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So let me get this straight... PayloadCMS is a framework, for Next.js which is a framework for the React framework. Yo dawg, i heard you like frameworks!

by attah_ 2y ago

_heimdall 2y ago
"Framework" isn't really the best term for them to actually use to describe Payload. Its basically a tool for NextJS developers to quickly build a custom CMS. I'd think of it more like CMS-in-code than a framework.
cle 2y ago
Yes? I think this is great. IMO our goal should be to enable building higher-level abstractions on lower-level ones.
- jstummbillig 2y ago
  Sure, if the lower level is stable. Nothing in this chain is close to stable.
  - aduffy 2y ago
    React is arguably quite stable?
    - jstummbillig 2y ago
      RSC was marked stable in Mid 2022 and this major change is still in the process of unfolding through the ecosystem, because of course these things take time. And even though react might be the future, I have a hard time understanding a client side framework that currently becomes more of a server side framework being stable.
      - zztop44 2y ago
        By that standard, nothing is stable. New features are added to HTML, the Linux kernel, x86, PHP, etc all the time. In fact, building on top of higher level abstractions can sometime insulate your application from this change too.
mzronek 2y ago
A common misconception. React is a library. These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production-grade-react-frameworks https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production... Next.js is a React framework. If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code first. So you basically code the panel and the data structure yourself.
- vasergen 2y ago
  > React is a library Can a library have compiler?)
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    That's an optional step for JSX cross-compilation. It's a language plugin; nothing really to do with frameworks or libraries.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - tmtwhn 2y ago
      They're going further than jsx transpilation[1] [1] https://react.dev/learn/react-compiler https://react.dev/learn/react-compiler
      - zdragnar 2y ago
        Nothing in that is actually doing what a compiler does above and beyond what babel, swc and esbuild are capable of. What they've added is wrapping your code in more memoization functions, basically. All stuff that doesn't fundamentally transform the code, aside from inserting more `useMemo` and the like. The JSX macro - which is itself already optional but everyone uses it - is just that, a handy macro with implementations available in every common bundler and transpiler out there.
mrexroad 2y ago
s/framework/abstraction/g With that said, yep, I do like robust/stable and purposeful abstractions.

So let me get this straight... PayloadCMS is a framework, for Next.js which is a framework for the React framework. Yo dawg, i heard you like frameworks!

by attah_ 2y ago

So let me get this straight... PayloadCMS is a framework, for Next.js which is a framework for the React framework. Yo dawg, i heard you like frameworks!

_heimdall 2y ago

"Framework" isn't really the best term for them to actually use to describe Payload. Its basically a tool for NextJS developers to quickly build a custom CMS. I'd think of it more like CMS-in-code than a framework.

cle 2y ago

Yes? I think this is great. IMO our goal should be to enable building higher-level abstractions on lower-level ones.

jstummbillig 2y ago
Sure, if the lower level is stable. Nothing in this chain is close to stable.
- aduffy 2y ago
  React is arguably quite stable?
  - jstummbillig 2y ago
    RSC was marked stable in Mid 2022 and this major change is still in the process of unfolding through the ecosystem, because of course these things take time. And even though react might be the future, I have a hard time understanding a client side framework that currently becomes more of a server side framework being stable.
    - zztop44 2y ago
      By that standard, nothing is stable. New features are added to HTML, the Linux kernel, x86, PHP, etc all the time. In fact, building on top of higher level abstractions can sometime insulate your application from this change too.

mzronek 2y ago

A common misconception. React is a library. These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production-grade-react-frameworks https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production... Next.js is a React framework. If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code first. So you basically code the panel and the data structure yourself.

vasergen 2y ago
> React is a library Can a library have compiler?)
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  That's an optional step for JSX cross-compilation. It's a language plugin; nothing really to do with frameworks or libraries.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - tmtwhn 2y ago
    They're going further than jsx transpilation[1] [1] https://react.dev/learn/react-compiler https://react.dev/learn/react-compiler
    - zdragnar 2y ago
      Nothing in that is actually doing what a compiler does above and beyond what babel, swc and esbuild are capable of. What they've added is wrapping your code in more memoization functions, basically. All stuff that doesn't fundamentally transform the code, aside from inserting more `useMemo` and the like. The JSX macro - which is itself already optional but everyone uses it - is just that, a handy macro with implementations available in every common bundler and transpiler out there.

mrexroad 2y ago

s/framework/abstraction/g With that said, yep, I do like robust/stable and purposeful abstractions.