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The dark side of the Moomins
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoMy favorite piece of Moomin lore is that the very first proto-Moomin sketch was a caricature of Immanuel Kant Tove made to tease her sister, who was a big fan of that guy.
- buovjaga 1y agoI read that same story a long time ago, but apparently it had things mixed up and this is the way it actually went down: https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/the-story-of-moomintrolls/ https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/the-story-of-moomintrolls/ "On a summer day, she was discussing literary philosophy with her brother Per Olov Jansson next to the outhouse at their summer cottage in the archipelago. Tove quoted Immanuel Kant, who Per Olov immediately downplayed. To get back at her brother, Tove drew the ugliest creature she could imagine on the outhouse wall. That drawing, out of chance, is the first glimpse of a Moomin-like figure, although Tove called it a Snork."
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- JKCalhoun 1y agohttps://archive.ph/okLEv https://archive.ph/okLEv
- Arn_Thor 1y agoGrew up watching Moomin on TV and it left with life lessons, good values and deep trauma…
- monero-xmr 1y agoSomehow encompasses the life outlook of all my Finnish relatives
- baq 1y agoNow read the comic books…
- binarysneaker 1y agoSame. Here's the first season (in English) for anyone who's interested https://archive.org/details/moomin-season-1/%5BMoomin+Master%5D+Moomin+season+1/ https://archive.org/details/moomin-season-1/%5BMoomin+Master...
- amiga386 1y agoSame here. I'm not sure what the "not translated into English until 2005" in TFA is meant to mean; sure, maybe that specific book wasn't translated until that date, but much of Europe watched the Polish fuzzy-felt TV adaption in 1978 or 1985.
- tikotus 1y agoI'm not sure how tongue in cheek this was, but I assume it's serious. Either way, it's a fun and smart read. The article spots well the dark side of the moomins, but in my opinion goes too deep into it. My disagreements boil down to this: "One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction have been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of domestic life." Yes, all these things exist, but the point to me has always been that they are cutesy despite that! The stories paint a very typical family dynamic (at least of the time, at least in a Finnish swedish speaking family like Tove's), throws it into weirdest situations, and they all survive together thanks to, and despite, their dysfunctions. And Moominmamma is the most wholesome character ever, period.
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- philips 1y agoI love the books, I have read them all to my kids, and I agree that I think the article takes its thesis too far. The books are strange tales. They have dark undertones. And sometimes the adults take actions that only someone with life experience would really understand (e.g. Moominpappa wanting to suddenly upend everything in the families life and move to an isolated island). But, my kids mostly pick up on the adventure and the friendships. I feel that the Moomins are like most media that is enjoyable by both children and parents in this way (e.g. Bluey, Pixar films, etc.).
- kleinishere 1y agoBased on your experience, what age do you think is ideal for introducing the books to kids?
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- nanis 1y agoFirst time I heard about the Moomins. I thought this was about Mumins[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumin
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- selimthegrim 1y agoThe crossover waiting to happen
- _def 1y agoHa and I thought it was just me. Have been rewatching some episodes some years ago and found it a bit creepy at times, although of course a bit sugar coated and abstract. Actually a great way to make it work for all ages.
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- bazoom42 1y agoMultiple comments here referring to tv-shows. Just be aware that Tove Jansson wrote and illustrated books and comics but did not produce tv shows. What you have seen was not created by Tove Jansson. The comics and the books are different in genre, even if they use the same characters and storylines. The comics are darkly satirial of modern life while the illustrated books feels more poetic and timeless. Fun fact: Jansson illustrated The Hobbit and drew Gollum as a giant. Tolkien realized he never described the size of Gollum and made adjustments to later editions.
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- franek 1y ago> Fun fact: Jansson illustrated The Hobbit and drew Gollum as a giant. Tolkien realized he never described the size of Gollum and made adjustments to later editions. For those curious like me, here are some low-res images: https://zepe.de/tjillu/hobbit/index.html https://zepe.de/tjillu/hobbit/index.html And here an article about the illustrations (haven't read) with a a few images in higher resolution (including Gollum): https://tovejansson.com/hobbit-tolkien/ https://tovejansson.com/hobbit-tolkien/
- gs17 1y agoI don't think there's any reason to gatekeep this so strongly. The original anime and it's sequel, maybe, but both Tove and Lars Jansson were heavily involved with other series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) : > It is, in contrast to the 1990s series, widely believed to be the most faithful TV adaptation of Tove Jansson's stories, and much closer to her vision. Tove herself had a great deal of involvement during the series' production and was very happy with it (as revealed in an interview with Anne Wood in Simon Sheridan's 2007 book The A to Z of Classic Children's Television). The scripts for each episode were translated from Polish into Swedish and sent to Tove and Lars Jansson, who, if they felt that anything needed to be changed, corrected the script, expanding or rewriting it; afterwards, the scripts were sent back and only then did production of the particular episode begin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series) : > Tove and Lars Jansson were also involved with the screenplay by doing certain changes in scripts.
- lifeisstillgood 1y agoThey are children’s tales - which are designed to hide lessons and warnings on the dark side of life in a wrapper that does not traumatise - like an inoculation against what comes. Everything the Grimms brothers collected and Disney sanitised still hides warnings. I have read all my children “The Tiger who came to Tea” as well as taken them to theatre performances- and the author ran from Germany hours before the Gestapo came knocking and it affected much of her life and writing (“Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit” is the autobiography I think) So yeah. It’s got layers onion boy, layers. Still have fond memories of my kid hugging a six foot moomin in Covent Garden.
- logifail 1y ago"Kerr, however, stated more than once that the tiger represents nothing more than a tiger, and had no relevance to her upbringing"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tiger_Who_Came_to_Tea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tiger_Who_Came_to_Tea
- hanslub42 1y agoJanson created more than just the Moomin stories. Check out her murals: https://tovejansson.com/gallery/murals/ https://tovejansson.com/gallery/murals/. I don't see much darkness there... (there is even a small Mumintroll in "Party in the City", in front of the woman smoking a cigarette, a self-portrait of Janson)
- initramfs 1y agoexcellent. like Hobbits' Bag End turned upside down
- npteljes 1y agoIt's a good read, thanks for sharing. Really sad that people would pester the author about the creation. It needs to be realized that the author is just another complex human being, even though they created their fantastic thing. As I experience it takes a lot to think about other people as so complex. We much rather like them as just simple characters. Another thing is that for long-running franchises, it's really interesting to watch the progression of character design. Both visually and characteristically. The first Moomins look really weird, but fun, compared to the later iterations. Because, of course, the context also changed a lot around them - in real life, not in-universe.
- helsinkiandrew 1y agoWho will comfort Toffle is a very moving book about loneliness https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/who-will-comfort-toffle-backstory https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/who-will-comfort-toffle-backs... > But when he tries to write about how lonely he has been, About his house and Hemulen, the smooth white shell he’s seen, > The Groke, the night he sailed the sea, he finds no words will come. He is too shy to write his tale. Poor Toffle is struck dumb. > So Who Will Comfort Toffle now? Will someone lend a hand And help him write to Miffle so that she can understand?
- tejas911 1y agoIt’s striking how Jansson’s cozy Moomin universe is layered with existential dread and the realities of a war-torn era.
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoThere is a fascinating throughline between the themes of Moomin universe and Adventure Time I've been waiting to see someone much more familiar than me with both sources spool out into a 3 hour long YouTube video I can set on in the background.
- account-5 1y agoI never read any of the books, didn't actually know they were originally a book. I grew up with the TV show though. Hated it. I've never watched TV or film for the feels. Tv and film for me is escapism, I don't want to be depressed or have to think. I'm assuming this is why I never liked the moomins.
- fsckboy 1y agoTove wrote them as escapist escape: (FTA) The Moomin stories were born, Jansson wrote to her friend Eva, “when I was feeling sad and scared of bombs and wanted to get away from gloomy thoughts… I would creep into an unbelievable world where everything was natural and friendly – and possible.”
- tarvaina 1y agoThere are actually six different TV series: 1959: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Muminfamilie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Muminfamilie 1969: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1969_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1969_TV_series) 1972: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Moomin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Moomin 1977: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series) 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moominvalley_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moominvalley_(TV_series)
- sandgiant 1y agoI highly recommend the 1990 Polish stop motion TV series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series). The only one that, to me, captures the magic of the books.
- briandw 1y agoI lived in Finland for a couple years. Finns, like the Moomins, are whimsical yet profound, like midsummer’s fleeting joy before the long winter. They mirror Finland’s love of nature and quiet isolation, with their cozy valley echoing the Finns forest cabins by a lake. The happy vibe hides struggles—tough winters, heavy drinking—but the Moomins’ warmth reflects the Finns’ wholesome character.
- xandrius 1y ago[flagged]
- Paianni 1y agoFinns (or at least, the successors to tribes that assimilated into the modern-day Finnish nation) were exposed to Christianity later than most of Europe. Pre-Christian religions generally held a higher regard for relationships with nature, that might explain what you're getting at.
- weregiraffe 1y agoYou might reconsider trying to explain a nation of millions through a few books.
- raptorraver 1y agoDon't have time to read through the whole article. But just wanted to point out that there are also Moomin cartoons which have really politically uncorrect stories: like Moomins travelling to spain, trying to buy opium but eating some weird drugs instead and then staring for sea for a week and missing their fligth back.
- biorach 1y agoTo be fair, that's an uncannily accurate prediction of many visitors' experiences when visiting Ibiza
- anthk 1y agoFor Spaniards, Ibiza was and it's seen as a place for electronic music, posh-background hippies and psychodelics.
- buovjaga 1y agoMoomins at Torrelorca: https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumit.html https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumit.html Relevant pages: https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/18.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/18.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/19.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/19.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/20.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/20.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/21.jpg https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/21.jpg "Waiter, four marijuanas" - they end up scoring LBJ pills instead as marijuana was so last season. Note that the comic is by Lars Jansson, Tove's brother.
- nabla9 1y ago“How can I be so thirsty when I've been drinking all night?” – Moomintroll (in the Cartoon)
- designerarvid 1y agoTove Jansson also drew political satire cartoons during WW2. Before Mumintrollen. https://tovejansson.com/sv/story/illustrator-barnboksforfattare/tove_jansson_garm_hitler_cover_1938/ https://tovejansson.com/sv/story/illustrator-barnboksforfatt...
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- etc-hosts 1y agoI suppose you could state she was half Swedish since her mother was from a Swedish family from Stockholm.
- timonoko 1y agoTove was surely gravely insulted when somebody called her Swede. Especially after Winter War. Finland and Sweden had defense pact but Sweden choose to be neutral and promote peace. And so it deliberately hindered war effort preventing arms transport from Norway ports. Only aid was volunteers, which were mostly Finns living in Sweden.
- yourpants 1y agoSurely? But she was ethnically a Swede.
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- y2236li 1y agoIt’s fascinating how the Moomins’ appeal seems to stem from a comforting, albeit slightly skewed, portrayal of family dynamics – a familiar, albeit idealized, model. While I appreciate the insightful analysis of the misinterpretations, I’m more drawn to the sheer whimsicalness and resilience of the stories themselves, rather than a bleak, pessimistic view of domestic life. It's a brilliant observation to connect the Moomins’ narrative to broader themes of longing and escape, a quality I find deeply compelling.
- y2236li 1y agoThat’s a really interesting take on the Moomins. I agree that the misinterpretations of their tales are fascinating – it highlights how stories can be shaped by our own perspectives. I especially appreciate how you highlight the resilience of the family dynamic, even with its dysfunction. It’s a thoughtful and somewhat melancholic, yet captivating, perspective, and I can see how that resonates with you.
- Unearned5161 1y agowebsite causes full page malware ad with the "your phone has a virus" pop-up if opened on ad-blockless browser
- danslaboudoir 1y agoThe introduction of The Groke absolutely terrified me when I was younger. I put it up there with the Xenomorph in terms of a mysterious, capable, superior foe.
- culebron21 1y agoQuestion to Swedes: what were you child impressions of "Pettson och Findus"? I read it to children as an adult, and impressions are that it tells of the funny & sad sides of taking care of children, and I sympathize to Pettson, of course. I wonder how you saw it as children. On topic: interesting read. I'd never think these stories had so much dark side to them. I got all 9 stories in 3 books at the age of 11 and read most of them, and was very happy with the stories, never noticing any of the dread the article speaks about. Especially the Midwinter story was fascinating - we lived not that North, but in cold winter mid-continent, and the story was like looking out watching for the first signs of the spring, that eventually always comes, but you shouldn't celebrate any of those too early -- when day temperature comes above 0 in March, you know it's going to be freezing in the evening. (Later I was stunned with foreigners in our city complain of this March weather, call it "winter" and be depressed!) A few years ago someone on social networks posted her impressions from reading them out loud to children -- that indeed it's depressive. So I guess, the conclusion is that people make opposite meanings and moods of the same events.
- impossiblefork 1y agoI liked Pettson because he's awesome and invents things. I think he's like a physical version of the guy who writes a bunch scripts that together are able to do all his work. Findus is more of experimenter. He comes up with an idea about something, and ends up following that idea so that it gets tested. He isn't a systematic, scientific experimenter though, since he's a cat. I also liked all the little animals. To contrast that with the Moomin stories, I only saw it on TV, but it was immediately obvious that they were very austere and very Finnish, even though of course, the author is a Finland-Swede. It's good stuff, but can be, not scary, but something adjacent, to watch as a child. It might be worth it since it allows you to understand these characters in this very austere, isolated environment.
- culebron21 1y agoInteresting. I've only watched Soviet cartoons about Moomins, so no idea what's no dreadful in the Dutch one.
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- sibeliuss 1y agoJust got done reading Moominpapa's Memoirs to my kid! Great book.
- brador 1y agoSignificant number of lost episodes of MOOMINS. Was around 20 episodes never found last time I checked. It used to be even more but someone from Japan found a few. And the creator refuses to talk about some of the lost episodes.
- fuzzy_biscuit 1y agoWhen I get manipulative ads right off the bat after rejecting cookies, I bounce. A shame as I was curious about the actual content.
- stevage 1y agoI had no idea it was such a large enterprise. I'm in Australia, and read one of the books as a kid. But other than that, I don't think I ever encountered any form of them, or even really heard anyone mention them, until the recent movie adaptation.
- 47282847 1y agoI think it is crucial that children get exposure to the sad reality, not in order to normalize it but because the idea of hiding it is what stops progress in the first place and confuses children more than the plain truth. Children need truth and not shielding from it. Highly recommended book around this fundamental mistake in education by a French child psychologist: A corps et a cris. Être psychanalyste avec les tout-petits (Caroline Eliacheff).
- mystraline 1y agoI'll pass along a joke I read years ago. Mozzarella is moomin meat.
- jonstewart 1y agoIt’s not so unlike Charles Schultz.
- internet_points 1y agoFor anyone who has just seen the tv shows, I highly recommend reading the books. There are so many layers to her stories.
- kaffeeringe 1y agoI literally finished the movie about Tove Jansson minutes before I found this article! Thank you for sharing!
- dusted 1y agoI loved Moomins as a kid, and was so surprised when I talked with my wife about it, she thought they were so scary and "off" feeling. I'm watching them now with our son, and I guess I was just born with a strong appreciation for melancholia. I changed my mind, when I was a kid I thought they were good, now I think they are great! In many ways, what makes moomin dark is that it shows us what we already know, the world _just_is_ and in the big picture, does not care about you, you might die, someone you care about might go away, and everyone is, fundamentally, alone, and what makes a person who they are, is partly how they deal with, if at all, being alone in this world of loners. Moomin is very real and very direct in its dealings with the pain of the meaninglessness of life. Snufkin, as a child, I took him for a cynic and disliked him, but he taught me something about the world, I think he is a stoic and a nihilist, and I very much like him now, he simply _IS_ in the world, and he accepts, and so appreciates that which also simply is, and which he cannot control. Yeah, Moomin is dark, but life is dark, life is pleasure and pain, and we will all die, everyone we ever loved will suffer and die, but they will also experience pleasure and life, one could chose only suffering and death, one cannot chose only pleasure and life, and must come to terms with the fact that the underpinnings of pleasure and life is indeed suffering and pain. That's it, the world just is, and we're just in it. I feel like a lot of the cartoons and tv shows of my childhood was like this, life.. it kinda has bad parts.. and back then, they showed them to kids, and what do I know.. maybe it prepared us to take it on ?