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You know what AI profiles I want more of? Clueless grandma/grandpa that accepts scammer calls and waste their time. Such as UK's O2 Daisy: https://news.virginme

You know what AI profiles I want more of? Clueless grandma/grandpa that accepts scammer calls and waste their time. Such as UK's O2 Daisy: https://news.virginmediao2.co.uk/o2-unveils-daisy-the-ai-granny-wasting-scammers-time/ https://news.virginmediao2.co.uk/o2-unveils-daisy-the-ai-gra...

cute_boi 2y ago
Imagine AI calling AI and wasting each others time :D
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- pkkkzip 2y ago
  This is actually a hilarious scenario. Anthropomorphize TTS with Indian accents to entrap the other AI agent into thinking they are a real human. DDOS their o1 API calls by soft jail breaking prompts using complex programming questions disguised as typical Microsoft support issues. CodeBot: Word tables blank sometimes. Hmm. SupportBot: What version? Try a repair. CodeBot: Memory issue maybe? Bad alloc? SupportBot: Rare. Repair is next. CodeBot: Threading problem sar? Data races? SupportBot: Try repair, new doc please sar.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    ScamVictimBot: sound = tts("Say again?") // constant, might as well cache while(true): phone.out(sound) _ = phone.waitUntilNextPause()
- drdrey 2y ago
  really wasting each other’s energy
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    really wasting humanity's energy and the planet's climate
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      A lot of human activity is exactly this, especially in the realm of marketing, so maybe AI getting trapped in the same nonsense would finally make people understand how stupid and absurd this is.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- barbazoo 2y ago
  And wasting resources too. We’ve peaked as a species.
zombiwoof 2y ago
Exactly
crmd 2y ago
There is another real-world version of this in the US healthcare system, where doctor offices are using domain-specific LLMs to craft multi-page medical approval requests for procedures that cover every known loophole insurer’s use to deny, which are then being reviewed by ML-powered algorithms at the insurance company looking for any way to deny and delay the claim approval. In other words we have a bona fide AI arms race between doctors and insurers with patient outcomes and profits in play. Wild stuff and nothing I could have ever imagined would be an applied use of ML research from earlier in my career.
- dpflan 2y ago
  Interesting. Do you have any examples to share?
  - mancharface1 2y ago
    Agree. I'd love to see an example of this, or read more about it.
  - starkparker 2y ago
    This piqued my interest too. I found a few adjacent papers but couldn't find a source that made as comprehensive of a claim. The closest were: - "In constant battle with insurers, doctors reach for a cudgel: AI" from NYT (via Salt Lake Tribune), 2024 July, which is mostly on doctors using law-compliant LLMs to draft prior authorizations and has a passing one-graf mention of insurers likely doing the same: https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2024/07/11/constant-battle-with-insurers/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2024/07/11/constant... - "The AI arms race over your medical bill" from Politico, 2024 Jan., summarizing LLM use in coding, billing, and fraud prevention: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/01/05/the-ai-arms-race-over-your-medical-bill-00133883 https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/01/05..., linking to https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/31/ai-medical-expenses-00132557 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/31/ai-medical-expenses... and https://govciomedia.com/how-health-tech-leaders-use-ai-to-combat-fraud-2/ https://govciomedia.com/how-health-tech-leaders-use-ai-to-co... Aside from that: "Large Language Models to Help Appeal Denied Radiotherapy Services" from JCO Clinical Cancer Information, 2024 Sept. (abstract only; full-text paywalled) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250740/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250740/ "The potential of large language models in the insurance sector", 2024 Feb. (commercial white paper), largely focused on "fraud detection" in claims: https://www.milliman.com/en/insight/potential-of-large-language-models-insurance-sector https://www.milliman.com/en/insight/potential-of-large-langu... "IQVIA NLP Risk Adjustment Solution (undated commercial white paper), marketing pitch on using AI to improve coding accuracy and reduce chart review times: https://www.iqvia.com/-/media/iqvia/pdfs/library/fact-sheets/iqvia-natural-language-processing-risk-adjustment-solution.pdf https://www.iqvia.com/-/media/iqvia/pdfs/library/fact-sheets...
amelius 2y ago
Or AI profiles that pen-test the real grandmas/grandpas.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
seizethecheese 2y ago
My father has fallen for one fraud after another these last few years. It’s disgusting. Anything in the direction of solving this would be doing the lord’s work.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The solution is for all foreign wire transfers to be insured and reversible which would drive up the cost of doing business with countries home to scammers.
  - seizethecheese 2y ago
    The scams sometimes involve getting him to buy gift cards and then sending the card number. Not sure your solution would help.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      Gift cards are a money transmitting service.
  - isubkhankulov 2y ago
    That’s just going to drive more fraud to the receiver’s side. For example, one can pay for goods and receive them, then reverse the payment. This already is a huge percentage of fraud that businesses have to deal with, and there is a large industry built around preventing it. Fighting fraud (and other crimes) requires vigilance from all parties.
    - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
      Yeah, that's basically what happened in the case of the famous Nespresso Money Mule story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU
  - fallingknife 2y ago
    Insured against what? (The bank is already liable if the account is breached). These scam transfers are intentional acts authorized by the account holders. A company can't be held liable for the stupidity of its customers.
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
It's a funny thought on the surface, but the people working these scams are typically slaves, more or less. I'd rather go after their slavers than waste electricity to waste their time.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
  If there's no money in slavery there won't be any slaves. Yes, they'll get moved onto other things but this is currently the most profitable slavery operation available so that seems like a good place to start.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  This is not attacking the people on the phone, it's attacking the whole operation. The person on the phone is going to be on the phone regardless of whether they're talking to an AI or a victim. The AI is merely talking on the phone, not abusing the caller in any way (other than perhaps eating into their commission). I also think it's extremely simplistic to call the people making the calls "slaves". A lot of the time, they are in facr the perpetrators. Even when they are part of a more organized operation, they (1) are likely paid per successful scam, so they are co-interested in hurting you, and (2) fully aware they are scaring and stealing from someone. So I wouldn't call these people slaves, I'd call them low-level criminals.
- bambax 2y ago
  It's sad you're downvoted, because you're right. So called "anti-scammers" who make a fortune on Youtube or that Reddit apparently considers heroes, are in effect preying on the poor. The real culprits are the bosses, not the ones doing the phone calls.
leshenka 2y ago
I once tried calling my relatives in Russia and was instead connected with exactly this kind of bot. I guess this has something to do with my phone number starting with +38 and that nobody actually calls their relatives by mobile phone anymore

cute_boi 2y ago

Imagine AI calling AI and wasting each others time :D

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pkkkzip 2y ago
This is actually a hilarious scenario. Anthropomorphize TTS with Indian accents to entrap the other AI agent into thinking they are a real human. DDOS their o1 API calls by soft jail breaking prompts using complex programming questions disguised as typical Microsoft support issues. CodeBot: Word tables blank sometimes. Hmm. SupportBot: What version? Try a repair. CodeBot: Memory issue maybe? Bad alloc? SupportBot: Rare. Repair is next. CodeBot: Threading problem sar? Data races? SupportBot: Try repair, new doc please sar.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  ScamVictimBot: sound = tts("Say again?") // constant, might as well cache while(true): phone.out(sound) _ = phone.waitUntilNextPause()
drdrey 2y ago
really wasting each other’s energy
- cratermoon 2y ago
  really wasting humanity's energy and the planet's climate
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    A lot of human activity is exactly this, especially in the realm of marketing, so maybe AI getting trapped in the same nonsense would finally make people understand how stupid and absurd this is.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
barbazoo 2y ago
And wasting resources too. We’ve peaked as a species.

zombiwoof 2y ago

Exactly

crmd 2y ago

There is another real-world version of this in the US healthcare system, where doctor offices are using domain-specific LLMs to craft multi-page medical approval requests for procedures that cover every known loophole insurer’s use to deny, which are then being reviewed by ML-powered algorithms at the insurance company looking for any way to deny and delay the claim approval. In other words we have a bona fide AI arms race between doctors and insurers with patient outcomes and profits in play. Wild stuff and nothing I could have ever imagined would be an applied use of ML research from earlier in my career.

dpflan 2y ago
Interesting. Do you have any examples to share?
- mancharface1 2y ago
  Agree. I'd love to see an example of this, or read more about it.
- starkparker 2y ago
  This piqued my interest too. I found a few adjacent papers but couldn't find a source that made as comprehensive of a claim. The closest were: - "In constant battle with insurers, doctors reach for a cudgel: AI" from NYT (via Salt Lake Tribune), 2024 July, which is mostly on doctors using law-compliant LLMs to draft prior authorizations and has a passing one-graf mention of insurers likely doing the same: https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2024/07/11/constant-battle-with-insurers/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2024/07/11/constant... - "The AI arms race over your medical bill" from Politico, 2024 Jan., summarizing LLM use in coding, billing, and fraud prevention: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/01/05/the-ai-arms-race-over-your-medical-bill-00133883 https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/01/05..., linking to https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/31/ai-medical-expenses-00132557 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/31/ai-medical-expenses... and https://govciomedia.com/how-health-tech-leaders-use-ai-to-combat-fraud-2/ https://govciomedia.com/how-health-tech-leaders-use-ai-to-co... Aside from that: "Large Language Models to Help Appeal Denied Radiotherapy Services" from JCO Clinical Cancer Information, 2024 Sept. (abstract only; full-text paywalled) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250740/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250740/ "The potential of large language models in the insurance sector", 2024 Feb. (commercial white paper), largely focused on "fraud detection" in claims: https://www.milliman.com/en/insight/potential-of-large-language-models-insurance-sector https://www.milliman.com/en/insight/potential-of-large-langu... "IQVIA NLP Risk Adjustment Solution (undated commercial white paper), marketing pitch on using AI to improve coding accuracy and reduce chart review times: https://www.iqvia.com/-/media/iqvia/pdfs/library/fact-sheets/iqvia-natural-language-processing-risk-adjustment-solution.pdf https://www.iqvia.com/-/media/iqvia/pdfs/library/fact-sheets...

amelius 2y ago

Or AI profiles that pen-test the real grandmas/grandpas.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

seizethecheese 2y ago

My father has fallen for one fraud after another these last few years. It’s disgusting. Anything in the direction of solving this would be doing the lord’s work.

throwaway48476 2y ago
The solution is for all foreign wire transfers to be insured and reversible which would drive up the cost of doing business with countries home to scammers.
- seizethecheese 2y ago
  The scams sometimes involve getting him to buy gift cards and then sending the card number. Not sure your solution would help.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Gift cards are a money transmitting service.
- isubkhankulov 2y ago
  That’s just going to drive more fraud to the receiver’s side. For example, one can pay for goods and receive them, then reverse the payment. This already is a huge percentage of fraud that businesses have to deal with, and there is a large industry built around preventing it. Fighting fraud (and other crimes) requires vigilance from all parties.
  - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
    Yeah, that's basically what happened in the case of the famous Nespresso Money Mule story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU
- fallingknife 2y ago
  Insured against what? (The bank is already liable if the account is breached). These scam transfers are intentional acts authorized by the account holders. A company can't be held liable for the stupidity of its customers.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

It's a funny thought on the surface, but the people working these scams are typically slaves, more or less. I'd rather go after their slavers than waste electricity to waste their time.

AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
If there's no money in slavery there won't be any slaves. Yes, they'll get moved onto other things but this is currently the most profitable slavery operation available so that seems like a good place to start.
tsimionescu 2y ago
This is not attacking the people on the phone, it's attacking the whole operation. The person on the phone is going to be on the phone regardless of whether they're talking to an AI or a victim. The AI is merely talking on the phone, not abusing the caller in any way (other than perhaps eating into their commission). I also think it's extremely simplistic to call the people making the calls "slaves". A lot of the time, they are in facr the perpetrators. Even when they are part of a more organized operation, they (1) are likely paid per successful scam, so they are co-interested in hurting you, and (2) fully aware they are scaring and stealing from someone. So I wouldn't call these people slaves, I'd call them low-level criminals.
bambax 2y ago
It's sad you're downvoted, because you're right. So called "anti-scammers" who make a fortune on Youtube or that Reddit apparently considers heroes, are in effect preying on the poor. The real culprits are the bosses, not the ones doing the phone calls.

leshenka 2y ago

I once tried calling my relatives in Russia and was instead connected with exactly this kind of bot. I guess this has something to do with my phone number starting with +38 and that nobody actually calls their relatives by mobile phone anymore