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Interesting, as a German (which also has a similar system), I am the complete opposite, I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. And t

Interesting, as a German (which also has a similar system), I am the complete opposite, I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. And the worst part is having to figure out how to address others, especially people you've known for a while but aren't really close to, e.g. say long-time neighbors I rarely meet. Luckily, in the IT industry, it's common to just use first names with everybody.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
It's quite common, even the norm these days, to address people by their first names in professional settings, among colleagues. The thing is that this is also becoming/has become the norm when you get correspondance from strangers when the standard etiquette is to use title + surname, as in all European countries, I suppose. Now, I think when people address you by your surname only, either orally or in writing, it is irritating.
- ncruces 1y ago
  Well, I personally find title + surname the worst; it's obnoxious and elitist; my (first) name isn't "engineer". I can live with it, though. I just kinda hate people who demand it of others. So, clearly, you can't please everybody.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    By title I mean "Mister", etc. Perhaps "Engineer" is a German thing ;)
    - ncruces 1y ago
      And then you must know (if this is a system: store) the person's preferred gender, and in some cultures marital status.
- fmbb 1y ago
  Not all European countries. We phased the title and surname addressing out during the 70s here in Sweden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen Personally I get annoyed only if a sales person addresses me by first name. There is no other setting where I would prefer a stranger to address me using my full name, unless we’re in some context where there are dozens or hundreds of strangers so one can not expect my name is unique.
bryanhogan 1y ago
I appreciate that too at my former university in Germany, it's kinda "very modern" and people always use their first names for everything, professors and students alike. But it gets complicated when emailing professors that are only losely related to the uni.
sumanthvepa 1y ago
It's interesting. My closest friends use my last name, while everyone else uses my first name at work. Apparently it was a hangover from the custom at old British public schools that some old Indian schools retained into the 70s/80s. I sort of like it.
- Tor3 1y ago
  Same here, but the reason is simple - there was a bunch of people with the same first name in my class (1st grade). So we all went by our last name. And, as those still are close friends of mine, after all these decades, they (and everyone else I know from that time) use my last name when addressing me. And other people sometimes pick it up and use it too..
- dcminter 1y ago
  I went to a British private school (which we also call "public schools" to annoy Americans) and it was certainly still hanging on there into the 80s. My brother attended the same school where we briefly overlapped so I was by default "Minter" and when the distinction was needed I was "Minter Minor" and he would have been "Minter Major". Like many things it doesn't make much sense in retrospect. Edit: People do still often call me "Mister Minter" where I'd expect them to use my first name, but I think they just like the alliteration. It's not old schoolfriends doing it.
Muromec 1y ago
Last name address is when things get real. Government and divorse lawyers real. Time to sober up and answer carefully. Not a good feeling, when people do it. The only thing worse is name + patronymic. That could never be good news.
varjag 1y ago
This is remarkable because from my outsider glimpse German culture puts an emphasis on formality and credentials. If someone has a signature like "Dr. Ing. Prof. Anselm Schultz" am sure not opening my email with "Hi Anselm".
- tauchunfall 1y ago
  It changed a lot in the last 25 years. But it can depend from place to place. One of my friends has a Master of Engineering and he was a bit surprised when somebody in Austria addressed him with "Oh, Herr Ingenieur!"
  - smartmic 1y ago
    Austria is special. Using an academic title is customary, and job titles are still common. Many foreigners think Austria and Germany are similar in terms of culture, but there are notable differences between the two countries that can be traced back to their history. I have an Austrian mother and a German father, so I experienced both cultures.
- throaway955 1y ago
  Mr. Doctor Professor
tauchunfall 1y ago
>I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. Me too. There are still German companies where coworkers address others with Herr or Frau followed by their last name. I find it also interesting how people that learn German understand the difference between the "you" in formal ("sie") and informal ("du") version, but often don't understand in which context du use them. In most cases you can use the informal "du" nowadays, especially when you are out with somebody for a beer. After elementary school we had this interesting shift form addressing the other children with first name to addressing them with last name. We were circa 11 years old.
- smartmic 1y ago
  It's a generational thing. There has definitely been a change in recent years, especially the younger generation can no longer do much with the formal “Sie”, but of course they know it. I am 46 years old and have grown up with and been familiar with the “Du/Sie” dichotomy from the very beginning. It also has many advantages and offers clear relationships: There is no ambiguity as to which pronouns I use to address someone, older people and superiors always use “Sie”. With younger people/peers of the same age, you can quickly agree on a “Du”. These days, it's unclear to me who I can address as “Du”. I'm a friend of clarifying this before starting, but it's always a meta conversation, which can hinder the flow of conversation. Besides, it's a kind of badge of honor and a sign of trust when you're offered a “Du”. When I address anyone of our management team as “Du” these days, it irritates me - I'm not “best friends” with them, nor do I feel closer or more connected. For me, the distinction is/was never an expression of whether you are on an equal footing or not.
  - k07b470n 1y ago
    Interesting how you write "Du" and not "du". I'm French and I've been living in Germany for 20 years. I understand and use "du/Sie" more or less appropriately (we have the same dichotomy in French). What I still cannot wrap my head around after all this time is why/when some people use "du/Du", "dein/Dein", "dich/Dich" in writing (to be clear: not at the beginning of a sentence). I guess "Du" is somewhere inbetween "du" und "Sie" on the politeness scala but I never dared to ask. I'm only using lowercase "du". What would be a rule of thumb on how/when to use the uppercase "Du"?
sfifs 1y ago
Yes. I find addressing people by surname uniquely stupid. Like are you calling the person or the historical clan? It perhaps made sense for medieval lords to address their underlings as if they were interchangeable, in our modern context that has largely done away with royalty, using surnames makes no sense. It becomes even more interesting when traditionally cultures (like mine) don't use surnames, but modern IT systems stemming from the Anglo Saxon culture force people to arbitrarily assign one of their names as a surname or IT systems generally don't work.
- anal_reactor 1y ago
  The fact that different cultures evolved such systems independently proves that the general idea does make sense. Case in point: you go to an American company, the CEO says "call me simply John, feel free to chat up whenever you feel like it, we're all family here" and then you go talk to him about sex life problems of your marriage and he just stares at you awkwardly. Having explicit layers of social "closeness" makes things much easier to manage. "We address each other using last names, therefore I won't tell him about sex life of my marriage".
  - bambax 1y ago
    Interesting choice of username, given this comment ;-)
    - notahacker 1y ago
      If you address him as anything more than Mr Reactor you'll learn all about what he gets up to...
      - godelski 1y ago
        He's anal
  - staticman2 1y ago
    In your example the American CEO said you are family. Do you frequently tell you mom, dad, brothers, children and in laws about your sex life? Of course not. Whatever problem the American in this hypothetical is having, name conventions are not likely to help.
EasyMark 1y ago
Yeah I have had bosses refer to me by my last name and it's effin irritating. I almost always prefer relaxed, casual attitudes more than frumpy traditionalist for no good reason situations. I understand rare formal occasions but I don't want to put on some mask of formality every day. I consider everyone equal, at least as far as value as a human being. Just treat me with respect, I'm fine with you using my first name.
bityard 1y ago
Tangent: My father's family is German and all of the males in the family only used their middle name for everything except legal and financial documents. For example, Carl Hans Schmidt (to pick a semi-made-up example) would introduce himself as Hans to everyone he met, and the family would refer to him as Hansi. I always wondered if that was a German (or regional) tradition, or a fun family quirk. (The males have all regrettably passed on but I asked my aunts once and they said they had no idea why or how that was a thing, that's just what they did.)
- anthk 1y ago
  Spanish too. Francisco Javier -> Javi, or maybe Paco (Francisco), but Javi would be the obvious case. Francisco -> Paco from Saint Francis holding a Pater Comunitatis title in Latin. But, as a weirder case: José María -> Chema Luis María -> Luisma Juan Manuel -> Juanma José Manuel -> Chema/Josema Juan Ramón -> Juanra María José (women's name) -> Marijose
  - walthamstow 1y ago
    My personal favourite is Juan Carlos -> Juanca. Sounds great in British English.

mytailorisrich 1y ago

It's quite common, even the norm these days, to address people by their first names in professional settings, among colleagues. The thing is that this is also becoming/has become the norm when you get correspondance from strangers when the standard etiquette is to use title + surname, as in all European countries, I suppose. Now, I think when people address you by your surname only, either orally or in writing, it is irritating.

ncruces 1y ago
Well, I personally find title + surname the worst; it's obnoxious and elitist; my (first) name isn't "engineer". I can live with it, though. I just kinda hate people who demand it of others. So, clearly, you can't please everybody.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  By title I mean "Mister", etc. Perhaps "Engineer" is a German thing ;)
  - ncruces 1y ago
    And then you must know (if this is a system: store) the person's preferred gender, and in some cultures marital status.
fmbb 1y ago
Not all European countries. We phased the title and surname addressing out during the 70s here in Sweden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen Personally I get annoyed only if a sales person addresses me by first name. There is no other setting where I would prefer a stranger to address me using my full name, unless we’re in some context where there are dozens or hundreds of strangers so one can not expect my name is unique.

bryanhogan 1y ago

I appreciate that too at my former university in Germany, it's kinda "very modern" and people always use their first names for everything, professors and students alike. But it gets complicated when emailing professors that are only losely related to the uni.

sumanthvepa 1y ago

It's interesting. My closest friends use my last name, while everyone else uses my first name at work. Apparently it was a hangover from the custom at old British public schools that some old Indian schools retained into the 70s/80s. I sort of like it.

Tor3 1y ago
Same here, but the reason is simple - there was a bunch of people with the same first name in my class (1st grade). So we all went by our last name. And, as those still are close friends of mine, after all these decades, they (and everyone else I know from that time) use my last name when addressing me. And other people sometimes pick it up and use it too..
dcminter 1y ago
I went to a British private school (which we also call "public schools" to annoy Americans) and it was certainly still hanging on there into the 80s. My brother attended the same school where we briefly overlapped so I was by default "Minter" and when the distinction was needed I was "Minter Minor" and he would have been "Minter Major". Like many things it doesn't make much sense in retrospect. Edit: People do still often call me "Mister Minter" where I'd expect them to use my first name, but I think they just like the alliteration. It's not old schoolfriends doing it.

Muromec 1y ago

Last name address is when things get real. Government and divorse lawyers real. Time to sober up and answer carefully. Not a good feeling, when people do it. The only thing worse is name + patronymic. That could never be good news.

varjag 1y ago

This is remarkable because from my outsider glimpse German culture puts an emphasis on formality and credentials. If someone has a signature like "Dr. Ing. Prof. Anselm Schultz" am sure not opening my email with "Hi Anselm".

tauchunfall 1y ago
It changed a lot in the last 25 years. But it can depend from place to place. One of my friends has a Master of Engineering and he was a bit surprised when somebody in Austria addressed him with "Oh, Herr Ingenieur!"
- smartmic 1y ago
  Austria is special. Using an academic title is customary, and job titles are still common. Many foreigners think Austria and Germany are similar in terms of culture, but there are notable differences between the two countries that can be traced back to their history. I have an Austrian mother and a German father, so I experienced both cultures.
throaway955 1y ago
Mr. Doctor Professor

tauchunfall 1y ago

>I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. Me too. There are still German companies where coworkers address others with Herr or Frau followed by their last name. I find it also interesting how people that learn German understand the difference between the "you" in formal ("sie") and informal ("du") version, but often don't understand in which context du use them. In most cases you can use the informal "du" nowadays, especially when you are out with somebody for a beer. After elementary school we had this interesting shift form addressing the other children with first name to addressing them with last name. We were circa 11 years old.

smartmic 1y ago
It's a generational thing. There has definitely been a change in recent years, especially the younger generation can no longer do much with the formal “Sie”, but of course they know it. I am 46 years old and have grown up with and been familiar with the “Du/Sie” dichotomy from the very beginning. It also has many advantages and offers clear relationships: There is no ambiguity as to which pronouns I use to address someone, older people and superiors always use “Sie”. With younger people/peers of the same age, you can quickly agree on a “Du”. These days, it's unclear to me who I can address as “Du”. I'm a friend of clarifying this before starting, but it's always a meta conversation, which can hinder the flow of conversation. Besides, it's a kind of badge of honor and a sign of trust when you're offered a “Du”. When I address anyone of our management team as “Du” these days, it irritates me - I'm not “best friends” with them, nor do I feel closer or more connected. For me, the distinction is/was never an expression of whether you are on an equal footing or not.
- k07b470n 1y ago
  Interesting how you write "Du" and not "du". I'm French and I've been living in Germany for 20 years. I understand and use "du/Sie" more or less appropriately (we have the same dichotomy in French). What I still cannot wrap my head around after all this time is why/when some people use "du/Du", "dein/Dein", "dich/Dich" in writing (to be clear: not at the beginning of a sentence). I guess "Du" is somewhere inbetween "du" und "Sie" on the politeness scala but I never dared to ask. I'm only using lowercase "du". What would be a rule of thumb on how/when to use the uppercase "Du"?

sfifs 1y ago

Yes. I find addressing people by surname uniquely stupid. Like are you calling the person or the historical clan? It perhaps made sense for medieval lords to address their underlings as if they were interchangeable, in our modern context that has largely done away with royalty, using surnames makes no sense. It becomes even more interesting when traditionally cultures (like mine) don't use surnames, but modern IT systems stemming from the Anglo Saxon culture force people to arbitrarily assign one of their names as a surname or IT systems generally don't work.

anal_reactor 1y ago
The fact that different cultures evolved such systems independently proves that the general idea does make sense. Case in point: you go to an American company, the CEO says "call me simply John, feel free to chat up whenever you feel like it, we're all family here" and then you go talk to him about sex life problems of your marriage and he just stares at you awkwardly. Having explicit layers of social "closeness" makes things much easier to manage. "We address each other using last names, therefore I won't tell him about sex life of my marriage".
- bambax 1y ago
  Interesting choice of username, given this comment ;-)
  - notahacker 1y ago
    If you address him as anything more than Mr Reactor you'll learn all about what he gets up to...
    - godelski 1y ago
      He's anal
- staticman2 1y ago
  In your example the American CEO said you are family. Do you frequently tell you mom, dad, brothers, children and in laws about your sex life? Of course not. Whatever problem the American in this hypothetical is having, name conventions are not likely to help.

EasyMark 1y ago

Yeah I have had bosses refer to me by my last name and it's effin irritating. I almost always prefer relaxed, casual attitudes more than frumpy traditionalist for no good reason situations. I understand rare formal occasions but I don't want to put on some mask of formality every day. I consider everyone equal, at least as far as value as a human being. Just treat me with respect, I'm fine with you using my first name.

bityard 1y ago

Tangent: My father's family is German and all of the males in the family only used their middle name for everything except legal and financial documents. For example, Carl Hans Schmidt (to pick a semi-made-up example) would introduce himself as Hans to everyone he met, and the family would refer to him as Hansi. I always wondered if that was a German (or regional) tradition, or a fun family quirk. (The males have all regrettably passed on but I asked my aunts once and they said they had no idea why or how that was a thing, that's just what they did.)

anthk 1y ago
Spanish too. Francisco Javier -> Javi, or maybe Paco (Francisco), but Javi would be the obvious case. Francisco -> Paco from Saint Francis holding a Pater Comunitatis title in Latin. But, as a weirder case: José María -> Chema Luis María -> Luisma Juan Manuel -> Juanma José Manuel -> Chema/Josema Juan Ramón -> Juanra María José (women's name) -> Marijose
- walthamstow 1y ago
  My personal favourite is Juan Carlos -> Juanca. Sounds great in British English.