6 ms·

The only thing he is actually charged with is possession of a short barreled rifle. The prosecutor's documents do not even have photographs of the portion of t

The only thing he is actually charged with is possession of a short barreled rifle. The prosecutor's documents do not even have photographs of the portion of the firearm that would establish whether it was configured as a "rifle" - it is perfectly legal under federal law to possess an AR style pistol with a naked buffer tube or a pistol brace, without a tax stamp. In the one photograph they do have of this firearm, they intentionally crop it so that it is not possible to evaluate.

strathmeyer 2y ago
OK but what about all the dangerous explosives and the intent to murder innocent people?
- giantg2 2y ago
  That's the question - why isn't he charged with those more blatant infractions. Maybe he will be, but just hasn't yet.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    That's not uncommon; Luigi Mangione was first charged with having the unpermitted handgun and fake IDs. They want enough to hold and investigate further initially; they'll have taken all the bombs.
- ncr100 2y ago
  "Soon": Get the process going, ankle monitor strapped and movement of suspect restricted, continue the law enforcement investigation, and make additional charges if violations are identified.
declan_roberts 2y ago
It seems to me like they busted an eccentric collector. Men love this kind of stuff. If TNT was legal to own there would probably be a collector for it.
- franktankbank 2y ago
  If TNT was legal to own I'd be buying it for my farm.
  - lazide 2y ago
    it is legal to own with the right permits, in most areas. The more dense the population, the more heavily restricted in general.
    - franktankbank 2y ago
      There's legal and then there's needing 5 certifications, yearly renewals etc etc in order to avoid destroying your tractor for handling common nuisance on the farm.
      - lazide 2y ago
        i agree, which is why it’s harder to run across now. Notably, it’s about the same amount of paperwork or less than owning guns in most European countries.
      - fasa99 2y ago
        A lot of regulations are a mess. As I understand it, agriculture drones full of fertilizer are beginning to be used throughout, makes sense. And tractors run on diesel since forever. So add diesel to the fertilizer drone now you have a viable powerful weapon... unregulated. I'm sure tens of thousands of farmers have this in their pocket right now, just not their intent. Same with firearms. A pea shooter .22, highly regulated, felony charges everywhere. Now, a 50 caliber airgun? No gunpowder, not a firearm. They even make automatic airguns. Arguably with a large air supply and large ammo clip, and airgun could trounce some automatics, primarily because their barrels won't overheat, they might overcool though because physics of expanding gasses. And yet the humble .22 is the highly regulated one. Some governments and regulators attempt to enumerate every possible conceivable bad thing and outlaw it. Problem is it's not enumerable, there will always be dozens of missed loopholes, which the regulations will steer people into. Parallels the warping and skewing of trying to fix an economy through proclamation versus distributed capitalism.
jt2190 2y ago
As a legal filing, perhaps it’s important to show a picture of the weapon in a neutral way, in order to avoid an argument over the filing itself. (I’m not a lawyer just speculating.)
- wl 2y ago
  They could have photographed the entire firearm from buffer tube to muzzle device in a neutral way.
rustcleaner 2y ago
I have a dream... that one day we will have a DEA which only regulates purity and accuracy of dose for drugs, and an ATF which only regulates quality and accuracy for firearms. These laws do little to protect the public and they mire enthusiasts with steep and discouraging legal (and thus personal physical) risks. This sort of thinking about the role of government has to stop; it is human civilization's chief sickness.
- anon7000 2y ago
  “Chief sickness” is pretty strong when there are dozens of other human problems that are considerably worse.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  I have a well regulated militia dream. give up guys.
  - sneak 2y ago
    The 2A is interpreted both popularly and legally as an individual right: it is the right of the people, not the right of the militia. And, as I’m sure you know, the term “regulated” as written in 2A does not mean the same thing as “regulated” in terms of “government regulation”. In context, it means approximately “well-functioning” or “reliable”.
    - dr_dshiv 2y ago
      “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” An individual right to participate in a well regulated militia.
      - Pyxl101 2y ago
        In historical context, the “militia” was everyone, every able bodied person who could participate in common defense. It wasn’t a specific organization like we’d think of today Beyond that, the right is entirely unconnected with service in a militia. That clause at the beginning “A well-regulated Militia …” does not scope or bound what comes next; it offers one explanation for why that right is protected. SCOTUS explained the historical meaning of these words in more detail in District of Columbia vs. Heller, including an in-depth examination of the language as part of its opinion that the right is an individual right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Hell... The SCOTUS decision itself is quite readable. https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep554/usrep554570/usrep554570.pdf https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep... Notably: > Held: > 1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. > (a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.
jvanderbot 2y ago
The suspect informed a confidential source that he had a 10" barrel rifle. The source provided pictures of the rifle to authorities, and had seen it before several times, including going shooting with the suspect. The source provided several other points of data supporting him caching weapons and possessing a short rifle. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917.4.0_1.pdf?utm_source=www.courtwatch.news&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=largest-seizure-of-homemade-explosives-in-fbi-history-made-in-virginia https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.56... You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear, but I'm not sure how they measure barrel length here, but to my eyes it is 13" (unless the last 3 are a suppressor of some sort that isn't counted). https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917.18.2.pdf?utm_source=www.courtwatch.news&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=largest-seizure-of-homemade-explosives-in-fbi-history-made-in-virginia https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.56... This is from the probable cause affidavit, which I guess is used to obtain a warrant?
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  The muzzle device looks to be a flash suppressor, possibly a Noveske KX3 or something similar. Muzzle devices don't count towards barrel length, except in some cases where they're permanently attached. That said, 13" is also a short-barreled rifle length. If this is indeed a rifle, and not an AR pistol.
- generalizations 2y ago
  > You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear The buffer tube extends off the rear, which has been cropped from the image.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    I understand now, thank you
- Tuna-Fish 2y ago
  > You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear, The issue is that it is entirely legal to have an AR-15 configured as a pistol with a very short barrel, without any tax stamps. That is, not having a stock attached to it. The image provided does not prove that he has a short-barreled rifle, because you cannot see whether it has a stock.
tw04 2y ago
I guess what is it you're trying to imply? Because I find it EXTREMELY unlikely the FBI agents in question don't know what qualifies as an SBR vs. a pistol. Furthermore, even if he does have a naked buffer tube, if the gun was registered as a rifle at the time of purchase, it is a rifle. You cannot "convert" a rifle lower to a pistol if it was defined as a rifle when you bought it. It also seems EXCEEDINGLY unlikely the FBI would make a giant press release before anyone verified if the rifle in question was actually violating any laws. There would be almost nothing to gain, and a LOT of egg on everyone's face if the guy walks because nobody at the FBI knew the difference between an SBR and an AR pistol.
- ty6853 2y ago
  The feds recently convicted a guy by arguing a piece of metal (basically a metal business card) with a drawing of a machine gun conversion device on, as having sold machine guns. They can literally just lie about the law and confuse the ignorant jury as they did for matt hoover. In a couple years he'll get released on appeal, who cares, they already destroyed his business and relegated his wife and childs mother to begging for money on YouTube.
  - tw04 2y ago
    So link to the court case and details? When you create an account just to post in this thread endlessly defending what appears to be at minimum someone who probably shouldn’t own guns in the first place, it’s difficult to believe you’re here for anything other than stirring the pot. Oh, I found it. He was literally selling a machine gun conversion kit and claiming it was a business card. It very clearly wasn’t. And it wasn’t a “drawing” it was the metal pieces to convert an AR to fully automatic by breaking out the pre-cut pieces with a pliers. https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/atf-arrests-florida-man-selling-metal-drawing-full-auto-lightning-link/ https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/atf-arrests-florida-man-s...
    - ty6853 2y ago
      It was not the metal pieces. It was one flat piece with a drawing of the pieces on it. And the atf followed (cut with a dremel for 40 minutes) the drawing and it didn't even work as traced, nor did they ever get their own design to do anymore than a hammer follow malfunction that a fully legal AR can do without adding parts. The distinguishing feature between this and a metal business card is the speech on it makes ATF sad face.

strathmeyer 2y ago

OK but what about all the dangerous explosives and the intent to murder innocent people?

giantg2 2y ago
That's the question - why isn't he charged with those more blatant infractions. Maybe he will be, but just hasn't yet.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  That's not uncommon; Luigi Mangione was first charged with having the unpermitted handgun and fake IDs. They want enough to hold and investigate further initially; they'll have taken all the bombs.
ncr100 2y ago
"Soon": Get the process going, ankle monitor strapped and movement of suspect restricted, continue the law enforcement investigation, and make additional charges if violations are identified.

declan_roberts 2y ago

It seems to me like they busted an eccentric collector. Men love this kind of stuff. If TNT was legal to own there would probably be a collector for it.

franktankbank 2y ago
If TNT was legal to own I'd be buying it for my farm.
- lazide 2y ago
  it is legal to own with the right permits, in most areas. The more dense the population, the more heavily restricted in general.
  - franktankbank 2y ago
    There's legal and then there's needing 5 certifications, yearly renewals etc etc in order to avoid destroying your tractor for handling common nuisance on the farm.
    - lazide 2y ago
      i agree, which is why it’s harder to run across now. Notably, it’s about the same amount of paperwork or less than owning guns in most European countries.
    - fasa99 2y ago
      A lot of regulations are a mess. As I understand it, agriculture drones full of fertilizer are beginning to be used throughout, makes sense. And tractors run on diesel since forever. So add diesel to the fertilizer drone now you have a viable powerful weapon... unregulated. I'm sure tens of thousands of farmers have this in their pocket right now, just not their intent. Same with firearms. A pea shooter .22, highly regulated, felony charges everywhere. Now, a 50 caliber airgun? No gunpowder, not a firearm. They even make automatic airguns. Arguably with a large air supply and large ammo clip, and airgun could trounce some automatics, primarily because their barrels won't overheat, they might overcool though because physics of expanding gasses. And yet the humble .22 is the highly regulated one. Some governments and regulators attempt to enumerate every possible conceivable bad thing and outlaw it. Problem is it's not enumerable, there will always be dozens of missed loopholes, which the regulations will steer people into. Parallels the warping and skewing of trying to fix an economy through proclamation versus distributed capitalism.

jt2190 2y ago

As a legal filing, perhaps it’s important to show a picture of the weapon in a neutral way, in order to avoid an argument over the filing itself. (I’m not a lawyer just speculating.)

wl 2y ago
They could have photographed the entire firearm from buffer tube to muzzle device in a neutral way.

rustcleaner 2y ago

I have a dream... that one day we will have a DEA which only regulates purity and accuracy of dose for drugs, and an ATF which only regulates quality and accuracy for firearms. These laws do little to protect the public and they mire enthusiasts with steep and discouraging legal (and thus personal physical) risks. This sort of thinking about the role of government has to stop; it is human civilization's chief sickness.

anon7000 2y ago
“Chief sickness” is pretty strong when there are dozens of other human problems that are considerably worse.
cyanydeez 2y ago
I have a well regulated militia dream. give up guys.
- sneak 2y ago
  The 2A is interpreted both popularly and legally as an individual right: it is the right of the people, not the right of the militia. And, as I’m sure you know, the term “regulated” as written in 2A does not mean the same thing as “regulated” in terms of “government regulation”. In context, it means approximately “well-functioning” or “reliable”.
  - dr_dshiv 2y ago
    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” An individual right to participate in a well regulated militia.
    - Pyxl101 2y ago
      In historical context, the “militia” was everyone, every able bodied person who could participate in common defense. It wasn’t a specific organization like we’d think of today Beyond that, the right is entirely unconnected with service in a militia. That clause at the beginning “A well-regulated Militia …” does not scope or bound what comes next; it offers one explanation for why that right is protected. SCOTUS explained the historical meaning of these words in more detail in District of Columbia vs. Heller, including an in-depth examination of the language as part of its opinion that the right is an individual right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Hell... The SCOTUS decision itself is quite readable. https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep554/usrep554570/usrep554570.pdf https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep... Notably: > Held: > 1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. > (a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.

jvanderbot 2y ago

The suspect informed a confidential source that he had a 10" barrel rifle. The source provided pictures of the rifle to authorities, and had seen it before several times, including going shooting with the suspect. The source provided several other points of data supporting him caching weapons and possessing a short rifle. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917.4.0_1.pdf?utm_source=www.courtwatch.news&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=largest-seizure-of-homemade-explosives-in-fbi-history-made-in-virginia https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.56... You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear, but I'm not sure how they measure barrel length here, but to my eyes it is 13" (unless the last 3 are a suppressor of some sort that isn't counted). https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917/gov.uscourts.vaed.564917.18.2.pdf?utm_source=www.courtwatch.news&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=largest-seizure-of-homemade-explosives-in-fbi-history-made-in-virginia https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.56... This is from the probable cause affidavit, which I guess is used to obtain a warrant?

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
The muzzle device looks to be a flash suppressor, possibly a Noveske KX3 or something similar. Muzzle devices don't count towards barrel length, except in some cases where they're permanently attached. That said, 13" is also a short-barreled rifle length. If this is indeed a rifle, and not an AR pistol.
generalizations 2y ago
> You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear The buffer tube extends off the rear, which has been cropped from the image.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  I understand now, thank you
Tuna-Fish 2y ago
> You might be referring to this image? Which is fairly clear, The issue is that it is entirely legal to have an AR-15 configured as a pistol with a very short barrel, without any tax stamps. That is, not having a stock attached to it. The image provided does not prove that he has a short-barreled rifle, because you cannot see whether it has a stock.

tw04 2y ago

I guess what is it you're trying to imply? Because I find it EXTREMELY unlikely the FBI agents in question don't know what qualifies as an SBR vs. a pistol. Furthermore, even if he does have a naked buffer tube, if the gun was registered as a rifle at the time of purchase, it is a rifle. You cannot "convert" a rifle lower to a pistol if it was defined as a rifle when you bought it. It also seems EXCEEDINGLY unlikely the FBI would make a giant press release before anyone verified if the rifle in question was actually violating any laws. There would be almost nothing to gain, and a LOT of egg on everyone's face if the guy walks because nobody at the FBI knew the difference between an SBR and an AR pistol.

ty6853 2y ago
The feds recently convicted a guy by arguing a piece of metal (basically a metal business card) with a drawing of a machine gun conversion device on, as having sold machine guns. They can literally just lie about the law and confuse the ignorant jury as they did for matt hoover. In a couple years he'll get released on appeal, who cares, they already destroyed his business and relegated his wife and childs mother to begging for money on YouTube.
- tw04 2y ago
  So link to the court case and details? When you create an account just to post in this thread endlessly defending what appears to be at minimum someone who probably shouldn’t own guns in the first place, it’s difficult to believe you’re here for anything other than stirring the pot. Oh, I found it. He was literally selling a machine gun conversion kit and claiming it was a business card. It very clearly wasn’t. And it wasn’t a “drawing” it was the metal pieces to convert an AR to fully automatic by breaking out the pre-cut pieces with a pliers. https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/atf-arrests-florida-man-selling-metal-drawing-full-auto-lightning-link/ https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/atf-arrests-florida-man-s...
  - ty6853 2y ago
    It was not the metal pieces. It was one flat piece with a drawing of the pieces on it. And the atf followed (cut with a dremel for 40 minutes) the drawing and it didn't even work as traced, nor did they ever get their own design to do anymore than a hammer follow malfunction that a fully legal AR can do without adding parts. The distinguishing feature between this and a metal business card is the speech on it makes ATF sad face.