6 ms·

As a Helldivers 2 PC player who also owns a PS5, this new requirement doesn't bother me personally. However, adding a requirement (it was previously optional)

As a Helldivers 2 PC player who also owns a PS5, this new requirement doesn't bother me personally. However, adding a requirement (it was previously optional) is boneheaded, maybe illegal. It must be terrible to be Arrowhead; they have to sit by and watch while their player base implodes because of a Sony edict.

terramex 2y ago
Requirement was always there, just not enforced due to „technical issues”. https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.ste... > „Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network” However, making it purchasable from countries not supported by PSN accounts was big error on their part.
- Caligatio 2y ago
  https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-... Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC? No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    Irrelevant - the product page says otherwise and the game itself was explicit in telling you that a PSN account is required on launch.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      How is it irrelevant if it's coming from Sony itself?
      - gambiting 2y ago
        Because the consumer is presented with correct info on the product page by the party actually selling the product - Valve. It's the same when buying a car - the information presented to you at the dealership takes precedence over whatever the manufacturer's website says, because the legal assumption is that you are basing your purchase decision on what is in front of you when buying the car by the party actually selling it.
        Caligatio 2y ago
        You can literally buy it from Sony and they email you a game key. They're changing all their documentation to match their new announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_trying_to_cover_their_mistakes_in_the_wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_tr...
        cma 2y ago
        If you offer a nationwide fast food discount in an ad you have to disclaim 'at participating stores only' in order to not make it binding everywhere.
        shkkmo 2y ago
        > you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. This is an official page where Sony themselves sell the game via providing voucher codes for steam. You can buy the game here without ever visiting the steam page. This clearly qualifies as false advertising.
- zamalek 2y ago
  Unenforced rules are a murky area. It's not as clear-cut as you suggest. Another issue that has been raised is that Sony is notoriously incompetent with customer data.
  - SXX 2y ago
    Sony is one of the most customer-hostile companies in existence. Betting on them not banning you one day for breaking ToS is not an option.
- bun_terminator 2y ago
  true in legal terms. But it was hidden and the reason given for the change was a blatant lie. They were deceiving users until they could no longer refund. Something like that is often called a scam or fraud
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>But it was hidden When you start the game, you literally get a full screen banner that says a PSN account is required to play and you must sign in. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. How can anyone call it "hidden" is literally beyond me. It's not hidden on page 527 of the EULA or something - it's literally said explicitly on a full screen banner shown to every player who has started the game. Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      Two things: 1) This dialog only showed one time, the very first time you launched the game 2) This dialog was skippable If you skipped it one single time, it let you play for months now without ever seeing it again. If they wanted to make it clear it was mandatory eventually then the wording and behavior should have made this clear every single time you open the game Allowing to skip means it's not mandatory, regardless of whatever language is written down on the UI, the TOS, on the steam page, or whatever else If this was enforced upfront, people would have had an opportunity to refund immediately. If it was communicated clearly that the Skip was temporary, people could have made an informed choice about playing
      - hiccuphippo 2y ago
        Yes, how is it a technical difficulty to remove a skip button? Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account, or don't want to get one, would have been able to return it ASAP. I guess it was easier to inflate their numbers.
        bluefirebrand 2y ago
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  IANAL, but couldn't non enforcement create an implied-in-fact contract?
  - leereeves 2y ago
    I'm not a lawyer either, but Wikipedia says that requires "a meeting of minds". It seems pretty clear that Sony always intended to require a PSN account (although that wasn't always communicated well, it was stated on the Steam store page, at the end of news articles, and in the game itself) so there was no meeting of minds. Just confusion.
re-thc 2y ago
> they have to sit by and watch while their player base implodes because of a Sony edict. Happens all the time. Sony is the publisher. A lot of publishers "ruin" games.
junon 2y ago
Arrowhead has sold out before with e.g. Magicka, so I'm sure they're somewhat used to it by now. You're not a developer that signs with a publisher like Sony without knowing the risks.
- Hugsun 2y ago
  What happened with magicka?
  - klik99 2y ago
    It’s still playable but overrun with the worst kind of paradox dlc. Arrowhead are great devs but their biz side comes off as explorative. I was happy to see HD2 actually does a good job at post game monitization because they did such a sloppy job with mahicka
CaptainOfCoit 2y ago
> It must be terrible to be Arrowhead; they have to sit by and watch while their player base implodes because of a Sony edict. Or, you know, don't make agreements that will upset your player base? I'm sure they never were forced to do anything Sony says, except if they entered into a business agreement with Sony, which again, is their own choice, and the developer knew about these requirements from the beginning, but made the requirement optional as they didn't get the technical details right at launch to require PSN. It must great to be Arrowhead, where players seemingly blame the publisher like the developer has no responsibility over their own game.
- boesboes 2y ago
  This. Everyone defending AH as if they are the victim here. Smh
- shkkmo 2y ago
  Not only this, but I am not convinced that Arrowhead are entirely on the up and up about blaming Sony. I've seen too many places where the Sony messaging is pretty clear about accounts not being required. It seems very strange that Sony decides to make the policy change with this game without updating the policy.
gambiting 2y ago
It was clearly advertised on the steam page, but also on launch you had a full screen banner that said you MUST sign in with a PSN account to play this game. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. So no, nothing was "added".
- shkkmo 2y ago
  Sony was/is selling steam codes on their own store with a QA that clearly explains that PSN accounts are not required for PS games on PC > https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-...

terramex 2y ago

Requirement was always there, just not enforced due to „technical issues”. https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/ https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.ste... > „Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network” However, making it purchasable from countries not supported by PSN accounts was big error on their part.

Caligatio 2y ago
https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-... Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC? No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts.
- gambiting 2y ago
  Irrelevant - the product page says otherwise and the game itself was explicit in telling you that a PSN account is required on launch.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    How is it irrelevant if it's coming from Sony itself?
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Because the consumer is presented with correct info on the product page by the party actually selling the product - Valve. It's the same when buying a car - the information presented to you at the dealership takes precedence over whatever the manufacturer's website says, because the legal assumption is that you are basing your purchase decision on what is in front of you when buying the car by the party actually selling it.
      - Caligatio 2y ago
        You can literally buy it from Sony and they email you a game key. They're changing all their documentation to match their new announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_trying_to_cover_their_mistakes_in_the_wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjlnn1/sony_tr...
      - cma 2y ago
        If you offer a nationwide fast food discount in an ad you have to disclaim 'at participating stores only' in order to not make it binding everywhere.
      - shkkmo 2y ago
        > you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. This is an official page where Sony themselves sell the game via providing voucher codes for steam. You can buy the game here without ever visiting the steam page. This clearly qualifies as false advertising.
zamalek 2y ago
Unenforced rules are a murky area. It's not as clear-cut as you suggest. Another issue that has been raised is that Sony is notoriously incompetent with customer data.
- SXX 2y ago
  Sony is one of the most customer-hostile companies in existence. Betting on them not banning you one day for breaking ToS is not an option.
bun_terminator 2y ago
true in legal terms. But it was hidden and the reason given for the change was a blatant lie. They were deceiving users until they could no longer refund. Something like that is often called a scam or fraud
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>But it was hidden When you start the game, you literally get a full screen banner that says a PSN account is required to play and you must sign in. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. How can anyone call it "hidden" is literally beyond me. It's not hidden on page 527 of the EULA or something - it's literally said explicitly on a full screen banner shown to every player who has started the game. Not to mention it's mentioned on the Steam store page.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    Two things: 1) This dialog only showed one time, the very first time you launched the game 2) This dialog was skippable If you skipped it one single time, it let you play for months now without ever seeing it again. If they wanted to make it clear it was mandatory eventually then the wording and behavior should have made this clear every single time you open the game Allowing to skip means it's not mandatory, regardless of whatever language is written down on the UI, the TOS, on the steam page, or whatever else If this was enforced upfront, people would have had an opportunity to refund immediately. If it was communicated clearly that the Skip was temporary, people could have made an informed choice about playing
    - hiccuphippo 2y ago
      Yes, how is it a technical difficulty to remove a skip button? Players from countries that can't legally acquire a PSN account, or don't want to get one, would have been able to return it ASAP. I guess it was easier to inflate their numbers.
      - bluefirebrand 2y ago
RobotToaster 2y ago
IANAL, but couldn't non enforcement create an implied-in-fact contract?
- leereeves 2y ago
  I'm not a lawyer either, but Wikipedia says that requires "a meeting of minds". It seems pretty clear that Sony always intended to require a PSN account (although that wasn't always communicated well, it was stated on the Steam store page, at the end of news articles, and in the game itself) so there was no meeting of minds. Just confusion.

re-thc 2y ago

> they have to sit by and watch while their player base implodes because of a Sony edict. Happens all the time. Sony is the publisher. A lot of publishers "ruin" games.

junon 2y ago

Arrowhead has sold out before with e.g. Magicka, so I'm sure they're somewhat used to it by now. You're not a developer that signs with a publisher like Sony without knowing the risks.

Hugsun 2y ago
What happened with magicka?
- klik99 2y ago
  It’s still playable but overrun with the worst kind of paradox dlc. Arrowhead are great devs but their biz side comes off as explorative. I was happy to see HD2 actually does a good job at post game monitization because they did such a sloppy job with mahicka

CaptainOfCoit 2y ago

> It must be terrible to be Arrowhead; they have to sit by and watch while their player base implodes because of a Sony edict. Or, you know, don't make agreements that will upset your player base? I'm sure they never were forced to do anything Sony says, except if they entered into a business agreement with Sony, which again, is their own choice, and the developer knew about these requirements from the beginning, but made the requirement optional as they didn't get the technical details right at launch to require PSN. It must great to be Arrowhead, where players seemingly blame the publisher like the developer has no responsibility over their own game.

boesboes 2y ago
This. Everyone defending AH as if they are the victim here. Smh
shkkmo 2y ago
Not only this, but I am not convinced that Arrowhead are entirely on the up and up about blaming Sony. I've seen too many places where the Sony messaging is pretty clear about accounts not being required. It seems very strange that Sony decides to make the policy change with this game without updating the policy.

gambiting 2y ago

It was clearly advertised on the steam page, but also on launch you had a full screen banner that said you MUST sign in with a PSN account to play this game. It's just that until now you could click cancel and the game would still launch. So no, nothing was "added".

shkkmo 2y ago
Sony was/is selling steam codes on their own store with a QA that clearly explains that PSN accounts are not required for PS games on PC > https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-...