7 ms·

Curious what folks in marketing think here. The intuition makes sense, but the marketing teams see the leading indicators. I'd expect there to be a rise in cor

by atak1 2y ago

Curious what folks in marketing think here. The intuition makes sense, but the marketing teams see the leading indicators. I'd expect there to be a rise in corp budget for partnerships, influencer marketing, etc.

inetknght 2y ago
> Curious what folks in marketing think here. Marketing folks are the reason we're here. What makes you think their thoughts here will be useful?
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I think they understand the situation and insights better than anyone. The current set of incentives and technology are why we are here. If there is a good alternative, they are also the ones likely to know it.
  - RHSeeger 2y ago
    With the caveat that I _don't_ have any particular insights into the solving the problem... > I think they understand the situation and insights better than anyone. > The current set of incentives and technology are why we are here. > If there is a good alternative, they are also the ones likely to know it. This reads a lot like "lets get the drunk drivers together to figure out how to make the roads safer". I mean, sure, they may have more knowledge about the causes.. but they've also made it very clear they don't care about making things better.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Sure, they may or may not care. However, if you care, talking to them would be the best place to start. There is a big difference between seeking the knowledge where it exists, and expecting the subject matter experts to solve the problem. This is doubly true when it is something you perceive as a problem and not them.
    - ofcourseyoudo 2y ago
      I think it's a big assumption assume an entire industry of professionals doesn't want to make things better. It's obvious they have multiple interests pulling at them from different sides. I'm sure quite often they have to make a compromised decision because the CEO wants something extremely stupid or invasive.
      - mrguyorama 2y ago
        >an entire industry of professionals doesn't want to make things better Their industry is marketing. That's their profession. If they want to make it better, they should quit. They do not quit, ergo, they do not want to make it better.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think that is a pretty simple caricature of how people operate. People have multiple competing desires and various incentives. Various definitions of better, which may not align with your own. Given a offer of same pay and the ability to use the same skills, I think people would choose to to make things better instead of worse. That means they would like to make it better. You are making a different absolutists claim, that any desire to make things better doesn't count if someone wont sacrifice everything for it. This is by its nature a comparison, and not a statement about one things. Keep in mind that this all in question of if people in marketing might have knowledge or insight about changes in advertising.
        johnthewise 2y ago
        This is a very hostile, almost childish view. Online ads make it possible for many services to be essentially free or even possible in the first place.. I and many others gladly accept being shown ads in return for something we desire. Personalization is great too, It might be as well relevant to me. There is nothing inherently bad in this situation. I've been watching youtube long before I had any money to spare on it.
        immibis 2y ago
        This is a very hostile, almost childish view. In a great many cases (but not all) the free service with online ads outcompetes one that is provided without any income whatsoever, with someone's voluntary spare resources. By displacing the better service, the one with ads makes the world worse, and if it couldn't exist, the world would be better.
  - darby_nine 2y ago
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
renewiltord 2y ago
Yeah, there are a few startups in this space as things have started changing. e.g. https://www.fermatcommerce.com/ https://www.fermatcommerce.com/
- altdataseller 2y ago
  I truly dont get why this is an innovative change. Shouldnt marketers have been doing this since Day 1?
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    The other thing was easier to do and had much greater scale. You could get very accurate targeting and attribution in the old world.
jfil 2y ago
I've been in the Marketing Technology space for over 14 years (SEO, Affiliate, Programmatic ad networks, Analytics, Email). Here are my thoughts: * I agree with Rand that this change is happening and it heralds a big vhange. It is also worth reading his older analysis of just how few Google searches turn into a click. * Marketers, in general, are not aware of these changes and are not planning ahead. We are still running the old playbooks of "pay for google ad, make a gated whitepaper with a form". The change is going to blindside many marketers. * Email has been the trusty channel that just kept giving. But I think it's becoming oversaturated. * Allocating budge to partnerships and influencer marketing: yes! The smart marketers are already doing this. Also: community building. Anything that creates an environment of trust & where people interact with experts. Communities will be the immediate place of refuge from all the GPT-generated noise that's killing search engines. * Another traditionally smart move is to reallocate those Marketing dollars to Sales/cold outreach - but remember how I said that email is becoming over saturated? It's also impacting salespeople. When was the last time you replied to a cold email? Picked up the phone when an unknown number rang? It's a time of massive change for Marketing, and things haven't shaken out yet. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts about what Marketing could look like in the future. I'm also here to answer any other questions, either in this thread or through email (in profile)
- mronetwo 2y ago
  > Allocating budge to partnerships and influencer marketing: yes! The smart marketers are already doing this. Also: community building. Anything that creates an environment of trust & where people interact with experts. Ehhh... why does it always sound so dishonest when marketing people talk about these things? "community" is just a tool for you. "environment of trust" is just leverage to you. Alex Jones is an "expert" in the world of marketing, since he's selling some crap supplements. You're just finding ways to pry open our brains, and everything is on the table. This post reads like an ad. Maybe it is? Maybe that's how you talk on daily basis?

by atak1 2y ago

inetknght 2y ago

> Curious what folks in marketing think here. Marketing folks are the reason we're here. What makes you think their thoughts here will be useful?

s1artibartfast 2y ago
I think they understand the situation and insights better than anyone. The current set of incentives and technology are why we are here. If there is a good alternative, they are also the ones likely to know it.
- RHSeeger 2y ago
  With the caveat that I _don't_ have any particular insights into the solving the problem... > I think they understand the situation and insights better than anyone. > The current set of incentives and technology are why we are here. > If there is a good alternative, they are also the ones likely to know it. This reads a lot like "lets get the drunk drivers together to figure out how to make the roads safer". I mean, sure, they may have more knowledge about the causes.. but they've also made it very clear they don't care about making things better.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Sure, they may or may not care. However, if you care, talking to them would be the best place to start. There is a big difference between seeking the knowledge where it exists, and expecting the subject matter experts to solve the problem. This is doubly true when it is something you perceive as a problem and not them.
  - ofcourseyoudo 2y ago
    I think it's a big assumption assume an entire industry of professionals doesn't want to make things better. It's obvious they have multiple interests pulling at them from different sides. I'm sure quite often they have to make a compromised decision because the CEO wants something extremely stupid or invasive.
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      >an entire industry of professionals doesn't want to make things better Their industry is marketing. That's their profession. If they want to make it better, they should quit. They do not quit, ergo, they do not want to make it better.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think that is a pretty simple caricature of how people operate. People have multiple competing desires and various incentives. Various definitions of better, which may not align with your own. Given a offer of same pay and the ability to use the same skills, I think people would choose to to make things better instead of worse. That means they would like to make it better. You are making a different absolutists claim, that any desire to make things better doesn't count if someone wont sacrifice everything for it. This is by its nature a comparison, and not a statement about one things. Keep in mind that this all in question of if people in marketing might have knowledge or insight about changes in advertising.
      - johnthewise 2y ago
        This is a very hostile, almost childish view. Online ads make it possible for many services to be essentially free or even possible in the first place.. I and many others gladly accept being shown ads in return for something we desire. Personalization is great too, It might be as well relevant to me. There is nothing inherently bad in this situation. I've been watching youtube long before I had any money to spare on it.
        immibis 2y ago
        This is a very hostile, almost childish view. In a great many cases (but not all) the free service with online ads outcompetes one that is provided without any income whatsoever, with someone's voluntary spare resources. By displacing the better service, the one with ads makes the world worse, and if it couldn't exist, the world would be better.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

renewiltord 2y ago

Yeah, there are a few startups in this space as things have started changing. e.g. https://www.fermatcommerce.com/ https://www.fermatcommerce.com/

altdataseller 2y ago
I truly dont get why this is an innovative change. Shouldnt marketers have been doing this since Day 1?
- renewiltord 2y ago
  The other thing was easier to do and had much greater scale. You could get very accurate targeting and attribution in the old world.

jfil 2y ago

I've been in the Marketing Technology space for over 14 years (SEO, Affiliate, Programmatic ad networks, Analytics, Email). Here are my thoughts: * I agree with Rand that this change is happening and it heralds a big vhange. It is also worth reading his older analysis of just how few Google searches turn into a click. * Marketers, in general, are not aware of these changes and are not planning ahead. We are still running the old playbooks of "pay for google ad, make a gated whitepaper with a form". The change is going to blindside many marketers. * Email has been the trusty channel that just kept giving. But I think it's becoming oversaturated. * Allocating budge to partnerships and influencer marketing: yes! The smart marketers are already doing this. Also: community building. Anything that creates an environment of trust & where people interact with experts. Communities will be the immediate place of refuge from all the GPT-generated noise that's killing search engines. * Another traditionally smart move is to reallocate those Marketing dollars to Sales/cold outreach - but remember how I said that email is becoming over saturated? It's also impacting salespeople. When was the last time you replied to a cold email? Picked up the phone when an unknown number rang? It's a time of massive change for Marketing, and things haven't shaken out yet. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts about what Marketing could look like in the future. I'm also here to answer any other questions, either in this thread or through email (in profile)

mronetwo 2y ago
> Allocating budge to partnerships and influencer marketing: yes! The smart marketers are already doing this. Also: community building. Anything that creates an environment of trust & where people interact with experts. Ehhh... why does it always sound so dishonest when marketing people talk about these things? "community" is just a tool for you. "environment of trust" is just leverage to you. Alex Jones is an "expert" in the world of marketing, since he's selling some crap supplements. You're just finding ways to pry open our brains, and everything is on the table. This post reads like an ad. Maybe it is? Maybe that's how you talk on daily basis?