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We need >2000 km ranges in one charge of electric vehicles for widespread adoption.
by diminish 2y ago
We need >2000 km ranges in one charge of electric vehicles for widespread adoption.
- ben_w 2y agoYou commute from Vancouver, Canada to Tijuana, Mexico?
- manmal 2y agoI think a cheap car with 1k km range would sell pretty well already. For many people that’s a once a month charge.
- sho 2y agoI think James May made a great point when he said it's not about range, it's about quick and ubiquitous charging. I wouldn't mind if my vehicle could only travel 300km... if I could have the confidence I'd be able to stop and top it up in just a couple of minutes no matter where I was. Faster charging would really make all the difference.
- hackernewds 2y agoNot really. if your choice is a better ICE car at the same price point, why get an EV that has to stop intermittently and has failure modes like broken chargers. It has to be as good. And better
- amatecha 2y agoYeah, the amount of issues I hear about with chargers not working, and everything relying on using some app? I'm not installing a smartphone app to charge a battery! So far I'm not feeling too tempted about electric vehicles. I'll be happy to find something that avoids these shortcomings though!
- exitb 2y agoIt's not a technology issue, it's a service issue. If ICE cars were invented today, you'd need an app at a gas station too.
- amatecha 2y agoNo doubt. I hope there's more pushback against that crap.
- Hamuko 2y agoEU regulations require charging stations to accept card payments by 2027.
- amatecha 2y agoNice, that's really good to hear! Hopefully other jurisdictions follow the lead there!
- aidos 2y agoGood and better by which metrics? Different people have different requirements.
- speedgoose 2y agoThankfully they are often better. 95% of new car sales are EVs in my area. It took a few years to get there, people don't necessarily know immediately what they like best. https://elbilstatistikk.no/ https://elbilstatistikk.no/
- closewith 2y agoNorway is an absolute outlier, driven exclusively by tax incentives. In the rest of the EEA, EVs sales are plummeting. https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-18-3-in-august-2024-bev-market-share-down-by-almost-one-third/ https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations...
- speedgoose 2y agoDo you have a source about “exclusively“?
- itsoktocry 2y agoHave you looked at the taxes versus incentives for EVs vs ICEs in Norway? If you need a new car and one is triple the cost (because the other is exempt from fees) what are you going to buy? But yeah, it's for the environment, surely. Reverse the policy and see what happens.
- speedgoose 2y agoI agree it's a strong incentive, but I'm not sure it's the only one. One example was during the cold wave last winter. ICE owners struggled quite a bit more than EV owners. You also have the problem that ICE vehicles are quite slow and laggy, unless you spend a lot of money on performance ICE vehicles but then they usually tend to be loud and uncomfortable.
- davedx 2y agoEh I much prefer my Model 3 to my wife’s Mach-E because of the longer range it has. Even with fast chargers on the motorway it’s inconvenient to have to stop regularly to charge and delays your journey. 450km is nice for the Netherlands; if I had 500-600km range then I’d only ever need to charge at home which is way better.
- carlmr 2y agoFor me 500km range is also the sweet spot. But it needs to be real range, like including heating in winter or AC in summer. And while I only usually drive 300-350km in one piece, I don't want to buy a car where I have to fear that a drive of this sort ends up waiting to be towed because of battery degradation (500km will realistically be 450km in a few years), or because I missed the last charging station or got stuck in traffic with heating running, and the remaining few km dwindle in front of me. It's rational to fear your phone being under 20% when you still need it. It's just as rational to have 20% buffer when charging your car battery.
- Ekaros 2y agoReal range at motorway speed that is 120km/h in summer. My current cheap ICE has atleast 450 km total including 350 km or so at 120. Which to me would be sweet spot. I could get to nearest big cities and airports there and then back. And only have to think refuelling or charging in couple of days after. In the end that is only two about 2 hour drive stints. And really spending time on those stints instead of getting to destination or being home later...
- vasco 2y ago> I wouldn't mind if my vehicle could only travel 300km... if I could have the confidence I'd be able to stop and top it up in just a couple of minutes no matter where I was. This is called a motorcycle! Mine can do 260-280km on a gas tank, still does huge trips. Once batteries work like gas, you're absolutely right.
- closewith 2y agoThe problem with fast charging, at least here in Ireland, is that it's significantly more expensive than petrol. Our family moved back from an EV to PHEV because we get the benefit of 90+% of our journeys being for free (from solar charging at home), but that last 10% is petrol that is always available. There's also nothing more miserable than being stuck in a queue for a fast charger with a colicy baby. I've offered people cash to get to the front of the queue, although no-one's ever accepted money when they understand why.
- ggm 2y agoWhat % of cars have this range? Not your diesel f150, the real cars real people with real everyday lives drive My Hyundai i30 has a 600km range, max.
- Hamuko 2y agoRange is kinda irrelevant if you live in a place where filling stations are ubiquitous. Going 850 km in my old petrol-powered car required just one five-minute stop.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- vardump 2y ago850 km without breaks?
- Hamuko 2y agoPee break while filling up the car but not beyond that. I had some food on me so I could wait to have a proper meal until I got to my destination.
- defrost 2y agoThat's Perth to Carnarvon up the coast road in Western Australia, roughly 8 hours @ 110 km/hr speed limit and one leg of a longer trip from (say) Perth to Broome.
- closewith 2y agoA diesel F150 will easily do 1,000km+ on a full tank.
- ggm 2y agoYes. That's my point. They can, lots of diesel tractors can. Family cars owned by most people do not have 2000km range tanks and it's ludicrous to define a barrier to acceptance that far north of lived experience for most people. It's called range anxiety for a reason. People are anxious about it. But, it's disconnected from what a trip meter tells us about average commute, daily drive. Cue hoardes of "but i live rural and drive 30,000km a day" responses. Because people don't understand averages and what on average most people do. I know I drive below average, i checked. I do about 1/3 to 1/4 of an average Australian driver. I also know these 200km daily commute drivers are a wild outlier, not the norm. The people whining about e-vehicle range snipe social media to headline their justified concerns to their outlier behaviour and distort the conversation.
- beAbU 2y agoNot everywhere is massive and spread out like US. In Ireland I can basically get anywhere in the whole country with one charge and maybe a top-up along the way. I'm more than happy with my 400km range.
- realusername 2y agoPeople use their car way less than they think. The median work distance in France is 12km in the countryside and 6km in the cities. 25% of the workers travel less than 4km even in the countryside. Source: https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/7622203 https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/7622203 The current range is way above most needs already and I'm not sure cars (electric or not) is even the answer with such a low usage.
- Hamuko 2y agoIf people bought cars for their median usage, they'd buy cars with like 1.2 seats and that top out at 70 km/h.
- realusername 2y agoThat would not be a bad option to get smaller compared to the small tanks that people are driving right now. Cars are one of the most inefficient form of transport anyways and driving almost never makes sense on large distances. Instead of a large flow of people driving 600km to go to the same place with a single seat used each only once per year, what you would want is public transport instead on those routes, that would be more rational.
- Gibbon1 2y agoI remember in Taiwan they had roads and overpasses for scooters. You could rework cities to support small low speed vehicles. The US could build more mass transit. As the work from home vs return to the office struggle shows bashing business to relocate closer to where people work has some merit.
- 2y ago
- 9dev 2y agoPeople really need to get away from that notion electric vehicles need to be as similar as possible to ICE vehicles. Most people living in cities don’t ever require that range, because 99% of their rides will be constrained to less than 50 kilometers. And even on the countryside, few people need to drive such long stretches on a single charge. Keeping up this stoic desire to not having to change your habits around driving at all is dismissing a lot of the benefits small, lightweight electric cars could get us, if they didn’t need to carry tons of battery around—that isn’t even necessary most of the time.
- AmericanChopper 2y agoIf you want people to choose one thing, then you want it to be better than or at least as good as the alternatives. The idea that EVs need to be comparable to ICE vehicles isn’t just some silly argument, it’s literally the choice that consumers are faced with if they want to buy a car. Even if longer range travel is only 1% of what consumers will do with their car (which I’m sure is a number you just made up), why would you get a product that only meets 99% of your needs, when you can get the competing product that meets 100% of them?
- amatecha 2y agoYeah, and so far EVs almost universally have a couple "no-go" bullet points for me: touch screen controls, and always-online. Either of those just instantly excludes such a vehicle from my consideration. Uhh, unsurprisingly, I have no clue what I'm going to do when my current vehicle becomes unusable! Replace it with another old one, I guess?! >_<
- 9dev 2y agoIt’s definitely a hyperbole number I made up. The point is that the technology isn’t equal or better, but different. It has other constraints and capabilities, but pretending an engine is an engine as long as the hood is closed gets us in the current situation where car builders struggle to recreate ICEs, but electric, consumers are never satisfied because they have wrong expectations, and regulators don’t ensure the charging infrastructure that would actually required exists. With an electric vehicle, you can get an extremely low-maintenance, easy to drive, fast accelerating, ecologically efficient car. That has its on merits. On the other hand, it has a lower range than an ICE engine, and is less reliable in cold weather.
- davedx 2y ago[flagged]
- wg0 2y agoOr 10x longer battery life. Or 100x faster charging time. Something has to change among those factors for wider adoption.
- kyriakos 2y agoAs an owner of an EV it took me the first 6 months to adapt. The concept is different and you need to adapt your mentality to it. When you use an ICE car you fill up once it goes under 20% When you drive an EV you leave home and it's always full and costs nothing (PV takes care of that). Most places I visit have chargers which means you charge while you do what you have to do be it restaurant, shopping mall, supermarket etc. Things only happen differently if you plan long journey and living on an island that's no issue.
- amatecha 2y agoHow does that work when all cars are electric? Fighting with some guy at the grocery store for a charging port? I'm not trying to be inflammatory asking that, I genuinely wonder what the approach is supposed to be if suddenly everyone went and bought an electric car. I always hear that "you can charge all over the place" but I'll see like, two charging stalls in a giant parking lot. I wonder what the future looks like in that regard in, say, 5-10 years.
- defrost 2y ago> I wonder what the future looks like in that regard in, say, 5-10 years. Likely, for one, a great deal more aluminium HVAC|DC cable laid in car parks to support charging; copper's kind of expensive and in short supply but is also a contender. Might be smart to invest in any IPO's launched to raise capital for new proven economically feasible smelters processing infrastructure. The hay to feed all those horses doesn't appear by magic, livery's the future m'lad.
- kyriakos 2y agoDemand and supply I guess. If all cars were EV all parking spots would have a port. Simplistic I know but that's how markets work. Would gas/petrol stations exist every few km if there weren't cars that needed them?
- aidos 2y agoI think really, like your parent said, people charge them at home. In the UK, energy providers have plans where they schedule charging overnight so it costs next to nothing. It costs about £10 / month for a family vehicle that gets daily use.
- dudeism_est_03 2y agoI personally doubt very much that this range is required. Charging infrastructure is definitely a lot more important. I still drive a diesel because I drive across Europe a lot. My usual journey is 700km, which I can do with ca. 40L. The total my 65L tank would give me is about 1000km depending on the conditions. Anyway, those 700km take about 8 hours with a couple of short stops. If I were to drive 2000km I would definitely need a long break in which I could easily charge. I am not really aware of any ICE having a greater range than that, never mind 2000Km. I’ve once driven the Plugin-Hybrid Kuga and it got very close to the diesel range. It almost made the entire 700km journey with the 40l petrol tank. But these long journeys only happen a few times a year and I think it would be silly to drive a huge battery around for the off chance I am driving across an entire continent.
- woggy 2y agoI don't think my Mazda3 has anything near that range