10 ms·

If anyone is interested in a privacy focused tracking app that stores all your data locally, I make an app called Reflect [0] whose sole purpose is this, plus o

If anyone is interested in a privacy focused tracking app that stores all your data locally, I make an app called Reflect [0] whose sole purpose is this, plus on-device analysis. We’re working on a menstrual tracking feature right now and it’s pretty far along. We’ve just released an anomaly detection feature as well. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id6463800032 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id64638...

oulipo 1y ago
I guess using FHE like from https://zama.ai https://zama.ai you could provide server-side features without compromising privacy
rtkwe 1y ago
[flagged]
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  I can understand that. We are also working on an encryption feature that doesn’t use the default encryption primitives so people can have custody over their own keys and feel better about their data security at rest
  - dylan604 1y ago
    Is that better than using the secure enclave type of default? Not everyone is an HN reader that would even know what a personal/private key pair is let alone how to properly/securely handle them.
    - NoTranslationL 1y ago
      As with most advanced features in Reflect, we’ll expose a low friction version to those who don’t want the control, but also the option for more control in the form of key management if they wish
- testing22321 1y ago
  It’s always worth pointing out there are many billions of people who live completely free of this fear of reprisals from the state/country they live in
  - isodev 1y ago
    True, but for many, even “local only” apps store their data on devices managed by US-based companies. Would Apple sell your data to advertisers? - probably not. Would Apple share your data with law enforcement? - of course, and they don’t even need to tell you.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      why why why are you using a company device for such personal information? don't do this.
      - iamacyborg 1y ago
        I don’t believe they mean storing it on a company owned device, just that Apple and Google are US companies
        rtkwe 1y ago
        That's what I got out of isodev's comment too. The data is accessible by US companies still. If it comes down to being able to sell services and phones to the US market or giving up your data to a warrant I don't think Apple would stand on principal and lose US market access. [0] [0] To clarify preemptively I mean if it came down to that in the end. I think Apple would attempt to fight it but if they lost in the Supreme Court and had to make the choice I think privacy would lose that fight.
        dylan604 1y ago
        maybe, but it reads like IT managed devices owned by your employer. i've never seen it referenced as "managed" when referring to the fact that iOS/Android are US companies. seems a strained way to phrase it
- chromanoid 1y ago
  Some disorders more or less require tracking to make them diagnosable and their symptoms managable (e.g. PMDD). Managing tracking with paper is ofc possible, but apps allow for reminders and gamification that help on challenging days.
  - rtkwe 1y ago
    Sure, I'm not saying categorically don't just that people especially in the US and other countries that are having backslides on reproductive rights should think really hard about using period tracking apps if they don't have a strong reason to like you mentioned and even in those cases consider a more deniable and private option.
    - chromanoid 1y ago
      I agree. It seems pretty apocalyptic :(
leereeves 1y ago
That sounds like a good idea with one obvious challenge: how can you prove that data will remain private forever?
- bmacho 1y ago
  Simple + open source + no access to network + no updates (idk about Android/iOS cross-app data sharing).
  - xenator 1y ago
    Still data can be uploaded to the cloud and will be available to cloud providers. So there is more vectors to protect user data.
    - 1718627440 1y ago
      > no access to network ?
      - josephg 1y ago
        I wish this were a capability you could (as a user) grant or reject at will. But there’s a UI problem: people are sick of clicking accept on a million dialog boxes already.
        rustcleaner 1y ago
        GrapheneOS gives per-app network access control.
        antiframe 1y ago
        Your wish exists. The first thing my phone asks before I install a new app is whether to allow network access or not.
      - UnreachableCode 1y ago
        Android and iOS developers need to explicitly request network access in their app's configurations.
Ylpertnodi 1y ago
For people living in the US of Freedom, wouldn't it be good think to 'keep putting in' cycles, despite pregnancy? Should anything untoward happen later, a quick flash o' the app and "Nope, Officer, no siree. Like clockwork, me...".
- XorNot 1y ago
  Duress modes are a frequently overlooked feature in general - e.g. I don't want to just block access to my location, I want to lie about my location entirely.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
    I also would like “give an incorrect location” as an option. Something like that would probably never be supported by Google or Apple officially, because unlike some other privacy features, it’s actively and overtly hostile to advertisers.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      murena - e/OS/ has that as a feature.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      regardless of what apple/google allow officially, the cell carrier also has tracking locations. if you're going out to do something that you would want to hide your location, it's best to just leave the device at home. get a burner phone paid for in cash by someone not you doing the transaction.
      - rustcleaner 1y ago
        Just pointing out this is an all-or-nothing strawman argument summed up as: if you can't have it all, don't bother trying. It's fallacious. That is all. :^)
        1y ago
Mistletoe 1y ago
Really neat app, thanks for sharing.
tveyben 1y ago
Thanx - sounds like what I need ;-)
TechPlasma 1y ago
Do you have a link to the Android app?
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  Unfortunately no android yet, but you can track progress here: https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
- bryanhogan 1y ago
  I'm building an app with the same concept but web based first and converted to Android and iOS via Capacitor, for now. It's not released yet, but if you'd like to get an e-mail notification you could take a look here: https://dailyselftrack.com/ https://dailyselftrack.com/
pickledoyster 1y ago
The report in the OP raises valid concerns about SDKs from third parties, including Google and Facebook. Your own site showcases the Reflect SDK which is, I quote: > The Reflect SDK is the iOS framework that powers the Reflect – Track Anything app and is designed to help you: > > Create forms to track customer product usage and experience > Collect customer biometric data [...] Source: https://ntl.ai/products/ https://ntl.ai/products/ Let's just say I'm skeptical about your claims. Edit: provided a more extensive quote and link to source.
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  This is a totally valid concern. Initially we were considering augmenting our income with a B2B model to license the library we’ve built, but that didn’t pan out and our priorities have changed, so we solely work on the apps for customers now. I actually forgot this was even on our website and, since we aren’t trying to offer those services or license anymore, I’ve removed them.
  - pickledoyster 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - NoTranslationL 1y ago
      What I mean by valid is that, without knowing all the information, skepticism is a good thing. Too many companies take a mile when you give an inch and take advantage of ambiguity. The SDK simply doesn’t exist as a product any more and so doesn’t make sense to keep on our website as an offering. So I’m glad you brought that to my attention. If there are any specifics about the privacy of Reflect you’d like me to elucidate, I’m happy to do that.
      - wasimanitoba 1y ago
        I appreciate your response, even if the other poster doesn't.
      - 1y ago
wferrell 1y ago
Are you using OHTTP? If there are cloud aspects - I think you would want to. Learn more: https://oblivious.network/ohttp https://oblivious.network/ohttp
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  No, because we don’t have any servers. We don’t track anything about our users, not even logs or usage.
- DrammBA 1y ago
  Are you affiliated with OHTTP?
hamburglar 1y ago
This looked promising, but the first two things I tried to record with it seemed just outside of its capabilities. I track blood pressure daily, but it didn’t seem to have a way to record a metric that has two numbers. In addition, I record the sodium and potassium values of everything I eat, and I want a way to record the name of the food item along with those two values (preferably providing a dropdown for previous entries that auto-fills the numeric parts). Also, the nagging about buying premium was quite aggressive and it made me feel like I couldn’t even get a feel for what the app is like first.
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  Yeah, there is no support for “multi-dimensional” metrics. So systolic and diastolic would each have to be their own metric. Food tracking in Reflect could use some work, but if you link with Apple Health, Reflect can pull data from Cronometer or MyFitnessPal for example. Any particular place you thought the premium was very aggressive? I’m open to changing that, it’s not the kind of feedback we normally get. Thanks for saying so
  - hamburglar 1y ago
    A lot of things I clicked on just led to an upsell page that wanted me to do a week trial that led to a $49 monthly, which surprised me since I hadn’t even begun to explore and only had a single metric which I’d never even recorded a datapoint for. And it seemed like I only was allowed to define a single metric, so I tried to delete it in order to create a new one, but clicking “delete” on it was apparently a premium feature as well. I gave up. You really need to let people actually use the product with no commitment, see how it’s useful, and then bug them a month later. Btw, I found a bug: on the page where there are three big buttons and the third is “load a csv”, the csv button isn’t clickable. Only the icon on it is.
    - NoTranslationL 1y ago
      Thanks for all that feedback! One minor point is that the 49.99 is annual. You can define and record unlimited metrics and data on the free version so if you can’t then that’s a bug for sure. Also, noted regarding the import bug, thanks for that.
bryanhogan 1y ago
That looks very interesting. I'm building almost the same actually: http://dailyselftrack.com/ http://dailyselftrack.com/ Any reason your app is iOS only?
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  Reflect started as a passion project for myself and my partner with no intention to make a product out of it. By the time we thought to do so, we’d already put so much into just iOS that doing an Android version as well was its own huge project. We still plan to implement Android, we have a roadmap where we track this: https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
- wferrell 1y ago
  Are you going to have it be local only? I think you would be interested in seeing what Flo has done using OHTTP: https://oblivious.network/ohttp https://oblivious.network/ohttp
  - bryanhogan 1y ago
    It won't be local-only, it will be local-first. So you won't have to put your data online if you don't want to.
2Gkashmiri 1y ago
What kind of "analysis" is done on the data ? We have apps like mensinator that are very simple. I'd like to know if it is different from these simple apps ? Note: im a guy btw
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  Do you mean for menstrual data specifically? Currently for general data there is pearson correlation, five different anomaly detection algorithms, and T tests for significance among other things. The work in progress we have for menstrual tracking takes temperature, flow, and past grund truth data into account. I know that’s vague, and it’s because my partner is working on it, not me :) When we release the cycle tracking we’ll have a full writeup
fragmede 1y ago
What homomorphic encryption technology have you looked into using? this is a good use case for that technology.
- NoTranslationL 1y ago
  I agree it could make sense one day but, as I mentioned in another thread, we don't have any servers and so we don't collect or host any user data (encrypted or not). In fact, I really don't want to; it's overhead and costly, and might involve compliance with HIPAA or GDPR, and I just would rather the user be in charge of their own data. Having FHE for local data would be very interesting though.

oulipo 1y ago

I guess using FHE like from https://zama.ai https://zama.ai you could provide server-side features without compromising privacy

rtkwe 1y ago

[flagged]

NoTranslationL 1y ago
I can understand that. We are also working on an encryption feature that doesn’t use the default encryption primitives so people can have custody over their own keys and feel better about their data security at rest
- dylan604 1y ago
  Is that better than using the secure enclave type of default? Not everyone is an HN reader that would even know what a personal/private key pair is let alone how to properly/securely handle them.
  - NoTranslationL 1y ago
    As with most advanced features in Reflect, we’ll expose a low friction version to those who don’t want the control, but also the option for more control in the form of key management if they wish
testing22321 1y ago
It’s always worth pointing out there are many billions of people who live completely free of this fear of reprisals from the state/country they live in
- isodev 1y ago
  True, but for many, even “local only” apps store their data on devices managed by US-based companies. Would Apple sell your data to advertisers? - probably not. Would Apple share your data with law enforcement? - of course, and they don’t even need to tell you.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    why why why are you using a company device for such personal information? don't do this.
    - iamacyborg 1y ago
      I don’t believe they mean storing it on a company owned device, just that Apple and Google are US companies
      - rtkwe 1y ago
        That's what I got out of isodev's comment too. The data is accessible by US companies still. If it comes down to being able to sell services and phones to the US market or giving up your data to a warrant I don't think Apple would stand on principal and lose US market access. [0] [0] To clarify preemptively I mean if it came down to that in the end. I think Apple would attempt to fight it but if they lost in the Supreme Court and had to make the choice I think privacy would lose that fight.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        maybe, but it reads like IT managed devices owned by your employer. i've never seen it referenced as "managed" when referring to the fact that iOS/Android are US companies. seems a strained way to phrase it
chromanoid 1y ago
Some disorders more or less require tracking to make them diagnosable and their symptoms managable (e.g. PMDD). Managing tracking with paper is ofc possible, but apps allow for reminders and gamification that help on challenging days.
- rtkwe 1y ago
  Sure, I'm not saying categorically don't just that people especially in the US and other countries that are having backslides on reproductive rights should think really hard about using period tracking apps if they don't have a strong reason to like you mentioned and even in those cases consider a more deniable and private option.
  - chromanoid 1y ago
    I agree. It seems pretty apocalyptic :(

leereeves 1y ago

That sounds like a good idea with one obvious challenge: how can you prove that data will remain private forever?

bmacho 1y ago
Simple + open source + no access to network + no updates (idk about Android/iOS cross-app data sharing).
- xenator 1y ago
  Still data can be uploaded to the cloud and will be available to cloud providers. So there is more vectors to protect user data.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    > no access to network ?
    - josephg 1y ago
      I wish this were a capability you could (as a user) grant or reject at will. But there’s a UI problem: people are sick of clicking accept on a million dialog boxes already.
      - rustcleaner 1y ago
        GrapheneOS gives per-app network access control.
      - antiframe 1y ago
        Your wish exists. The first thing my phone asks before I install a new app is whether to allow network access or not.
    - UnreachableCode 1y ago
      Android and iOS developers need to explicitly request network access in their app's configurations.

Ylpertnodi 1y ago

For people living in the US of Freedom, wouldn't it be good think to 'keep putting in' cycles, despite pregnancy? Should anything untoward happen later, a quick flash o' the app and "Nope, Officer, no siree. Like clockwork, me...".

XorNot 1y ago
Duress modes are a frequently overlooked feature in general - e.g. I don't want to just block access to my location, I want to lie about my location entirely.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
  I also would like “give an incorrect location” as an option. Something like that would probably never be supported by Google or Apple officially, because unlike some other privacy features, it’s actively and overtly hostile to advertisers.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    murena - e/OS/ has that as a feature.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    regardless of what apple/google allow officially, the cell carrier also has tracking locations. if you're going out to do something that you would want to hide your location, it's best to just leave the device at home. get a burner phone paid for in cash by someone not you doing the transaction.
    - rustcleaner 1y ago
      Just pointing out this is an all-or-nothing strawman argument summed up as: if you can't have it all, don't bother trying. It's fallacious. That is all. :^)
      - 1y ago

Mistletoe 1y ago

Really neat app, thanks for sharing.

tveyben 1y ago

Thanx - sounds like what I need ;-)

TechPlasma 1y ago

Do you have a link to the Android app?

NoTranslationL 1y ago
Unfortunately no android yet, but you can track progress here: https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
bryanhogan 1y ago
I'm building an app with the same concept but web based first and converted to Android and iOS via Capacitor, for now. It's not released yet, but if you'd like to get an e-mail notification you could take a look here: https://dailyselftrack.com/ https://dailyselftrack.com/

pickledoyster 1y ago

The report in the OP raises valid concerns about SDKs from third parties, including Google and Facebook. Your own site showcases the Reflect SDK which is, I quote: > The Reflect SDK is the iOS framework that powers the Reflect – Track Anything app and is designed to help you: > > Create forms to track customer product usage and experience > Collect customer biometric data [...] Source: https://ntl.ai/products/ https://ntl.ai/products/ Let's just say I'm skeptical about your claims. Edit: provided a more extensive quote and link to source.

NoTranslationL 1y ago
This is a totally valid concern. Initially we were considering augmenting our income with a B2B model to license the library we’ve built, but that didn’t pan out and our priorities have changed, so we solely work on the apps for customers now. I actually forgot this was even on our website and, since we aren’t trying to offer those services or license anymore, I’ve removed them.
- pickledoyster 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - NoTranslationL 1y ago
    What I mean by valid is that, without knowing all the information, skepticism is a good thing. Too many companies take a mile when you give an inch and take advantage of ambiguity. The SDK simply doesn’t exist as a product any more and so doesn’t make sense to keep on our website as an offering. So I’m glad you brought that to my attention. If there are any specifics about the privacy of Reflect you’d like me to elucidate, I’m happy to do that.
    - wasimanitoba 1y ago
      I appreciate your response, even if the other poster doesn't.
    - 1y ago

wferrell 1y ago

Are you using OHTTP? If there are cloud aspects - I think you would want to. Learn more: https://oblivious.network/ohttp https://oblivious.network/ohttp

NoTranslationL 1y ago
No, because we don’t have any servers. We don’t track anything about our users, not even logs or usage.
DrammBA 1y ago
Are you affiliated with OHTTP?

hamburglar 1y ago

This looked promising, but the first two things I tried to record with it seemed just outside of its capabilities. I track blood pressure daily, but it didn’t seem to have a way to record a metric that has two numbers. In addition, I record the sodium and potassium values of everything I eat, and I want a way to record the name of the food item along with those two values (preferably providing a dropdown for previous entries that auto-fills the numeric parts). Also, the nagging about buying premium was quite aggressive and it made me feel like I couldn’t even get a feel for what the app is like first.

NoTranslationL 1y ago
Yeah, there is no support for “multi-dimensional” metrics. So systolic and diastolic would each have to be their own metric. Food tracking in Reflect could use some work, but if you link with Apple Health, Reflect can pull data from Cronometer or MyFitnessPal for example. Any particular place you thought the premium was very aggressive? I’m open to changing that, it’s not the kind of feedback we normally get. Thanks for saying so
- hamburglar 1y ago
  A lot of things I clicked on just led to an upsell page that wanted me to do a week trial that led to a $49 monthly, which surprised me since I hadn’t even begun to explore and only had a single metric which I’d never even recorded a datapoint for. And it seemed like I only was allowed to define a single metric, so I tried to delete it in order to create a new one, but clicking “delete” on it was apparently a premium feature as well. I gave up. You really need to let people actually use the product with no commitment, see how it’s useful, and then bug them a month later. Btw, I found a bug: on the page where there are three big buttons and the third is “load a csv”, the csv button isn’t clickable. Only the icon on it is.
  - NoTranslationL 1y ago
    Thanks for all that feedback! One minor point is that the 49.99 is annual. You can define and record unlimited metrics and data on the free version so if you can’t then that’s a bug for sure. Also, noted regarding the import bug, thanks for that.

bryanhogan 1y ago

That looks very interesting. I'm building almost the same actually: http://dailyselftrack.com/ http://dailyselftrack.com/ Any reason your app is iOS only?

NoTranslationL 1y ago
Reflect started as a passion project for myself and my partner with no intention to make a product out of it. By the time we thought to do so, we’d already put so much into just iOS that doing an Android version as well was its own huge project. We still plan to implement Android, we have a roadmap where we track this: https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
wferrell 1y ago
Are you going to have it be local only? I think you would be interested in seeing what Flo has done using OHTTP: https://oblivious.network/ohttp https://oblivious.network/ohttp
- bryanhogan 1y ago
  It won't be local-only, it will be local-first. So you won't have to put your data online if you don't want to.

2Gkashmiri 1y ago

What kind of "analysis" is done on the data ? We have apps like mensinator that are very simple. I'd like to know if it is different from these simple apps ? Note: im a guy btw

NoTranslationL 1y ago
Do you mean for menstrual data specifically? Currently for general data there is pearson correlation, five different anomaly detection algorithms, and T tests for significance among other things. The work in progress we have for menstrual tracking takes temperature, flow, and past grund truth data into account. I know that’s vague, and it’s because my partner is working on it, not me :) When we release the cycle tracking we’ll have a full writeup

fragmede 1y ago

What homomorphic encryption technology have you looked into using? this is a good use case for that technology.

NoTranslationL 1y ago
I agree it could make sense one day but, as I mentioned in another thread, we don't have any servers and so we don't collect or host any user data (encrypted or not). In fact, I really don't want to; it's overhead and costly, and might involve compliance with HIPAA or GDPR, and I just would rather the user be in charge of their own data. Having FHE for local data would be very interesting though.