrate into the fabric of society. it's so important for kids to interact with people as they learn about the world, and it seems equally important for adults to realize that they're a part of the same community as parents and children.

spjt 1y ago
I wonder how much there is an increased concern about injury, I have three kids and by the time I was their age I had spent more time in the emergency room than all three of them put together. I go to my kids' school from time to time and I don't think I've ever seen a kid in a cast.

bartread 1y ago

We have kids of various ages playing outside all the time when the weather is good and, yes, they are loud. At least, sometimes they're loud, but they aren't always, and you get used to it. I think it's good for kids to get outside. So generally it's not an issue and we just sort of tune it out and get on with our days but there is this one kid who only communicates by screaming at the top of their lungs at very high pitch constantly all day. Literally morning til night. That gets pretty annoying although, fortunately, the particular kid is not always around. If I knew who the parents were I'd probably have had a polite word with them already because it's just so unnecessary even by the standards of excited and energetic children.

dustbunny 1y ago
I recommend you not comment on this kids screaming. These parents might be extremely self conscious of their kids screaming. They might have constant anxiety about it. Your "polite" word could hurt far more than you imagine, and I doubt the screaming is something fixable with a little elbow grease from the parents.
- drukenemo 1y ago
  Are you serious about this advice? Parents cannot be politely approached by a neighbor, because their kids, who they chose to have, are disturbing others regularly?
  - bartread 1y ago
    Yeah, I mean, I didn't type it out longform, but step 1 is obviously to find out what's going on. There might be some very strong underlying cause for the behaviour that means it's going to be difficult or impossible to change... but you can't find that out if you don't talk to the parents. Knowledge promotes understanding, etc.
  - dustbunny 1y ago
    Yeah I'm serious. I tread carefully giving parenting advice to even my best friends. It's a hugely sensitive topic.

petercooper 1y ago

For years our neighborhood had an ice cream truck or two turn up a few days a week during summer, which we used to enjoy. This year, not a single one. I saw one of the trucks at a school fete and asked about it. The guy said one person had complained about the noise so the local council banned them after 7pm! With most of their sales falling between 6-9pm, they decided it wasn't worth it for one hour and moved on to other local towns. So not exactly "kids", but I think banning the normal, everyday noises involved in a local culture, whether that's church bells, kids playing football, carol singers, or ice cream trucks, is a slippery slope to nowhere positive.

taylorlapeyre 1y ago
I agree, but with a caveat about ice cream trucks specifically. If they park in one spot and play the same jingle very loudly for hours on end (say, three to four hours in one location outside of your home), it is in fact insanely maddening.
- johnthedebs 1y ago
  I may be more sound sensitive than most, but if I could hear it loudly for even 5-10 minutes I'd be annoyed. 3-4 hours? While I'm at home? Absolutely no way; I'd complain too.
  - petercooper 1y ago
    In the UK stationary ice cream trucks don't play music, only those travelling around, so you hear it for a couple of minutes at most as it winds around the neighborhood. I'd also be complaining if it was going on for hours :-)
- masfuerte 1y ago
  The UK has rules about this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-on-noise-from-ice-cream-van-chimes https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/code-of-practice-... Among other things, playing the jingle in the same place repeatedly is prohibited.

voxleone 1y ago

I'm noticing a reversal of social deference: -Then: Older generations had the cultural authority, and children were expected to conform. -Now: There’s increasing tolerance—and even privilege—granted to children (and parents), sometimes at the expense of quiet, order, or adult comfort. Hypothesis: This shift reflects a society aware of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity.

kreco 1y ago
Sometimes there are properties about generations that get carried "alternatively" as cycles. The generation that got too much authority will give the next generation more space (louder generation). Then the loud generation will create louder generation and authority will come back, etc. It's just an example and I don't think the loudness is part of those properties but the abstract mechanism has been observed along few generation (I think this mechanism had a proper name but I cannot find it again).
- junga 1y ago
  > (I think this mechanism had a proper name but I cannot find it again). Are you referring to the Strauss–Howe generational theory? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theo...
marssaxman 1y ago
I think it is quite the opposite: what is novel is that this has come before the court at all. Nobody would have dreamed of expecting children to stay inside and be quiet all day during my childhood, nor that of my parents, nor their parents; rather, we were often made to go play outside.
thefz 1y ago
> This shift reflects a society aware of its declining birthrate, where children are becoming scarcer and more symbolically valuable, so institutions (like courts) may reflexively protect or favor youth-centered activity. Pretty sure no one is valuing kids more because they are "scarce".

pizzafeelsright 1y ago

Kids are mildly annoying but generally there's a time and a place. I have kids. I love a loud house with quiet time. Loud children above age 2ish in the movie theater or restaurant are to be behaved because of the proximity of others. Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk

timcobb 1y ago
This. My child can shriek at what really feels like ear-piercing frequencies and decibels.
- pizzafeelsright 1y ago
  Thankfully boys grow out of it but girls can hit that frequency that cuts the skin. The general rule is no screaming without a good reason. As for those without parenting experience there isn't anything you can do short of killing the infant to get it quiet. They go from struggling to inconsolable which is literally a place where they have to exhaust themselves before they calm down. If the parent could quiet the kid they would. I've experienced it a few times and despite all my experience and skills the child couldn't be soothed until tired enough to respond positively. In most cases it's less than 90 minutes unless there's a physical reason. Then it can be 8 hours. Bless the parents with children with damaged biology.
Neywiny 1y ago
One of my favorite stories is a flight with a mom and a few kids. Her oldest started shrieking at some point, likely due to the air pressure change. The mom said something like (calmly) "there's nothing anymore can do about it, so what do you want to happen?" And the kid shut up
IanCal 1y ago
> Babies on airplanes get a pass because iykyk I think broadly if you’re doing something you just need to do, then a kid being a kid (particularly babies) is fine. Even if it’s annoying, that’s just life. Beyond that you need to pick your place - I’m happy taking my young kids to dinner where there’s other kids and noise, I’d not take them to a quiet tasting menu place. Having said that, someone with an upset baby is probably having a worse time than I am and I can usually just sympathise, sometimes things are more out of someone’s control than you think.

gedy 1y ago

We seem less tolerant of kids these days, and more tolerant of dogs.

c22 1y ago
The other day an unleashed dog ran into my yard from the adjacent park and the woman escorting it informed me that I should build a fence!
- gedy 1y ago
  Yeah I like dogs, but growing up we treated them as a home and backyard pet only, having them run around in neighborhood or bringing to stores or restaurants(!) would have been unthinkable. I really don't get it.
  - c22 1y ago
    I didn't even have a problem with the dog being there. The lady was put out that she had to fight through some brambles to come over and retrieve it.

Aurornis 1y ago

I always have a hard time interpreting these stories. Is this really a trend? Or is it an example of someone collecting anecdotes from all around the world and presenting it as a trend? The internet makes it easier than ever to search for anecdotes around the world that support an idea, but a collection of global anecdotes does not indicate a trend. There are billions of people in the world and some of them are cranky and intolerant. If we're sharing anecdotes: I've had nothing but positive responses to my kids playing, even loudly. Obviously I'm not taking them to a library, school, or other dedicated quiet place to play, but the overwhelming majority of people in my area smile and laugh when they see kids playing, loudly or not.

foxglacier 1y ago
If it was real, they author would have shown some data to support that. So yea, it's just random anecdotes to make it look like there's something for people to be outraged about.
klank 1y ago
I'll add to it. My neighbor and I were just recently chitchatting how we love the new family that moved into the neighborhood a few years ago. We love the vibe and color their family adds and it's a large part because they're very visible and audible. General "kid mayhem" happening all over their yard. It often spills into the street. More than once I have to slow down and wait for the children wailing on their friends with boxing gloves to clear out of the street so I can drive through. It's wonderful. They're close to the entrance of our neighborhood too, which means everybody coming through there is primed to go slow and watch out for kids. It has such a great, calming effect on the overall neighborhood.
aidenn0 1y ago
People complaining about being disturbed by kids playing is at least as old as I am, and probably has existed since about 5 minutes after the first kid was born.

eggsandbeer 1y ago

No.

BrenBarn 1y ago

Kids playing is great, but I think this article glosses over some important wrinkles. A big one I see is that some parents seem incapable of distinguishing between "there are times when it is okay for my child to play noisily" and "my child's activities and/or noise level should never be restricted". Playing in a park is great --- that's what parks are for! Playing in your yard, or an apartment courtyard or the like, great. Playing on the sidewalk is fine. . . but remember that sidewalks are also for people to walk on, so if someone comes by the kid needs to realize that they should let them pass. But then we have parents who come into stores and let their kids grab things from shelves and play with them in the middle of the floor, and so on. Part of accepting and embracing play is understanding that not every moment is playtime, and that even within playtime there can be subcategories with different expectations. This article frames it in terms of noise, but in my experience a lot of the issues people have with noise are really issues about parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids, and teach their kids that behavior --- not just noise, but everything --- has to be adjusted for different situations.

pier25 1y ago
> parents not understanding how to set boundaries for their kids Absolutely. Kids being loud when playing football or at the beach is fine and even expected. Letting your kids run around the theater is not fine. You're ruining the experience for everyone.
arp242 1y ago
I agree there are some kids and parents who are just unreasonably and/or obnoxious loud in unreasonable moments; I don't think anyone really denies this. I've seen kids race on scooters in supermarkets while the parents were right there. Ugh. But at least some of these complains have been about really quite reasonable and limited noise levels. For example at my last apartment some kids played out in the courtyard during summer. It really wasn't that often or all that loud. There were a few people who complained as if the kids were out of control, but that wasn't the case at all.

airstrike 1y ago

There's a difference between being loud in public vs privately. As a kid, I was never allowed to be loud in a restaurant, unless it was a restaurant for kids—and even then up to a reasonable limit

drukenemo 1y ago
That’s a reasonable argument. But in this day and age there are no shades of grey.
- airstrike 1y ago
  The attention economy is killing society. Current social media feed algorithms are incredibly harmful. This isn't a new topic but ironically it is not given the attention it urgently requires.

Apreche 1y ago

Yes, go ahead. Be loud and play outside. But I’m pretty sure I have misophonia, so just be loud somewhere not near me.

npteljes 1y ago
I feel the same and I wish to have your level of eloquence the next time I'm expressing this.

guywithahat 1y ago

[flagged]

loco5niner 1y ago
You haven't met my native white children apparently
wizzwizz4 1y ago
There are native white populations in the US? And just when I thought I understood how Americans defined the category "white"…
- sophacles 1y ago
  American white supremacists can't figure out a definition of "white". I doubt anyone will ever get a handle on it. (e.g. do you include Italians? Jewish people? What about Turks or Armenians? Eastern Europeans? There's all sorts of disagreements about what "white" is in the most racist groups out there... because the whole concept is fucking stupid).
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
That sounds very interesting. Would you mind pointing me to some documented measurements that suggest this so that I can study them?

rock_artist 1y ago

As we’re in tech, loud or noise are very implicit and can really range. Reading this on Amsterdam, I know many others countries where there won’t be such a discussion at all about a soccer field outside a building. I come from a place where children and the population is noisy due to many factors. every time we went as family on a holiday (With dutch people as an example), I saw my children become less and less vocal only to become loud as they were once we were back home. Recently, we’ve relocated to Spain. It’s only a few months but still, I thought my children would get become less noisy similar to what we saw on holidays after a while… But nothing changed, and also hearing other children here, they’re in the same “noisy” levels as my kids. So there’s also a cultural aspect that needs to be considered about what is loud or how children are expected to behave, add immigration to that and cultural differences and you got so many factors.

tetha 1y ago

Hm. I think I am encountering cultural differences here, again. Personally, I have a point from my grandma in my head: "If your ears are ringing from happy, playing children, that's future in your ears. That's good". For sure, within reason, but a huge ruckus in the shared backyard or playground between 08:00 or 20:00 due to kids? That's what kids to. I rather get worried if they abruptly stop, or start yelling differently. I don't even have kids, but I'll still take a look wether a kid of a neighbour mananged to add a temporary third joint to their arm, is bleeding a worrying amount or something like that.

EGreg 1y ago

I was just writing two days ago about how ADHD is overdiagnosed and our system is just set up to try to coerce kids to be convenient for the system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44490274 There I put forward some proposals at the end

burnt-resistor 1y ago
I have under-diagnosed ADHD because my father was a Fox News disciple, science-hating, arrogant bigot who believed ADHD was a "conspiracy" of anti-male leftists.
- EGreg 1y ago
  I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people. But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically. As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term is thrown around.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    > I don't know about your particular situation, but I'm speaking systemically, and about large trends and socio-economic realities that affect people. You're minimizing and trivializing my situation and opinion as invalid. > But having said that, I'd be very interested to hear what you think the consequences of the under-diagnosis were, realistically. Well, being called "weird" and routinely dissed and dismissed as some sort of innate character flaw. > As far as anti-science, I think people on the left and right of the political spectrum are anti-science, at least to the same degree that term is thrown around. I'm not familiar with many or hardly anyone (except crazies) on the left being anti-science. What's your evidence for this?

mensetmanusman 1y ago

Free noise cancelling airpods for all. I don’t hear anything anymore.

burnt-resistor 1y ago
WHAT!? ;)

YorickPeterse 1y ago

There's kids being noisy, which in itself isn't much of a problem, and then there's _Dutch kids_ being noisy, with the latter sounding more like a bunch of roosters at a heavy metal concert.

drukenemo 1y ago
That’s my experience too. I wonder why. Too much freedom given to the kids here?

christkv 1y ago

Thankfully this is not a problem in Spain (I think this is either a southern European thing or Spanish thing). Kids share adult spaces all the time being it restaurants, bar, plazas or other spaces. I would not trade this for the world. In general the country is a very welcoming one for children in public spaces including active children.

theultdev 1y ago

I don't really see any need to take parental advice from a blog. Not going to give advice either as we all have our own methods, but it's more or less the opposite of what this person is saying. Doesn't mean letting them sit mindlessly in front of screens, but screen time is okay as long as they are creating, not consuming. That has nothing to do with their noise levels though. There's a time and place. Outside with friends, yeah sure be loud within reason. In public around strangers? You better shut the hell up.

strathmeyer 1y ago

Our dorm was next to a playground in college. It was impossible to sleep in. They were literally just screaming at the top of their lungs for hours at a time. I guess it's different when it's someone else's day you're ruining.

dpifke 1y ago

A few months back, my wife and I had our windows open and heard some neighbors' kids playing drums and guitar in their garage. They were TERRIBLE. We're sad we haven't heard them again recently. I was hoping to follow along as they got better.

sarchertech 1y ago

I have 2 young kids, but I also had my first when I was 38 so I have a lot of experience as an adult with no kids. I’ve only ever been seriously annoyed by loud kids a handful of times in my entire life. Each time it was always travel sports teams at hotels. And I’m the kind of person who gets really annoyed at loud sounds like leaf blowers, and loud car stereos. Kids can be noisy, but I have never had dinner “ruined” by an uncontrolled kid. I’ve never had a movie ruined by loud kids (I have had movies nearly ruined by loud adults and older teenagers). I’ve never been seated near a baby crying on a plane that I couldn’t tune out—especially with headphones (that is until I flew with my own baby on a plane—can’t tune that out because you’re just desperate to get him to stop so you don’t annoy anyone else). I think people are just being overly sensitive.

drukenemo 1y ago
Your tolerance to noise levels says nothing about other people’s tolerance for it. Do not use your baseline to determine what is normal and what is not when it comes to sensorial experiences.

dekhn 1y ago

I live across the street from an elementary school and during recess it gets quite noisy. I don't particularly mind, with one big exception: some kids scream a lot. I normally associate that screaming sound with "there is an emergency, check for trouble", but it's just kids playing (and I hear the teachers telling them to stop). Even during the off season, there is noise; for example, the people doing construction work sometimes trip the fire alarm, which rings for hours because the site staff isn't around. I'd love to explain the idea of alarm fatigue, but from experience, people just think you're a jerk if you say "You should stop that alarm from turning on when there isn't a fire, because I will stop paying attention"

msds 1y ago

Ok but my neighborhood children have started using electric leaf blowers as jet propulsion on skateboards. I have insisted they use hearing protection, but the rest of us are shit out of luck…

thefz 1y ago

The issue I see is not with kids themselves but rather the parents, dumping them anywhere with no supervision because they need to "disconnect" doomscrolling on instagram. I played in the courtyard with neighboring kids all my infancy and as soon as the volume raised above a certain level, we were scolded immediately