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The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm trying to say is that these two do not represent the German political landscape at all. They also, while on different ends of the left-right-spectrum, both only represent the pro-Russian minority of the German political landscape. This is not a debate happening in Germany right now and no other party has expressed support of any position.

FpUser 1y ago
So repatriating your own property is now pro-Russian propaganda? Unless country is defenseless what is wrong with keeping one's things at one's place
- littlestymaar 1y ago
  Both things can be true at once: the politicians talking can have legitimates arguments while being part of pro-Russian parties that don't have power in Germany and do not represent the German government opinion.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    Well then the arguments should be considered on their merits without bringing political BS. Otherwise following the logic if Afd tells Merz not to jump from that bridge he should do the opposite.
    - littlestymaar 1y ago
      It's not the argument made in the top level post, they are just saying “What I'm trying to say is that these two do not represent the German political landscape at all. […] This is not a debate happening in Germany right now and no other party has expressed support of any position.” Maybe there should be a real debate on that topic, or maybe Germany should even pursue such a repatriation of their gold reserves, but as a matter of fact there's no such debate or plan besides fringes parties, that's it.
- pydry 1y ago
  In general America considers non puppets to be puppets of another country and considers only its own puppets to be truly "free". This is as true in the middle east, europe, africa, south america or asia.
- vincnetas 1y ago
  Usually russian propoganda is anything that stirs internal conflict. This does not mean that any internal conflict is russia propoganda, but they are very quick to try amplify any conflicts. This is KGB strategy of active measures (subversion). Read more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
  - FpUser 1y ago
    So the logical conclusion would be that if anyone tries to criticize their government the higher up will just declare it pro-Russian and make person shut-up? How fucking convenient. Maybe it is better to stop looking for Putin under one's bed and take responsibility for own fuckups.
- dubbel 1y ago
  We are talking about national gold reserves, not some household items. They exist for the reason to liquidate them in case of national emergencies/severe economic crises. It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs. That could be New York and London, or maybe even Shanghai, if China wasn't a systemic rival. Storing all of them at "one's place" is a larger risk than splitting it up and storing them in several places, each with a different risk profile.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    >"It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs" Does that happen often (gold sale)?
    - holowoodman 1y ago
      every other world war or so...
      - FpUser 1y ago
        Well, if WWIII starts they will not be cashing in their gold no matter where it is kept and world financial capitals would be the last places to survive strikes.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  From World War II, the problem with keeping it at your own place was that, if someone overruns your country, your government-in-exile may be able to keep control of gold that is outside your country. Gold that is inside your country, however, is controlled by the invader. (And may be looted by them. Even if you later get your country back, the gold may be gone.) That exposes you to the risk of the country holding it. But for much of recent history, the US was seen as a lesser risk than a Russian invasion. Whether that is still the way the risks balance... I think we each may hold our own opinion on that.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    >"...But for much of recent history, the US was seen as a lesser risk than a Russian invasion. Whether that is still the way the risks balance..." Can't tell about the past where the risks of war with USSR were valid, but I think Russia invading Germany or Italy in the future is pure BS.
    - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
      Well, influential people (that is, people fairly close to Putin) in Russia are saying that, after Ukraine, Russia will take Poland. Yeah, that's not Germany, still less Italy. But it's much closer to Germany than I would be comfortable with if I were German... [Edit: First example I could find: https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470 https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine... I believe that Medvedev also said similar things, but I can't immediately find a link.]
      - abyssin 1y ago
        Could you provide links for these declarations?
      - FpUser 1y ago
        Duma does not make any major decisions. They just rubber stamp what Putin tells them to. Medvedev is Putin's toy. Listening to them is the same as to some western lunatics who while formally being part government spit some bullshit like "the world flat."
- 52-6F-62 1y ago
  In this case, if you’re American. It signals a loss of trust in them which is an impossible absurdity if your a priori is that America is the eternal good and only future for us all. Can’t have that.
  - hiergiltdiestfu 1y ago
    After skimming through the comments derailed into AfD/BSW discussions, I'm happy to find this comment, because as a non-extremist German, this is the reason I want the German gold out of the USA. Right now, it makes as much sense as storing the gold in North Korea. It will just be held hostage or stolen by the local dictator.
fanwood 1y ago
It's still a very good idea given the US instability and complete lack of trust in this administration
- cempaka 1y ago
  It's not just this administration, it's been essentially open season for fraud in the U.S. financial system ever since 2008. If you're a hoi polloi dentist who makes $100,000 trading options off of some insider info then yes, there are SEC cops on the beat who will come after you. Otherwise, you can pretty much do whatever you want until & unless a whole lot of people lose money, at which point it's too late.
parthdesai 1y ago
Is far-left really pro-Russia or just anti-US? Not everyone that is anti-US (which a lot of people with common sense would be tbf) is pro-Russia
- ljf 1y ago
  My only knowledge of them is a cursory Wikipedia search, but yes it appears they are pro-Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahra_Wagenknecht_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahra_Wagenknecht_Alliance
- mindjiver 1y ago
  We are talking about a splinter party (BSW) from the main left party (Die Linke) which is a kind of anti-woke- and anti-immigration-party that spouts basically the normal Kremlin propaganda lines about Ukraine. There is of course anti-US sentiment there since is secondary to their main issue, peace at any cost so that Germany can get cheaper energy again. Note that I'm not a German national but I live in Germany (former DDR / East) since 9 years.
  - parthdesai 1y ago
    Ah fair enough, thanks for the info
  - mensetmanusman 1y ago
    Also having lived in Dresden and speaking some German, I recognize the German grammar affecting your last sentence there. If it’s of interest, a native English speaker would say something like “but I have lived in Germany for nine years” I know I appreciated it when the Germans would correct my German grammar :)
    - mindjiver 1y ago
      Funny, since German is my third language but I guess it creeps into my second and first languages as well.
- slightwinder 1y ago
jamil7 1y ago
I thought Wagenknecht had somewhat distanced herself from pro-kremlin positions she and parts of Die Linke previously held? She's still pretty staunchly anti-NATO, though. I think her German-nationalist positions kind of overlap with positions that benefit Russia like resuming gas supplies to drop energy prices and heating costs.
- eqvinox 1y ago
  Other way around, Wagenknecht is the one who didn't distance herself from the Kremlin and forked off her own party, BSW, which finally enabled Die Linke to get at least some distance from the Kremlin. (This schism was fracturing that party so hard…)
  - holowoodman 1y ago
    But only a little nominal distance in a few interviews. Die Linke is still the official successor of the SED, which was the GDRs single allowed communist party. And this shows in membership and positions, which are 95% true to Moscow.
    - p2detar 1y ago
      Afaik, Die Linke still have anti-NATO stance in their program and call for it to dissolve and a new collective defense pact be created with Russia in it, which was an eyeroll to me, given the war, cyber attacks and everything. Edit: I last read some of that program in 2024, so not sure what’s their stance lately on this.
      - eqvinox 1y ago
        What you're probably referring to is still in there, except they're not asking for a new defense pact with Russia in it, they're asking for a security system (with Russia in it). (page 89) On the same page, they're also asking for the UN to be improved, specifically noting the security council. That's directly to the detriment of its permanent members, including… Russia. P.S.: I profit monetarily from NATO, yet still think it's broken, but for reasons diametrically opposite to Die Linke: I think the US won't deliver as NATO member. It doesn't matter as long as US interests are the same as NATOs, but, … if Russia attacks the Baltics? I'm not gonna hold my breath for US NATO troops.
mdavid626 1y ago
This is a very skewed view of the political landscape. Would be nice to forget this pro/anti Russia narrative. Please also note that AfD has become the strongest party in Germany. Sure, firewalled, but question is, for how long.
- kadrian12 1y ago
  Not true. CDU/CSU was the strongest party in the last election. Stick to the facts, please.
  - mdavid626 1y ago
    Yes, exactly, stick to the facts! Read my comment again, I haven’t said anything about the last election. If you check the latest polls, AfD surpassed CDU (not the union CDU/CSU!).
- bc569a80a344f9c 1y ago
  > Please also note that AfD has become the strongest party in Germany It has not. They got 20% in the last Bundestag election, compared to 28.4% for CDU. Unless they get significantly stronger it seems very unlikely that anyone wants to be in a coalition with them on the short or medium horizon.
  - sharpshadow 1y ago
    In the latest polls they surpassed the CDU. It was the moment when Merz announced 1 Trillion money rain after campaign to not make new debts.
    - eqvinox 1y ago
      Polls != 'strongest' party. You need actual power for that latter label. Which is not far off for the AfD, but really not there right now. If/when the coalition starts infighting, then…
      - 1y ago
bboygravity 1y ago
That's all fine and dandy, but also IMO it's entirely possible that the US cannot deliver their gold if these countries (and/or others) wanted it back. Just look at what happened when Venezuela wanted their gold back. It took ages and that was a relatively tiny amount. It's extremely naive for many EU countries to still believe that they "have" "their" gold stored in the US. And even more naive to not try and get it back. The entire US banking and financial system relies on NOT delivering or owning the underlying (fractional reserve banking, federal reserve printing money out of thin air, failures to deliver every single day on everything from stocks to government bonds, failing CDS'es and so on).
- stogot 1y ago
  “Sell” it to a third country (Switzerland) who provides a certificate of deposit in a vault?
- infecto 1y ago
  It’s extremely naive to think the Federal Reserve has lent out the gold and it no longer exists. It’s up there with insider job 9/11 conspiracies. Modern banking and finance, not just in the US, relies on fractional reserves. This is not a movie.
  - greenavocado 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - infecto 1y ago
      Are you ok? Fort Knox has nothing to do with the federal reserve.
      - bboygravity 1y ago
        It has everything to do with the topic this thread is about though.
nforgerit 1y ago
This is a very superficial perspective. Disclaimer: I disdain both BSW and Afd. You're basically falling into "the populist trap" in which they take a fact or something true and wrap it with a lot of BS and conspiracy theories. If you disregard the true core "just because it's from the wrong party" you give them political lever. We've seen that playbook working out for 10+ years. De Masi did a great job as a financial expert in a parliamentary group, highly regarded by people over the whole political spectrum. I don't understand why he joined BSW but that doesn't weaken his point here. And since we're already publicly discussing Trump blackmailing us with decommissioning US IT-Services without further notice, it is exactly right to talk about assets like gold being stored on US soil.
- timcobb 1y ago
  > "just because it's from the wrong party" Extremists should never be ignored, especially in unstable times, but mentioning that these people are currently not in power and aren't even in the parliament is good context.
regularization 1y ago
You're correct this does not matter this year. But in the 2013 German election, AFD got no seats, and now it has the second most seats. BSW was not around in the 2021 election, they got about 5% of the vote but Die Linke managed not to lose their vote to BSW. BSW probably picked up voters who would have gone to either AFD or Die Linke (kind of like voters in the early 1930s who switched between the KPD and NSDAP). This is the future of European, and US elections. Undermining Russia is important to the rulers of Europe and the US, but not as much to workers and voters. You can see the sea change with Trump in office and socialist candidates like Bernie, who is getting huge crowds in Idaho and Oklahoma, or AOC and Zohran in New York. Young people can't afford houses, even programmers are having trouble since the 2022 layoffs - can you imagine the Amazin RTO in Seattle mandate would be possible in 2021? Wealth inequality leads to disruption, and political parties are made to appeal to the masses - either fascist or socialist. The political tendencies arising are no anomaly.
- gruez 1y ago
  > You can see the sea change with Trump in office and socialist candidates like Bernie, who is getting huge crowds in Idaho and Oklahoma, or AOC and Zohran in New York. I can see how Trump being in office is indisputable sign that populists are getting popular, but what does "huge crowds" cash out to? "crowds" should be as little as 1000 people. Combine that with to urban-rural and education polarization, and it doesn't seem too hard to get a 1000 college educated city dwellers to show up to a rally in Idaho.
- slightwinder 1y ago
  > But in the 2013 German election, AFD got no seats They were founded in 2013 and missed the seat by just 0.3%. > BSW probably picked up voters who would have gone to either AFD AFD-Voters were the lowest group they grew from[1]. They mostly harvest from the political left, but also some (probably non-extrem?) right voters. [1] https://www.tagesschau.de/wahl/archiv/2025-02-23-BT-DE/analyse-wanderung.shtml https://www.tagesschau.de/wahl/archiv/2025-02-23-BT-DE/analy...
Aldipower 1y ago
As it is correct, that they are virtually not in power, framing them as pro-russia is some sort of false flag. Just because they are not anti-russia, like every other party, does not automatically mean that they are pro-russia. AfD and BSW together got more then 25% of all votes. So, you are correct, they virtually are not in power, but they have some real power just by being there. This HN post here is the best example for this mechanism.
- razemio 1y ago
  I think anti-nato, anti eu, pro russian gas and anti urkraine war aid qualify as pro russian. I get your point, but I think you are wrong? Just read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement AfD has SO many connections to the Kremel. At least a big part of AfD is obiously influenced by russian agenda. BSW is a different topic. They might just align with many points russia likes, but you can not be sure either. BSW or AfD with power in the Bundestag would be russias wet dream in regards to german politics.
  - scythe 1y ago
    How many levels of "appear to" are we supposed to tolerate in order to minimize the perspective here? Here's where we started: >The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to [...] So the person we don't like seems like they might be affiliated with a political party which seems like it's pro-Russia — this is unreasonably contrived when you zoom out and look at the whole argument.
    - b1ngus 1y ago
      [dead]
    - InitialLastName 1y ago
      I can't access the article, but "appear to" could also apply to the "all", i.e. "I may have missed a person, but all the people I checked are...".
  - 1y ago
throw0101b 1y ago
> […] * BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia).* An example of: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory ?
hannob 1y ago
> The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) Picturing BSW as far-left, while not uncommon, strikes me always as very strange. While it's a bit unclear where to put them with their wild mixture of populism, the only reason they are by some seen as leftwing is because of the history of their founder. She was previously a member of the left party, but for many years, even while she still was a member of that party, has not held any views that could count as far-left. The only reason some still put her in the far-left camp is that she was, looooong ago, a member of the communist platform in the PDS, the predecessor of the left party in Germany.
- tonyedgecombe 1y ago
  The far left don’t look much different from the far right.
- badestrand 1y ago
  The BSW is indeed an interesting mix because they are conservative-liberal-left while usually leftist parties are progressive and authoritarian-leaning instead. Examples for the BSW's left politics are * higher taxes for the rich * higher taxes for large and international companies * take on new debt to finance stuff * more state-aided social housing.
paganel 1y ago
[flagged]
- taikahessu 1y ago
  EU might certainly not be perfect, but as of yet, we don't shoot our own people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
  - paganel 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - NoOn3 1y ago
    There are a lot of inconsistencies, and it looks very much like it's rigged. Russia simply had no reason to do such a thing.
mslansn 1y ago
AfD represents the political landscape, even if they (yet) have no power because other parties have chosen to marginalise them whilst still can. As long as you have votes, there are people behind you. Isn’t that democracy?
- Paradigma11 1y ago
  The AfD got 21% last elections.
LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
The thoughts about bringing it back home are nothing new, though. And not limited to BSW/AFD at all. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven#Diskussion_um_die_Lagerung_im_Ausland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven#Diskussi... for some history. Or some articles from around 10/2012: https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/warum-das-deutsche-gold-im-ausland-bleibt-streit-ums-bundes-gold_id_2536430.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/warum-das-deutsche-gold-i... https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-soll-den-ganzen-goldschatz-heimholen-auslandsreserven_id_2276149.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-soll-den-ganze... https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-enthuellt-so-viel-gold-lagert-in-den-usa-streit-um-den-deutschen-goldschatz_id_2277846.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-enthuellt-so-v... (yooze trännzläyshun!1!!)
raymond_goo 1y ago
If 23% do not represent the German political landscape at all, I don't know what does...

FpUser 1y ago

So repatriating your own property is now pro-Russian propaganda? Unless country is defenseless what is wrong with keeping one's things at one's place

littlestymaar 1y ago
Both things can be true at once: the politicians talking can have legitimates arguments while being part of pro-Russian parties that don't have power in Germany and do not represent the German government opinion.
- FpUser 1y ago
  Well then the arguments should be considered on their merits without bringing political BS. Otherwise following the logic if Afd tells Merz not to jump from that bridge he should do the opposite.
  - littlestymaar 1y ago
    It's not the argument made in the top level post, they are just saying “What I'm trying to say is that these two do not represent the German political landscape at all. […] This is not a debate happening in Germany right now and no other party has expressed support of any position.” Maybe there should be a real debate on that topic, or maybe Germany should even pursue such a repatriation of their gold reserves, but as a matter of fact there's no such debate or plan besides fringes parties, that's it.
pydry 1y ago
In general America considers non puppets to be puppets of another country and considers only its own puppets to be truly "free". This is as true in the middle east, europe, africa, south america or asia.
vincnetas 1y ago
Usually russian propoganda is anything that stirs internal conflict. This does not mean that any internal conflict is russia propoganda, but they are very quick to try amplify any conflicts. This is KGB strategy of active measures (subversion). Read more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
- FpUser 1y ago
  So the logical conclusion would be that if anyone tries to criticize their government the higher up will just declare it pro-Russian and make person shut-up? How fucking convenient. Maybe it is better to stop looking for Putin under one's bed and take responsibility for own fuckups.
dubbel 1y ago
We are talking about national gold reserves, not some household items. They exist for the reason to liquidate them in case of national emergencies/severe economic crises. It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs. That could be New York and London, or maybe even Shanghai, if China wasn't a systemic rival. Storing all of them at "one's place" is a larger risk than splitting it up and storing them in several places, each with a different risk profile.
- FpUser 1y ago
  >"It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs" Does that happen often (gold sale)?
  - holowoodman 1y ago
    every other world war or so...
    - FpUser 1y ago
      Well, if WWIII starts they will not be cashing in their gold no matter where it is kept and world financial capitals would be the last places to survive strikes.
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
From World War II, the problem with keeping it at your own place was that, if someone overruns your country, your government-in-exile may be able to keep control of gold that is outside your country. Gold that is inside your country, however, is controlled by the invader. (And may be looted by them. Even if you later get your country back, the gold may be gone.) That exposes you to the risk of the country holding it. But for much of recent history, the US was seen as a lesser risk than a Russian invasion. Whether that is still the way the risks balance... I think we each may hold our own opinion on that.
- FpUser 1y ago
  >"...But for much of recent history, the US was seen as a lesser risk than a Russian invasion. Whether that is still the way the risks balance..." Can't tell about the past where the risks of war with USSR were valid, but I think Russia invading Germany or Italy in the future is pure BS.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    Well, influential people (that is, people fairly close to Putin) in Russia are saying that, after Ukraine, Russia will take Poland. Yeah, that's not Germany, still less Italy. But it's much closer to Germany than I would be comfortable with if I were German... [Edit: First example I could find: https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470 https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine... I believe that Medvedev also said similar things, but I can't immediately find a link.]
    - abyssin 1y ago
      Could you provide links for these declarations?
    - FpUser 1y ago
      Duma does not make any major decisions. They just rubber stamp what Putin tells them to. Medvedev is Putin's toy. Listening to them is the same as to some western lunatics who while formally being part government spit some bullshit like "the world flat."
52-6F-62 1y ago
In this case, if you’re American. It signals a loss of trust in them which is an impossible absurdity if your a priori is that America is the eternal good and only future for us all. Can’t have that.
- hiergiltdiestfu 1y ago
  After skimming through the comments derailed into AfD/BSW discussions, I'm happy to find this comment, because as a non-extremist German, this is the reason I want the German gold out of the USA. Right now, it makes as much sense as storing the gold in North Korea. It will just be held hostage or stolen by the local dictator.

fanwood 1y ago

It's still a very good idea given the US instability and complete lack of trust in this administration

cempaka 1y ago
It's not just this administration, it's been essentially open season for fraud in the U.S. financial system ever since 2008. If you're a hoi polloi dentist who makes $100,000 trading options off of some insider info then yes, there are SEC cops on the beat who will come after you. Otherwise, you can pretty much do whatever you want until & unless a whole lot of people lose money, at which point it's too late.

parthdesai 1y ago

Is far-left really pro-Russia or just anti-US? Not everyone that is anti-US (which a lot of people with common sense would be tbf) is pro-Russia

ljf 1y ago
My only knowledge of them is a cursory Wikipedia search, but yes it appears they are pro-Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahra_Wagenknecht_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahra_Wagenknecht_Alliance
mindjiver 1y ago
We are talking about a splinter party (BSW) from the main left party (Die Linke) which is a kind of anti-woke- and anti-immigration-party that spouts basically the normal Kremlin propaganda lines about Ukraine. There is of course anti-US sentiment there since is secondary to their main issue, peace at any cost so that Germany can get cheaper energy again. Note that I'm not a German national but I live in Germany (former DDR / East) since 9 years.
- parthdesai 1y ago
  Ah fair enough, thanks for the info
- mensetmanusman 1y ago
  Also having lived in Dresden and speaking some German, I recognize the German grammar affecting your last sentence there. If it’s of interest, a native English speaker would say something like “but I have lived in Germany for nine years” I know I appreciated it when the Germans would correct my German grammar :)
  - mindjiver 1y ago
    Funny, since German is my third language but I guess it creeps into my second and first languages as well.
slightwinder 1y ago

jamil7 1y ago

I thought Wagenknecht had somewhat distanced herself from pro-kremlin positions she and parts of Die Linke previously held? She's still pretty staunchly anti-NATO, though. I think her German-nationalist positions kind of overlap with positions that benefit Russia like resuming gas supplies to drop energy prices and heating costs.

eqvinox 1y ago
Other way around, Wagenknecht is the one who didn't distance herself from the Kremlin and forked off her own party, BSW, which finally enabled Die Linke to get at least some distance from the Kremlin. (This schism was fracturing that party so hard…)
- holowoodman 1y ago
  But only a little nominal distance in a few interviews. Die Linke is still the official successor of the SED, which was the GDRs single allowed communist party. And this shows in membership and positions, which are 95% true to Moscow.
  - p2detar 1y ago
    Afaik, Die Linke still have anti-NATO stance in their program and call for it to dissolve and a new collective defense pact be created with Russia in it, which was an eyeroll to me, given the war, cyber attacks and everything. Edit: I last read some of that program in 2024, so not sure what’s their stance lately on this.
    - eqvinox 1y ago
      What you're probably referring to is still in there, except they're not asking for a new defense pact with Russia in it, they're asking for a security system (with Russia in it). (page 89) On the same page, they're also asking for the UN to be improved, specifically noting the security council. That's directly to the detriment of its permanent members, including… Russia. P.S.: I profit monetarily from NATO, yet still think it's broken, but for reasons diametrically opposite to Die Linke: I think the US won't deliver as NATO member. It doesn't matter as long as US interests are the same as NATOs, but, … if Russia attacks the Baltics? I'm not gonna hold my breath for US NATO troops.

mdavid626 1y ago

This is a very skewed view of the political landscape. Would be nice to forget this pro/anti Russia narrative. Please also note that AfD has become the strongest party in Germany. Sure, firewalled, but question is, for how long.

kadrian12 1y ago
Not true. CDU/CSU was the strongest party in the last election. Stick to the facts, please.
- mdavid626 1y ago
  Yes, exactly, stick to the facts! Read my comment again, I haven’t said anything about the last election. If you check the latest polls, AfD surpassed CDU (not the union CDU/CSU!).
bc569a80a344f9c 1y ago
> Please also note that AfD has become the strongest party in Germany It has not. They got 20% in the last Bundestag election, compared to 28.4% for CDU. Unless they get significantly stronger it seems very unlikely that anyone wants to be in a coalition with them on the short or medium horizon.
- sharpshadow 1y ago
  In the latest polls they surpassed the CDU. It was the moment when Merz announced 1 Trillion money rain after campaign to not make new debts.
  - eqvinox 1y ago
    Polls != 'strongest' party. You need actual power for that latter label. Which is not far off for the AfD, but really not there right now. If/when the coalition starts infighting, then…
    - 1y ago

bboygravity 1y ago

That's all fine and dandy, but also IMO it's entirely possible that the US cannot deliver their gold if these countries (and/or others) wanted it back. Just look at what happened when Venezuela wanted their gold back. It took ages and that was a relatively tiny amount. It's extremely naive for many EU countries to still believe that they "have" "their" gold stored in the US. And even more naive to not try and get it back. The entire US banking and financial system relies on NOT delivering or owning the underlying (fractional reserve banking, federal reserve printing money out of thin air, failures to deliver every single day on everything from stocks to government bonds, failing CDS'es and so on).

stogot 1y ago
“Sell” it to a third country (Switzerland) who provides a certificate of deposit in a vault?
infecto 1y ago
It’s extremely naive to think the Federal Reserve has lent out the gold and it no longer exists. It’s up there with insider job 9/11 conspiracies. Modern banking and finance, not just in the US, relies on fractional reserves. This is not a movie.
- greenavocado 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - infecto 1y ago
    Are you ok? Fort Knox has nothing to do with the federal reserve.
    - bboygravity 1y ago
      It has everything to do with the topic this thread is about though.

nforgerit 1y ago

This is a very superficial perspective. Disclaimer: I disdain both BSW and Afd. You're basically falling into "the populist trap" in which they take a fact or something true and wrap it with a lot of BS and conspiracy theories. If you disregard the true core "just because it's from the wrong party" you give them political lever. We've seen that playbook working out for 10+ years. De Masi did a great job as a financial expert in a parliamentary group, highly regarded by people over the whole political spectrum. I don't understand why he joined BSW but that doesn't weaken his point here. And since we're already publicly discussing Trump blackmailing us with decommissioning US IT-Services without further notice, it is exactly right to talk about assets like gold being stored on US soil.

timcobb 1y ago
> "just because it's from the wrong party" Extremists should never be ignored, especially in unstable times, but mentioning that these people are currently not in power and aren't even in the parliament is good context.

regularization 1y ago

You're correct this does not matter this year. But in the 2013 German election, AFD got no seats, and now it has the second most seats. BSW was not around in the 2021 election, they got about 5% of the vote but Die Linke managed not to lose their vote to BSW. BSW probably picked up voters who would have gone to either AFD or Die Linke (kind of like voters in the early 1930s who switched between the KPD and NSDAP). This is the future of European, and US elections. Undermining Russia is important to the rulers of Europe and the US, but not as much to workers and voters. You can see the sea change with Trump in office and socialist candidates like Bernie, who is getting huge crowds in Idaho and Oklahoma, or AOC and Zohran in New York. Young people can't afford houses, even programmers are having trouble since the 2022 layoffs - can you imagine the Amazin RTO in Seattle mandate would be possible in 2021? Wealth inequality leads to disruption, and political parties are made to appeal to the masses - either fascist or socialist. The political tendencies arising are no anomaly.

gruez 1y ago
> You can see the sea change with Trump in office and socialist candidates like Bernie, who is getting huge crowds in Idaho and Oklahoma, or AOC and Zohran in New York. I can see how Trump being in office is indisputable sign that populists are getting popular, but what does "huge crowds" cash out to? "crowds" should be as little as 1000 people. Combine that with to urban-rural and education polarization, and it doesn't seem too hard to get a 1000 college educated city dwellers to show up to a rally in Idaho.
slightwinder 1y ago
> But in the 2013 German election, AFD got no seats They were founded in 2013 and missed the seat by just 0.3%. > BSW probably picked up voters who would have gone to either AFD AFD-Voters were the lowest group they grew from[1]. They mostly harvest from the political left, but also some (probably non-extrem?) right voters. [1] https://www.tagesschau.de/wahl/archiv/2025-02-23-BT-DE/analyse-wanderung.shtml https://www.tagesschau.de/wahl/archiv/2025-02-23-BT-DE/analy...

Aldipower 1y ago

As it is correct, that they are virtually not in power, framing them as pro-russia is some sort of false flag. Just because they are not anti-russia, like every other party, does not automatically mean that they are pro-russia. AfD and BSW together got more then 25% of all votes. So, you are correct, they virtually are not in power, but they have some real power just by being there. This HN post here is the best example for this mechanism.

razemio 1y ago
I think anti-nato, anti eu, pro russian gas and anti urkraine war aid qualify as pro russian. I get your point, but I think you are wrong? Just read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement AfD has SO many connections to the Kremel. At least a big part of AfD is obiously influenced by russian agenda. BSW is a different topic. They might just align with many points russia likes, but you can not be sure either. BSW or AfD with power in the Bundestag would be russias wet dream in regards to german politics.
- scythe 1y ago
  How many levels of "appear to" are we supposed to tolerate in order to minimize the perspective here? Here's where we started: >The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to [...] So the person we don't like seems like they might be affiliated with a political party which seems like it's pro-Russia — this is unreasonably contrived when you zoom out and look at the whole argument.
  - b1ngus 1y ago
    [dead]
  - InitialLastName 1y ago
    I can't access the article, but "appear to" could also apply to the "all", i.e. "I may have missed a person, but all the people I checked are...".
- 1y ago

throw0101b 1y ago

> […] * BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia).* An example of: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory ?

hannob 1y ago

> The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) Picturing BSW as far-left, while not uncommon, strikes me always as very strange. While it's a bit unclear where to put them with their wild mixture of populism, the only reason they are by some seen as leftwing is because of the history of their founder. She was previously a member of the left party, but for many years, even while she still was a member of that party, has not held any views that could count as far-left. The only reason some still put her in the far-left camp is that she was, looooong ago, a member of the communist platform in the PDS, the predecessor of the left party in Germany.

tonyedgecombe 1y ago
The far left don’t look much different from the far right.
badestrand 1y ago
The BSW is indeed an interesting mix because they are conservative-liberal-left while usually leftist parties are progressive and authoritarian-leaning instead. Examples for the BSW's left politics are * higher taxes for the rich * higher taxes for large and international companies * take on new debt to finance stuff * more state-aided social housing.

paganel 1y ago

[flagged]

taikahessu 1y ago
EU might certainly not be perfect, but as of yet, we don't shoot our own people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
- paganel 1y ago
  [flagged]
- NoOn3 1y ago
  There are a lot of inconsistencies, and it looks very much like it's rigged. Russia simply had no reason to do such a thing.

mslansn 1y ago

AfD represents the political landscape, even if they (yet) have no power because other parties have chosen to marginalise them whilst still can. As long as you have votes, there are people behind you. Isn’t that democracy?

Paradigma11 1y ago
The AfD got 21% last elections.

LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago

The thoughts about bringing it back home are nothing new, though. And not limited to BSW/AFD at all. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven#Diskussion_um_die_Lagerung_im_Ausland https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Goldreserven#Diskussi... for some history. Or some articles from around 10/2012: https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/warum-das-deutsche-gold-im-ausland-bleibt-streit-ums-bundes-gold_id_2536430.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/warum-das-deutsche-gold-i... https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-soll-den-ganzen-goldschatz-heimholen-auslandsreserven_id_2276149.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-soll-den-ganze... https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-enthuellt-so-viel-gold-lagert-in-den-usa-streit-um-den-deutschen-goldschatz_id_2277846.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/bundesbank-enthuellt-so-v... (yooze trännzläyshun!1!!)

raymond_goo 1y ago

If 23% do not represent the German political landscape at all, I don't know what does...