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This is called Level 3 data, and any merchant can choose to provide it for a reduction in the transaction fees they pay. Here's a small comment thread from a f
by curiousthought 2y ago
This is called Level 3 data, and any merchant can choose to provide it for a reduction in the transaction fees they pay.
Here's a small comment thread from a few months back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41213632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41213632
- uoaei 2y agoIs there any documentation on this to read further? I.e. what the different levels contain and how much on average is the cost reduction for the merchant.
- devmor 2y agoHere is implementation documentation from Mastercard about l3: https://na-gateway.mastercard.com/api/documentation/integrationGuidelines/supportedFeatures/pickAdditionalFunctionality/levelIIAndIIIData/index.html?locale=en_US https://na-gateway.mastercard.com/api/documentation/integrat... The cost reduction is very small, it’s applied to interchange fees. I’ve been directly responsible for implementing this functionality on payment gateways for multiple processors because it helps reduce fraud holds as well.
- uoaei 2y agoSeparate question, what are your ethics around the surveillance of Americans' economic activities by private actors? What "rights" are relevant in this space and which do you subscribe to? I'm not going to debate you about anything, I just don't get the chance to ask insiders any of these questions.
- chgs 2y agoDo you think there are different ethical concerns when dealing with non Americans?
- actionfromafar 2y agoAlso a great question.
- devmor 2y agoMy ethics are “this is unequivocally wrong without consent”. Thankfully my work was on payment products that serviced businesses and government entities, so I did not really have to deal with that moral quandary. However it gets muddier in other spaces as well. There are types of cards, like HSA/FSA that require something similar to level 3 data called IIAS that is used to determine what parts of your purchase are eligible. In the parts of the systems I have worked with, this is covered by HIPAA, but I have no idea if there are “clever” methods to sneak that data out of the chain elsewhere.
- no_time 2y agoIs this data requestable via a GDPR takeout? searching for “mastercard level 3 data takeout” and such bring up the same 5 pages that are not relevant.
- anon7000 2y agoIt’s honestly crazy that we allow companies to sell our data — and even financially incentivize companies to share our data like this.
- kortilla 2y agoThe problem is that to you it seems like your data but to Walgreens they see it as theirs. They generated it with their point of sale system. The data is about a transaction that you made, but they generated all of it. Until we have agreement as a society about what “my data” means, this kind of stuff is going to run rampant.
- robotnikman 2y ago>what “my data” means It makes me wonder, if everyone 'owned' their own data, I wonder if it could be used as a form of UBI. Everyone has data from using services, everyone owns it, everyone can sell it to make a living just doing whatever they are doing everyday. This is only just a shower thought I had the other day though, there are probably many pitfalls when it comes to such an idea.
- xboxnolifes 2y agoUnlikely. I'd think the most valuable data is generally the type that can be used to extract money from you. Targeted ads and such. So, your data's value would increase in proportion with your spending power.
- BobaFloutist 2y agoHonestly the path to "UBI" is probably just socialized/subsidized basic needs. Build masses of government housing, make a healthcare public option with sliding-scale costs, and you're 90% of the way there - food and decent low-end broadband are frankly already cheap enough for the government to cover with maybe some "Don't gouge Uncle Sam or else" clauses and that's about everything.
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- coin 2y agoWho is Level 3 data shared with, ie who is the aggregator? Is it the credit card bank then aggregates and sells it?
- baxtr 2y agoSo in essence the merchant pays with my data?
- bredren 2y agoYes, though people also welcome the extra cash back or other card benefits. Apple Card does not sell this data, IIRC. But offers a lower cash back than many other cards.
- Terretta 2y agoTrue, while Google sees roughly 85% of all American cardholder swipes and doesn't need to sell it since they're making the ad market...
- fragmede 2y ago> while Google sees roughly 85% of all American cardholder swipe I'm probably not reading this properly, can you say that a different way?
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- yolovoe 2y agoGoogle buys transaction data from credit card companies (Visa, Mastercard, etc). They almost certainly know what you spend money on
- cluckindan 2y agoFor every 20 Americans with a credit card, 17 have all their purchases sent to Google.
- andrepd 2y agoHow on earth is this legal
- inahga 2y agoThanks for the details. > choose to provide it for a reduction in the transaction fees they pay. That would explain why I can use my credit card for rent without a transaction fee! No free lunch!